ARE GOD'S 10 COMMANDMENTS ABOLISHED?

Saint Steven

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Is not the same God who gave Moses the Ten Commandments the one who spoke to him from the burning bush? Yet Jesus has this to say about that "Lord".

Luke 20:37-38
But in the account of the burning bush, even Moses showed that the dead rise, for he calls the Lord ‘the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’ 38 He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to him all are alive.”
 
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LoveGodsWord

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It says no such thing. Is bearing false witness one of the Ten?

Now Steve, I could not believe you actually wrote the above which is in reference to

"It is God's WORD that says sin is breaking God's 10 Commandments and that God's 10 Commandment if broken give us a knowledge of what sin is. Your argument is with PAUL, JAMES and JOHN not me my friend. (Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; James 2:8-11)"

Your claim is that God's WORD does not say that if we break God's 10 Commandments it is sin

Yet God's WORD says...

JAMES 2:8-12
[8], If ye fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself, ye do well: [9], But if ye have respect to persons, YOU COMMIT SIN, AND ARE CONVINCED OF THE LAW AS TRANSGRESSORS.
[10], For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
[11] For he that said, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, said also, DO NOT KILL. Now if thou commit NO ADULTERY, yet if thou KILL, YOU ARE BECOME A TRANSGRESSOR OF GOD'S LAW

Yep, James is pretty clear if we brake ANY of God's Law (10 commandments) then we are a TRANSGRESSOR of God's LAW and commit SIN. James quotes two of the 10 Commandments saying that if we break them we commit sin v9 that are summed up in the 2nd great commandments of LOVE to God and LOVE to our neighbour in v11. Maybe you missed that one?

ROMANS 7:7 [7], What shall we say then? is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I HAD NOT KNOWN SIN, BUT BY THE LAW: for I had not known lust, EXCEPT THE LAW HAD SAID YOU SHALL NOT COVET.

Well here we have Paul in agreement with James and John also telling us that he did not know what sin was without God's 10 Commandments. SIN is breaking God's commandments and Paul uses the 10th commandment as an example of breaking any of God's LAW (10 commandments) = SIN (Exodus 20:17)

links to...

1 JOHN 3:4 [4] Whosoever commits SIN transgresses also the law: for SIN is the transgression of the law.

John is saying the same thing as James and Paul and states that if we TRANSGRESS God's LAW then we commit SIN because SIN IS THE TRANSGRESSION OF GOD'S LAW. So it is very clear that SIN is breaking ANY of God's LAW (10 commandments). We will look at the chapter context John uses v15 of MURDER as an example of sin which is God's 6th Command of the 10.

God's WORD in both the OLD and NEW TESTAMENT says very clearly that if we break ANY of the 10 Commandments it is indeed SIN.

...................

SIN IN THE OLD TESTAMENT BREAKING THE 10 COMMANDMENTS (Summarized)

God said in Genesis 4:7 to Cain when he was angry because he did not worship God in his appointed way that by doing this it was sin. Jesus say the same in Matthew 15:3-9 that if we follow and teachings of men that break the commandments of God we are not following God. Mankind was destroyed by a flood because of sin (Genesis 6:5-7).

Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed because of sin (Genesis 18:20). Jacob knew about sin when he complained to Laben when he left with his daughters (Genesis 31:36).

When Potiphar’s wife came to Joseph with the aim of committing adultery, Joseph knew it was sin and protested saying how then can I do this great wickedness, and sin against God? (Genesis 39:9).

God said that if Israel was not to make a covenant with the other nations and serve their god's it would be sin (Exodus 23:33). When Moses was delayed on the Mount with God the children of ISRAEL made an Idol and worshipped it breaking God's 1st and 2nd commandment (Exodus 20:3-5). Moses said to them after he returned, you have sinned a great sin: and now I will go up unto the LORD; perhaps I shall make an atonement for your sin (Exodus 32:30; Deuteronomy 9:16-18). Moses said to Aaron that by making an idol for the people to worship that it was a great sin (Exodus 32:21; 30). God would punish the children of Israel for their sin of Idol worship (Exodus 32:34).

God said to Moses in reference to breaking the 10 Commandments; Whosoever has sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book (Exodus 32:33).

God said that if Israel was not to make a covenant with the other nations and serve their god's it would be sin (Exodus 23:33). Joshua says stealing is sin (Joshua 7:11). Achan knew when he was caught stealing that he sinned (Joshua 7:20).

When God's people forsake God to worship other God's, they also confess that they had sinned in breaking God's commandments (Judges 10:10;15). Samuel made atonement for God's people when they wanted to return to God confessing that they had sinned after they worshipped other Gods breaking God's 1st and 2nd commandments (1 Samuel 7:5; 12:10; Exodus 20:2-5).

King Saul wanted to kill David, but Jonathon spoke good of David saying to him no to sin against David by killing him (1 Samuel 19:4). David cut the skirt of King Saul in the cave and said to him that he could have killed him if he wanted to but did not sin against him by sparing his life (1 Samuel 24:11). King Saul replied that in wanting to kill David he had sinned (1 Samuel 26:21).

When David became king he desired Bathsheba who was another man’s wife and organized for her husband Uriah the Hitite to be sent to the front line of battle to be killed. God sent Nathan to David and David confessed in doing this that he had sinned in breaking God's 6th and 7th Commandment (Exodus 20:13:14). David confessed that he had sinned to breaking God's LAW (1 Samuel 12:13).

Now we can also go through all the evil Kings of Israel that sinned against God by following and worshipping other Gods which is also defined as sin in God's WORD but there would be too many scriptures (2 Kings 17:7). God testified that they served other Gods and idols sending them prophets to warn them of their sins (2 Kings 17:12-13; 16-17). We are also told that King Manasseh also broke God's 6th commandment and killed more innocent people then most others testifying that by doing this he had sinned (2 Kings 16:17). God continued to send prophets to warn his people of the consequences of sin (Nehemiah 9:30). God's people continued in their sins forsaking God's LAW (10 commandments) and in doing so God left them and Israel were overthrown and led into captivity to the other nations because they departed from God serving other God's and idols. Nehemiah knew this and prayed to God confessing their sins (Nehemiah 1:6-9). God's people continued to sin against God by worshipping other Gods despite the warning of Jeremiah (Jeremiah 44:18-23). In despite of God's Word teaching that God's people had forsaken the 10 commandments and sinned against God, going into captivity, God promised he would bring them back when they returned to him and heal them from their sins of breaking his commandments (Ezekiel 37:22-23).

Hosea testified by the Word of the Lord that God's people by making idols and worshipping other god's, lying, stealing, killing, committing adultery would receive the judgments of God because they had sinned by departing from the 10 Commandments (Hosea 4:1-19).

The word of the Lord came to Zephaniah saying that all those who continue in sin by worshipping other God's and breaking his commandments will be destroyed off the land because they have sinned against God (Zephaniah 1:2-17).

................

Yep pretty clear that in the OLD TESTAMENT if God's people broke any of the 10 Commandments it was SIN.

Sorry Steve, God's WORD disagrees with you. :wave:
 
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LoveGodsWord

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That's some interesting logic there.

A) My cap has a bill
B) A duck has a bill
Therefore) My cap is a duck

How could Jesus say this if what you are claiming is true?

John 15:10
If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love.

Because Jesus and the Farther are one. (John 10:30). How can Jesus and the Father be one if they have different laws?
 
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LoveGodsWord

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The new covenant can't be the new covenant unless it is a new covenant.
If the new covenant is not a new covenant, then it is still the old covenant.
You can't write the old covenant from stone to a heart and call it a new covenant.
Nothing has changed to make the covenant new.

Hebrews 8:7
For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another.

Hebrews 8:13
By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

Hebrews 8:9
It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt...

Your making an argument no one is arguing about. The OLD COVENANT was written on stone and in a book. The NEW COVENANT is written in the heart to LOVE (Hebrews 8:10-12; Romans 13:8-10; Matthew 22:36-40) God's LAW on stone brings us to the NEW COVENANT in the SPIRIT (Galatians 3:22-25; 2 Corinthians 3:3-11; Hebrews 8:10-12; Matthew 22:36-40; Romans 13:8-10; James 2:8-11).

Hope this helps :wave:
 
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Saint Steven

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Now Steve, I could not believe you actually wrote the above which is in reference to

"It is God's WORD that says sin is breaking God's 10 Commandments and that God's 10 Commandment if broken give us a knowledge of what sin is. Your argument is with PAUL, JAMES and JOHN not me my friend. (Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; James 2:8-11)"
None of those verses says sin is breaking the Ten Commandments. Period.

Romans 3:20
Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.

Romans 7:7
What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.”

James 2:8-11
If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, “Love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing right. 9 But if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law as lawbreakers. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. 11 For he who said, “You shall not commit adultery,” also said, “You shall not murder.” If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker.
 
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Saint Steven

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Because Jesus and the Farther are one. (John 10:30). How can Jesus and the Father be one if they have different laws?
Ask the Apostle Paul.

1 Corinthians 9:21
To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law.
 
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Saint Steven

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Never changed it. Jesus is God.
Who was Jesus talking about here?
Do you disagree that the same Lord who spoke from the burning bush wrote the Ten Commandments?

Luke 20:37-38
But in the account of the burning bush, even Moses showed that the dead rise, for he calls the Lord ‘the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’ 38 He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to him all are alive.”
 
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Saint Steven

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Your making an argument no one is arguing about. The OLD COVENANT was written on stone and in a book. The NEW COVENANT is written in the heart to LOVE (Hebrews 8:10-12; Romans 13:8-10; Matthew 22:36-40) God's LAW on stone brings us to the NEW COVENANT in the SPIRIT (Galatians 3:22-25; 2 Corinthians 3:3-11; Hebrews 8:10-12; Matthew 22:36-40; Romans 13:8-10; James 2:8-11).

Hope this helps :wave:
What is the difference between the old covenant and the new covenant?
One sentence, no links. Thanks.
 
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Zoii

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Jesus didnt come to abolish the law. The 10 commandments still stand.
Hmmmm I have trouble with that... I think the 10 commandments are applied when we feel like it

Thou shall not kill - well we make excuses for that one all the time - self defence, war, executions etc etc
Honour thy mother and father - yea sure - if they deserve to be honoured; otherwise stay away from them.

Thous shall not steal or covert - unless your big enough to call yourself a nation and have a big army - then hey take what you can.

Rest on the Sabbath - well that's great for some but we'd have no hospitals or infrastructure functioning 7 days a week if we applied that one
 
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LoveGodsWord

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None of those verses says sin is breaking the Ten Commandments. Period.

Romans 3:20
Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.

Romans 7:7
What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.”

James 2:8-11
If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, “Love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing right. 9 But if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law as lawbreakers. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. 11 For he who said, “You shall not commit adultery,” also said, “You shall not murder.” If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker.

Now Steve,

Are you trying to make an argument that if the words 'the ten commandments" are not used in a scripture despite the context of the scriptures talking about the 10 Commandments and naming them then they cannot be the ten commandments?

Well none of that is true at all. The scripture and within chapter context shows what laws are being discussed. EVERYONE of the scriptures posted to you in post # 662 linked click me, from the OLD and NEW TESTAMENT scriptures states examples of at least one or more of the 10 Commandments.

So the topic and CONTEXT of proof is the 10 COMMANDMNENTS and there is a lot of scripture in both the OLD and NEW COVENANT that proves that if we break any of the 10 COMMANDMNENTS we commit sin.

Just because the word "the Ten Commandments" is not used within the scripture does not mean the scripture is not talking about the 10 Commandments as shown in every scriptures in post # 662 linked click me.

Sorry Steve God's WORD disagrees with you. :wave:
 
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Saint Steven

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Now Steve,

Are you trying to make an argument that if the words 'the ten commandments" are not used in a scripture despite the context of the scriptures talking about the 10 Commandments and naming them then they cannot be the ten commandments?

Well none of that is true at all. The scripture and within chapter context shows what laws are being discussed. EVERYONE of the scriptures posted to you in post # 662 linked click me, from the OLD and NEW TESTAMENT scriptures states examples of at least one or more of the 10 Commandments.

So the topic and CONTEXT of proof is the 10 COMMANDMNENTS and there is a lot of scripture in both the OLD and NEW COVENANT that proves that if we break any of the 10 COMMANDMNENTS we commit sin.

Just because the word "the Ten Commandments" is not used within the scripture does not mean the scripture is not talking about the 10 Commandments as shown in every scriptures in post # 662 linked click me.

Sorry Steve God's WORD disagrees with you. :wave:
The scripture you presented does not support your claim.
In every case the whole law, not just the Ten is being referred to.
If you are under the law, you are under the WHOLE law.
The law is a singular thing. All 613 commandments.
Which of the 613 can you break and not sin?
 
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LoveGodsWord

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The scripture you presented does not support your claim.
In every case the whole law, not just the Ten is being referred to.
If you are under the law, you are under the WHOLE law.
The law is a singular thing. All 613 commandments.
Which of the 613 can you break and not sin?

Sorry Steve that has no truth in it at all. I think we will have to agree to disagree

Just one of too many scriptures...

ROMANS 7:7 [7], What shall we say then? is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I HAD NOT KNOWN SIN, BUT BY THE LAW: for I had not known lust, EXCEPT THE LAW HAD SAID YOU SHALL NOT COVET.

For more scripture showing that breaking any of God's 10 Commandments is sin please click here.

If you break any of God's 10 Commandments you commit sin. Those who continue in known unrepentant sin will not enter the kingdom of heaven (James 2:9-11; 1 John 3:4; Romans 7:7; Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sorry Steve God's WORD disagrees with you :wave:
 
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Saint Steven

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Sorry Steve that has no truth in it at all. I think we will have to agree to disagree

Just one of too many scriptures...

ROMANS 7:7 [7], What shall we say then? is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I HAD NOT KNOWN SIN, BUT BY THE LAW: for I had not known lust, EXCEPT THE LAW HAD SAID YOU SHALL NOT COVET.

For more scripture showing that breaking any of God's 10 Commandments is sin please click here.

If you break any of God's 10 Commandments you commit sin. Those who continue in known unrepentant sin will not enter the kingdom of heaven (James 2:9-11; 1 John 3:4; Romans 7:7; Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sorry Steve God's WORD disagrees with you :wave:
I don't understand how you can claim to be THE authority concerning WHAT God's word says. ???

Can you explain why the scriptures that I quote are NOT God's word, while the scriptures you quote ARE God's word?

How can you make the proclamation that "God's WORD disagrees" with me, when it is ONLY your opinion about it that disagrees? What makes your OPINION superior to mine? Or worse, what makes YOUR opinion "God's WORD"?
 
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LoveGodsWord

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I don't understand how you can claim to be THE authority concerning WHAT God's word says. ???
I don't, I just present the Word of God and let it do the talking as shown above.
Can you explain why the scriptures that I quote are NOT God's word, while the scriptures you quote ARE God's word?
Indeed. God's WORD does not teach lawlessness.
How can you make the proclamation that "God's WORD disagrees" with me, when it is ONLY your opinion about it that disagrees? What makes your OPINION superior to mine? Or worse, what makes YOUR opinion "God's WORD"?
You made claims that breaking God's 10 commandments is not committing sin. You were shown scriptures from the OLD and NEW TESTAMENT showing that if we break any of God's 10 commandments we commit sin.

Please see all the scriptures provided in post # 662 above linked click me

So thats why I stated God's Word disagrees with you only based on the scriptures provided. If we break any of God's 10 commandments we commit sin. All those who continue in known unrepetant sin will not enter into the kingdom of heaven (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Hope this helps :wave:
 
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expos4ever

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Oy.

Let's talk about Romans 7:7

What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.”

Is Paul referring to one of the 10 commandments here? Indeed he is.

Does this mean that the term "Law" here denotes the 10 commandments?

To borrow a phrase from Paul: Certainly not.

The Law is the Law of Moses. Period. Full stop. For the Jew, the Law of Moses was a monolothic thing - one block of 613 edicts from God that they are to follow.

Yes, Paul says that the Law - the Law of Moses - gave (past tense!) him knowledge of sin.

But that certainly does not mean the Law of Moses - including the 10 - are still in force and there is no other way for Paul to gain knowledge of sin!

In fact, not but 2 seconds earlier Paul has declared we no longer serve the Law! And, to boot, that we are now under the Spirit! One does not need a degree from Harvard to realize that the Spirit has the ability to do the job of letting us in on what is sin.

Also, the fact that Paul picks an example that happens to be one of 10 commandments does not mean he is magically changing the fact that "the Law" is all 613 elements of the Law of Moses!

Verily, all this causeth me to rend my garments......
 
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Saint Steven

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I don't, I just present the Word of God and let it do the talking as shown above. …
Just? You "just" present the "Word of God". You know that's not true. You put your own spin on it and then declare it is "God's WORD". Which is not true. Additionally you threaten other posters with God's judgement if they don't accept your opinions without question.

Just? I don't think so.
 
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Saint Steven

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Indeed. God's WORD does not teach lawlessness. …
That doesn't explain why the scriptures that I quote are NOT God's word, while the scriptures you quote ARE God's word?
 
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Saint Steven

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You made claims that breaking God's 10 commandments is not committing sin. You were shown scriptures from the OLD and NEW TESTAMENT showing that if we break any of God's 10 commandments we commit sin. …

So thats why I stated God's Word disagrees with you only based on the scriptures provided. If we break any of God's 10 commandments we commit sin. All those who continue in known unrepetant sin will not enter into the kingdom of heaven (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Hope this helps :wave:
You are claiming things as the Ten Commandments for which you have no proof. Where does the Bible define "the law", or "God's law", or the "whole law" as the Ten Commandments?
 
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