Couple of questions

Hazelelponi · Sep 5, 2018

confusedmanxx said:
John 14:30
30 I will not say much more to you, for the prince of this world is coming. He has no hold over me,

If God gives you authority over your home, does it stop God's authority over you?

The one giving authority is the one in charge..that's the one with real authority and He can take it away just as easily as He gave it.

I have no idea why the thought bothers you. This is Satan's punishment... he was cast out of heaven.

confusedmanxx · Sep 5, 2018

Hazelelponi said:
If God gives you authority over your home, does it stop God's authority over you?

The one giving authority is the one in charge..that's the one with real authority and He can take it away just as easily as He gave it.

I have no idea why the thought bothers you. This is Satan's punishment... he was cast out of heaven.

That is his punishment to rule earth? and now God has to die to take away his authority?
and what differences does this make? Satan already has authority over man once again on earth, if we assume God death on the Cross would remove his authority, then he failed because satan still rules earth.

Serving Zion · Sep 5, 2018

confusedmanxx said:
So what the point of Jesus becoming God in flesh if we can't worship him since his human nature will force him to worship him self?

His human nature constrains Him to worship The Father through prayer and reverence, whereas to serve his brethren just as we serve each other (consider Luke 22:27). To answer your question "what is the point of Jesus becoming God in flesh", there's a few different verses that come to mind. Consider first of all John 10:10 - we do not wrestle against flesh and blood - there is something spiritual that we consider an adversary. Jesus said He had come to bind the strong man (Matthew 12:29), which we see reflected in the parable of the nobleman (Luke 19:12, Ephesians 4:8), and when He returns according to Luke 19:15, then we will see paradise restored (Revelation 22:3-4).

royal priest · Sep 5, 2018

confusedmanxx said:
That doesn't answer any thing why would God death on the Holy Cross recover the rulership to Humans?
Why couldn't the father just restore authority by his power?

When Jesus returns, He finally will remove mankind's bondage to Satan, thus enabling them to rule the world as God has originally intended.

And it doesn't answer, If Jesus is human and have dual nature doesn't that mean he will worship Him self again when he comes back [due to his human nature forcing him to worship]?

Click to expand...

Jesus knows His worth. He will have countless redeemed sinners worshiping Him for eternity.

confusedmanxx · Sep 5, 2018

Serving Zion said:
His human nature constrains Him to worship The Father through prayer and reverence, whereas to serve his brethren just as we serve each other (consider Luke 22:27). To answer your question "what is the point of Jesus becoming God in flesh", there's a few different verses that come to mind. Consider first of all John 10:10 - we do not wrestle against flesh and blood - there is something spiritual that we consider an adversary. Jesus said He had come to bind the strong man (Matthew 12:29), which we see reflected in the parable of the nobleman (Luke 19:12, Ephesians 4:8), and when He returns according to Luke 19:15, then we will see paradise restored (Revelation 22:3-4).

That still answers no question,
Why would I worship Jesus if he worshiped the father.
Why wouldn't I just worship God while standing next to Jesus?

Childofgodharrison · Sep 5, 2018

confusedmanxx said:
1- lets suppose he he has dual nature. when jesus comes back will he have dual nature and worship the father too?

2- Satan told Jesus that God [Whome is also jesus according to christian belief] gave him the authority over all nations
Luke 4:6-7 (NIV)
6 And he said to him, “I will give you all their authority and splendor; it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to. 7 If you worship me, it will all be yours.”

Why did Jesus give the authority to satan and then black mail jesus to worship him in exchange of giving jesus the authority over all nations?

Satan was trying to cause Jesus to fall just as Adam did. The difference was and still is (the word) who was with God in the beginning and who is God. So he was not about to lose his deity to worship something that he created in the first place.

confusedmanxx · Sep 5, 2018

royal priest said:
When Jesus returns, He finally will remove mankind's bondage to Satan, thus enabling them to rule the world as God has originally intended.
Jesus knows His worth. He will have countless redeemed sinners worshiping Him for eternity.

But How come no one worshiped Jesus when he was alive
But he spent the night praying to Him self

confusedmanxx · Sep 5, 2018

Childofgodharrison said:
Satan was trying to cause Jesus to fall just as Adam did. The difference was and still is (the word) who was with God in the beginning and who is God. So he was not about to lose his deity to worship something that he created in the first place.

Yeah that brings a point. Doesn't satan know that Jesus is God , wouldn't that be pointless to tempt some one to worship his creation?

Serving Zion · Sep 5, 2018

confusedmanxx said:
That doesn't answer any thing why would God death on the Holy Cross recover the rulership to Humans?
Why couldn't the father just restore authority by his power?

We humans need to somehow have the confidence to rely upon His power (eg Romans 8:1, Matthew 7:1-2). This is why it says "when He went up on high, he took the captivity captive and gave gifts to His people". Jesus came to show us that God's love for us is so great, that there is no need to hide from Him, but only receive Him and be healed. Even crucifixion could not destroy that love

confusedmanxx said:
That still answers no question,
Why would I worship Jesus if he worshiped the father.
Why wouldn't I just worship God while standing next to Jesus?

That's what you should be doing! .. What gave you the idea that Jesus would want you to worship Him?

confusedmanxx · Sep 5, 2018

Serving Zion said:
We humans need to somehow have the confidence to rely upon His power (eg Romans 8:1, Matthew 7:1-2). This is why it says "when He went up on high, he took the captivity captive and gave gifts to His people". Jesus came to show us that God's love for us is so great, that there is no need to hide from Him, but only receive Him and be healed. Even crucifixion could not destroy that love

That's what you should be doing! .. What gave you the idea that Jesus would want you to worship Him?

Thats news to me. A lot of Christians say I should be worshiping Jesus.

Childofgodharrison · Sep 5, 2018

confusedmanxx said:
Yeah that brings a point. Doesn't satan know that Jesus is God , wouldn't that be pointless to tempt some one to worship his creation?[/QUOTE

Yes it would be pointless, Jesus is God but he came to the earth born of Adams seed. Satan succeeded in causing Adam and Eve to fall, because they had a soul which is enmity with God. Jesus also had a soul. So satan gave it a shot and fail.

royal priest · Sep 5, 2018

confusedmanxx said:
But How come no one worshiped Jesus when he was alive
But he spent the night praying to Him self

On coming to the house, they saw the child with his mother Mary, and they bowed down and worshiped him. Then they opened their treasures and presented him with gifts of gold and of incense and of myrrh. (Matthew 2:10-12)

And behold, a leper came to Him, and bowed down to Him, saying, “Lord, if You are willing, You can make me clean.” (Matthew 8:2)

Jesus heard that they had thrown him out, and when he found him, he said, “Do you believe in the Son of Man?” “Who is he, sir?” the man asked. “Tell me so that I may believe in him.” Jesus said, “You have now seen him; in fact, he is the one speaking with you.” Then the man said, “Lord, I believe,” and he worshiped him. (John 9:35-38)

So the women hurried away from the tomb, afraid yet filled with joy, and ran to tell his disciples. Suddenly Jesus met them. “Greetings,” he said. They came to him, clasped his feet and worshiped him. (Matthew 28:8-10)

Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. When they saw him, they worshiped him (Matthew 28:16-17)

While in prayer, the second Person of the Trinity, The Son of God was in communion as a man with the first Person of the Trinity, His Father.

Hazelelponi · Sep 5, 2018

confusedmanxx said:
That is his punishment to rule earth and now God has to die to take away his authority
and what differences does this mark. Satan already has authority over man once again on earth, if we assume God death on the Cross would remove his authority, then he failed because satan still rules earth.

Your misunderstanding Jesus's death on the cross and salvation, but I'm falling asleep while writing so i cant really make a solid explanatory post atm.

Satan didn't know Jesus's nature. All Satan knew was what the Jews knew - i.e. what was written in scripture which wasn't necessarily explicit. Prophecy never is.

God did cast Satan out of heaven, and yes Satan has power in this world... that doesn't affect as much as you might think.

We people are a depraved lot. And honestly, we don't much need Satan to conceive of the most evil of things. Our father, as the Bible says, is who our nature displays.

If our nature is displaying a sin nature we are "of our father the devil"

If our nature is displaying a Godly nature, we are children of the living God.

We are born with a sin nature, we don't need much help with desiring sin.

But Jesus overcame sin, and through Jesus, Satan is bound for the believers. Beyond that, it's just who we are, and often we fight our own dual nature..

But Jesus died, because sin came into the world through one man, and so through one came our salvation.

Most of how God deals with His people though, is because that is how we asked HIM to... got bored with manna everyday, wanted spices instead..... decided we wanted a king like other nations...etc etc etc.

1 Samuel 8:7
And the Lord told him: Listen to all that the people are saying to you; it is not you they have rejected; but they have rejected me as their king

Tutorman · Sep 5, 2018

God the Father is God, Christ is God but not the Father He is the Son, The Holy Spirit is God but He is not the Father nor the Son. Three persons and One God

confusedmanxx · Sep 5, 2018

Hazelelponi said:
Your misunderstanding Jesus's death on the cross and salvation, but I'm falling asleep while writing so i cant really make a solid explanatory post atm.

Satan didn't know Jesus's nature. All Satan knew was what the Jews knew - i.e. what was written in scripture which wasn't necessarily explicit. Prophecy never is.

God did cast Satan out of heaven, and yes Satan has power in this world... that doesn't affect as much as you might think.

We people are a depraved lot. And honestly, we don't much need Satan to conceive of the most evil of things. Our father, as the Bible says, is who our nature displays.

If our nature is displaying a sin nature we are "of our father the devil"

If our nature is displaying a Godly nature, we are children of the living God.

We are born with a sin nature, we don't need much help with desiring sin.

But Jesus overcame sin, and through Jesus, Satan is bound for the believers. Beyond that, it's just who we are, and often we fight our own dual nature..

But Jesus died, because sin came into the world through one man, and so through one came our salvation.

Most of how God deals with His people though, is because that is how we asked HIM to... got bored with manna everyday, wanted spices.. etc etc etc.

Greg on the same thread disagree with you
he said

"The way Jesus redeemed mankind's authority was through his right to be our kinsman-redeemer. Jesus' death paid the penalty for sin for all mankind (although only those who choose to yield to his authority gain the benefit of that). God gives such people a rebirth in His kingdom and they are no longer a part of Satan's kingdom."

We are under satan's kingdom now as far as I know.

Hazelelponi · Sep 5, 2018

confusedmanxx said:
Greg on the same thread disagree with you
he said

"The way Jesus redeemed mankind's authority was through his right to be our kinsman-redeemer. Jesus' death paid the penalty for sin for all mankind (although only those who choose to yield to his authority gain the benefit of that). God gives such people a rebirth in His kingdom and they are no longer a part of Satan's kingdom."

We are under satan's kingdom now as far as I know.

He doesnt disagree with me, he is explaining differently is all..

Only people who don't belong to God are under Satan's Kingdom. Not everyone in the world is God's people

Serving Zion · Sep 5, 2018

confusedmanxx said:
Thats news to me. A lot of Christians say I should be worshiping Jesus.

Can you show me some examples? .. it isn't a scriptural idea, but it also wouldn't surprise me that someone has spoken so as to give that impression .. there have been many false teachers (look at 2 Peter 2:1-2, 1 Timothy 4:1-2 and 1 John 4:1-4 - the ones who follow false teachings, although calling themselves Christian, are in fact of the spirit of the antichrist).

Daniel Martinovich · Sep 5, 2018

confusedmanxx said:
1- lets suppose he he has dual nature. when jesus comes back will he have dual nature and worship the father too?

2- Satan told Jesus that God [Whome is also jesus according to christian belief] gave him the authority over all nations
Luke 4:6-7 (NIV)
6 And he said to him, “I will give you all their authority and splendor; it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to. 7 If you worship me, it will all be yours.”

Why did Jesus give the authority to satan and then black mail jesus to worship him in exchange of giving jesus the authority over all nations?

It was Adam and his descendants that gave the world to Satan not God. God have it to Adam and his descendants. They allowed Satan to rule over it by accepting Satan’s lies and rejecting the truth. That brought about confusion and destruction.

Jesus came to reverse that whole scenario. Remember when Jesus sent out the seventy to preach and do miracles? One of the things Jesus said to them when they came back was: “I saw Satan as lightning falling down from heaven.”
What Jesus was teaching them was they way Satan would lose his power over the world was through what they just did. Go out, preach the Gospel, teach the truth about all things and work miracles.

What so many are missing is. Satan’s can only exercise dominion in the earth through men’s hearts. To do that he needs men’s hearts to be overwhelmed with darkness. If however through the power of the Gospel and the light of the Word of God Satan cannot find a place in men’s hearts. Then he cannot exercise power in the earth.

You can see this even culturally. Through they light of the Gospel whole cultures rejected many lies and Satan lost his power over those cultures in those areas. That is how Satan is bound. When he cannot find a place in a culture because people have rejected the lies and embraced he truth.

The job, the great commission is way bigger than people like to think. It is not just about going to heaven but about transforming the world. If your waiting for Jesus to “come back.” Your missing the boat.

FatalHeart · Sep 6, 2018

confusedmanxx said:
1- lets suppose he he has dual nature. when jesus comes back will he have dual nature and worship the father too?

2- Satan told Jesus that God [Whome is also jesus according to christian belief] gave him the authority over all nations
Luke 4:6-7 (NIV)
6 And he said to him, “I will give you all their authority and splendor; it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to. 7 If you worship me, it will all be yours.”

Why did Jesus give the authority to satan and then black mail jesus to worship him in exchange of giving jesus the authority over all nations?

Lol. Funny. "The earth is the Lord's and everything in it." Satan was lying, ultimately. If you read Job, he needs to ask permission for everything. It's kinda both true and not true that Satan has the glory of the earth at his disposal. But as for Jesus and God, it is all given back over to God after God makes Jesus' enemies a footstool for his feet. Many people are scared of making a distinction between God and Jesus because they're scared of its implication in the sacrifice on the cross. But, yeah, the Holy One is the Father and Jesus is His Son.

confusedmanxx · Sep 6, 2018

FatalHeart said:
Lol. Funny. "The earth is the Lord's and everything in it." Satan was lying, ultimately. If you read Job, he needs to ask permission for everything. It's kinda both true and not true that Satan has the glory of the earth at his disposal. But as for Jesus and God, it is all given back over to God after God makes Jesus' enemies a footstool for his feet. Many people are scared of making a distinction between God and Jesus because they're scared of its implication in the sacrifice on the cross. But, yeah, the Holy One is the Father and Jesus is His Son.

So there is no trinity make sense.
Still God sacrificing his exclusive Son is cruel.
It seems God had more sons in the bible :

Exodus 4:22
Then tell Pharaoh that this is what the LORD says: 'Israel is My firstborn son,

Exodus 4:23
and I told you to let My son go so that he may worship Me. But you have refused to let him go, so I will kill your firstborn son!'"

Couple of questions

:sighing:

Active Member

Seek First His Kingdom & Righteousness

debtor to grace

Active Member

Active Member

Active Member

Attachments

Active Member

Seek First His Kingdom & Righteousness

Active Member

Active Member

debtor to grace

:sighing:

Charismatic Episcopalian

Active Member

:sighing:

Seek First His Kingdom & Righteousness

Friend

Wisdom's Associate

Active Member

Similar threads