Is it Godly to demand rights as a tither?

Childofgodharrison · Sep 2, 2018

curious mike said:
The way I see it, tithing is something we should want to do and not something we should do to get something in return. Looking at this article here:

http://blog.kcm.org/3-tithers-rights-every-christian-know/

that article is suggesting to me that we can demand rights as tither. I am not sure if should "demand" anything from God?

I don't believe what they are saying in that article. I don't know if we are suppose to tithes. But I do know that we are to give. I think that melchizedek was an example of how much. Out of all our income we should give at least a tenth or more, not less than a tenth. Not expecting anything back. The world is all about money. So our giving out of all our income is keeping us from worshiping money and living for money.

Saint Steven · Sep 4, 2018

Ken Rank said:
God is not our puppet, we don't demand anything of Him, HE is Lord. In addition, He isn't our genie who, if we speak to Him the correct way (i.e. rub the bottle the right way, or say the magic words), will do our bidding for us. That is actually a pagan concept. We are at HIS mercy, we are to walk according to HIS will and tithing, if you believe we are expected to do it... is then a command we follow, not a high card we use to up the ante.

If we expect something from our tithe, ANYTHING, then we are giving for the wrong reasons.

(Ken probably won't reply, anyone else is welcome)
Hold the bus. What about this?
If God invites a test, isn't it okay then?

Malachi 3:9-11
You are under a curse—your whole nation—because you are robbing me. 10 Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this,” says the Lord Almighty, “and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that there will not be room enough to store it. 11 I will prevent pests from devouring your crops, and the vines in your fields will not drop their fruit before it is ripe,” says the Lord Almighty.

RDKirk · Sep 5, 2018

Saint Steven said:
(Ken probably won't reply, anyone else is welcome)
Hold the bus. What about this?
If God invites a test, isn't it okay then?

Malachi 3:9-11
You are under a curse—your whole nation—because you are robbing me. 10 Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this,” says the Lord Almighty, “and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that there will not be room enough to store it. 11 I will prevent pests from devouring your crops, and the vines in your fields will not drop their fruit before it is ripe,” says the Lord Almighty.

First, Malachi is actually talking to the priests.

Second, Malachi is talking about the Mosaic Law and the specific tithe requirements as explicitly detailed by God for how the economy of Israel would operate.

Third, Christians are not under the Mosaic Covenant, and Christians have been given explicit different instructions for how the economy of the Body of Christ should operate.

Our desire is not that others might be relieved while you are hard pressed, but that there might be equality.

At the present time your plenty will supply what they need, so that in turn their plenty will supply what you need.

The goal is equality, as it is written: “The one who gathered much did not have too much, and the one who gathered little did not have too little.”
2 Corinthians 8:13-15

Saint Steven · Sep 5, 2018

RDKirk said:
First, Malachi is actually talking to the priests.

Second, Malachi is talking about the Mosaic Law and the specific tithe requirements as explicitly detailed by God for how the economy of Israel would operate.

Third, Christians are not under the Mosaic Covenant, and Christians have been given explicit different instructions for how the economy of the Body of Christ should operate.

Our desire is not that others might be relieved while you are hard pressed, but that there might be equality.

At the present time your plenty will supply what they need, so that in turn their plenty will supply what you need.

The goal is equality, as it is written: “The one who gathered much did not have too much, and the one who gathered little did not have too little.”
2 Corinthians 8:13-15

That's interesting. I mostly agree.
How did you conclude that Malachi is actually talking to the priests? I don't see that in the passage. Evidently you do?

RaymondG · Sep 5, 2018

Saint Steven said:
That's interesting. I mostly agree.
How did you conclude that Malachi is actually talking to the priests? I don't see that in the passage. Evidently you do?

Malachi 2:1 "And now, O ye priests, this commandment is for you."....................

Saint Steven · Sep 5, 2018

RaymondG said:
Malachi 2:2 "And now, O ye priests, this commandment is for you."....................

I think you meant...

Malachi 2:1
“And now, you priests, this warning is for you.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

That's interesting, but I am not convinced. Is it still only to priests in chapter three?

RaymondG · Sep 6, 2018

Saint Steven said:
I think you meant...

Malachi 2:1
“And now, you priests, this warning is for you.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

That's interesting, but I am not convinced. Is it still only to priests in chapter three?

Yes, I corrected it. My quote was from KJV, by the way. I get a sense that chapter 2 on is for the priest....If we look at it literally. I happen to be more interested in spiritual meanings and personal applications, myself.

Saint Steven · Sep 6, 2018

RaymondG said:
Yes, I corrected it. My quote was from KVJ, by the way. I get a sense that chapter 2 on is for the priest....If we look at it literally. I happen to be more interested in spiritual meanings and personal applications, myself.

I can see that from verse one through nine of chapter two it is talking to Priests. But it seems to turn at verse ten through the end of the chapter. (vs 17) So, I am not connecting this to chapter three. Are you seeing something different here? I like the direction you are going with this, but it doesn't seem to hold up.

RaymondG · Sep 6, 2018

Saint Steven said:
I can see that from verse one through nine of chapter two it is talking to Priests. But it seems to turn at verse ten through the end of the chapter. (vs 17) So, I am not connecting this to chapter three. Are you seeing something different here? I like the direction you are going with this, but it doesn't seem to hold up.

Malachi 1:1 " The burden of the word of the Lord to Israel by Malachi."

-Some would assume this is talking to all of Israel....and this would be understandable, since no specification is given. What is less understandable would be why one would change the audience after this line without the author specifying this change. e.g. How would one say verses 1:1 -1:5 was for Israel, but the end of the chapter/book was for someone else.

Until the author changes the audience himself, that is. which happens in chapter two..

Malachi 2:1 "And now, O ye priests, this commandment is for you."

I could repeat the same as above:
-Some would assume this is talking to Priest only....and this would be understandable, since a specific audience is given. What is less understandable would be why one would change the audience after this line without the author specifying this change. e.g. How would one say verses 2:1 -2:10 was for the priests , but the end of the chapter/book was for someone else.

Saint Steven said:
But it seems to turn at verse ten

Verse 12,13:
"12 The Lord will cut off the man that doeth this, the master and the scholar, out of the tabernacles of Jacob, and him that offereth an offering unto the Lord of hosts.
13 And this have ye done again, covering the altar of the Lord with tears, with weeping, and with crying out, insomuch that he regardeth not the offering any more, or receiveth it with good will at your hand."

I believe the Priests were the only ones to offer the offerings so it would be possible for them to be the audience even after verse ten.

Again, I believe these have spiritual meanings....and the spirit is what gives life.

RDKirk · Sep 6, 2018

RaymondG said:
Malachi 1:1 " The burden of the word of the Lord to Israel by Malachi."

-Some would assume this is talking to all of Israel....and this would be understandable, since no specification is given. What is less understandable would be why one would change the audience after this line without the author specifying this change. e.g. How would one say verses 1:1 -1:5 was for Israel, but the end of the chapter/book was for someone else.

Until the author changes the audience himself, that is. which happens in chapter two..

Malachi 2:1 "And now, O ye priests, this commandment is for you."

I could repeat the same as above:
-Some would assume this is talking to Priest only....and this would be understandable, since a specific audience is given. What is less understandable would be why one would change the audience after this line without the author specifying this change. e.g. How would one say verses 2:1 -2:10 was for the priests , but the end of the chapter/book was for someone else.

Verse 12,13:
"12 The Lord will cut off the man that doeth this, the master and the scholar, out of the tabernacles of Jacob, and him that offereth an offering unto the Lord of hosts.
13 And this have ye done again, covering the altar of the Lord with tears, with weeping, and with crying out, insomuch that he regardeth not the offering any more, or receiveth it with good will at your hand."

I believe the Priests were the only ones to offer the offerings so it would be possible for them to be the audience even after verse ten.

Again, I believe these have spiritual meanings....and the spirit is what gives life.

Also, go back to the tithe commandments given by God in the Law.

There were three tithes, but the only one that went to a storehouse was the tithe that the Levites made from the people's tithe that had beenb given to them. The people did not take their tithes to a storehouse, only the Levites did.

Saint Steven · Sep 6, 2018

RaymondG said:
Malachi 1:1 " The burden of the word of the Lord to Israel by Malachi."

-Some would assume this is talking to all of Israel....and this would be understandable, since no specification is given. What is less understandable would be why one would change the audience after this line without the author specifying this change. e.g. How would one say verses 1:1 -1:5 was for Israel, but the end of the chapter/book was for someone else.

Until the author changes the audience himself, that is. which happens in chapter two..

Malachi 2:1 "And now, O ye priests, this commandment is for you."

I could repeat the same as above:
-Some would assume this is talking to Priest only....and this would be understandable, since a specific audience is given. What is less understandable would be why one would change the audience after this line without the author specifying this change. e.g. How would one say verses 2:1 -2:10 was for the priests , but the end of the chapter/book was for someone else.

Verse 12,13:
"12 The Lord will cut off the man that doeth this, the master and the scholar, out of the tabernacles of Jacob, and him that offereth an offering unto the Lord of hosts.
13 And this have ye done again, covering the altar of the Lord with tears, with weeping, and with crying out, insomuch that he regardeth not the offering any more, or receiveth it with good will at your hand."

I believe the Priests were the only ones to offer the offerings so it would be possible for them to be the audience even after verse ten.

Again, I believe these have spiritual meanings....and the spirit is what gives life.

Thanks for the work you have done on this. But I'm still unsure about this. I remembered this NT passage. Is this writte3n to priests?

Matthew 5:23-24
“Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother or sister has something against you, 24 leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to them; then come and offer your gift.

Saint Steven · Sep 6, 2018

RDKirk said:
Also, go back to the tithe commandments given by God in the Law.

There were three tithes, but the only one that went to a storehouse was the tithe that the Levites made from the people's tithe that had beenb given to them. The people did not take their tithes to a storehouse, only the Levites did.

So, can we confirm that the tithe in Malachi chapter three is the priest's tithe? Why wouldn't that tithe also apply to everyone, since it was indirect. Does this mean that the people were giving but the priests weren't?

RaymondG · Sep 6, 2018

Saint Steven said:
Thanks for the work you have done on this. But I'm still unsure about this.

No problem, My desire is that you continue to be unsure until truth is reveal to you....And this cannot be accomplished by one merely believing my words to be true.

Saint Steven said:
I remembered this NT passage. Is this writte3n to priests?

Matthew 5:23-24
“Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother or sister has something against you, 24 leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to them; then come and offer your gift.

This passage is written to the Multitude:
Matthew 5:1-2:
And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him: And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying,...."

Therefore we can know that these words are parable:
Matthew 13:34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:

Mark 4:11 "......but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables....."

So, what does it mean to leave your gift at the alter?

He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.

I believe the alter is not one made of wood and stone. The sacrifice must be brought to the temple in which God dwells....a building not made by hand.

Im not sure if you answered this already...but, assuming you are the give tithes, how do you believe that you give it, and what is it that you give?

RDKirk · Sep 6, 2018

Saint Steven said:
Does this mean that the people were giving but the priests weren't?

Yes.

Saint Steven · Sep 6, 2018

RDKirk said:
Yes.

How can we be certain?

RDKirk · Sep 6, 2018

Saint Steven said:
How can we be certain?

And the priest, the descendant of Aaron, shall be with the Levites when the Levites receive the tithes; and the Levites shall bring up a tithe of the tithes to the house of our God, to the chambers of the storehouse--Nehemiah 10

If a tithe wasn't getting to the storehouse, it was the Levites who weren't getting it there.

So this section begins with a direct address to the Levitical priesthood and when it's talking about tithes going to the storehouse, it's still being addressed to the Levitical priesthood, because they were the ones charged to bring the "tithe of the tithes" to the storehouse.

Samaritan Woman · Sep 9, 2018

majj27 said:
So our pal Kenny C is offering more "special tither powers" in return for you giving him more money? Must need to overhaul one of his jets again.

Thanks for the awesome rip!!

Is it Godly to demand rights as a tither?

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Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner

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