Having the Holy Spirit, does that mean I am saved?

JIMINZ

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Think about it. It’s night time any only Jesus and His 11 apostles are with Him. Judas has already gone to betray Him. And Jesus says to His apostles remain in me and I will remain in you. He is warning His apostles to continue to produce fruit and to abide in Him after He is gone.

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Again, that is the way you read it, (I Don't).

If what your saying is true then think about it, why does it take Jesus to say in 10 verses what it has just taken you 1 sentence to say.

Let me get this straight.

1) Your argument was Christians could walk away from Salvation.
2) Your argument was Christians can sin.
3) Your argument is they must continue to produce fruit.

Your Interpretation of these 10 verses keep changing, that is why I have said your in error.

I say the 10 verses are true, but they are not about a Christian losing his Salvation or his sinning, or his not producing fruit.
 
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BNR32FAN

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OK, don't give me all the sins a Christian is capable of committing, just very simply tell me.
1) How does a Christian sin.
2) What is it, that causes a Christian to sin.

We all know that sin is the transgression (breaking) of the Law.

1Jn. 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

We also know that sin, is the only thing which separates us from God.

Our flesh causes us to sin.
 
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Alithis

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Yes there is a difference between stumbling in sin and being a slave to sin. :oldthumbsup:
yes -the verse in 1 john every like so much is .. "-IF we sin we have an advocate ... but they read it as though it says WHEN .. but it does not say WHEN, because the ongoing practice of sin is NOT done by those born of the Holy Spirit (born again)
it says "IF" it is speaking of a blunder not a repetitive practice .

(john also speaks to three levels of believers -babes in Christ , young men in Christ and fathers in Christ . he is simultaneously addressing three levels of growth in the faith .. children make mistakes , young men overcome ,fathers are well established .
So what is graciously forgiven for the babe in Christ
-is absolutely NOT acceptable to the young man in Christ ,
and it eternal damnation to the established in Christ .
 
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BNR32FAN

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Don't get me wrong, theses verses are absolutely true, I am not saying they are not.

What I am saying is, you are mistaken in your Interpretation of them.

If you once believed in OSAS and now you don't, then just what was it that changed your Mind, Understanding, Belief?

These verses changed my mind about OSAS.

“All who are victorious will be clothed in white. I will never erase their names from the Book of Life, but I will announce before my Father and his angels that they are mine. “Anyone with ears to hear must listen to the Spirit and understand what he is saying to the churches.”

Revelation 3:5-6

“To all who are victorious, who obey me to the very end, To them I will give authority over all the nations. They will rule the nations with an iron rod and smash them like clay pots. They will have the same authority I received from my Father, and I will also give them the morning star! “Anyone with ears to hear must listen to the Spirit and understand what he is saying to the churches.”

Revelation 2:26-29

I am the true grapevine, and my Father is the gardener. He cuts off every branch of mine that doesn’t produce fruit, and he prunes the branches that do bear fruit so they will produce even more. You have already been pruned and purified by the message I have given you. Remain in me, and I will remain in you. For a branch cannot produce fruit if it is severed from the vine, and you cannot be fruitful unless you remain in me. “Yes, I am the vine; you are the branches. Those who remain in me, and I in them, will produce much fruit. For apart from me you can do nothing. Anyone who does not remain in me is thrown away like a useless branch and withers. Such branches are gathered into a pile to be burned.


John 15:1-6


When you follow the desires of your sinful nature, the results are very clear: sexual immorality, impurity, lustful pleasures, idolatry, sorcery, hostility, quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissension, division, envy, drunkenness, wild parties, and other sins like these. Let me tell you again, as I have before, that anyone living that sort of life will not inherit the Kingdom of God.


Galatians 5:19-21


Even now the ax of God’s judgment is poised, ready to sever the roots of the trees. Yes, every tree that does not produce good fruit will be chopped down and thrown into the fire.


Matthew 3:10


Nothing evil will be allowed to enter, nor anyone who practices shameful idolatry and dishonesty—but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life.


Revelation 21:27


Let there be no sexual immorality, impurity, or greed among you. Such sins have no place among God’s people. Obscene stories, foolish talk, and coarse jokes—these are not for you. Instead, let there be thankfulness to God. You can be sure that no immoral, impure, or greedy person will inherit the Kingdom of Christ and of God. For a greedy person is an idolater, worshiping the things of this world. Don’t be fooled by those who try to excuse these sins, for the anger of God will fall on all who disobey him.


Ephesians 5:3-6


Jesus replied, “The Son of Man is the farmer who plants the good seed. The field is the world, and the good seed represents the people of the Kingdom. The weeds are the people who belong to the evil one. The enemy who planted the weeds among the wheat is the devil. The harvest is the end of the world, and the harvesters are the angels. “Just as the weeds are sorted out and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the world. The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will remove from his Kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. And the angels will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in their Father’s Kingdom. Anyone with ears to hear should listen and understand!


Matthew 13:37-43


A faithful, sensible servant is one to whom the master can give the responsibility of managing his other household servants and feeding them. If the master returns and finds that the servant has done a good job, there will be a reward. I tell you the truth, the master will put that servant in charge of all he owns. But what if the servant is evil and thinks, ‘My master won’t be back for a while,’ and he begins beating the other servants, partying, and getting drunk? The master will return unannounced and unexpected, and he will cut the servant to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.


Matthew 24:45-51

These are just a few examples of scriptures that are pertaining to believers. Sure they also apply to nonbelievers but nonbelievers don’t qualify for salvation to begin with because without believing salvation is impossible for them. These were written specifically for believers because they must adhere to these standards otherwise they will not enter the kingdom of God. Furthermore the apostolic church always taught that salvation can be lost and a believer can turn away from God. OSAS wasn’t taught until the 16th century. Do you believe that all of Christianity was misinformed until the 16th century? That all of God’s churches were not teaching the truth for the first 1500 years of Christianity? I did at one time until I learned about the Orthodox Church.
 
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aiki

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If you are offered a treatment for cancer, and you are obedient to go along with it. Is it you or the treatment that saves you?

The treatment, obviously. No amount of obedience would make a bit of difference if it was to a wrong or ineffective thing. And we don't follow a treatment regimen in being saved. We simply trust in what has already been done for us. That's it. No pills to swallow, no chemotherapy to endure, no check-ups, or bloodtests, or x-rays. Our salvation is a gift that we receive by faith that we can do nothing to deserve and to which we cannot positively contribute.
 
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aiki

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if you love him .the person -the Savior ..you DO what he says .

Yes, that's right.

you can earn what he has already done for us . thats grace

??? No, you cannot earn what is given to you by grace. If you can earn salvation, you don't require grace.

Romans 11:6
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

faith is to then take action upon it .
no faith , no belief
no love for him .

As I already explained, faith gives rise to action but it is no more the action it causes than the leaves tumbling across the lawn on a windy day are the wind itself.

people that say they believe in him for salvation but do not do what he said .. do not believe in him at all. because to believe in him is to obey him .

Right.

it is ALL entwined , no one part of the gospel message is independent of any other part of the message .
you can take you favorite verse and say "this is the gospel" because that's a lie, being a half truth .. you have to take ALL the Gospel message together .

Yes, I understand this. Do you? From some of the things you've written in this thread, it seems you have the Gospel a bit confused.

Jesus is the door it is by him we enter in ..then we must walk as he walked .he is the WAY.

Exactly. Jesus is the Way, not our works. We enter in by him and then we do good works as a result, not in order to enter.

beware dissecting pieces of scripture and inserting them into a preferred tradition and laying that tradition OVER the whole word of God . then not being a doer of the whole word .

Why should I beware of something I don't do? Are you being careful to avoid doing what you describe here? Not so well, I think.
 
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aiki

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if you love him .the person -the Savior ..you DO what he says .

Yes, that's right.

you can earn what he has already done for us . thats grace

??? No, you cannot earn what is given to you by grace. If you can earn salvation, you don't require grace.

Romans 11:6
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

faith is to then take action upon it .
no faith , no belief
no love for him .

As I already explained, faith gives rise to action but it is no more the action it causes than the leaves tumbling across the lawn on a windy day are the wind itself.

people that say they believe in him for salvation but do not do what he said .. do not believe in him at all. because to believe in him is to obey him .

Right.

it is ALL entwined , no one part of the gospel message is independent of any other part of the message .
you can take you favorite verse and say "this is the gospel" because that's a lie, being a half truth .. you have to take ALL the Gospel message together .

Yes, I understand this. Do you? From some of the things you've written in this thread, it seems you have the Gospel a bit confused.

Jesus is the door it is by him we enter in ..then we must walk as he walked .he is the WAY.

Exactly. Jesus is the Way, not our works. We enter in by him and then we do good works as a result, not in order to enter.

beware dissecting pieces of scripture and inserting them into a preferred tradition and laying that tradition OVER the whole word of God . then not being a doer of the whole word .

Why should I beware of something I don't do? Are you being careful to avoid doing what you describe here? Not so well, I think.
 
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Alithis

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Yes, that's right.



??? No, you cannot earn what is given to you by grace. If you can earn salvation, you don't require grace.

Romans 11:6
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.




As I already explained, faith gives rise to action but it is no more the action it causes than the leaves tumbling across the lawn on a windy day are the wind itself.



Right.



Yes, I understand this. Do you? From some of the things you've written in this thread, it seems you have the Gospel a bit confused.



Exactly. Jesus is the Way, not our works. We enter in by him and then we do good works as a result, not in order to enter.



Why should I beware of something I don't do? Are you being careful to avoid doing what you describe here? Not so well, I think.
--- typo .. ypu canT earn... i think anyone could see that was a typo lol .

and if we do not continue to do good we are no longer on the way ... we wil not arrive at the destination. this is simple truth .
but you must be cautious that in al your dissecting and picking posts into peices that you are not encouraging people to remain in the practice of sin . for to remain in the practice of sin when you know it is sin is the very opposite of repentance and the unrepentant do not enter the kingdom of heaven no matter what theological spin your give it .

So off you go - Go out ,heal the sick ,preach the gospel . drive out devils ,baptize them in Jesus name and teach them to do the same teaching them to observe ALL Jesus has commanded .
so many many many people argue and discuss doctrine yet never go and DO the things our lord did and told us to do . in fact they busy themselves doing everything else . trying to "make up for " (atone) for thier ongoing guilt because they are busy continuing to practice sin .
yes GOD can see -he is not blind to the pretense of Sunday repentance .
 
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BNR32FAN

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--- typo .. ypu canT earn... i think anyone could see that was a typo lol .

and if we do not continue to do good we are no longer on the way ... we wil not arrive at the destination. this is simple truth .
but you must be cautious that in al your dissecting and picking posts into peices that you are not encouraging people to remain in the practice of sin . for to remain in the practice of sin when you know it is sin is the very opposite of repentance and the unrepentant do not enter the kingdom of heaven no matter what theological spin your give it .

So off you go - Go out ,heal the sick ,preach the gospel . drive out devils ,baptize them in Jesus name and teach them to do the same teaching them to observe ALL Jesus has commanded .
so many many many people argue and discuss doctrine yet never go and DO the things our lord did and told us to do . in fact they busy themselves doing everything else . trying to "make up for " (atone) for thier ongoing guilt because they are busy continuing to practice sin .
yes GOD can see -he is not blind to the pretense of Sunday repentance .

Faith without works makes a pretty wide gateway to heaven.
 
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Alithis

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Faith without works makes a pretty wide gateway to heaven.
lol its make no gate at all no wall even , no walls at all in fact why not just move heaven into hell -yeah really its just that ridiculous .
but anyways -- one says we must work if saved and one is right and that without that action ( don't get hung up on the word works (paul speaks against works being opposed to works of law such as slaughtering bulls and circumcising /and james speaks of works as righteous actions -two very different references )
the simple truth is .. we both agree - is that if Jesus says //DO THIS .. then the one who believes -DOES IT .. the other is just faking it .
 
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JIMINZ

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Our earthly physical body

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That is the point right there, that's where you begin to misunderstand.

The Flesh as spoken of by Paul is not (Our earthly Physical Body).

The Flesh as spoken of by Paul is (Our Sinful Nature) (Our Soul)

The Flesh as spoken of by Paul is (Our Old Man, This Body of Sin)

Have you not heard, the Flesh is dead?
What then was Paul speaking about when he said this.

Rom 6:5-7
5) For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7) For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Therefore, with a Christian being Dead to the Flesh and Freed from Sin, I ask again, how then does the Christian sin?
 
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Alithis

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That is the point right there, that's where you begin to misunderstand.

The Flesh as spoken of by Paul is not (Our earthly Physical Body).

The Flesh as spoken of by Paul is (Our Sinful Nature) (Our Soul)

The Flesh as spoken of by Paul is (Our Old Man, This Body of Sin)

Have you not heard, the Flesh is dead?
What then was Paul speaking about when he said this.

Rom 6:5-7
5) For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7) For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Therefore, with a Christian being Dead to the Flesh and Freed from Sin, I ask again, how then does the Christian sin?
simple - by disobeying the Holy Spirit -- and does the holy spirit lead you into all sin ? or all truth ? yup simple isn't it .. thats why he says live after the spirit and you wont fulfill the desires of the flesh
it is also why he says if you live after the flesh to do its desires you will die and if you live after the spirit you will live - why ? because the choice remains ours always .God does not make us robots he sets us free -that is true freedom .
we will always serve what we love the most . whether sin unto death or righteousness unto everlasting life . this is the freedom God has made available to us through the Lord Jesus dying on the cross and rising again .it was gracious of him to make it available to us - but we must live obediently in it to obtain it .

(you may have noticed i dont bother replying to dissected posts - learn to take the over all essence of a persons post and address it as a whole .. dont treat it like people treat the scriptures ..picking them into little pieces and building false theologies around each favorite preferred verse -it is a dishonest approach to begin with .
 
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Alithis

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i do note - a body without a soul is mostly buried under 6 ft of dirt or cremated . the flesh desires things of flesh the souls (mind and emotions decides whether to give it its desires or not (the SPIRIT is brand new creation in Christ -IF they have indeed been born again .

you cant disassociate the physical flesh from the carnal nature .
 
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BNR32FAN

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lol its make no gate at all no wall even , no walls at all in fact why not just move heaven into hell -yeah really its just that ridiculous .
but anyways -- one says we must work if saved and one is right and that without that action ( don't get hung up on the word works (paul speaks against works being opposed to works of law such as slaughtering bulls and circumcising /and james speaks of works as righteous actions -two very different references )
the simple truth is .. we both agree - is that if Jesus says //DO THIS .. then the one who believes -DOES IT .. the other is just faking it .

I’m trying to remember...what was it that separated the sheep from the goats? Lol
 
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BNR32FAN

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That is the point right there, that's where you begin to misunderstand.

The Flesh as spoken of by Paul is not (Our earthly Physical Body).

The Flesh as spoken of by Paul is (Our Sinful Nature) (Our Soul)

The Flesh as spoken of by Paul is (Our Old Man, This Body of Sin)

Have you not heard, the Flesh is dead?
What then was Paul speaking about when he said this.

Rom 6:5-7
5) For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7) For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Therefore, with a Christian being Dead to the Flesh and Freed from Sin, I ask again, how then does the Christian sin?

The body of sin is our earthly body of flesh. John 1:14 The Word became flesh. Did Jesus become sinful nature?
 
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Neogaia777

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Faith without works makes a pretty wide gateway to heaven.
Actually it's not, cause very few people can actually do it, live by faith with absolutely no reliance on works, them not even coming to mind... Harder than you think... Cause most do see some value in "their works", what "They did" ect... But that is flesh, and that is sin...

To live by faith perfectly is total complete reliance and trust upon God, and is basically, all of God, and none of you, in you or with you (your works, whatever)... Very few can actually do this... But not doing it is sin... In that way were all guilty...

God Bless!
 
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