Couple of questions

confusedmanxx · Sep 5, 2018

1- lets suppose he he has dual nature. when jesus comes back will he have dual nature and worship the father too?

2- Satan told Jesus that God [Whome is also jesus according to christian belief] gave him the authority over all nations
Luke 4:6-7 (NIV)
6 And he said to him, “I will give you all their authority and splendor; it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to. 7 If you worship me, it will all be yours.”

Why did Jesus give the authority to satan and then black mail jesus to worship him in exchange of giving jesus the authority over all nations?

dreadnought · Sep 5, 2018

confusedmanxx said:
1- lets suppose he he has dual nature. when jesus comes back will he have dual nature and worship the father too?

2- Satan told Jesus that God [Whome is also jesus according to christian belief] gave him the authority over all nations
Luke 4:6-7 (NIV)
6 And he said to him, “I will give you all their authority and splendor; it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to. 7 If you worship me, it will all be yours.”

Why did Jesus give the authority to satan and then black mail jesus to worship him in exchange of giving jesus the authority over all nations?

1- I am among those who believe Jesus was God in flesh. It is as simple as that.
2- Jesus does hint that Satan is the ruler of this world, though I believe the Lord always intervenes at the right moment. Satan wasn't blackmailing Jesus, though, I don't think. He was tempting him.

Greg J. · Sep 5, 2018

confusedmanxx said:
1- lets suppose he he has dual nature. when jesus comes back will he have dual nature and worship the father too?

2- Satan told Jesus that God [Whome is also jesus according to christian belief] gave him the authority over all nations
Luke 4:6-7 (NIV)
6 And he said to him, “I will give you all their authority and splendor; it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to. 7 If you worship me, it will all be yours.”

Why did Jesus give the authority to satan and then black mail jesus to worship him in exchange of giving jesus the authority over all nations?

1. It depends on what you mean by worship. The truth of Jesus' words did not change after he returned to heaven.

“You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. (John 14:28, 1984 NIV)

2. God granted mankind this authority:

Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.” (Genesis 1:26, 1984 NIV)

which he won't take away:

for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. (Romans 11:29, 1984 NIV)

However, when Adam sinned, he broke is connection to his Source of life and came under the domination of the Father of all sin and death.

You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. (John 8:44, 1984 NIV)

Which allowed all who had a sinful nature to be dominated by Satan. i.e., the ruler of the earth with respect to the authority that God had given mankind. However, nothing changed that fact that God created everything and was and is higher than all authority (Philippians 2:9-10, Colossians 1:15-17).

The earth is the LORD’S, and everything in it, the world, and all who live in it; (Psalms 24:1, 1984 NIV)

Jesus knew that his mission on earth was to recover mankind's rulership of the earth, and to do so he was going to suffer and die. Satan was tempting Jesus to take a short cut (Matthew 4:9-10). But of course the offer was a deception, because the act of bowing down and worship Satan would have brought Jesus under the same domination that mankind was under.

The way Jesus redeemed mankind's authority was through his right to be our kinsman-redeemer. Jesus' death paid the penalty for sin for all mankind (although only those who choose to yield to his authority gain the benefit of that). God gives such people a rebirth in His kingdom and they are no longer a part of Satan's kingdom.

For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves, (Colossians 1:13, 1984 NIV)

Hazelelponi · Sep 5, 2018

1) Jesus and Satan are not the same in Christianity

2) Satan wasn't blackmailing Him he was tempting Him.

3) Jesus's Kingdom is not of this world.

4) Satan, also known as the prince of this world, was giving an offer of worldly rule.

5) Jesus was fully human AND fully God, so in Jesus's humanity He could have been susceptible to temptation. (But of course did not succumb)

6) This temptation was allowed in order to show us that Jesus's Kingdom is not a worldly one. That's been a theological point, and why Jesus was rejected by many, they hoped for a worldly kingdom. This temptation is simply further proof of where our hoped for Kingdom is.

Lastly) I believe that when Jesus comes back it will be to separate the wheat from the chaff once and for all. We will see Him then as fully Divine, while yet recognizing His role as Savior. But it will be in full judgment mode when we see Him again.

confusedmanxx · Sep 5, 2018

dreadnought said:
1- I am among those who believe Jesus was God in flesh. It is as simple as that.
2- Jesus does hint that Satan is the ruler of this world, though I believe the Lord always intervenes at the right moment. Satan wasn't blackmailing Jesus, though, I don't think. He was tempting him.

Yeah well he said
Luke 4:6-7 (NIV)
6 And he said to him, “I will give you all their authority and splendor; it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to. 7 If you worship me, it will all be yours.”

Who gave him the authority except God? Why would God give Satan the authority over his own creations only that he would try to tempt him with the same authority later?

confusedmanxx · Sep 5, 2018

dreadnought said:
1- I am among those who believe Jesus was God in flesh. It is as simple as that.
2- Jesus does hint that Satan is the ruler of this world, though I believe the Lord always intervenes at the right moment. Satan wasn't blackmailing Jesus, though, I don't think. He was tempting him.

Thats black mail right here.
For example if I give you my Bag and You tell me "Your bag was given to me and I will not return it to you until you bow down to me" thats sound like a threat to God almighty. Not to mention according to the bible It was satan who killed God on the Cross through entering Judas and Jesus wished that Judas would not have been born

Mark 14:21
The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born."

Luke 22:3
And the chief priests and scribes were looking for a way to put Jesus to death; for they feared the people. 3Then Satan entered Judas Iscariot,who was one of the Twelve.

I am bit confused about Jesus actions and Satan's threat to Jesus
Bow down to worship me ----> I will give you the world which you gave me
that doesn't seem logical at all

confusedmanxx · Sep 5, 2018

dreadnought said:
1- I am among those who believe Jesus was God in flesh. It is as simple as that.

Wasn't according to you Jesus had dual nature.
If we assume Jesus is both man and God at the same time and he needed to pray to God [Who is also him self] to take the cup of death from him not according to His will but the Will of the father [Who is also him].

Doesn't that mean when he returns his human nature will worship his 2nd divine nature?

Serving Zion · Sep 5, 2018

confusedmanxx said:
Yeah well he said
Luke 4:6-7 (NIV)
6 And he said to him, “I will give you all their authority and splendor; it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to. 7 If you worship me, it will all be yours.”

So wait a sec. I thought Jesus was God according to your beliefs and we all know God has the authority of the world.
Satan tells him [God] , Worship Me [Satan] and if you do then :
"I will give you the whole world if you worship me"
And He said "All authority over the world was given to me"

Who gave him the authority except God?

The devil is the father of lies.. remember this, that he is tempting Jesus, to see if He will take Satan as a master (eg: teacher, instructor, lord). There is some element of truth in what Satan said there (1 John 5:19), but it is taught with a devious intention (Proverbs 25:26), therefore not being of the spirit of God (hence Luke 4:8).

The world yields itself to the power of the evil one when it chooses to do sin instead of Torah, hence scriptures "come out of her, my people, lest you take part in the plagues coming upon her" and "do not be conformed to the pattern of the world, but transformed by the renewing of the mind".

Consider Romans 6:16, Romans 7:9, Romans 7:14, John 8:34-36.

Rescued One · Sep 5, 2018

I guess people missed the simple explanation. Jesus didn't say that.

Satan said:
5 The devil led him up to a high place and showed him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world. 6 And he said to him, “I will give you all their authority and splendor; it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to. 7 If you worship me, it will all be yours.”

Jesus said:
8 Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God and serve him only.’ ”

A red letter Bible makes it easier to read.

Jesus talked to His Father in the garden. They communicate with each other.

confusedmanxx · Sep 5, 2018

Serving Zion said:
The devil is the father of lies.. remember this, that he is tempting Jesus, to see if He will take Satan as a master (eg: teacher, instructor, lord). There is some element of truth in what Satan said there (1 John 5:19), but it is taught with a devious intention (Proverbs 25:26), therefore not being of the spirit of God (hence Luke 4:8).

The world yields itself to the power of the evil one when it chooses to do sin instead of Torah, hence scriptures "come out of her, my people, lest you take part in the plagues coming upon her" and "do not be conformed to the pattern of the world, but transformed by the renewing of the mind".

Consider Romans 6:16, Romans 7:9, Romans 7:14, John 8:34-36.

But he didn't lie according to Jesus. Jesus never said he lied. Further more He confirmed that God gave authority to satan

John 14:30
30 I will not say much more to you, for the prince of this world is coming. He has no hold over me,
_

Further more Can you answer me this question, If Jesus still having dual nature. When he comes back will he bow down to the father [due to his human nature forcing him to] like in

Luke 6:12
One of those days Jesus went out to a mountainside to pray, and spent the night praying to God.

confusedmanxx · Sep 5, 2018

Phoebe Ann said:
I guess people missed the simple explanation. Jesus didn't say that.

Satan said:
5 The devil led him up to a high place and showed him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world. 6 And he said to him, “I will give you all their authority and splendor; it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to. 7 If you worship me, it will all be yours.”

Jesus said:
8 Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God and serve him only.’ ”

A red letter Bible makes it easier to read.

Jesus talked to His Father in the garden. They communicate with each other.

He spent the whole night praying to the father [ which is also him self]

Luke 6:12
One of those days Jesus went out to a mountainside to pray, and spent the night praying to God.

This is due to his Human nature [as christian claims] but the problem is does Jesus still have human body nature? does that mean when he returns he will pray to His father too all night?

Serving Zion · Sep 5, 2018

confusedmanxx said:
But he didn't lie according to Jesus. Jesus never said he lied.

John 8:44 says that the devil is the father of lies. I do not suggest that Satan was lying, but that he was not telling the truth in a holy spirit. There is a way to use truth that is able to lead a person into error. That is the devil's approach .. and this is our battle as humans - where knowledge is power.

confusedmanxx said:
Further more He confirmed that God gave authority to satan

John 14:30
30 I will not say much more to you, for the prince of this world is coming. He has no hold over me,
_

I would not agree that God gave authority to Satan. If you consider those verses I gave you: (Romans 6:16, Romans 7:9, Romans 7:14, John 8:34-36), it shows that humans are the ones that give Satan the authority to enact evil through them (specifically for this matter, Matthew 27:18). Furthermore, the power that Pontius Pilate had been given in order to crucify Jesus, (although Jesus said that it was given from above), was taken by those who were acting in sin: John 19:11. Jesus was not overpowered by that though, but rather He gave up His own life as a sacrifice (Matthew 26:52-53, John 10:17-18, Isaiah 53:7).

confusedmanxx said:
Further more Can you answer me this question, If Jesus still having dual nature. When he comes back will he bow down to the father [due to his human nature forcing him to] like in

Luke 6:12
One of those days Jesus went out to a mountainside to pray, and spent the night praying to God.

I would expect so, yes. Jesus said "God is spirit. Those who worship Him must worship in spirit and in truth". A human is a creature of flesh, with a mind that connects the spiritual to the physical.

confusedmanxx · Sep 5, 2018

Serving Zion said:
John 8:44 says that the devil is the father of lies. I do not suggest that Satan was lying, but that he was not telling the truth in a holy spirit. There is a way to use truth that is able to lead a person into error. That is the devil's approach .. and this is our battle as humans - where knowledge is power.

I would not agree that God gave authority to Satan. If you consider those verses I gave you: (Romans 6:16, Romans 7:9, Romans 7:14, John 8:34-36), it shows that humans are the ones that give Satan the authority to enact evil through them (specifically for this matter, Matthew 27:18). Furthermore, the power that Pontius Pilate had been given in order to crucify Jesus, (although Jesus said that it was given from above), was taken by those who were acting in sin: John 19:11. Jesus was not overpowered by that though, but rather He gave up His own life as a sacrifice (Matthew 26:52-53, John 10:17-18, Isaiah 53:7).

I would expect so, yes. Jesus said "God is spirit. Those who worship Him must worship in spirit and in truth". A human is a creature of flesh, with a mind that connects the spiritual to the physical.

So what the point of Jesus becoming God in flesh if we can't worship him since his human nature will force him to worship him self?

Rescued One · Sep 5, 2018

Jesus is God the Son; He is not the Father. He was with the Father in the beginning. Why all night? He was facing the crucifixion and knew it would be excruciatingly painful. When He returns, He won't be facing the crucifixion.

I haven't been to a seminary to study in depth. One of the chaplains can probably help you more.

Rescued One · Sep 5, 2018

People are confusing the meaning of nature.

confusedmanxx · Sep 5, 2018

Phoebe Ann said:
Jesus is God the Son; He is not the Father. He was with the Father in the beginning. Why all night? He was facing the crucifixion and knew it would be excruciatingly painful. When He returns, He won't be facing the crucifixion.

I haven't been to a seminary to study in depth. One of the chaplains can probably help you more.

Wait so there is no trinity?

Presbyterian Continuist · Sep 5, 2018

confusedmanxx said:
1- lets suppose he he has dual nature. when jesus comes back will he have dual nature and worship the father too?

2- Satan told Jesus that God [Whome is also jesus according to christian belief] gave him the authority over all nations
Luke 4:6-7 (NIV)
6 And he said to him, “I will give you all their authority and splendor; it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to. 7 If you worship me, it will all be yours.”

Why did Jesus give the authority to satan and then black mail jesus to worship him in exchange of giving jesus the authority over all nations?

Because Satan is a liar, there is no evidence that just because he told Jesus he had authority over all the kingdoms of the world to be able to pass on to Him, that he was telling the truth.

confusedmanxx · Sep 5, 2018

Oscarr said:
Because Satan is a liar, there is no evidence that just because he told Jesus he had authority over all the kingdoms of the world to be able to pass on to Him, that he was telling the truth.

John 14:30
30 I will not say much more to you, for the prince of this world is coming. He has no hold over me,

royal priest · Sep 5, 2018

Greg J. said:
1. It depends on what you mean by worship. The truth of Jesus' words did not change after he returned to heaven.

“You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. (John 14:28, 1984 NIV)

2. God granted mankind this authority:

Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.” (Genesis 1:26, 1984 NIV)

which he won't take away:

for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. (Romans 11:29, 1984 NIV)

However, when Adam sinned, he broke is connection to his Source of life and came under the domination of the Father of all sin and death.

You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. (John 8:44, 1984 NIV)

Which allowed all who had a sinful nature to be dominated by Satan. i.e., the ruler of the earth with respect to the authority that God had given mankind. However, nothing changed that fact that God created everything and was and is higher than all authority (Philippians 2:9-10, Colossians 1:15-17).

The earth is the LORD’S, and everything in it, the world, and all who live in it; (Psalms 24:1, 1984 NIV)

Jesus knew that his mission on earth was to recover mankind's rulership of the earth, and to do so he was going to suffer and die. Satan was tempting Jesus to take a short cut (Matthew 4:9-10). But of course the offer was a deception, because the act of bowing down and worship Satan would have brought Jesus under the same domination that mankind was under.

The way Jesus redeemed mankind's authority was through his right to be our kinsman-redeemer. Jesus' death paid the penalty for sin for all mankind (although only those who choose to yield to his authority gain the benefit of that). God gives such people a rebirth in His kingdom and they are no longer a part of Satan's kingdom.

For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves, (Colossians 1:13, 1984 NIV)

Very good answer!

confusedmanxx · Sep 5, 2018

royal priest said:
Very good answer!

That doesn't answer any thing why would God death on the Holy Cross recover the rulership to Humans?
Why couldn't the father just restore authority by his power?

And it doesn't answer, If Jesus is human and have dual nature doesn't that mean he will worship Him self again when he comes back [due to his human nature forcing him to worship]?

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