70th Week - It Is Still Pending

Davy

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Correct. Scripture explicitly states it would be 7+62 weeks unto the messiah.
Notice, it does NOT SAY 7+62 until the messiah is cut off

It explicitly states the messiah would be cut off AFTER 62+7

Regardless of whether we use 454 B.C. or 445 B.C. as the start point, the 7 weeks and 62 weeks = a total of 69 weeks, NOT 70 weeks. The FINAL "one week" is not mentioned until Dan.9:27, and that is AFTER we were told about Messsiah being cut off, and AFTER being told about Titus with his army coming to destroy the city and sanctuary.

So to use your... logic, of trying to move the 70th week back to the days of Jesus, that would mean what Titus did in 70 A.D. with destroying Jerusalem would also have to be moved back to the days of Jesus! That simply does not work, and it is actually foolishness.
 
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BABerean2

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The Dan.8:9-14 Scripture about the "little horn" is the same one of Dan.7, and the "he" of Dan.9:27, and of Dan.11:21-45 as the "vile person".

If you could find an antecedent in Daniel chapter 9 for such a person, you might have an argument...


But then you would also have to claim that the angel Gabriel came to reveal the timeline of the New Covenant Messiah and then the angel failed to even mention the New Covenant, already promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34.

.
 
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Davy

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But there is, and there's no shortage of discontinuity between what the Scriptures say, what the "translators/commentators" have done, and what History provides.

Perhaps when we disobey the angelic guidance, confusion reigns. Maybe we should FOLLOW the angelic guidance:

4 But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, until the time of the end.
9 He said, “Go your way, Daniel, for the words are shut up and sealed until the time of the end.

What a mess the "translators/commentators" have made,
DaDad

I don''t see the confusion folks here are having. The sevens are plainly laid out in 3 periods and are easy to calculate. The subject of who, what, how, and where are easily read, and there's details about their parameters given throughout the Book of Daniel.

Not only that, our Lord Jesus points us to its events for the lasts days involving the AOD, so that makes certain that we have to understand that event is to take place at the very end of this world in the days of His return, for He showed that in the seven signs of the end linked to Rev.6.

The only way to get confused on all that is by NOT heeding it as written, while also not heeding our Lord Jesus' warnings in connection with Daniel for the end of this world, and also in His Revelation where He even pointing directly to Daniel 7.

No, I'll tell what the problem is. A veil is over the eyes of some here about this prophecy, simply because they want to follow doctrines of men instead of staying in the simplicity those Scriptures are written in, in order to see the bigger picture. Instead they strain at a gnat, just like how the Pharisees of old used to do. And for this reason, a veil is over their eyes and ears.
 
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A71

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I don''t see the confusion folks here are having. The sevens are plainly laid out in 3 periods and are easy to calculate. The subject of who, what, how, and where are easily read, and there's details about their parameters given throughout the Book of Daniel.

Not only that, our Lord Jesus points us to its events for the lasts days involving the AOD, so that makes certain that we have to understand that event is to take place at the very end of this world in the days of His return, for He showed that in the seven signs of the end linked to Rev.6.

The only way to get confused on all that is by NOT heeding it as written, while also not heeding our Lord Jesus' warnings in connection with Daniel for the end of this world, and also in His Revelation where He even pointing directly to Daniel 7.

No, I'll tell what the problem is. A veil is over the eyes of some here about this prophecy, simply because they want to follow doctrines of men instead of staying in the simplicity those Scriptures are written in, in order to see the bigger picture. Instead they strain at a gnat, just like how the Pharisees of old used to do. And for this reason, a veil is over their eyes and ears.
You are getting too emotional and accusatory. We all are at different levels and points of understanding. No one can be coerced into a doctrine. Hopefully the gravity of scripture will burst all the balloons of wishful thinking and ground all the kites of highfalutin' entangled theorem
 
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Davy

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I can only think that those who insist the 70th 'week' happened in the first century, have a great fear of the possibility that they, themselves will have to experience it.
Jesus WAS cut off after the 69th week, then He rose again and returned to heaven, but He still continues to work on earth, spiritually. Meeting Paul on the Damascus Road was an example and there have been many since; of Jesus appearing to those who call to Him. Luke 13:32, Hosea 6:2

It is a direct contradiction of scripture to say the 70th week is finished. Daniel 9:27, 2 Thess 2:4 and all the Revelation prophesies about the last 3 1/2 years, all await fulfilment.
What's more, we Christians should be looking forward to all that must happen, as the Lord promises to protect His people, thru it all.

The plan for World Socialism the globalists push, have has ensured a lot of religious training of some Churches towards their plans, and the worst case is with full preterists that treat Jesus' second coming as already having happened back in the days of His Apostles. They aren't interested in keeping to the Scriptures as written, but instead twist it as much as needed to form their world peace plans in preparation for receiving the coming false Messiah, and crowning him as king of the world, instead of waiting on our Lord Jesus to come.
 
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A71

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The plan for World Socialism the globalists push, have has ensured a lot of religious training of some Churches towards their plans, and the worst case is with full preterists that treat Jesus' second coming as already having happened back in the days of His Apostles. They aren't interested in keeping to the Scriptures as written, but instead twist it as much as needed to form their world peace plans in preparation for receiving the coming false Messiah, and crowning him as king of the world, instead of waiting on our Lord Jesus to come.

Get in the Word, and let it destroy strongholds

Jeremiah 23:28 The prophet that hath a dream, let him tell a dream; and he that hath my word, let him speak my word faithfully. What is the chaff to the wheat? saith the Lord. 29 Is not my word like as a fire? saith the Lord; and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces?
 
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Davy

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Get in the Word, and let it destroy strongholds

Jeremiah 23:28 The prophet that hath a dream, let him tell a dream; and he that hath my word, let him speak my word faithfully. What is the chaff to the wheat? saith the Lord. 29 Is not my word like as a fire? saith the Lord; and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces?

One must stay in it and accept it as written first. I don't see those who want to try and move the 70th final week back to the days of Jesus doing that.
 
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A71

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One must stay in it and accept it as written first. I don't see those who want to try and move the 70th final week back to the days of Jesus doing that.
How can you dislocate the 70th week from its proper setting?
It is like putting a Ben Hur chariot on the freeway. Come on! Who taught you this madness?
 
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Davy

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How can you dislocate the 70th week from its proper setting?
It is like putting a Ben Hur chariot on the freeway. Come on! Who taught you this madness?

I am not the author of that madness. (and that could be taken as a slur, by the way.)
 
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A71

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I am not the author of that madness. (and that could be taken as a slur, by the way.)
It is madness. It is a febrile contagion that has swept through the Church. It is a mass delusion.
Have I slurred you? Heavens above, no.
 
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BABerean2

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Not only that, our Lord Jesus points us to its events for the lasts days involving the AOD, so that makes certain that we have to understand that event is to take place at the very end of this world in the days of His return, for He showed that in the seven signs of the end linked to Rev.6.

The only way to get confused on all that is by NOT heeding it as written, while also not heeding our Lord Jesus' warnings in connection with Daniel for the end of this world, and also in His Revelation where He even pointing directly to Daniel 7.

No, I'll tell what the problem is. A veil is over the eyes of some here about this prophecy, simply because they want to follow doctrines of men instead of staying in the simplicity those Scriptures are written in, in order to see the bigger picture.

Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)
Mat 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:


Luk 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
Luk 21:21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.


Daniel Chapter 9: Dr. Kelly Varner



.
 
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keras

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The plan for World Socialism the globalists push, have has ensured a lot of religious training of some Churches towards their plans, and the worst case is with full preterists that treat Jesus' second coming as already having happened back in the days of His Apostles. They aren't interested in keeping to the Scriptures as written, but instead twist it as much as needed to form their world peace plans in preparation for receiving the coming false Messiah, and crowning him as king of the world, instead of waiting on our Lord Jesus to come.
Fortunately for all the born again Christians here, a wrong belief in these issues of the 70th week, the 'rapture to heaven' etc, do not have an effect on ones salvation.

There is no doubt that many have not taken care to avoid being deceived. Matthew 24:4 People have believed theories and doctrines that do not have proper Bible support, taught by those who they trusted to teach the truth, but were in fact: wolves in sheeps clothing. Acts 20:29
Once a person has believed in these false teachings, then it is very difficult to change, because of peer pressure, but mainly because the Lord will lock them into it. Isaiah 29:9-12, Isaiah 42:18-20, 1 Corinthians 3:18-20
 
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jgr

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Fortunately for all the born again Christians here, a wrong belief in these issues of the 70th week, the 'rapture to heaven' etc, do not have an effect on ones salvation.

There is no doubt that many have not taken care to avoid being deceived. Matthew 24:4 People have believed theories and doctrines that do not have proper Bible support, taught by those who they trusted to teach the truth, but were in fact: wolves in sheeps clothing. Acts 20:29
Once a person has believed in these false teachings, then it is very difficult to change, because of peer pressure, but mainly because the Lord will lock them into it. Isaiah 29:9-12, Isaiah 42:18-20, 1 Corinthians 3:18-20

There is no more obvious example than the modernist fallacies of dispensational futurism.
 
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keras

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There is no more obvious example than the modernist fallacies of dispensational futurism.
We shall soon see; won't we?

2 Peter 3:3-4 In the last days, scoffers will come – scoffing and following their own evil desires. They will say: Where is this ‘coming’ He promised? Our fathers have been laid to rest, but still everything goes on as it always has done.
This is a question posed by sceptics, put so as to ridicule, by those who have not entered into the experience of believing in and trusting the Lord Jesus.

We Christian believers may well ask; Why does Jesus delay His Return? We await His coming and sometimes get impatient. But we can be confident that this delay is not due to some kind of mix up. God is sovereign-when everything that needs to be accomplished before His Return, is done – then He will come.

2 Peter 3:5-7 When they say this, they forget that God created the universe and the first civilization on earth was destroyed by a great flood. Scripture says that the present heavens and earth are reserved for burning, until the Day of judgement, when the godless will be destroyed.

Atheists, evolutionists and just simply apathetic people, deny or ignore the obvious fact that something does not come out of nothing; there has to be a Creator.

The reality of the Flood is proved by the geological record and ancient writings.


2 Peter 3:8-9 Dear friends, do not forget; in the Lord’s sight, 1 day is like 1000 years. The Lord is not slow in keeping His promises, He is patient. It is not His will that any be lost, but that all should come to repentance.

2 Peter 3:10-13 The Day of the Lord will come unexpectedly. On that Day, the heavens will dissolve with a roar and flames, then the earth and all those in it will be brought to judgement. Since this will happen, you must live holy and dedicated lives, as you look forward to the renewal of the heavens and earth, where justice will be established.

This passage may allude to Revelation 21, at the end of the Millennium and is often thought to relate to the Return of Jesus, but careful study shows it is neither.

There are many prophecies about the Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath, yet to be fulfilled – which don’t fit this Revelation 21 scenario, or the Return, therefore what Peter is prophesying about is the next event on this earth. The descriptions of the Day of the Lord, are of a soon to happen cleansing of the earth, with earthquakes and fire, which will cleanse the Holy Land and destroy His enemies. Revelation 6:12-17, Isaiah 63:1-6, Isaiah 30:26, Joel 2:1-11, Deut 32:34-43, Psalms 18:7-15, Isaiah 2:12-22.

This will enable the fulfilment of the many prophecies that say how the Lord’s faithful people will gather in all of the area Promised to their spiritual forefathers, by their faith in God and their keeping of the Commandments. The terrible Day of the Lord's wrath is the beginning of events leading up to the Return of Jesus Christ in His glory.
NOW, we look forward to a renewed [cleansed] heaven and earth and the establishment of justice. In the Land of New Israel. Isaiah 35:1-10, Zechariah 8:1-13, Ezekiel 34:11-16

2 Peter 3:17-18 So, dear friends, you have been forewarned. Take care that you do not let anyone seduce you with their errors, hold on to your faith. Grow in grace and in the knowledge of our Lord and saviour, Jesus Christ. To him be the glory, both now and for eternity!
 
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jgr

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How can you dislocate the 70th week from its proper setting?
It is like putting a Ben Hur chariot on the freeway. Come on! Who taught you this madness?

Here's one of them.

John Nelson Darby
"I do not admit history to be, in any sense, necessary to the understanding of prophecy."

When you reject history, you reject the Christ who stepped into history in Daniel's 70th week to sacrifice Himself to redeem humankind from the ravages and penalties of sin.

To reject history is to accept madness.
 
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claninja

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But you apparently aren't agreeing that it is pointing to Titus and the Roman army that did it, and not Jesus.

I believe it was Jesus, who is God, that used titus and the roman armies to destroy Jerusalem in 70ad. They were God's war hammer, just like Babylon was God's war hammer:

Jeremiah 51:20 “You are my hammer and weapon of war: with you I break nations in pieces;
with you I destroy kingdoms;

Jesus even confirms that the King (God) sends armies to destroy and burn the city
Matthew 22:7 The king was angry, and he sent his troops and destroyed those murderers and burned their city.

The Septuagint also confirms that "he" destroys the city and sanctuary WITH "the prince that is coming", Just as Jesus stated the king destroys the city with an army (matthew 22:7).
Daniel 9:26 And after the sixty-two weeks, the anointed one shall be destroyed, and there is no judgment in him: and "HE" shall destroy the city and the sanctuary WITH the "prince that is coming": they shall be cut off with a flood, and to the end of the

And I answered that in my previous post.

Why did you bring up Nebuchadnezzar then?

The Dan.8:9-14 Scripture about the "little horn" is the same one of Dan.7, and the "he" of Dan.9:27, and of Dan.11:21-45 as the "vile person".

The little horn from Daniel 8 is Antiochus

This is Alexander the great:
Daniel 8:21 And the goatd is the king of Greece. And the great horn between his eyes is the first king.

These are the 4 generals that split the Greek empire when Alexander died:
1.) Cassander
2.) Lysimachus
3.) Seleucus
4.) Ptolemy

Daniel 8:22 As for the horn that was broken, in place of which four others arose, four kingdoms shall arise from hise nation, but not with his power.

This is Antiochus, from the seleucids, that appeared at the latter end of the Greek empire
Daniel 8:23 And at the latter end of their kingdom, when the transgressors have reached their limit, a king of bold face, one who understands riddles, shall arise.

is the same one of Dan.7,

The little horn from Daniel 8 is not the same as the little horn from Daniel 7, as the little horn in Daniel 7 comes from the 4th beast which is Rome, not the 3rd beast (Greece)

Notice, the 3rd beast (the leopard) has 4 wings and 4 heads. I would argue this represents the 4 kingdoms that the Greek empire split into.

The 4th kingdom is undeniably rome. The Jews knew this, hence they knew the messiah was near, when the 4th kingdom became the world power.

and the "he" of Dan.9:27

The 'He' of Daniel 9:27 is Christ, the one that confimrs a covenant, the messenger of the covenant:
Malachi 3:1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.

and of Dan.11:21-45 as the "vile person".

Daniel 11:21-35 fits Antiochus perfectly, which can be confirmed with historical records. It's why so many skeptics believe Daniel 11 was written after the fact.

The parameter of ten kings (horns) manifesting with Antiochus Epiphanes did not happen.

When one puts Antiochus into the 4th kingdom (rome), it's easy to see why it could be misinterpreted.

Antiochus belongs to the 3rd beast (greece)
 
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Davy

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I believe it was Jesus, who is God, that used titus and the roman armies to destroy Jerusalem in 70ad. They were God's war hammer, just like Babylon was God's war hammer:

Believing that above and admitting that the Dan.9:26 Scripture is pointing directly to Titus and his army destroying the city and sanctuary are two different things.
 
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BABerean2

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Believing that above and admitting that the Dan.9:26 Scripture is pointing directly to Titus and his army destroying the city and sanctuary are two different things.

It was a Roman hammer that drove the spikes into His hands and feet.
It was a Roman cross to which He was nailed.
It was Roman soldiers who cast lots for His robe.
It was a Roman soldier who pierced His side.

When I looked at the face of the Roman soldier who drove the spikes into His body, I saw my own face staring back at me, because I am the reason all of the above had to be done...


.
 
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Davy

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It is madness. It is a febrile contagion that has swept through the Church. It is a mass delusion.
Have I slurred you? Heavens above, no.

You mean you also have a 'problem' following the Daniel 9 prophecy as written?

Once again:

'sevens' are given to represent years. 3 periods of sevens are given. The KJV uses the idea of 'weeks' instead of sevens.

1st Period - from the time the commanded to restore and build Jerusalem to its finish = 7 weeks (49 years). From 454 B.C. to 404 B.C. when the temple was dedicated.

2nd Period - from the dedication to Messiah = 62 weeks (434 years). From 404 B.C. to 29 A.D. This ended a total of 69 weeks, or 484 years (49 + 434). The amount of sevens determines the end of this period, and it is 7 + 62 weeks which equals 69 weeks, not 7 + 62 + 1. The final "one week" is not given until Dan.9:27.

3rd Period - remaining 1 week for the end. When it is finished, it will total 70 weeks. This final "one week" was not fulfilled after Jesus' crucifixion, as no false Messiah came to exalt himself as God, placing the "abomination of desolation" idol at the temple which Jesus warned of long after Antiochus IV had been dead. This final period has not been able to be fulfilled since Titus and the Romans destroyed the 2nd temple, as the AOD prophecy requires a standing temple. In Rev.11:1-2, for the end, a standing temple is shown existing in Jerusalem.
 
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Davy

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You and I are close on a lot of these things. Probably not in my best interest to debate you about Daniel 9:26b. Regardless who might be correct about that, whether it be me, you, or someone else altogether, it seems we at least have agreement about Daniel 9:27, and Daniel 11 as well, to name a few.

I don't know that we are really that close with believing the same thing, as I would never count Jesus making a seven year covenant and then breaking it after 3.5 years as a possible scenario in Dan.9. That can never apply to our Lord Jesus simply because one would have to assign to Him the title of "vile person", since it's the "vile person" of Dan.11 that makes that "league" which Dan.9:27 is talking about.
 
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