Revelation 9: Tormented 5 MONTHS and death fleeing

Is Revelation 9:5 symbolizing the 5 month siege of 70Ad Jerusalem?

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LittleLambofJesus

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Rev 12: 16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
KJV
Good post and thanks.
That reminds me of this awesome event in Numbers 16 where the earth opened up and swallowed up Korah's men in and possessions [Perhaps the flood is symbolizing something, maybe false doctrines, lies, deceptions? Would make for an interesting study]

Numbers 16:
30 But if the LORD brings about something unprecedented, and the earth opens its mouth and swallows them and all that belongs to them so that they go down alive into Sheol, then you will know that these men have treated the LORD with contempt.”

31 As soon as Moses had finished saying all this, the ground beneath them split open, 32 and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed them and their households, all Korah’s men and all their possessions.
33 They went down alive into Sheol with all they owned. The earth closed over them, and they vanished from the assembly. 34 At their cries, all the people of Israel who were around them fled, saying, “The earth may swallow us too!” 35 And fire came forth from the LORD and consumed the 250 men who were offering the incense.

Jude actually mentions that event:

Jude 1:11
Woe to them! For they have gone in the way of Cain, have run greedily in the error of Balaam for profit, and perished in the rebellion of Korah.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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It will happen during the wrath of God when the Seals/Trumpets /Vials are happeing
The 5 month time period in Revelation 9 has nothing to do with anything that has happened in the past - might as well divide the 1260 days into 5 month periods of time as that has as much relevance as doing it with Rev 9
or you could figure out a way to make Time Times and Half a Time into 5 months :)
What if the 5 months symbolized just the "half time"?

Notice these 2 greek words used in Reve 20:3:
[I am doing a study on this now]

Revelation 20:3
and he cast him to the Abyss, and did shut him up, and put a seal upon him,
that he may not lead astray the nations any more, till the thousand years may be finished;
and after these, it behoveth him to be loosed a little<3398> time<5550>.

Using an interlinear, the exact form of #3398 is used only 2 times in Revelation.
This is the other verse:

Revelation 6:
and there was given to each one white robes, and it was said to them that they may rest themselves yet a little<3398> time<5550>,
till may be fulfilled also their fellow-servants and their brethren, who are about to be killed -- even as they.

The exact form of the greek word #5550 is used only 3 times in Revelation, and that concerning Jezebel in the church of Thyatira:

Revelation chapter 2 - 1st four Churches
Thyatira

Revelation 2:21
and I did give to her time<5550> that she might reform from her whoredom, and she did not reform;
 
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seventysevens

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What if the 5 months symbolized just the "half time"?
What if it's not ? :)

Scripture indicates that a 'half a time' is equal to half a year , but the scripture about locusts tormenting men happens for a period of time designated as 5 months

time = 1 year , times = 2 years , 1/2 a time = 1/2 a year
in what year is 5 months equal to 1/2 a year ?

In what manner is it good to say that just because wording can seem similar that it should be considered a actual match ?
 
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Erik Nelson

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What if the 5 months symbolized just the "half time"?

Notice these 2 greek words used in Reve 20:3:
[I am doing a study on this now]

Revelation 20:3
and he cast him to the Abyss, and did shut him up, and put a seal upon him,
that he may not lead astray the nations any more, till the thousand years may be finished;

and after these, it behoveth him to be loosed a little<3398> time<5550>.

Using an interlinear, the exact form of #3398 is used only 2 times in Revelation.
This is the other verse:


Revelation 6:
and there was given to each one white robes, and it was said to them that they may rest themselves yet a little<3398> time<5550>,
till may be fulfilled also their fellow-servants and their brethren, who are about to be killed -- even as they
.

The exact form of the greek word #5550 is used only 3 times in Revelation, and that concerning Jezebel in the church of Thyatira:


https://www.christianforums.com/thr...st-four-churches.8064465/page-3#post-72861647
Thyatira

Revelation 2:21
and I did give to her time<5550> that she might reform from her whoredom, and she did not reform;
from a partial preterist perspective, the saints of the 1st century had to wait at most 500 years until Justinian built the Hagia Sophia and the Greco-Roman world was fully Christianized.

If mikros chronos <= 500 years...

and if the fall of Constantinople in 1453 AD (to Protestant Schism of 1517 AD) was the end of the Millennium...

then the 20th century (to "Maya 2012") would be about The End of Rev 20:11

If so, Earth is already (slightly) "over due"
 
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Davy

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What if the 5 months symbolized just the "half time"?

Notice these 2 greek words used in Reve 20:3:
[I am doing a study on this now]

Revelation 20:3
and he cast him to the Abyss, and did shut him up, and put a seal upon him,
that he may not lead astray the nations any more, till the thousand years may be finished;

and after these, it behoveth him to be loosed a little<3398> time<5550>.

Using an interlinear, the exact form of #3398 is used only 2 times in Revelation.
This is the other verse:


Revelation 6:
and there was given to each one white robes, and it was said to them that they may rest themselves yet a little<3398> time<5550>,
till may be fulfilled also their fellow-servants and their brethren, who are about to be killed -- even as they
.

The exact form of the greek word #5550 is used only 3 times in Revelation, and that concerning Jezebel in the church of Thyatira:


https://www.christianforums.com/thr...st-four-churches.8064465/page-3#post-72861647
Thyatira

Revelation 2:21
and I did give to her time<5550> that she might reform from her whoredom, and she did not reform;

Problem is, the "five months" is given during the timing of the 5th trumpet - 2nd Woe. Our Lord Jesus returns to take control on the 7th trumpet - 3rd Woe. Satan is still not locked in his pit prison during all those trumpet/woe periods. Revelation 11 even shows within the 6th trumpet-2nd woe timing the beast (Satan) ascending from the bottomless pit to kill God's two witnesses.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Revelation 9:
5 and it was given to them that they may not kill them, but that they may be tormented five months,
and their torment [is] as the torment of a scorpion, when it may strike a man;
6 And in those days shall men shall be seeking the death, and shall not shall be finding it
and shall be yearning/desiring to be dying and the death fleeing from them.
10 They had tails like scorpions, and there were stings in their tails.
Their power was to hurt men five months.

Genesis 7:24
And the waters prevailed on the earth one hundred and fifty days.

Can anyone explain the denari used in Revelation 6:6?

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

Revelation 6:6
And I hear a voice in midst of the four living-ones saying: "choinex of grain/wheat a denari and three choinex of barleys a denari, and the oil and the wine no you should be injuring". [John 11:48]

...............This memorable siege terminated on the eighth day of the ninth month, A.D. 70 : its duration was nearly five months,
the Romans having invested the city on the fourteenth day of the fourth month, preceeding.

1220. denarion day-nar'-ee-on of Latin origin; a denarius (or ten asses):--pence, penny(-worth).
AV - penny 9, pence 5, pennyworth 2; 16 denarius = "containing ten"
1) A Roman silver coin in NT time. It took its name from it being equal to ten "asses", a number after 217 B.C. increased to sixteen (about 3.898 grams or .1375 oz.). It was the principal silver coin of the Roman empire. From the parable of the labourers in the vineyard, it would seem that a denarius was then the ordinary pay for a day's wages. (Mt. 20:2-13)
 
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LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
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The time of the stinging. Yes, I've tried to get others to look at that, the 150 days that Noah's ark was on the height of the waters of the flood also representing the trial of the tribulation stinging of five months (150 days per old Hebrew reckoning of 30 days for a month).

I believe it is the shortened time our Lord Jesus mentioned.

Rev 12:15-16
15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
KJV
It would also seem that the 5 months was an extremely short period of time to topple Jerusalem in 70ad as per Matthew 24:22

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover.............

This memorable siege terminated on the eighth day of the ninth month, A.D. 70 : its duration was nearly five months,
the Romans having invested the city on the fourteenth day of the fourth month, preceeding.

Matthew 24:22
And if those days were not shortened, no flesh would have been saved;
but because of the chosen, shall those days be shortened

Revelation 9:5
5 And was given to them that not they should be killing them, but that they should be being tormented five months
And the torment of them as torment of a scorpion, whenever it should be striking a man;

 
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Davy

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It would also seem that the 5 months was an extremely short period of time to topple Jerusalem in 70ad as per Matthew 24:22

The future time of great tribulation has nothing to do with 70 A.D. The 2nd temple burned down in 70 A.D. (per Jewish historian Josephus), so the Romans never setup the abomination of desolation, which requires a standing Jewish temple in Jerusalem.
 
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shilohsfoal

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The future time of great tribulation has nothing to do with 70 A.D. The 2nd temple burned down in 70 A.D. (per Jewish historian Josephus), so the Romans never setup the abomination of desolation, which requires a standing Jewish temple in Jerusalem.

A temple is not required for a military to make Jerusalem desoate.
A nuclear bomb can make Jerusalem desolate so the only thing required is an object of mass destruction such as the one used to make Hiroshima desolate.
 
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Davy

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A temple is not required for a military to make Jerusalem desoate.
A nuclear bomb can make Jerusalem desolate so the only thing required is an object of mass destruction such as the one used to make Hiroshima desolate.

The desolation in the "abomination of desolation" phrase is about spiritual desolation of the sanctuary, not destruction of the sanctuary.

In 170 B.C., Antiochus Epiphanes took Jerusalem, went into the temple, and sacrificed swine upon the altar, and setup an idol abomination to Zeus in false worship. That ended sacrifices and old covenant worship until the Jews after the war cleansed the temple and rededicated it and started up old covenant worship again. What Antiochus did is what the "vile person" description in Daniel 11 is about:

Dan 11:31
31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
KJV
 
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shilohsfoal

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The desolation in the "abomination of desolation" phrase is about spiritual desolation of the sanctuary, not destruction of the sanctuary.

In 170 B.C., Antiochus Epiphanes took Jerusalem, went into the temple, and sacrificed swine upon the altar, and setup an idol abomination to Zeus in false worship. That ended sacrifices and old covenant worship until the Jews after the war cleansed the temple and rededicated it and started up old covenant worship again. What Antiochus did is what the "vile person" description in Daniel 11 is about:

Dan 11:31
31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
KJV

So you believe a spiritual army will make a spiritual Jerusalem spiritually desolate.

No.That's not what scripture says.
Scripture says Jerusalem,itself will be desolate.
https://biblehub.com/luke/21-20.htm

It means,without inhabitant.
 
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Davy

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So you believe a spiritual army will make a spiritual Jerusalem spiritually desolate.

No.That's not what scripture says.
Scripture says Jerusalem,itself will be desolate.
https://biblehub.com/luke/21-20.htm

It means,without inhabitant.

What do I have to do with you? You have no desire to follow the written Scripture, so go bug someone else.
 
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shilohsfoal

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LittleLambofJesus

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shilohsfoal said:
So you believe a spiritual army will make a spiritual Jerusalem spiritually desolate.
No.That's not what scripture says.
Scripture says Jerusalem,itself will be desolate.
Luke 21:20 But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, you will know that her desolation is near.
It means,without inhabitant.
Nailed it! :oldthumbsup:

2048. eremos er'-ay-mos of uncertain affinity; lonesome, i.e. (by implication) waste (usually as a noun, 5561 being implied):--desert, desolate, solitary, wilderness.

Matthew 23:38
Behold! the House of ye is left desolate/wilderness<2048>

2050. eremosis er-ay'-mo-sis from 2049; despoliation:--desolation.

Luke 21:20
And when you see Jerusalem being encircled by encampments, then know that nigh is the desolation<2050> of Her.

2049. eremoo er-ay-mo'-o from 2048; to lay waste (literally or figuratively):--(bring to, make) desolate(-ion), come to nought.

Revelation 18:
16 saying: “Woe, woe, the great City, having been clothed with fine linen and purple and scarlet, and having been adorned with gold and precious stone and pearl!
17 For in one hour such great wealth has been brought to desolation<2049>.”
19 And they cast dust upon their heads, and they were crying out, weeping and mourning, saying:
“Woe, woe, the great city, in which all those having ships in the sea were enriched through her wealth!
For in one hour she has been brought to desolation<2049>.

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

The day on wjavascript:void(null);hich Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover ;

In executing the command of Titus, relative to the demolition of Jerusalem, the Roman soldiers not only threw down the buildings, but even dug up their foundations, and so completely levelled the whole circuit of the city, that a stranger would scarcely have known that it had ever been inhabited by human beings. Thus was this great City, which only five months before, had been crowded with nearly two millions of people, who gloried in its impregnable strength, entirely depopulated, and levelled with the ground. And thus, also was our LORD'S prediction, that her enemies should "lay her even with the ground," and "should not leave in her one stone upon another, " (Luke xix. 44.) most strikingly and fully accomplished !

What do I have to do with you? You have no desire to follow the written Scripture, so go bug someone else.
Looks like he follows it to me........
 
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Davy

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Nailed it! :oldthumbsup:



Looks like he follows it to me........

That's because you didn't read my post either that he was pulling from, in which he didn't address the Scripture I posted in question. So if you're going to issue kudos, you should at least ask me why I responded like I did. And does come from him doing likewise in other conversations I've had with him.
 
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shilohsfoal

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That's because you didn't read my post either that he was pulling from, in which he didn't address the Scripture I posted in question. So if you're going to issue kudos, you should at least ask me why I responded like I did. And does come from him doing likewise in other conversations I've had with him.

You said its spiritual.Daniel never said it was spiritual ,nor did Jesus say it was spiritual.
Scripture plainly states Jerusalem would be desolate and it shall.

Why you believe the jerusalem made by humans cannot be destroyed is beyond belief.It was made by man and will be desolate from man.The only Jerusalem that can never be destroyed is the city of God.New Jerusalem which shall come down from heaven from God.

But Jerusalem which is of this world will be laid waste.Desolate.
 
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Erik Nelson

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Christ's reference to

if I by the finger of God cast out demons...

alludes to Exodus 8:19 wherein the Egyptian magicians finally acknowledged God's activity

ie the first century Judean and Jerusalem power structure = Egypt = Sodom = Babylon in revelation

evidently it was Jesus during his earthly ministry first began referring to the first century Jerusalem power structure As Egypt and sodom and Babylon All the other references in the New Testament derived from him and his earthly ministry
 
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Davy

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The meaning of the placing of the abomination that maketh DESOLATE is spiritual defamation of the temple, i.e. polluting... the sanctuary. It is NOT about physical destruction of the sanctuary.

Dan 11:31
31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

KJV

This meaning is what the "abomination of desolation" is about, spiritual desolation inside the sanctuary because of the placing of an idol abomination in false worship instead.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Has anyone noticed the 5 months in Reve 9 in comparison with the time the flood covered the earth in Gene 7:24:

Revelation 9:
5 and it was given to them that they may not kill them, but that they may be tormented five months,
and their torment [is] as the torment of a scorpion, when it may strike a man;
6 And in those days shall men shall be seeking the death, and shall not shall be finding it
and shall be yearning/desiring to be dying and the death fleeing from them.
10 They had tails like scorpions, and there were stings in their tails. Their power was to hurt men five months.

Genesis 7:24
And the waters prevailed on the earth one hundred and fifty days.

According to Josephus, it took about 5 months for the Roman army, from the time Titus encompassed Jerusalem, to the final destruction of the City, :

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover.....................

For five days after the destruction of the Temple, the priests who had escaped, sat pining with hunger on the top of one of its broken walls; at length, they came down, and humbly asked the pardon of Titus,
which, however, he refused to grant them, saying, that, "as the Temple, for the sake of which he would have spared them, was destroyed, it was but fit that its priests should perish also:" -whereupon he commanded that they should be put to death.

...............This memorable siege terminated on the eighth day of the ninth month, A.D. 70 : its duration was nearly five months, the Romans having invested the city on the fourteenth day of the fourth month, preceeding.

Before their final demolition, however, Titus took a survey of the city and its fortifications ; and, while contemplating their impregnable strength, could not help ascribing his success to the peculiar interposition of the ALMIGHTY HIMSELF. "Had not God himself (exclaimed he) aided out operations, and driven the Jews from their fortresses, it would have been absolutely impossible to have taken them ; for what could men, and the force of engines, have done against such towers as these.................
I did a google search on 42 months Jerusalem 70 ad today and this site came up..

I quoted just part of it, but I am putting it into a study folder as the author appears to have some interesting perspectives on it and fills in a lot of the puzzle during that period.......Fascinating........

I am bolding the parts that I feel are worth studying more deeply on.....

The Gentiles Trampled Jerusalem for 42 Months (Revelation 11:1-2)

In Revelation 11:1-2 John was told about a 3.5 year period of tragedy that was about to come upon:
Then I was given a reed like a measuring rod. And the angel stood, saying, ‘Rise and measure the temple of God, the altar, and those who worship there. But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles, and they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months.’”

The Greek word used here for “Gentiles” is “ethnos,” the counterpart of the Hebrew word “goy” in the Old Testament. In the past, I simply assumed that this must be a reference to the Romans who helped destroy Jerusalem and the temple in 70 AD.
I marked out 3.5 years from the time that Nero dispatched Vespasian as his war general (early 67 AD) until Vespasian’s son, Titus, oversaw the burning of the temple in August 70 AD.

However, the Romans did not trample the city of Jerusalem for 42 months. They only trampled Jerusalem during the 5-month siege of Titus in 70 AD.

The Jews successfully kicked the Romans out of Jerusalem in August 66 AD, and they only managed to return to Jerusalem for a few days in November 66 AD when Cestius Gallus unsuccessfully attacked the city.

For the next 3.5 years the Romans did not enter Jerusalem.

During the 42 months before the Romans came, Jerusalem was indeed trampled,
but it was by a different group of people.

In early 68 AD Jesus ben Gamala, one of the former high priests, gave a speech in which he described what was happening to Jerusalem because of the Zealots:


“And this place, which is adored by the habitable world, and honored by such as only know it by report, as far as the ends of the earth, is trampled upon by these wild beasts born among ourselves” (Wars 4.4.3).


“Foreigners Appeared to Have Begun the War.”
About a year into the Jewish-Roman War (66-73 AD), the Roman general Vespasian stated his strong suspicion that “foreigners” had begun the war.


Josephus then identified those foreigners and where they came from. It happened when Vespasian captured part of Galilee in the summer of 67 AD. He “sat upon his tribunal at Taricheae, in order to distinguish the foreigners from the old inhabitants; for those foreigners appeared to have begun the war.

Some of those foreigners were from Hippos, which was “a Greco-Roman city” in the Decapolis that was “culturally tied more closely to Greece and Rome than to the Semitic ethnoi around” (Wikipedia). Josephus said that “the greatest part of [those foreigners] were seditious persons and fugitives, who were of such shameful characters that they preferred war before peace.” Most of the other foreigners were from Trachonitis and Gaulanitis, in the region of Batanea near Persia (Wars 3.10.10).
=====================================



........................
 
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TribulationSigns

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Little Lamb,

I see that you are trying to link the numbers found in Revelation with a physical event in Jerusalem 70AD to fit your doctrine which I, with due respect, is not biblically accurate. Here is my position on this:

Nothing in the book of Revelation is just a normal number or time without any symbolic, representational or spiritual meaning to it. The entire book of Revelation is a collage of cryptic numbers, figures, imagery, enigmatic representations, symbolism, analogies and metaphors. For me to agree with that would be like saying the one thousand year reign was just a normal one thousand years (as some Theologians often did before 1000 years had passed). Or that the seven churches simply spoke concerning those literal seven churches in Turkey. No, I can't agree with this. As the seven, as God defined it, is a "representation" a symbol of some deeper spiritual truth. For example, seven being the number of completeness or the totality. There's not a single number in the book of Revelation that doesn't carry some symbolic spiritual significance. These numbers, like the imagery of the pit, dragon, smoke, locusts, stings, woman, bottomless pit, two witnesses, etc., aren't literal/physical, and so how can we think that we can take the 5 months out of this "symbolic context" and make it literally 5 months like you are attempting to. No more than saying the Two Witnesses are literally two men. It's contrary to the whole of Scripture. Especially from a book where numbers are so obviously used symbolically. For example the 42 months, the 144,000 sealed of Israel, the 24 elders before the throne, the 1000 year reign, the 10 horns of the Dragon, the 7 Spirits of God, the 2 witnesses, the 4 horsemen, the 12 stars in heaven, seven eyes of the lamb, 12 candlesticks and so on and so on.

Now, the 5 months of Revelation 9 "represents" the time period between when God gives authority for His unfaithful congregation (falling star) to open the bottomless bit or abyss and loose the spirit of Antichrist against her, and the time when her house is left in ruins or desolated because of rise of false prophets and christs therein. This as judgment for their rebellion in serving lawless men like Joel Osteen, Joyce Meyers, etc . rather than God. As in Revelation 20 where Satan and his minions come against the camp of the saints, not against the world, which he already has enslaved. He gathers the nations against the camp of believers. He wants to extend his rule into the kingdom of God on earth which is the CHURCH, not some physical city of Jerusalem. Revelation 9:1-2 correlates to Revelation chapter 20 when Satan is loosed from this same bottomless pit to assault the camp of the saints.

Revelation 9:1-2
  • "And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
  • And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit."
The star signifies messenger. It is God's messenger that John saw had fallen was given the key to the bottomless pit by the Lord in order to use Satan and his men with spirit of antichrist to render judgment upon the unfaithful and unrepenting church. This is just as God promised the fallen star, the messenger of the church, what would happen if he didn't repent from his evil, didn't He? God promised that his (the star's) church would be removed out of its place, didn't He? The same rule always applies, that Scripture interprets Scripture, God's word explains God's word, not man. And God interprets HIS prophecies, that both the star that had fallen and the result of it if he didn't repent.

Revelation 1:20
  • "The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the messengers of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches."
The Lord Himself decyphers the mystery of the symbol of the star and the Candlestick (lampstand) in His word so that there can be no misunderstanding in this uncovering. The stars He reveals are actually the messengers of the churches, both the believers and professed believers, and the candlesticks He assures us are actually the churches. This is according to God's revelation of the mystery of this symbolism. Now we read further and discern the warning that God Himself specifically gives to the star that had fallen.

The number five in Scripture simply signify "T

Revelation 2:5
  • "Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent."
So then we have God's interpretation of the heaven from which the star fell, exactly what the star that had fallen represented!! And that God would indeed bring judgment upon that stars church by removing it out of its place "if" the messenger didn't remember from where he had fallen and repent. Allowing the Relevator to reveal this truth we see that God illustrates that it is because of this fallen star that the church is judged, and God removes it out of its place.

Indeed, only Christ has the key to the bottomless pit and at the appointed time of judgment upon the fallen star will He loosen the spirit of Satan from the pit SO THAT his church be removed out of its place in God's Kingdom! This is the falling of the New Testament congregation for being unfaithful for a short time prior to Second Coming! Nothing to do with Physical Jerusalem in 70AD nor the modern city of Jerusalem today!

This removal of the candlestick (the church) is what darkens the world (Luke 8:16-17). For example, the light of Gospel Truth that was once there is put out or become dim when it is removed. These are spiritual truths concerning God's judgment upon lawless man, the fallen messenger that is ruling in His holy Temple "as if" he were God. Therefore the 5 months of this anguish or torment upon the church for the messengers rebellion is the length of time of the great tribulation there. This great tribulation of the church is the same torment of those who are hurt by the locust-like deceivers who devour the greenery and fruitful fields of Gospel that is representative of God's house. In other words, according to Revelation 9:4, ALL of those there within the congregation of God that are without the seal of God. They are the professed Christian WITHOUT the true security of the Spirit. They are being inflicted or torment by the DOCTRINES of men that God allowed to come into the church "as a plague" upon the unfaithful congregation. Actually, it is the plague sent by God likened unto locusts upon the grass like the days of Moses, as an EXAMPLE for our spiritual understanding, which is devastation and ruins New Testament congregation's representation of God's Kingdom. This will take place right before Christ's return, which I believe is right now.

The signs are that the star that is fallen and will not repent, the end being their church will be removed out of its place can only be discerned by God's people. It is the signs of the times. The SPIRITUAL APOSTASY and DARKNESS. The SAME BLINDNESS that has been happened to Israel is repeated in the spiritual blindness of the New Testament Congregation.

You are looking in the wrong place and wrong time, Little Lamb.
 
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