Where is the Evidence of a Gap in the 70 weeks of Dan 9?
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DavidPT
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and shall anoint the most Holy.
According to my Strong's 'most' is the Hebrew word 'qodesh'. In the book of Daniel, per the KJV, it is translated 'sanctuary' in the following passages.
Daniel 8:13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary(qodesh) and the host to be trodden under foot?
14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary(qodesh) be cleansed.
Daniel 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary(qodesh); and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
If the most Holy is meaning the sanctuary, According to verse 14 in Daniel 8, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.
And since Daniel 9:26 is meaning a time post the cutting off of the Messiah, why would the sanctuary be anointed then destroyed after it had been anointed? Where I'm reminded of another of my points---why would the transgression against the holy city be finished, then some 40 years later it is destroyed? Maybe my problem is this? I tend to try and use a little common sense when trying to determine what something might be meaning. Maybe using a little common sense is the wrong approach? But even if it is, my common sense still tells me that once the transgression against the holy city is finished, it means it is no longer subject to destruction from that time forth, for forever. 70 AD contradicts that though.
What a lot of folks don't seem to grasp, though some indeed do, we are in the computer age. That means we have a lot of advantages that those in ancient times never had. We are able to easily do word searches, phrase searches, etc. But very few seem to want to do that though. Very few seem to realize these contexts are connected. But some prefer to think Daniel 8, as an example, all of it had been fulfilled in past history, therefore no connection to anything in the 70th week in Daniel 9. The same goes for Daniel 11.
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Sounds good to me.......
https://www.christianforums.com/thr...-the-70-weeks-of-dan-9.8077710/#post-73069314
and to anoint<4886> holy<6944> of holies<6944>.
https://www.christianforums.com/thr...-weeks-of-dan-9.8077710/page-17#post-73078315
4886 mashach maw-shakh' a primitive root; to rub with oil, i.e. to anoint; by implication, to consecrate; also to paint:--anoint, paint.
6944 qodesh ko'-desh from 6942; a sacred place or thing; rarely abstract, sanctity:--consecrated (thing), dedicated (thing), hallowed (thing), holiness, (X most) holy (X day, portion, thing), saint,
This is the final part of Daniel 9:24
I will start on Dan 9:25 next.
https://www.christianforums.com/thr...-the-70-weeks-of-dan-9.8077710/#post-73069437
and to anoint<4886> holy<6944> of holy-ones<6944>.
6944 qodesh ko'-desh from 6942; a sacred place or thing; rarely abstract, sanctity:--consecrated (thing), dedicated (thing), hallowed (thing), holiness, (X most) holy (X day, portion, thing), saint, sanctuary.
#h6944 is used in 10 verses of Daniel, chapts 8, 9, 11 and 12.
Exodus 3:5
And He saith, "Come not near hither: cast! thy sandals from off thy feet,
for the place on which thou art standing is holy<6944> ground.'"
Last time used:
Malachi 2:11
Dealt treacherously hath Judah,
And abomination<8441> hath been done in Israel and in Jerusalem.
For Judah hath polluted/profained<2490> the sanctuary/holy-place<6944> of Yahweh that He hath loved,
and hath married the daughter of a strange god.
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....and that's not too unreasonable (the cleansing of the sanctuary IS a critical part of all this)....but there's a tie to something else here (IMO)...look at what Jesus said:
“Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up again.” ~ John 2:19
John 2:21 ~ But Jesus was speaking about the temple of His body.
John 2:21 ~ But Jesus was speaking about the temple of His body.
You're still following Western step logic. That's not the order in which things happened.DavidPT said:
There's a bit of sarcasm in this post (that really doesn't help in nurturing cordial discussion).
Maybe you've not read the post I shared recently where I linked an article by Christian Courier. That article is pretty comprehensive, but also succinct. I'll try to paraphrase, but honestly, the language in that article is far superior to my expression.
I understand your resistance due to the lack of immediate destruction of the holy city.....but I think what you may be missing is that this point in history was a clash and overlap of TWO covenants (the Sinai covenant and the confirmation/renewal of the Abrahamic covenant). When it's mentioned that the Anointed One "finished the transgression" - that's the NEW system.....the New Covenant. As that article put it:
------->This exciting context sets forth the primary purpose of Christ’s mission to Earth. First, the Messiah would come to deal with the problem of human sin. He would “finish transgression,” make an “end of sins,” and effect “reconciliation for iniquity.” That theme is developed gloriously throughout the New Testament (see Matthew 1:21; 20:28; 26:28; 1 Corinthians 15:3; 2 Corinthians 5:21; Galatians 1:4; Ephesians 1:7; Colossians 1:20; 1 Peter 2:24; Revelation 1:5—passages that are but a fractional sampling of the New Testament references to this exalted topic).
The advent of Christ did not put an end to sin in the sense that wickedness was eradicated from the earth. Rather, the work of the Savior was to introduce a system that could provide effectually and permanently a solution to the human sin predicament. This is one of the themes of the book of Hebrews. Jesus’ death was a “once-for-all” event (see Hebrews 9:26). The Lord never will have to return to the earth to repeat the Calvary experience.
It is interesting to note that Daniel emphasized that the Anointed One would address the problems of “transgression,” “sin,” and “iniquity”—as if to suggest that the Lord is capable of dealing with evil in all of its hideous forms. Similarly, the prophet Isaiah, in the fifty-third chapter of his narrative, revealed that the Messiah would sacrifice himself for “transgression” (vv. 5,8,12), “sin” (vv. 10,12), and “iniquity” (vv. 5,6,11).
It is worthy of mention at this point that Isaiah 53 frequently is quoted in the New Testament in conjunction with the Lord’s atoning work at the time of his first coming. Since Daniel 9:24ff quite obviously has an identical thrust, it, too, must focus upon the Savior’s work at the cross, and not upon Jesus’ second coming—as is alleged by premillennialists. ~ https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/14-daniels-prophecy-of-the-seventy-weeks
The advent of Christ did not put an end to sin in the sense that wickedness was eradicated from the earth. Rather, the work of the Savior was to introduce a system that could provide effectually and permanently a solution to the human sin predicament. This is one of the themes of the book of Hebrews. Jesus’ death was a “once-for-all” event (see Hebrews 9:26). The Lord never will have to return to the earth to repeat the Calvary experience.
It is interesting to note that Daniel emphasized that the Anointed One would address the problems of “transgression,” “sin,” and “iniquity”—as if to suggest that the Lord is capable of dealing with evil in all of its hideous forms. Similarly, the prophet Isaiah, in the fifty-third chapter of his narrative, revealed that the Messiah would sacrifice himself for “transgression” (vv. 5,8,12), “sin” (vv. 10,12), and “iniquity” (vv. 5,6,11).
It is worthy of mention at this point that Isaiah 53 frequently is quoted in the New Testament in conjunction with the Lord’s atoning work at the time of his first coming. Since Daniel 9:24ff quite obviously has an identical thrust, it, too, must focus upon the Savior’s work at the cross, and not upon Jesus’ second coming—as is alleged by premillennialists. ~ https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/14-daniels-prophecy-of-the-seventy-weeks
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Also.....the text does not say the transgression against the holy city is finished ("finished" in the sense that, under this NEW system, there was an end to sin. "He is the lamb of God that takes away the sin of this world"....John 1:29).DavidPT said:
But the time clock was still ticking away on the 490 years given to the people of Daniel related to the Sinai covenant/Law of Moses.
-------->The law of Moses had commanded the Israelites to acknowledge every seventh year as a sabbatical year. The ground was to lie at rest (Leviticus 25:1-7). Apparently, across the centuries Israel had ignored that divinely-imposed regulation. In their pre-captivity history, there seems to be no example of their ever having honored the sabbath-year law. Thus, according to the testimony of one biblical writer, the seventy years of the Babylonian captivity was assigned “until the land had enjoyed its sabbaths” (2 Chronicles 36:21).
If each of the seventy captivity-years represented a violation of the sabbatical-year requirement (every seventh year), as 2 Chronicles 36:21 appears to suggest, this would indicate that Israel had neglected the divine injunction for approximately 490 years. The captivity era therefore looked backward upon five centuries of sinful neglect. At the same time, Daniel’s prophecy telescoped forward to a time—some 490 years into the future—when the “Anointed One” would “make an end of sins” (9:24). Daniel’s prophecy seems to mark a sort of midway point in the historical scheme of things. ~ https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/14-daniels-prophecy-of-the-seventy-weeks
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OT:6944
qodesh (ko'-desh); from OT:6942; a sacred place or thing; rarely abstract, sanctity:
KJV - consecrated (thing), dedicated (thing), hallowed (thing), holiness, (X most) holy (X day, portion, thing), saint, sanctuary.
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright (c) 1994, Biblesoft and International Bible Translators, Inc.)
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Joh 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
Joh 2:20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
Joh_2:21 But He was speaking of the temple of His body.
Act 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
.
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keras
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Yes, Jesus and all the born again Christians do represent God's Temple on earth now.
This truth does not preclude another actual Temple being built, just as prophesied.
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What I find rather fascinating is the greek word #3485 used in John 2:20 is how many times it is used in the NT....
https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G3485&t=YLT
3485. naos nah-os' from a primary naio (to dwell); a fane, shrine, temple :--shrine, temple. Compare 2411.
Strong's Number G3485 matches the Greek ναός (naos), which occurs 46 times in 40 verses
Matthew 23:35
that on you may come all the righteous blood being poured out on the land, from the blood of righteous Abel, unto the blood of Zacharias, son of Barachias,
whom ye slew between the Sanctuary<3485> and the Altar
[Luke 11:50,51]
Last time used:
Revelation 21:22
And a Sanctuary<3485> I did not see in it,
for the Lord God, the Almighty, is its Sanctuary<3485>, and the Lamb
http://www.christianforums.com/t7272732-6/#post48193672
The Sanctuary, Altar and Court in Revelation 11:2
http://www.nsbible.org/sits_ts/v0s1.htm
The Camp--The Court--The Tabernacle--The Brazen Altar--The Laver-- The Table--The Lampstand--The Golden Altar--The Mercy Seat and Ark--The Gate--The First Veil--The Second Veil--The Significance of These and Their Antitypes.
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Acts 7
48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,
49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?
Who's going to build it? The Lord isn't interested.
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10 ... but those who are wise shall understand.
Ummmmm, not necessarily a "few" and not necessarily "leaders". -- To presume such, places a greater faith in others than in GOD Revelation for the individuals comprising the Body of Christ.Jesus is NOT the subject of Daniel Chapter 9. Anyone who believes this has fallen under the twisting of Scripture, and the lies of the commentators. The literal Scripture, and the Historical record BOTH contradict your assertions.
Thanks,
DaDad
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keras
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Revelation 11:1 refutes you.
Plus many other proofs of a Temple for the worship of God, to be built in Jerusalem in the end times. To the plans and specifications of Ezekiel 40-49
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keras
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Unless you can come up with proofs instead of opinions, I will continue to believe the logical and plainly stated scripture of Daniel 9:26a; that Jesus is the Anointed Prince.
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The location of the temple in Revelation 11:1 is found at the end of the chapter, and refutes you.
Rev 11:1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
Rev 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.
.
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Jer_31:31 "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—
Mat_26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
Mar_14:24 And He said to them, "This is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many.
Luk_22:20 Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.
1Co_11:25 In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me."
2Co_3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
Heb_8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH—
Heb_8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
Heb_9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.
Heb_12:24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.
Daniel Chapter 9: Dr. Kelly Varner
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Unless you can come up where Jesus returns after the seven, and then again after the sixty-two, -- then I would propose that this isn't about Jesus at all. Scripture doesn't support it, and History doesn't defend it.
Is there really a reason so many people are so ignorant about this simple Chapter? Is it intentional?
Thanks,
DaDad
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keras
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So; do the Gentiles trample the outer court for 42 months, in heaven?
Rather obvious, isn't it that there are two Temples mentioned in Rev 11.
You really should be more careful with your posts, too hasty and far too repetitious.
It is much better to just give us the scripture reference, we can click on it to read it. It is a reasoned and logical interpretation, supported by other scriptures, that carries weight.
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(KJV+) ButG2532 theG3588 courtG833 which is withoutG1855 theG3588 templeG3485 leaveG1544 out,G1854 andG2532 measureG3354 itG846 not;G3361 forG3754 it is givenG1325 unto theG3588 Gentiles:G1484 andG2532 theG3588 holyG40 cityG4172 shall they tread under footG3961 forty and twoG5062 G1417 months.G3376
(NKJV) But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months.
(YLT) and the court that is without the sanctuary leave out, and thou mayest not measure it, because it was given to the nations, and the holy city they shall tread down forty-two months;
G833
αὐλή
aulē
ow-lay'
From the same as G109; a yard (as open to the wind); by implication a mansion: - court, ([sheep-]) fold, hall, palace.
Total KJV occurrences: 12
Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
Do you think the earthly city being described above as like "Sodom and Egypt" contains the temple of God?
Does it sound like a city in a right relationship with God?
You need to take your own advice found above...
.
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