Heaven and marriage/sex and polygamy

JohnClay

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Hi I'm an agnostic and attend church regularly.

For a while I've been aware that it seems that according to Jesus there is no marriage in Heaven (Matthew 22:30, Mark 12:25).

I guess that also means there would be no sex in Heaven. (though there is in the Mormon and Muslim afterlives)

Sorry if I am being offensive but I've heard/read Christians say that sex is a good gift from God. If I was God I wouldn't have made it pleasurable - that way sexual sins would be much less likely. People could still procreate based on rational reasons rather than animal instincts.

Adultery and lust seem to be related to marriage and sex which in turn seem to be based on the commandment to fill the earth and multiply. I guess there would be no lust in Heaven. I wonder if people would have sexual organs in Heaven even though they'd be covered up and unnecessary due to there being no sex or procreation.

I was wondering what Christians think. I guess marriage is a bit of a distraction since it is only for our lifetime and can involve putting a spouse before God (God commands to love him with ALL your heart, mind, soul and strength).

BTW in the Old Testament leading figures usually had multiple wives (and concubines). The advantage of men having many wives rather than women having many husbands is that with the former, it is clear who both parents of the children are. Jesus only seems to allow one man with one woman though (and no remarriage).
 
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Sabertooth

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John Bowen

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Jesus teaching so when the prince of this world comes he has nothing in you is the key.Being attached to something where by it can be used against you .Sex can be to have a family or to have a higher union with your spouse so that you both get balance from each other.Most sex is from a lower drive to take something from somebody and quickly can turn into a addiction. Yeah there is no sex in Heaven we become the bride of Christ instead.Ancient times men died in battles all the time so women had no way to take care of them selves they starve or become harlots so men were allowed to have multiple wives.Same as in Jesus's time so no divorce cause the men would leave their wives when they got old for younger women.
 
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HTacianas

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Hi I'm an agnostic and attend church regularly.

For a while I've been aware that it seems that according to Jesus there is no marriage in Heaven (Matthew 22:30, Mark 12:25).

I guess that also means there would be no sex in Heaven. (though there is in the Mormon and Muslim afterlives)

Sorry if I am being offensive but I've heard/read Christians say that sex is a good gift from God. If I was God I wouldn't have made it pleasurable - that way sexual sins would be much less likely. People could still procreate based on rational reasons rather than animal instincts.

Adultery and lust seem to be related to marriage and sex which in turn seem to be based on the commandment to fill the earth and multiply. I guess there would be no lust in Heaven. I wonder if people would have sexual organs in Heaven even though they'd be covered up and unnecessary due to there being no sex or procreation.

I was wondering what Christians think. I guess marriage is a bit of a distraction since it is only for our lifetime and can involve putting a spouse before God (God commands to love him with ALL your heart, mind, soul and strength).

BTW in the Old Testament leading figures usually had multiple wives (and concubines). The advantage of men having many wives rather than women having many husbands is that with the former, it is clear who both parents of the children are. Jesus only seems to allow one man with one woman though (and no remarriage).

Let me find a place to begin. You're right that Jesus said there is no marriage in heaven, and since no marriage, no sex.

I can't speak to the Mormon view of marriage in heaven because I've never really looked that far into Mormonism. The LDS movement is based in part on the revivalist surge of upstate New York between 1800 to 1850 or so, sort of mingled with what we would today call the "viral" spread of rudimentary astronomy, discussed to an extent by Thomas Paine in Age of Reason. The reason I've never gone that far into Mormonism is that it is, on its face, it is "another gospel" and I don't much care for it.

The Muslim view of heaven stems from the early Church's condemnation of Chiliasm, or Millennialism, the belief in a literal one thousand year reign of Christ on the earth. The Millennialists of the early Church began to use the most carnal descriptions of their idea of Christ's reigning on the earth, including some number of virgins assigned to each man, grape vines growing to unheard of proportions, etc. You'll find that within Islam, anything the Church was against must have true, and anything the Church favored must be false. The Church's condemnation and abrogation of the idea of a Millennial reign of Christ was seen by Mohammed as just another suppression of truth, so its descriptions were adopted into the Islamic view of heaven.

Marriage itself has always been viewed as a "distraction", as you say, within Christianity, with celibacy being held superior to marriage. Jesus said whoever can accept celibacy over marriage should accept it, see Matthew 19:12. Paul stated at length that remaining celibate was better for both men and women, as married men tended to concern themselves with pleasing their wives rather than God, and married women pleasing their husbands more than God, 1 Corinthians 7:32-34.
 
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JohnClay

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If you would surrender to Jesus, you would be able to find out the answer for yourself, one day.
Yeah if I was saved and Christianity is true I'd find out a lot of things... assuming that I didn't backslide in the meantime...

If you don't, your questions will prove to be quite academic. What is the value of researching Heavenly society, if you have no plans to go there?
Well almost everyone I know, including my wife, are Christians. Many of them are interested in this topic. My sisters are quite sure I'll be saved one day. If I had the choice I'd want to go to Heaven but at the moment I am of the opinion that at least some of the Bible is untrue (after writing this book)
 
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JohnClay

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....Yeah there is no sex in Heaven we become the bride of Christ instead....
Interesting point... though I wonder if people would be able to have their own conversations with Jesus simultaneously...
 
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Sabertooth

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If I had the choice I'd want to go to Heaven but at the moment I am of the opinion that at least some of the Bible is untrue (after writing this book)
Those, here, who may offer you such answers will be drawing on that same Bible. How reliable do you expect their answers to be?
 
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JohnClay

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....Marriage itself has always been viewed as a "distraction", as you say, within Christianity, with celibacy being held superior to marriage. Jesus said whoever can accept celibacy over marriage should accept it, see Matthew 19:12...
That talks about "eunuchs" which means their testicles have been removed...

...Paul stated at length that remaining celibate was better for both men and women, as married men tended to concern themselves with pleasing their wives rather than God, and married women pleasing their husbands more than God, 1 Corinthians 7:32-34.
I thought the aim of this all was to fill the earth and multiply... all the kids need is some type of orphanage arrangement. Or perhaps there are good reasons why God would create this whole marriage/sexual pleasure thing.
 
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JohnClay

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Those, here, who may offer you such answers will be drawing on that same Bible. How reliable do you expect their answers to be?
Perhaps it isn't "The Truth" but it could be accurate as far as what Christianity teaches...
 
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HTacianas

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That talks about "eunuchs" which means their testicles have been removed...


I thought the aim of this all was to fill the earth and multiply... all the kids need is some type of orphanage arrangement. Or perhaps there are good reasons why God would create this whole marriage/sexual pleasure thing.

It also applies to a person who abstains from sexual relations. If you read Matthew 19 in its entirety you'll see that it pertains to marriage and celibacy.

The marriage/sexual thing was to ensure that all the creatures would in fact multiply.
 
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HTacianas

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Yeah if I was saved and Christianity is true I'd find out a lot of things... assuming that I didn't backslide in the meantime...


Well almost everyone I know, including my wife, are Christians. Many of them are interested in this topic. My sisters are quite sure I'll be saved one day. If I had the choice I'd want to go to Heaven but at the moment I am of the opinion that at least some of the Bible is untrue (after writing this book)

When you say "untrue" can you give us a definition?
 
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JohnClay

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....The marriage/sexual thing was to ensure that all the creatures would in fact multiply.
Yes the animal instinct makes animals want to do it, but for humans it can be a rational activity - like how people do IVF today. There are good reasons for people to want to multiply - so they can teach their kids to be on their side and help them.
 
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JohnClay

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When you say "untrue" can you give us a definition?
Not factual - something that didn't actually happen... (maybe we can discuss it in my book thread?)
 
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frater_domus

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If you would surrender to Jesus, you would be able to find out the answers for yourself, one day.
If you don't, your questions will prove to be quite academic. What is the value of researching Heavenly society, if you have no plans to go there?
But it was through a very academic and practical approach of a certain minister that I found my way to Christianity, which I previously denied. Some people are more rational-minded than others and need to be reached with reason as opposed to a blanket statement that we ought believe first. This is precisely what this subforum is for, to explore Christianity with those that still seek it. Those who seek are also encourged to ask these questions here.

@JohnClay There is no definitive answer to that matter, as with most heavenly things, as the bible is primarily focused on our salvation. However, one of the most common interpretations, which I also subscribe to, is this:

But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36 nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.

Notice the "given in marriage part". I believe this is a reference to how marriages worked at that time. You see, that we choose our partner based on feelings and actually go on dates is a product of the modern times. Back then, marriges were a business transaction, which a woman was given in exchange for goods.

What Jesus was saying leads me to conclude that marriage as this sort of business transactions will not exist in the afterlife. Whether there will be spiritual marriage, we do not know.
There is also the interpretation that because marriage used to be a business transaction born of necessity and not love, it will not be that way in heaven, because we would have no need to ensure our survival and sufficiency of goods. Some also see it as an allegory or collective statement for business transactions in general.

Now, will there be sex in heaven? To put it bluntly, we do not know. As I mentioned, the bible is about our lives right now, our relationship to God and our salvation. It is neither a science book, nor is it a book that shows us what heaven is like. There are a few general informations about it, but nothing that describes it in general. Why? I suppose it is because it isn't pertinent to our salvation and because it would distract us from our duties right now. Eyes on the price, not the horizon as they say.

If you want to listen to a little something about it, Randy Alcom and John Piper did a short series about it:
What will be familiar to us in heaven
Sports in heaven
Sex in heaven
Traven in heaven

Now, this is by no means a definitive answer. As I said, we simply do not know. However, there are some educated guesses we can make and I find it helpful to listen to the opinion of others and see whether their reasoning is sound ;)

My personal opinion? Well, in heaven, rules are different. The old relations may subsist under new conditions. We need to remember that the reason sex feels good is because of endorphins being released into the body which simulate the feeling of pleasure. However, what you also may notice is that those pleasures are fleeting next to the joy that comes from spiritual pleasures. I would even go as far as to say that if our bodies will be sufficienty different in heaven, then a platonic realtionship will be just as satisfying. Besides, God made man and woman to be together. I am sure that He will not diverge from His idea that easily ;)

But that's just me. To be fair, I rarely think about the afterlife. Got enough things to keep me occupied with here. I'll deal with it as it comes :D

Edit: We must also consider that the people who asked Jesus about marriage were not interested in marriage itself, but were trying to debunk Jesus' idea of the resurrection. Hence they made up a rediculous scenario where a woman was given to seven men. As such, Jesus was saying that the legalistic idea of a "marriage" does not exist in heaven. You will not be given in marriage to anyone as they did back then. It does not reveal information about whether spiritual marriage exists. Jesus addressed the idea of the resurrection and the reality of the afterlife more than the actual question of marriage.
 
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Norbert L

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I guess there would be no lust in Heaven.
It seems to me that there are possible gaps in understanding about Heaven and what goes on there John 3:12. How much of our earthly existence reflects on a heavenly one.

You might want to think about what the author of 2 Peter 2:4 had to say here about what went on up there. I believe that verse doesn't exactly point to lust of the flesh, but it does show that Heaven isn't exactly a tea party either. It's not something completely easy, pleasant and unstressful.
 
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Sanoy

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Christians say "when we are in heaven" but what they really are referring to is our resurrection bodies which will be on the new earth. Afaik there will still be males and females. I think scripture says that there will be no procreation, but I don't think it says there will be no sex. That might still be the case, but the verse from which we would derive that is not clear enough to that effect.

People get that idea because of Matthew 12:25
"For when they rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven."

But Luke is a better historian and captures the full statement in Luke 20:34-36
"The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage, 35but those who are considered worthy to attain to that age and to the resurrection from the dead neither marry nor are given in marriage, 36for they cannot die anymore, because they are equal to angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection."

The section in bold refers to the Jewish concept that angels cannot procreate because they live eternally, while men procreate because they die.

I have often wanted to remove my source of temptations from my brain. One of the church fathers, Origen did as well, and some say he castrated himself, which does nothing in that regard. I feel like my life would so much better without it. However the issue is not actually sex, it is it's constant triggering in society in the way we dress, with makeup, with advertisement, movies, billboards, commercials. If you went to a Mennonite church you would probably never be tempted because they don't dress to temp. In the animal kingdom sex is seasonal, in our's its 24/7 in your face. There are even second temple Jewish writings that blame the oversexualization of make up and clothing to the teaching of fallen angels.
 
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SeventyOne

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Hi I'm an agnostic and attend church regularly.

For a while I've been aware that it seems that according to Jesus there is no marriage in Heaven (Matthew 22:30, Mark 12:25).

I guess that also means there would be no sex in Heaven. (though there is in the Mormon and Muslim afterlives)

Sorry if I am being offensive but I've heard/read Christians say that sex is a good gift from God. If I was God I wouldn't have made it pleasurable - that way sexual sins would be much less likely. People could still procreate based on rational reasons rather than animal instincts.

Adultery and lust seem to be related to marriage and sex which in turn seem to be based on the commandment to fill the earth and multiply. I guess there would be no lust in Heaven. I wonder if people would have sexual organs in Heaven even though they'd be covered up and unnecessary due to there being no sex or procreation.

I was wondering what Christians think. I guess marriage is a bit of a distraction since it is only for our lifetime and can involve putting a spouse before God (God commands to love him with ALL your heart, mind, soul and strength).

BTW in the Old Testament leading figures usually had multiple wives (and concubines). The advantage of men having many wives rather than women having many husbands is that with the former, it is clear who both parents of the children are. Jesus only seems to allow one man with one woman though (and no remarriage).

Sex was given to us as the means by which we fulfill His commands to Adam and Noah to populate the earth. Even in the Millennial kingdom, there will be people repopulating the earth by those means.

The rest of us will have no need to repopulate anything. Hence, no marriage or sex within a marital relationship.
 
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JohnClay

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....But Luke is a better historian and captures the full statement in Luke 20:34-36
"The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage, 35but those who are considered worthy to attain to that age and to the resurrection from the dead neither marry nor are given in marriage, 36for they cannot die anymore, because they are equal to angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection."

The section in bold refers to the Jewish concept that angels cannot procreate because they live eternally, while men procreate because they die....
If there was no fall then I guess there would have been procreation without death...

Genesis 6:4
...The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown...
Like Luke 20:34-36 this also says "sons of God" - apparently some Christians think this could be involving angels - maybe fallen angels.
 
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