Spiritual Snobbery? Denomination Pride?

seeking.IAM

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It is true that different Christian groups hold somewhat different beliefs and follow different doctrines, but I submit that is not the thing that divides us. The thing that divides us is our attitude toward each other. You may call it snobbery or denomination pride. I call it a lack of charity toward fellow Christians who think differently than us. Christ's Church will not be one until its different branches can recognize each other as "just as Christian" and as just as committed to being faithful disciples as the next group. When the RC, EO, UMC, LCMS, CoC, Pentecostals, Anglicans, etc. can pray together, proclaim together that Jesus is Lord, and recognize each other as brothers and sisters in Christ, His church will not be one.
 
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fhansen

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Having been recently baptized, and diving into faith...I've done alot of searching. Not only did I search broad religion (Buddhism, Hinduism) I dove into the Abrahamic religions heavily. Naturally there is alot of division among the 3 religions (Christianity/Judiasm/Islam) but it became apparent to me there's schisms and quarrels even among themselves. An example is all the bloodshed between Sunni vs Shiite muslims

To me, people often wear these badges almost like their college logo or local sports team. "I'm a Catholic - the only original church" or "Sunni Islam is the way, Shiites are the misinformed minorities". It quickly became apparent to me (talking with followers/leaders of Catholic/Protestant/Orthodox/JW/SDA/LDS) that each sect often claims to be the proper or true one. For example, Roman Catholics often believe they are the only original church and Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus ("outside the Church there is no salvation"). The nice Jehova Witness ladies who come by say that salvation is limited to only JW's. Protestants say the Catholic Church became powerful/corrupt and swayed from 1st century doctrine (Indulgence, Saints, Purgatory, Papacy). Seventh Day Adventists say the original sabbath was on Saturday, and Constantine changed worship day to Sunday to for 'Sun' worship (sol invictus).

Having no dog in this fight, I felt instead of to look objectively at what's in the Bible; many often want to side with their specific denomination (even if traditions/practices may not be anywhere in the bible). Did Constantine blend 4th century mythicism with Christianity to eventually result in Saints/Mary/Sunday/Purgatory? Did Luther remove some books in the bible that were in the Septuagint? (He may have attempted to even remove Hebrews/James/Jude/Revalation). And where/how did the Book of Mormon or The Watcher Society claim any canon or exclusivity? How could Jesus have died for only Jehova's Witnesses (a religion founded ~1,800 years later)?

The central point of Christianity, to me, is this: Jesus dying for our sins.
2,000 years later, and some potential questionable doctrines that seem to be nowhere in the bible, we've divided and claim exclusivity to our specific denomination. And why?
We've all read John 3:16. Was the thief on the cross a Mormon, Roman Catholic, Lutheran, or Orthodox? We seemed more focused on who was first, more people on our team, or simply what we were raised with and the traditions that go along with it. My personal conclusion is that organized religion simply doesn't save, but Jesus does! I could be wrong in my assessment, but I hope us Christians can to come together and agree on this: Jesus is our savior. :)
I went through a search similar to your own, with lots of unforeseen twists and turns along the way-and still some surprises later on. I believe we all end up with beliefs based on Scripture, on popular theologies espoused by evangelists, pastors, particular denominations, creeds, confessions, etc.; faith doesn't blossom in a vacuum; those who came before us laid much groundwork in one way or another, and I'm not convinced that objectivity in this matter is so easily discerned, or practiced. And this will hold true regardless of whether or not we place a moniker on our own brand of faith or whether or not we choose one already named.

The advantage that the most ancient churches have, IMHO, is that they have a lived experience from which to draw their teachings, rather than basing them solely on, hopefully, best -or best-guess?- exegesis of a book written millenia ago. So that, for example, all the ancient churches will agree that Jesus is really present in the Eucharist while Sola Scriptura adherents often disagree with each other over this issue. Same for infant baptism and baptismal regeneration in general, both practiced and believed since time immemorial. IDK, just not real easy answers to this question IMO.
 
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Rescued One

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Mormonism is an entirely different religion from Christianity. God brought me out!
They sing about Joseph Smith:

Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!
Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.
Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;
Death cannot conquer the hero again.
https://www.lds.org/music/library/hymns/praise-to-the-man?lang=eng&_r=1

We can't hate anyone who doesn't know our Savior, but we should distinguish between Christianity and false teachings.

Christian peace of God that passeth understaning.jpg
 
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The Barbarian

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The Catholic Church was not the "first Church". There were all kinds of religions and churches before Jesus Christ was born, before He founded His ONE Church, said it was to remain ONE, and promised that ONE Church the fullness of God's truth. But there is no doubt that the Catholic Church is that oONE Church, since it was the only Christian Church on Earth for 1,000 years after the death, resurrection and ascension of Jesus Christ.

As someone else pointed out, Eastern Christians have an equally good claim to be of the original Church. The eastern and western churches are currently separated, but the apostolic succession of both are undeniable.

The point is that even denominations outside these two are properly Christian, and are composed of our brothers and sisters in Christ.
 
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It is true that different Christian groups hold somewhat different beliefs and follow different doctrines, but I submit that is not the thing that divides us. The thing that divides us is our attitude toward each other. You may call it snobbery or denomination pride. I call it a lack of charity toward fellow Christians who think differently than us. Christ's Church will not be one until its different branches can recognize each other as "just as Christian" and as just as committed to being faithful disciples as the next group. When the RC, EO, UMC, LCMS, CoC, Pentecostals, Anglicans, etc. can pray together, proclaim together that Jesus is Lord, and recognize each other as brothers and sisters in Christ, His church will not be one.

I think there is a kind of organic unity between all who are in Christ, which begins the moment God converts a sinner and translates a sinner to the state of grace. Also there is fellowship between us by the Spirit of God, because even though we have our differences, there are no differences in God the Holy Spirit. Quite often differences are a matter of choice and emphasis, and based on a number of variables, differences in background, experiences, knowledge, and spiritual growth. Even differences in softness/hardness of heart, confessed/unconfessed sins. The point is, internal shared differences of individuals and the extent to which people can change, accounts for groups of individuals with differences with other groups of individuals with differences. And yet we who belong to Him are as one in Him.

The love of God, is greater than all attitudes, His love is patient, and through us produces patience with one another. Uh oh, an old hard rock song called "patience" is coming to mind...one of them days.
 
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That thinking may feel good, but we can't allow ourselves to settle for anything less than what God commanded. He either made Peter the prince of the apostles (Pope) or He didn't. He either commanded us to eat His flesh and drink His blood or He didn't. He either established baptism as a sacrament or He didn't. These things matter, and you shouldn't be willing to let someone believe erroneous things without offering them correction. We are talking about our eternal resting places, after all. These are conversations that need to happen.

The parable about who will greatest in Heaven comes to mind. Somewhere I cannot remember the source, but the heathens misunderstood (intentionally or unintentionally?) the Christian sacrament of communion, with accusations of Christians being cannibals! Yeah that would be enough to scare away most "seekers". But that which is flesh is flesh and Spirit is Spirit, and carnal minds are ever set on the flesh, so there we go.
 
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zippy2006

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Having no dog in this fight, I felt instead of to look objectively at what's in the Bible;

If you decided the question by "looking objectively at what's in the Bible" then you already have a dog in the fight, and it's a Protestant dog. Unfortunately the more Protestants look at the Bible the more divided they become, so practically speaking it's a dead end as far as unity is concerned.

...we're divided and claim exclusivity to our specific denomination.

Not really, actually. I can honestly think of very few Christian bodies that claim salvific exclusivity. Catholics certainly don't.

My personal conclusion is that organized religion simply doesn't save, but Jesus does!

Where did you get that one? It's certainly not in the Bible. It sounds to me like the non-denominational tradition. Call it Protestantism version #30,001. :)

I could be wrong in my assessment, but I hope us Christians can to come together and agree on this: Jesus is our savior. :)

The religious landscape is confusing, I'll give you that. And most Christians would agree that Jesus is the savior. But we're moving into the religious skepticism-minimalism waters here, a lowest common denominator game. If the only thing we can say with any assurance is that Jesus is the savior then we've lost the game.

I'd say this: keep your eyes open. You're basically a 'non-denominational' Christian. If that is the tradition you find most compelling then so be it, but there may be more fruitful avenues forward.
 
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Landon Caeli

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Having been recently baptized, and diving into faith...I've done alot of searching. Not only did I search broad religion (Buddhism, Hinduism) I dove into the Abrahamic religions heavily. Naturally there is alot of division among the 3 religions (Christianity/Judiasm/Islam) but it became apparent to me there's schisms and quarrels even among themselves. An example is all the bloodshed between Sunni vs Shiite muslims

To me, people often wear these badges almost like their college logo or local sports team. "I'm a Catholic - the only original church" or "Sunni Islam is the way, Shiites are the misinformed minorities". It quickly became apparent to me (talking with followers/leaders of Catholic/Protestant/Orthodox/JW/SDA/LDS) that each sect often claims to be the proper or true one. For example, Roman Catholics often believe they are the only original church and Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus ("outside the Church there is no salvation"). The nice Jehova Witness ladies who come by say that salvation is limited to only JW's. Protestants say the Catholic Church became powerful/corrupt and swayed from 1st century doctrine (Indulgence, Saints, Purgatory, Papacy). Seventh Day Adventists say the original sabbath was on Saturday, and Constantine changed worship day to Sunday to for 'Sun' worship (sol invictus).

Having no dog in this fight, I felt instead of to look objectively at what's in the Bible; many often want to side with their specific denomination (even if traditions/practices may not be anywhere in the bible). Did Constantine blend 4th century mythicism with Christianity to eventually result in Saints/Mary/Sunday/Purgatory? Did Luther remove some books in the bible that were in the Septuagint? (He may have attempted to even remove Hebrews/James/Jude/Revalation). And where/how did the Book of Mormon or The Watcher Society claim any canon or exclusivity? How could Jesus have died for only Jehova's Witnesses (a religion founded ~1,800 years later)?

The central point of Christianity, to me, is this: Jesus dying for our sins.
2,000 years later, and some potential questionable doctrines that seem to be nowhere in the bible, we've divided and claim exclusivity to our specific denomination. And why?
We've all read John 3:16. Was the thief on the cross a Mormon, Roman Catholic, Lutheran, or Orthodox? We seemed more focused on who was first, more people on our team, or simply what we were raised with and the traditions that go along with it. My personal conclusion is that organized religion simply doesn't save, but Jesus does! I could be wrong in my assessment, but I hope us Christians can to come together and agree on this: Jesus is our savior. :)

Everyone from every denomination and faith is capable of being respectful towards other denominations. Step one is to stop trying to get people to join your religion... If they want to know, the resources are available.

That's the solution, IMO.
 
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Tomm

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My personal conclusion is that organized religion simply doesn't save, but Jesus does! I could be wrong in my assessment, but I hope us Christians can to come together and agree on this: Jesus is our savior. :)

You've fallen into error yourself.
Lord Jesus said "Upon this rock, I will build My Church."
He didn't say, "I won't build My Church, everybody just believe and trust in Me."

Lord Jesus said to Peter, "Feed My Sheeps."
He didn't say, "Don't you feed or worry about My Sheeps, they will come directly to Me."
 
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Great post. How many Claiming Christ as their saviour hold completely unbiblical views?
The RC for starters. If you take the Bible, word for word at face value. Many RC raditions aren't in the Bible, so those would be noniblical.
 
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ItalianStallion

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Remember that truth is absolute while talking about stuff such as Baptism, Communion, Tradition and Scriptures. Keep always learning about God's truth.

Chiming back in. Glad to see the thread had some awesome responses.

In regards to this quote, At what point does tradition override scripture?
For me, the Bible takes precedence over any organized religion or tradition. The 30 Year War or The Crusades are examples of how organized religions can become more than theology.

That being said, (to me) The Bible can be ambiguous. Why did Jesus say 'I and the Father are one'...yet he said ‘the father is greater than I?” And if you hear interpretations on Revelations there’s dozens of experts who vary on what it specifically means.
Having a difference of opinion is normal. In fact, Peter and Paul butted heads.

In addition, many organized religions (seem to) have bouts of paganism in them, so which one(s) have the least. Which ones are most true to the Bible? Diving deeper, why are you a Catholic? Why are you a Baptist or Orthodox? A sports team affiliation is fine, but I feel many people have a 'fan' club attitude for their specific denomination without looking objectively.

It appears churches often bicker about traditions like 'at what age should baptism occur' or 'how hierarchical should our church be' or 'should our religious leaders be celibate'. Some of these topics don't seem to be specified in the Bible..so what's there to even be so divided on? Take a step back as an outsider and look at all the bloodshed for Sunni vs Shiite Islam. Is it really worth fighting over?
2,000 years of Earthly influence is a long time, and at what point can we admit some traditions (or even holidays) are nowhere in the bible? Personally, at least for now, I'm going to take a basic approach and focus on the Bible and a relationship with God/Jesus.

To conclude: I hope my thread didn't ruffle any feathers, and I hope we can take the blinds off & come together on what we agree upon: Jesus.
 
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fhansen

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That being said, (to me) The Bible can be ambiguous. Why did Jesus say 'I and the Father are one'...yet he said ‘the father is greater than I?”
Interesting. Yes, this is a case where Scripture can't tell us what it means to say. And so...the Church spoke. Personally I wouldn't be Christian, and Christianity would have a very different flavor, if Jesus isn't God.
To conclude: I hope my thread didn't ruffle any feathers, and I hope we can take the blinds off & come together on what we agree upon: Jesus.
Yes, provided we know who He is.
 
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AnnaDeborah

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The Orthodox Church wrote scripture.
Not according to 2 Timothy 3v16: All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness

You're basically a 'non-denominational' Christian. If that is the tradition you find most compelling then so be it, but there may be more fruitful avenues forward.
Implication being that non-denom is not the 'best' way?

OP, I've found it interesting to see how responses to your thread have confirmed your original statements! It's also made me realise how blessed I've been to spend so much of my Christian life surrounded by believers who don't judge each other based on labels. I've been a member of a number of different denominations and non-denoms, and there has been real fellowship between all the groups of believers who are trusting in Christ for salvation. We may do things slightly differently as far as externals go, but we work together and fellowship together and agree to disagree on the trimmings.

It reminds me a bit of a friend who has a wedding/celebration cake business - she decorates each cake to reflect the personality of those it is for, but under the icing, everyone gets the same fruitcake!
 
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Danielwright2311

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Having been recently baptized, and diving into faith...I've done alot of searching. Not only did I search broad religion (Buddhism, Hinduism) I dove into the Abrahamic religions heavily. Naturally there is alot of division among the 3 religions (Christianity/Judiasm/Islam) but it became apparent to me there's schisms and quarrels even among themselves. An example is all the bloodshed between Sunni vs Shiite muslims

To me, people often wear these badges almost like their college logo or local sports team. "I'm a Catholic - the only original church" or "Sunni Islam is the way, Shiites are the misinformed minorities". It quickly became apparent to me (talking with followers/leaders of Catholic/Protestant/Orthodox/JW/SDA/LDS) that each sect often claims to be the proper or true one. For example, Roman Catholics often believe they are the only original church and Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus ("outside the Church there is no salvation"). The nice Jehova Witness ladies who come by say that salvation is limited to only JW's. Protestants say the Catholic Church became powerful/corrupt and swayed from 1st century doctrine (Indulgence, Saints, Purgatory, Papacy). Seventh Day Adventists say the original sabbath was on Saturday, and Constantine changed worship day to Sunday to for 'Sun' worship (sol invictus).

Having no dog in this fight, I felt instead of to look objectively at what's in the Bible; many often want to side with their specific denomination (even if traditions/practices may not be anywhere in the bible). Did Constantine blend 4th century mythicism with Christianity to eventually result in Saints/Mary/Sunday/Purgatory? Did Luther remove some books in the bible that were in the Septuagint? (He may have attempted to even remove Hebrews/James/Jude/Revalation). And where/how did the Book of Mormon or The Watcher Society claim any canon or exclusivity? How could Jesus have died for only Jehova's Witnesses (a religion founded ~1,800 years later)?

The central point of Christianity, to me, is this: Jesus dying for our sins.
2,000 years later, and some potential questionable doctrines that seem to be nowhere in the bible, we've divided and claim exclusivity to our specific denomination. And why?
We've all read John 3:16. Was the thief on the cross a Mormon, Roman Catholic, Lutheran, or Orthodox? We seemed more focused on who was first, more people on our team, or simply what we were raised with and the traditions that go along with it. My personal conclusion is that organized religion simply doesn't save, but Jesus does! I could be wrong in my assessment, but I hope us Christians can to come together and agree on this: Jesus is our savior. :)

Every thing you wrote is part and partial of being a Christian, to reject this world and to be rejected.

If you follow Jesus and only Jesus guess what?

You will be rejected by most churches and people and this world, the Devil will make sure of that, its a fact, a proven fact I have proved over and over again. I tested it as a real life test.

Every single time I fell away from God and Jesus, the world loved me, forgave me, wanted to be with me, to support me. And this was every time I tested it.

But every time I come back to Jesus and his teachings and words of love and forgiveness I am hated, thrown out and not supported and made fun of.

This proves the power of Jesus.
 
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angeltrue

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When they dropped you they did you a great favor.
Thank you.
The Bible does teach that this will happen, the coming together of Christians putting doctrine aside will be the down fall of many, just to come together, that is what is happening in our world today.

Revelation 13:12
And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

Only "Christians" call on the name of the LORD

Matthew 7 King James Version (KJV)
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Doctrine matters says the Bible and to put it aside will lead to the destruction of many.
Proverbs 4:2
For I give you good doctrine, forsake ye not my law.
Matthew 7:28
And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:
Matthew 15:9
But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Matthew 16:12
Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.
(can we substitute the words "the fathers of the church", or the "original church" in this statement instead of "Pharisees and of the Sadducees")
Matthew 15:3
But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
Mark 7:9
And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

So coming together and denying the doctrines of Jesus Christ we have been warned is not a good thing.

May GOD bless you in your search
Yes the one world religion is associated with the end times. I am just beginning to study this. I read that Rick Warren is mixing Christianity with Islam. This type of "unity" should never be.
 
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angeltrue

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Every thing you wrote is part and partial of being a Christian, to reject this world and to be rejected.

If you follow Jesus and only Jesus guess what?

You will be rejected by most churches and people and this world, the Devil will make sure of that, its a fact, a proven fact I have proved over and over again. I tested it as a real life test.

Every single time I fell away from God and Jesus, the world loved me, forgave me, wanted to be with me, to support me. And this was every time I tested it.

But every time I come back to Jesus and his teachings and words of love and forgiveness I am hated, thrown out and not supported and made fun of.

This proves the power of Jesus.
1 John 3:13-24 King James Version (KJV)
13 Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.

14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.

15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.

17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?

18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
 
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angeltrue

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For what it's worth, this is one of the main reasons I don't regularly attend any church.
My husband and I tried a lot of churches before we found the one we're at. The pastor is the easiest to relate to yet holds to the bible. We wandered in the 'spiritual desert' for 40 years before finding this church. It's not a progressive type church, it's mostly older people following an older-type faith. I've never felt at 'home' like I have in this church. Still - we're not involved and can only get out when I can muster the strength so we basically study the bible on our own.

I never liked church politics and don't want to be in a church that practices them. They cease being Christ's church and become a worldly institution.
 
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angeltrue

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I went through a search similar to your own, with lots of unforeseen twists and turns along the way-and still some surprises later on. I believe we all end up with beliefs based on Scripture, on popular theologies espoused by evangelists, pastors, particular denominations, creeds, confessions, etc.; faith doesn't blossom in a vacuum; those who came before us laid much groundwork in one way or another, and I'm not convinced that objectivity in this matter is so easily discerned, or practiced. And this will hold true regardless of whether or not we place a moniker on our own brand of faith or whether or not we choose one already named.

The advantage that the most ancient churches have, IMHO, is that they have a lived experience from which to draw their teachings, rather than basing them solely on, hopefully, best -or best-guess?- exegesis of a book written millenia ago. So that, for example, all the ancient churches will agree that Jesus is really present in the Eucharist while Sola Scriptura adherents often disagree with each other over this issue. Same for infant baptism and baptismal regeneration in general, both practiced and believed since time immemorial. IDK, just not real easy answers to this question IMO.
You mentioned baptism. I had my older two children baptized Catholic because that was the faith that I inherited. We went through a move and never had our 3rd child baptized. This has always bothered me at the back of my mind because I haven't studied baptism. Do you think that I should urge her to be baptized? She never baptized my grandchild either. (I'm weak on this subject).
 
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