IS IT SIN TO BREAK THE 10 COMMANDMENTS? (Yep!)

Dan the deacon · Sep 3, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
Indeed, the Jews also had to make up thing about Jesus in order to find an excuse to put him on the cross.

No they had Him put to death for telling the truth. They didn't make it up. They just didn't believe Him. He said who He was and they saw that truth as blasphomy.

Dave L · Sep 3, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
If you believe something is a false accusation then prove it with scriptue. You were provided God's WORD in the linked post that show the OLD COVENANT is both the 10 commandments and the MOSAIC BOOK OF THE COVENANT that make up the OLD COVANANT.

If you cannot then how is anything already said a false accusation or not true? We must believe the WORD of God over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God.

I prove the Ten Commandments were the Old Covenant. Again, please read carefully.

“And He (God) wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.” Exodus 34:28

“And He declared unto you His covenant, which He commanded you to perform, even the Ten Commandments.” Deuteronomy 4:13:

“When I was gone up into the mount to receive the tables of stone, even the tables of the covenant.” Deuteronomy 9:9:

“So I turned and came down from the mount . . . and the two tables of the covenant were in my two hands.” Deuteronomy 9:15:

“There was nothing in the ark save the two tables of stone which Moses put there at Horeb, when Jehovah made a covenant with the children of Israel, when they came out of the land of Egypt,” I Kings 8:9

“And there have I set a place for the ark, wherein is the covenant of Jehovah, which he made with our fathers, when he brought them out of the land of Egypt.” I Kings 8:21

The second of these two texts is repeated in II Chronicles 6:11.

Consider “The ark of the covenant” that held the Ten Commandments (Numbers 10:33; Jeremiah 3:16, and other places)

Now consider Jeremiah and Hebrews saying the New Covenant replaced them:

“Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, That I will make a new covenant With the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers In the day that I took them by the hand To bring them out of the land of Egypt; Which my covenant they brake, Although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, And write it in their hearts; And will be their God, And they shall be my people.” (Jeremiah 31:31–33)

“For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.” (Hebrews 8:7–13)

Dan the deacon · Sep 3, 2018

Dave L said:
I prove the Ten Commandments were the Old Covenant. Again, please read carefully.

“And He (God) wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.” Exodus 34:28

“And He declared unto you His covenant, which He commanded you to perform, even the Ten Commandments.” Deuteronomy 4:13:

“When I was gone up into the mount to receive the tables of stone, even the tables of the covenant.” Deuteronomy 9:9:

“So I turned and came down from the mount . . . and the two tables of the covenant were in my two hands.” Deuteronomy 9:15:

“There was nothing in the ark save the two tables of stone which Moses put there at Horeb, when Jehovah made a covenant with the children of Israel, when they came out of the land of Egypt,” I Kings 8:9

“And there have I set a place for the ark, wherein is the covenant of Jehovah, which he made with our fathers, when he brought them out of the land of Egypt.” I Kings 8:21

The second of these two texts is repeated in II Chronicles 6:11.

Consider “The ark of the covenant” that held the Ten Commandments (Numbers 10:33; Jeremiah 3:16, and other places)

Now consider Jeremiah and Hebrews saying the New Covenant replaced them:

“Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, That I will make a new covenant With the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers In the day that I took them by the hand To bring them out of the land of Egypt; Which my covenant they brake, Although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, And write it in their hearts; And will be their God, And they shall be my people.” (Jeremiah 31:31–33)

“For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.” (Hebrews 8:7–13)

I would say you proved it.

Bible Highlighter · Sep 3, 2018

discipler7 said:
2KINGS.2:11 = 11 Then it happened, as they continued on and talked, that suddenly a chariot of fire appeared with horses of fire, and separated the two of them; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

I believe confusion arises on this point because people do not understand that there are:

Three Heavens

The Scripture mentions three heavens (2 Corinthians 12:2), not just one!

The First Heaven:

The first heaven is earth's atmosphere where birds fly (Genesis 1:20, Jeremiah 4:25;34:20,Lamentations 4:19, Zephaniah 1:3). One of the Hebrew words for 'heaven' is shamayim. This same word is translated as 'sky' in the Scripture, as can be seen by comparing Genesis 7:3, "fowls also of the air," with Genesis 7:23, "fowl of the heaven." The word 'sky' and 'heaven' are used interchangeably from the same Hebrew word (Psalm 8:8). So the first heaven is synonymous with 'heights' or 'elevations.'

Here are other examples to illustrate the first heaven. Exodus 19:20 says the Lord was on top of Mount Sinai when he called Moses up there, and God describes Mount Sinai as 'heaven' (Exodus 20:22, Deuteronomy 4:36). Here, everything above the ground is called 'heaven'.

Another example of the first heaven is in Amos 9:1-3, where God states that at the time of this judgment, nobody will be able to flee away (verse 1), even "though they climb up to heaven" (verse 2). This "heaven" is defined in the next verse, verse 3, as climbing to the top of Mount Carmel.

Another example is where the Scripture speaks of the "dew of heaven" (Genesis 27:28,39,Deuteronomy 33:28, Daniel 4:15-33; 5:21). The first heaven, from which dew comes, means the atmosphere, where the clouds and the wind roam. Therefore, everything above the ground is called 'heaven."

Another Hebrew word for the first heaven is 'shachaq.' This same word for heaven (Psalm 89:6,37) is also translated as 'sky' or 'skies' (Deuteronomy 33:26; Job 37:18; Psalm 18:11), and as 'clouds' (Job 35:5; 36:28; Psalm 36:5; 68:34, Pro. 3:20; 8:28).

The Second Heaven:

The second heaven is outer space where the planets and stars exist (Genesis 1:14-17; 15:5;22:17;26:4, Deuteronomy 1:10; 17:3; Psalm 8:3, Jeremiah 8:2; Matthew 24:29). Usually the term "host of heaven" or "firmament of the heaven" is used to describe this second heaven.

The Third Heaven:

The third heaven is literally called "the third heaven" in 2 Corinthians 12:2. This third heaven is what Christ calls his "Father's house" (John 14:2), and both Christ and the Apostle Paul calls it "paradise" (Luke 23:43, 2 Corinthians 12:2-4, Revelation 2:7). This is where God and the heavenly sanctuary exist (1 Peter 3:22). This third heaven is also known as the "heaven of heavens" (Deuteronomy 10:14; 1 Kings 8:27, 2 Chronicles 2:6; 6:18, Nehemiah 9:6, Psalms 148:4), "The heavenly Jerusalem" (Galatians 4: 26; Hebrews 12:22; Revelation 3:12), the "kingdom of heaven" (Matthew 25:1, James 2:5), the "eternal kingdom" (2 Peter 1:11), the "eternal inheritance" (1 Peter. 1:4,Hebrews 9:15), and the "better country" (Hebrews 11:14,16). The fact that there are more than one 'heaven' can be shown by Psalm 115:16, "The heaven, even the heavens, are the LORD'S." There are obviously two different 'heavens' being addressed in this one verse.

Since Elijah could not have gone to the heaven of God's throne, then to which heaven did he go? He was not taken to God's heavenly throne (as some imagine). He was actually taken into this earth's atmosphere, the first heaven. There could be no whirlwind in any other place but in the atmosphere surrounding this earth.

You said:
HEBREWS.12: = 22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, 23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.

It says in Hebrews 12:23,

"To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven," (Hebrews 12:23) (KJV).

It says they are written in Heaven.... meaning their names are written there.

For the NIV says, "to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven."

In other words, it does not mean they are in Heaven. It is just means their names are written there.

You said:
Anyway, today's Jews still believe that they will go to heaven by keeping Moses Law, similar to beggar Lazarus, Moses, Elijah and other Old Testament Jews. Today's Jews reject the New Covenant or New Testament.

The Jews got many things wrong (Including who their Messiah was).

Source used for my reply to you on 2 Kings 2:11:
Elijah, Enoch, and Moses
Important Note: Although I quoted part of this article to help explain the three heavens, I do not agree with their interpretation of on Enoch. I believe Enoch was translated or spiritually taken by God and did not see death (as the Scriptures say). So not all the views expressed at this website reflect my views on the Scriptures.

discipler7 · Sep 3, 2018

FatalHeart said:
... but by creating a way to God before Jesus, you are implying his blood as entirely unnecessary and the Messiah and the whole point of the blood sacrifice the Holy Spirit was pointing to becomes mute.

1PETER.3:19 & 4:6 = ... 3:19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who formerly were disobedient, .... &
4:6 For this reason the gospel was preached also to those who are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

Bible Highlighter · Sep 3, 2018

discipler7 said:
Not really true.

Look, friend. I gave you the verses. It is up to you to show me how they do not say what they plainly mean. If you cannot do that, then you are either ignoring them or you are making them say something that that they really don't say plainly. It is up to you to prove to me your belief here. So far, I am not seeing that.

You said:
Besides substance/drug addicts or dependents, those suffering from Social phobia, Asperger's Syndrome and other mental disorders could not "love your neighbor", eg by feeding the hungry, giving drink to the thirsty, taking in strangers, clothing the naked and visiting sick prisoners.

Jesus is obviously not talking to people who are not capable or able to do such things. For it is written,

10 "His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry.
11 But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given.
12 For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb..." (Matthew 19:10-12).

So Jesus is commanding those men who are able to do what He commands (by them submitting to His Word and by them allowing the Lord to work through them to obey).

You said:
....... Your blanket statement about salvation and the Old Testament law of "loving your neighbor" is "discriminating" against a minority of Gentiles from being saved from hell just because they are "not loving your neighbor", which statement is not very different from the behavior of the self-righteous Pharisees and Judaizers = they were stumbling blocks to salvation.

It is good to "love your neighbor" but not a must for salvation. Only faith in Jesus Christ is a must for salvation, especially for some sad and weak Gentile Christians.

Well, the Pharisees did not keep God's Word. This is the problem Jesus had with them and it was not because they just did not have a sole belief on Him alone (while they ignored their sin). Jesus was upset with the Pharisees because they ignored the weightier matters of the Law (which was sin).

For we read Jesus say of the Pharisees:

"But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone." (Luke 11:42).

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, ..." (Matthew 23:23).

The Pharisees ignored the weightier matters of the Law like love, faith, justice, and mercy. Jesus called them hypocrites because of this. Jesus did not get them to focus on believing on Him while they ignored their sin. If that was the case, then we would never read about how Jesus attacked the Pharisees false way of ignoring the weightier matters of the Law like: "the love of God."

"But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?" (1 John 3:17).

Can a person be saved and not have the love of God in Him?

For keeping God's Word is how we perfect the love of God in our life and it is the assurance that we know the Lord.

"But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him." (1 John 2:5).

Can a person be saved without knowing or having the Lord in their life?

No. Most certainly not. A person is not saved if they do not know the Lord or if they do not have the Lord living in them. For the Bible says,

"He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life." (1 John 5:12).

"And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." (John 17:3).

Conclusion:

"Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren." (1 John 3:16).

"Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him." (1 John 3:15).

discipler7 · Sep 3, 2018

Jason0047 said:
Look, friend. I gave you the verses. It is up to you to show me how they do not say what they plainly mean. If you cannot do that, then you are either ignoring them or you are making them say something that that they really don't say plainly. It is up to you to prove to me your belief here. So far, I am not seeing that.

Look, friend. I gave you the verses. It is up to you to show me how they do not say what they plainly mean. If you cannot do that, then you are either ignoring them or you are making them say something that that they really don't say plainly. It is up to you to prove to me your belief here. So far, I am not seeing that.

Seems, you are the one ignoring the verses that I gave you.

1CORINTHIANS.5:5 says that even an unrepentant Gentile Christian incest-sinner can be saved from hell, even though his flesh would soon be destroyed by Satan, ie as long as he kept the faith of Christ Jesus until death. In actual case, he repented and so his flesh was not destroyed by Satan or he did not die young. In contrast, you implied that the unrepentant Christian incest-sinner and other sinners cannot remain saved, even though they may still have faith in Christ.

LUKE.23:43 says that a Jewish robber who was crucified next to Jesus Christ was saved from hell through faith in Jesus Christ. Did he feed the hungry, give drink to the thirsty, clothe the naked, take in strangers, visit sick prisoners or "love your neighbor" after he was saved from hell.? According to your standards, he should not be saved from hell or could not remain saved since he did not "love your neighbor". Jesus says otherwise, eg convicted murderers on Death Row can still be saved.

It is a bit late for you to now qualify your earlier statement "Not loving your neighbor is a salvation issue" as not applying to those who could not "love your neighbor" because the damage has likely already been done, ie stumbling weak Gentile Christians who happened to read your statement. They may be now desperately trying to feed the hungry, give drink to the thirsty, clothe the naked, take in strangers, visit sick prisoners and "love your neighbor", in order to remain saved.
.

JOHN.3:16 clearly says "16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."

People are saved by believing in Jesus Christ. Full stop.
....... People are not saved by the works of keeping the Law. After the era of Christ, the works of the Law could only bring earthly blessings from God, eg a good, peaceful, joyful, loving and long life on earth, ie not heavenly blessings of everlasting life in the kingdom of heaven.

Believers in Christ should have God's laws written on their hearts and minds(HEBREWS.10:15), thus walking in the Spirit and fulfilling the Law(GALATIANS.5:16-26), eg "love your neighbor". This is true for most Jewish Christians who as former Jews, had kept God's laws from childhood; but not true for most Gentile Christians who as former Gentiles, did not keep God's laws from childhood. So, it is not difficult for Gentile Christians to fall into sins/law-breaking or to carry a lot of sinful/law-broken baggage with them when they came to Christ.
....... Even if some Gentile Christians ignorantly commit sins or remain in sins/law-broken = eg their flesh will be destroyed by Satan = sufferings, they will still be saved as long as they keep their faith in Christ until death, like suffering Job.(cf; JOB.2:9 = curse God/Jesus and die = Job's wife had likely lost faith)

Salvation can be lost by losing faith after sinning/law-breaking. Salvation is not lost just by sinning/law-breaking.
....... Salvation can also be lost by renouncing the faith after being persecuted or by departing from the faith after following false doctrines like cults/heresies.

I likened you to the self-righteous Pharisees and Judaizers who were stumbling blocks to salvation. How come you only criticized the Pharisees and not the Judaizers.?

Tutorman · Sep 3, 2018

Dave L said:
Paul was not under any of the Law. So why are you? And why do you try to place others under the Law?

Exactly. The SDA wishes us under to be the law of sin and death but Christians are under the law of grace of Christ.

Tutorman · Sep 3, 2018

Dan the deacon said:
Sure you can. One can come to Christ without ever reading the OT. The OT is history showing us why God saw need to send us Christ.

One great example is CS Lewis he got on the bus an atheist and got off the bus a Christian, no OT needed

Tutorman · Sep 3, 2018

@LoveGodsWord I want to apologize for getting mad and say things on this site I should not have said. I do not believe breaking the ten commandments are a sin and I do not believe Christians are under the heavy burden of obeying every jot and tittle of the ten commandments. I believe Christians are under the law of Grace and that Christians are not under the law of sin and death and that we are free from the law of sin and death. Here some verses since you venerate the Bible Romans 4:15, Romans 5:20, Romans 6:14, Romans 7:1-6

Bruce Leiter · Sep 3, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
Hi All,

Just hoping to hear your thoughts on if you believe it is still sin to break God's 10 Commandments?

Let's make it clear from the beginning however, NONE are saved by the works of the law (keeping God's 10 Commandments). We are only saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast (Ephesians 2:8).

The purpose of God's LAW is to only give us a KNOWLEDGE of GOOD AND EVIL; SIN and RIGHTOUESNESS (Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; Psalms 119:172) to lead us to the foot of the cross so we can see ourselves as sinners in need of a Saviour (Galatians 3:22-25). Our righteousness is be faith in God's WORD not in anything that we can do (Romans 3:25; Philippians 3:9). We need to be Born again to LOVE and LOVE is the fulfilling of God's LAW in that heart of those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW the WORDS of GOD (1 John 3:3-9; Romans 13:8-10; Hebrews 8:10-12)

................

Here is my thoughts. I believe if we disregard any of God's WORD then it is SIN to us because it is written, to him who knows to do good and does not do it to him it is sin (James 4:17). So, if the 10 Commandments are God's WORD. Then I believe it is sin to break them.

Here are some scriptures I have found in the OLD and NEW TESTAMENT saying that breaking ANY of God's 10 Commandments is SIN.

................

SIN IN THE OLD TESTAMENT BREAKING THE 10 COMMANDMENTS (Summarized)

God said in Genesis 4:7 to Cain when he was angry because he did not worship God in his appointed way that by doing this it was sin. Jesus say the same in Matthew 15:3-9 that if we follow and teachings of men that break the commandments of God we are not following God. Mankind was destroyed by a flood because of sin (Genesis 6:5-7).

Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed because of sin (Genesis 18:20). Jacob knew about sin when he complained to Laben when he left with his daughters (Genesis 31:36).

When Potiphar’s wife came to Joseph with the aim of committing adultery, Joseph knew it was sin and protested saying how then can I do this great wickedness, and sin against God? (Genesis 39:9).

God said that if Israel was not to make a covenant with the other nations and serve their god's it would be sin (Exodus 23:33). When Moses was delayed on the Mount with God the children of ISRAEL made an Idol and worshipped it breaking God's 1st and 2nd commandment (Exodus 20:3-5). Moses said to them after he returned, you have sinned a great sin: and now I will go up unto the LORD; perhaps I shall make an atonement for your sin (Exodus 32:30; Deuteronomy 9:16-18). Moses said to Aaron that by making an idol for the people to worship that it was a great sin (Exodus 32:21; 30). God would punish the children of Israel for their sin of Idol worship (Exodus 32:34).

God said to Moses in reference to breaking the 10 Commandments; Whosoever has sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book (Exodus 32:33).

God said that if Israel was not to make a covenant with the other nations and serve their god's it would be sin (Exodus 23:33). Joshua says stealing is sin (Joshua 7:11). Achan knew when he was caught stealing that he sinned (Joshua 7:20).

When God's people forsake God to worship other God's, they also confess that they had sinned in breaking God's commandments (Judges 10:10;15). Samuel made atonement for God's people when they wanted to return to God confessing that they had sinned after they worshipped other Gods breaking God's 1st and 2nd commandments (1 Samuel 7:5; 12:10; Exodus 20:2-5).

King Saul wanted to kill David, but Jonathon spoke good of David saying to him no to sin against David by killing him (1 Samuel 19:4). David cut the skirt of King Saul in the cave and said to him that he could have killed him if he wanted to but did not sin against him by sparing his life (1 Samuel 24:11). King Saul replied that in wanting to kill David he had sinned (1 Samuel 26:21).

When David became king he desired Bathsheba who was another man’s wife and organized for her husband Uriah the Hitite to be sent to the front line of battle to be killed. God sent Nathan to David and David confessed in doing this that he had sinned in breaking God's 6th and 7th Commandment (Exodus 20:13:14). David confessed that he had sinned to breaking God's LAW (1 Samuel 12:13).

Now we can also go through all the evil Kings of Israel that sinned against God by following and worshipping other Gods which is also defined as sin in God's WORD but there would be too many scriptures (2 Kings 17:7). God testified that they served other Gods and idols sending them prophets to warn them of their sins (2 Kings 17:12-13; 16-17). We are also told that King Manasseh also broke God's 6th commandment and killed more innocent people then most others testifying that by doing this he had sinned (2 Kings 16:17). God continued to send prophets to warn his people of the consequences of sin (Nehemiah 9:30). God's people continued in their sins forsaking God's LAW (10 commandments) and in doing so God left them and Israel were overthrown and led into captivity to the other nations because they departed from God serving other God's and idols. Nehemiah knew this and prayed to God confessing their sins (Nehemiah 1:6-9). God's people continued to sin against God by worshipping other Gods despite the warning of Jeremiah (Jeremiah 44:18-23). In despite of God's Word teaching that God's people had forsaken the 10 commandments and sinned against God, going into captivity, God promised he would bring them back when they returned to him and heal them from their sins of breaking his commandments (Ezekiel 37:22-23).

Hosea testified by the Word of the Lord that God's people by making idols and worshipping other god's, lying, stealing, killing, committing adultery would receive the judgments of God because they had sinned by departing from the 10 Commandments (Hosea 4:1-19).

The word of the Lord came to Zephaniah saying that all those who continue in sin by worshipping other God's and breaking his commandments will be destroyed off the land because they have sinned against God (Zephaniah 1:2-17).

................

Yep pretty clear that in the OLD TESTAMENT if God's people broke any of the 10 Commandments it was SIN.

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Now it is interesting all the 10 Commandments are repeated in the NEW TESTAMENT. Is it still sin in the NEW TESTAMENT to break and of God's 10 Commandments?

NEW TESTAMENT SCRIPTURES

JAMES 2:8-12
[8], If ye fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself, ye do well: [9], But if ye have respect to persons, YOU COMMIT SIN, AND ARE CONVINCED OF THE LAW AS TRANSGRESSORS.
[10], For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
[11] For he that said, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, said also, DO NOT KILL. Now if thou commit NO ADULTERY, yet if thou KILL, YOU ARE BECOME A TRANSGRESSOR OF GOD'S LAW

Yep, James is pretty clear if we brake ANY of God's Law (10 commandments) then we are a TRANSGRESSOR of God's LAW and commit SIN. James quotes two of the 10 Commandments saying that if we break them we commit sin v9 that are summed up in the 2nd great commandments of LOVE to God and LOVE to our neighbour in v11. Maybe you missed that one?

ROMANS 7:7 [7], What shall we say then? is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I HAD NOT KNOWN SIN, BUT BY THE LAW: for I had not known lust, EXCEPT THE LAW HAD SAID YOU SHALL NOT COVET.

Well here we have Paul in agreement with James and John also telling us that he did not know what sin was without God's 10 Commandments. SIN is breaking God's commandments and Paul uses the 10th commandment as an example of breaking any of God's LAW (10 commandments) = SIN (Exodus 20:17)

links to...

1 JOHN 3:4 [4] Whosoever commits SIN transgresses also the law: for SIN is the transgression of the law.

John is saying the same thing as James and Paul and states that if we TRANSGRESS God's LAW then we commit SIN because SIN IS THE TRANSGRESSION OF GOD'S LAW. So it is very clear that SIN is breaking ANY of God's LAW (10 commandments). We will look at the chapter context John uses v15 of MURDER as an example of sin which is God's 6th Command of the 10.

God's WORD in both the OLD and NEW TESTAMENT says very clearly that if we break ANY of the 10 Commandments it is indeed SIN and we become guilty before God if we are CONTINUING in KNOWN UNREPETANT SIN.

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Ok my friends. What are your thoughts?

Is it SIN to break any of the 10 COMMANDMENTS that were written and spoken by GOD?

May God bless you all as you seek him through his WORD

It seems to me that your question brings up the further question, what must we obey in the Old Testament and what don't we need to? On the one hand, Jesus did fulfill the law perfectly but didn't do away with it (Matthew 5:17-20). On the other hand, he nailed the "written code" of the law to his cross (Colossians 2:13, 14). The way to understand these passages is to see that according to 2 Corinthians 3:1-6, Jesus did away with the outward, national form of the law with his death. For example, the 10 commandments' references to living long in the promised land (for national Israel) and the Sabbath day (the church's Lord's Day succeeds the Sabbath because of Jesus' teaching that he is Lord of the Sabbath).

In other words, the intentions and principles of the whole Old Testament including the law continue into the New Testament, while the outward form of it has been done away through Jesus' life, death, and resurrection.

Saint Steven · Sep 3, 2018

Bruce Leiter said:
It seems to me that your question brings up the further question, what must we obey in the Old Testament and what don't we need to? On the one hand, Jesus did fulfill the law perfectly but didn't do away with it (Matthew 5:17-20). On the other hand, he nailed the "written code" of the law to his cross (Colossians 2:13, 14). The way to understand these passages is to see that according to 2 Corinthians 3:1-6, Jesus did away with the outward, national form of the law with his death. For example, the 10 commandments' references to living long in the promised land (for national Israel) and the Sabbath day (the church's Lord's Day succeeds the Sabbath because of Jesus' teaching that he is Lord of the Sabbath).

In other words, the intentions and principles of the whole Old Testament including the law continue into the New Testament, while the outward form of it has been done away through Jesus' life, death, and resurrection.

When the Apostle Paul saw the sort of teaching that the fine fellow who is the originator of this topic is bringing, he asked the churches in Galatia, "Who has bewitched you?" (Galatians 3:1)

The Apostle Peter had a similar reaction when he said, "Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear?" - Acts 15:10

Even Christ is easily misunderstood in the verse you referred to. He explains himself after the resurrection. Compare these two scriptures and ask yourself, "How does one abolish a Prophet?"

Matthew 5:17
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

Luke 24:44
He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.”

LoveGodsWord · Sep 3, 2018

Hi Brother Bruce, great to meet you here

.

Some comments provided below for your consideration.

Bruce Leiter said:
It seems to me that your question brings up the further question, what must we obey in the Old Testament and what don't we need to? On the one hand, Jesus did fulfill the law perfectly but didn't do away with it (Matthew 5:17-20).

Bruce, great questions and comments. From my little understanding of the scriptures. Many make the mistake of not understanding what the OLD COVENANT is. If you do not understand what the OLD COVENANT is how can you understand what the NEW COVENANT is right?

The scriptures teach that the OLD COVENANT included both God's LAW (10 Commandments [words] * Exodus 34:28, and the Mosaic BOOK of the covenant (Exodus 24:7). Both God's 10 Commandments and the Mosaic book of the covenant held a different purpose in the OLD COVENANT. God's 10 Commandments were to give us a KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN AND RIGHTOUESNESS (Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; James 2:9-11; 1 John 3:4; Psalms 119:172) while the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT held the laws for remission [FORGIVENESS] of sin if God's 10 commandments were broken [Leviticus 16]. Both were housed with the ARK of the COVENANT [HOUSE OF THE COVENANT] that collectively made up the OLD COVENANT (Deuteronomy 10:5; Deuteronomy 31:26).

Some try to make up the story that God's 10 Commandments alone are the OLD COVENANT. This is only telling half the story and causes confusion as to what laws are being referred to in the NEW TESTAMENT and why many do not understand what the NEW COVENANT is.

I will be doing a more detailed scripture response to someone else shortly on what makes up the OLD COVENANT if your interested it will be posted soon.

Many disregard the OLD TESTAMENT scriptures for the NEW TESTAMENT scriptures alone, when it is the OLD TESTAMENT scriptures that unlock the meaning of the NEW TESTAMENT scriptures. In the days of Jesus and the Apostles the OLD TESTAMENT was their bible. I believe that you cannot understand the NEW TESTAMENT without the OLD TESTAMENT. The OLD TESTAMENT is the KEY to understanding the NEW TESTAMENT and the COVENANTS. The OLD TESTAMENT bears witness to the NEW and today BOTH the OLD and NEW TESTAMENT scripture together make up the WORD of GOD.

Bruce Leiter said:
On the other hand, he nailed the "written code" of the law to his cross (Colossians 2:13, 14).

Indeed Colossians 2 is talking about the laws in "ORDINANCES" v14 that have been nailed to the Cross. This is the context in v11-17, the word meaning here of ORDINANCES in v14 in GREEK is δόγμα Dogma meaning civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical laws or decrees. These are the Shadow laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT that were fulfilled and pointed to Jesus as our Savior and God's plan of salvation for mankind. It is not a reference to the 10 commandments.

If your interested I have spent some times studying this and finding what Paul is referring to linking both the OLD and NEW TESTAMENT scriptures?

COLOSSIANS 2 from the OLD AND NEW TESTAMENT linked CLICK ME (PARTS 1-6).

Bruce Leiter said:
The way to understand these passages is to see that according to 2 Corinthians 3:1-6, Jesus did away with the outward, national form of the law with his death. For example, the 10 commandments' references to living long in the promised land (for national Israel) and the Sabbath day (the church's Lord's Day succeeds the Sabbath because of Jesus' teaching that he is Lord of the Sabbath).

Happy to comment further on this latter but for now consider the above.

Bruce Leiter said:
In other words, the intentions and principles of the whole Old Testament including the law continue into the New Testament, while the outward form of it has been done away through Jesus' life, death, and resurrection.

Absolutely this is the NEW COVENANT promise fortold in Jeremiah 31:31-32 and Hebrews 8:10-12 and why LOVE is the fulfilling of the law in those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts here Bruce. Great post and comments.

May God bless you as you seek him through his WORD :wave:

LoveGodsWord · Sep 3, 2018

Saint Steven said:
You are obviously copying and pasting from a database of some sort. And providing links to what? How can you deny it?

Because I am not. I study God's WORD for myself.

LoveGodsWord · Sep 3, 2018

Saint Steven said:
If that was true, why would the Apostle write this? See scripture below.
Who would WANT to be under the condemnation of the law?

Galatians 4:21
Tell me, you who want to be under the law, are you not aware of what the law says?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

- If being under the law is to be under its condemnation;
what did the Apostle do to become like those under the law?

- What did the Apostle do to become like one not having the law?

- The Apostle described himself as not being under the law,
not free from God’s law, but under Christ’s law. Three different laws.

1 Corinthians 9:20-22
To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. 21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some.

Hello Steve,

There is NO "If that were true" as God's WORD says in ROMANS 2:4-13; and ROMANS 3:9-20; Galatians 3:22-25 BELIEVERS are not "UNDER THE LAW" because they have repented and confessed their sins and by faith in God's WORD have been forgiven.

Only those who break God's LAW are "UNDER THE LAW" because to be "UNDER THE LAW" means to be guilty before God of sin (Romans 3:9-19).

BELIEVERS have been forgiven and no longer guilty of sin and through faith no longer under the condemnation of the law.

Your confused as to what it means to be "UNDER THE LAW". The scripture context determines the meaning. "UNDER THE LAW" can mean under the condemnation of the law or following it.

Hope this helps :wave:

LoveGodsWord · Sep 3, 2018

Dan the deacon said:
No they had Him put to death for telling the truth. They didn't make it up. They just didn't believe Him. He said who He was and they saw that truth as blasphomy.

You may need to read the scriptures more Dan. The Jews did not put him to death for tellnig the truth.

They accused him of Blasphemy when he was telling the truth, there is a difference.

MATTHEW 26:65 [65], Then the high priest rent his clothes, saying, He has spoken blasphemy; what further need have we of witnesses? behold, now you have heard his blasphemy.

JOHN 10:33;[33], The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone you not; but for blasphemy; and because that you, being a man, make yourself God.

Hope this helps :wave:

LoveGodsWord · Sep 3, 2018

Tutorman said:
Exactly. The SDA wishes us under to be the law of sin and death but Christians are under the law of grace of Christ.

Well Tutorman, Only those who break God's Commandments are "UNDER THE LAW" because to be "UNDER THE LAW" means to be guilty before God of breaking it (Romans 3:9-20). Those who continue in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will not enter into God's KINGDOM neither do they know God (Hebrews 10:26-27; 1 John 2:1-4; 1 John 3:3-9; Hebrews 6:4-8)

Nice to see you again my friend. May God help you as you seek him through his WORD :wave:

LoveGodsWord · Sep 3, 2018

Tutorman said:
@LoveGodsWord I want to apologize for getting mad and say things on this site I should not have said.

Hello Tutorman, it is ok brother. We all are human and sinners and make mistakes. I am a sinner just like you and is why I need a Saviour just the same as you and everyone else here. Thank you for your apology it is much appreciated and accepted and shows God is calling.

Tutorman said:
I do not believe breaking the ten commandments are a sin and I do not believe Christians are under the heavy burden of obeying every jot and tittle of the ten commandments. I believe Christians are under the law of Grace and that Christians are not under the law of sin and death and that we are free from the law of sin and death. Here some verses since you venerate the Bible Romans 4:15, Romans 5:20, Romans 6:14, Romans 7:1-6

Well this is the thing no one can follow or obey God's 10 commandments by ourselves as we are all we can do without Jesus is sin. We are sinners in need of a Saviour but the GOOD NEW of the gospel of CHRIST is that we have a SAVIOR who want to save us from sin

Jesus had this discussion with the unbelieving JEWS in his day..

JOHN 8:31-36
[31], Then said Jesus to those Jews who believed on him, If you continue in my word, then are you my disciples indeed;
[32], And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
[33], They answered him, We are Abraham's descendants, and were never in bondage to any man: how say you, You shall be made free?
[34], Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever commits sin is the servant of sin.
[35], And the servant abides not in the house forever: but the Son abides ever.
[36], If the Son therefore shall make you free, you shall be free indeed.

The purpose of God's LAW is to show us that we are all sinners and to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith (Galatians 3:22-25). It is the mirror we look into to see ourselves as sinners so we can see our Savior (James 1:23). It is the knowledge of Good and Evil; SIN AND RIGHTOUESNESS (Romans 3:20; 7:7; Psalms 119:172).

This is why we need to be BORN AGAINS. Those who are BORN AGAIN do not continue in known unrepentant sin (John 3:3; * 1 John 3:9).

God's LAW (10 Commandments) leads us to the cross of Christ as sinners in need of a Saviour with no excuses but to simply rely on the word of God and by through FAITH alone believe that FORGIVENESS for your sins is only in the precious blood that he shed so you do not need to face God for the sins we have done. In repentance, confession and faith we are free from the condemnation of the law and the wages of death. This is what is means in ROMANS 3 not to be "UNDER THE LAW". We are no more sinners because we have believed on him who loved us and washed us in his own blood and by his stripes we are healed * REVELATION 1:5; 1 PETER 2:24.

WALKING in the Spirit we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh [sin] *GALATIANS 5:16. Walking in the Spirit, LOVE is fulfilled in the heart of the believer through faith (Romans 8:4; Romans 13:8-10; Romans 1:7; Romans 3:22; Galatians 5:5; Philippians 3:9) . It is our duty of LOVE to GOD and LOVE to man and is God's eternal law that hang on the two great commandments of LOVE (Matthew 22:36-40).

Obedience to God's LAW is the expression of LOVE and the fruit of faith in those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD (James 2:18-20; Romans 13:8-10; James 2:8-12) and the expression of torment to those who brake it and reject the gift of God's dear son (Romans 6:23).

We are not made righteous by God's LAW through trying to keep God's LAW. All the 10 Commandments do is give us a knowledge of SIN if broken and RIGHTEOUSNESS if obeyed (Romans 3:20; Psalms 119:172).

God's WORD teaches we are saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves; it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast * Ephesians 2:8. Grace however is for OBEDIENCE to the faith (Romans 1:5; 16:26). If our faith has no fruit then it is dead (James 2:18-20).

Under the NEW COVENANT we are promised a NEW HEART to LOVE and LOVE is the fulfilling [doing] of God's LAW in those who BELIEVE. This is what Paul is teaching in Romans 13:8-10 and Jesus is teaching in Matthew 22:36-40 and James in James 2:8-11.

We need to be Born again to LOVE with a NEW HEART. LOVE is the fulfilling of God's LAW. If you LOVE your neighbor you will not KILL him right? This is why JESUS says to his followers, IF YOU LOVE ME KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS because on the two great commandments of LOVE, hang all the law and the prophets and as PAUL says LOVE sums up the 10 Commandments (Romans 13:9) The NEW COVENANT is LOVE written on the heart to walk as God walked and to LOVE as Jesus first LOVED us.

No one has God's Spirit while breaking his commandments (Acts 2:38; 3:19). The same as none have God's Spirit if they do not know God's WORD as God's Spirit works through God's WORD and it is not opposed to it because Jesus is the living WORD of God (John 1:1-3; 14). This is why Jesus says; The Words that I speak unto you they are Spirit and they are life (John 6:63). God's Spirit works through God's WORD.

You cannot separate God's Spirit from God's WORD...

JOHN 6:63 [63], It is the spirit that gives life; the flesh profits nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

God's Spirit convicts the world of sin and righteousness and the judgment to come through the Word of God. God's LAW is also God's WORD (Exodus 20:1-17).

HOW DO WE KNOW IF WE KNOW HIM?

1 JOHN 2:3-4
[3], And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
[4], He that said, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

No one has God's Spirit while breaking his commandments (Acts 2:38; 3:19) because if God's LAW is broken there is no LOVE to God or man (James 2:8-12; Romans 13:8-10). The same as none have God's Spirit if they do not know God's WORD as God's Spirit works through God's WORD and it is not opposed to it because Jesus is the living WORD of God (John 1:1-3; 14). This is why Jesus says; The Words that I speak unto you they are Spirit and they are life (John 6:63). God's Spirit works through God's WORD.

LOVE is the fulfilling of God's LAW in all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW GOD's WORD.

Hope this helps and thanks for sharing tutorman :wave:

Saint Steven · Sep 3, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
Because I am not. I study God's WORD for myself.

There is no way you are typing all these posts on the fly. You are copying and pasting from some established source, of your own I suppose. Still a database of some sort.

Saint Steven · Sep 3, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
Hello Steve,

There is NO "If that were true" as God's WORD says in ROMANS 2:4-13; and ROMANS 3:9-20; Galatians 3:22-25 BELIEVERS are not "UNDER THE LAW" because they have repented and confessed their sins and by faith in God's WORD have been forgiven.

Only those who break God's LAW are "UNDER THE LAW" because to be "UNDER THE LAW" means to be guilty before God of sin (Romans 3:9-19).

BELIEVERS have been forgiven and no longer guilty of sin and through faith no longer under the condemnation of the law.

Your confused as to what it means to be "UNDER THE LAW". The scripture context determines the meaning. "UNDER THE LAW" can mean under the condemnation of the law or following it.

Hope this helps

That does not in any way, shape, or form, explain what I am asking you.
God's WORD proves you are wrong.

Why would the Apostle write this? See scripture below.
Who would WANT to be under the condemnation of the law?

Galatians 4:21
Tell me, you who want to be under the law, are you not aware of what the law says?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

- If being under the law is to be under its condemnation;
what did the Apostle do to become like those under the law?

- What did the Apostle do to become like one not having the law?

- The Apostle described himself as not being under the law,
not free from God’s law, but under Christ’s law. Three different laws.

1 Corinthians 9:20-22
To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. 21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some.

IS IT SIN TO BREAK THE 10 COMMANDMENTS? (Yep!)

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A sinner saved by God's astounding grace and love

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