Importance of the Perpetual Virginity of Mary?

prodromos said:

Well, apart from what is peculiar to Catholic beliefs (purgatory) the rest has been the consistent experience of the Church for almost 2000 years.

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Ok so then in another 1451 years then purgatory becomes a true doctrine because it’s 2000 years old?

prodromos said:

Well, apart from what is peculiar to Catholic beliefs (purgatory) the rest has been the consistent experience of the Church for almost 2000 years.

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Ok so then in another 1451 years then purgatory becomes a true doctrine?

BNR32FAN said:

Ok let’s just get everything out in the open here and look at the bigger picture. Mary never sinner, not supported by the scriptures. Mary remained a virgin, not supported by scriptures. Mary’s assumption, not supported by scriptures. Mary can have people removed from purgatory because she asked Jesus to make wine at the wedding of Cana and He did, not supported by scriptures and a pretty ridiculous assertion. Mary and the saints can hear prayers, not supported by scriptures. Are we starting to see a pattern here?

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Christianity existed long before the scriptures. The 300 years of original teachings of Christianity don't need to be scrapped on account of them not being included in scripture.

Landon Caeli said:

What commands of God did Mary not follow? Also, who was Mary fighting?

The point remains that Mary was an honerable person who spoke to angels and had the Holy Spirit place God in her womb. It's not too hard to imagine she was celibate, unless one is of a sex crazed mentality -those wouldn't be able to comprehend such purity.

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Well forgive my "sex-crazed" mentality because it makes no sense to me. Lol..

As for Holiness, we are all right now the Temple of the Living God if we are indeed His children..we are all filled with the Holy Spirit yet we still visit the marriage bed, still use the restroom and shower/dress in front of GOD even after the indwelling occurs.

Therefore, to say that Mary is exempt from cleaving to her husband and procreating, exempt from dictates of scripture for how a husband and his wife are to be toward one another.. such as found in 1 Corinthians 7:3-5 would be wrong.

God is the same yesterday, today and always. Having marital relations with your spouse is not evil, and it is a command for married people.

If God wanted Mary perpetually a virgin she wouldn't have been married.

Tutorman said:

Bible alone is a doctrine for many evangelicals and it is not Biblical at all.

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I always wonder, when I read declarations like that one, who it is that the writer
intends it for.


Being that it is completely absent of any argument or reasoning or evidence, I immediately think the writer must have needed to bolster his own beliefs for some reason or other.

Landon Caeli said:

Christianity existed long before the scriptures. The 300 years of original teachings of Christianity don't need to be scrapped on account of them not being included in scripture.

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I’m sorry my friend but your wrong all of the original manuscripts of the New Testament were written in the first century. They were canonized in 382AD.

Landon Caeli said:

Christianity existed long before the scriptures. The 300 years of original teachings of Christianity don't need to be scrapped on account of them not being included in scripture.

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I’m sorry my friend but your wrong all of the original manuscripts of the New Testament were written in the first century. They were canonized in 382AD.

Hazelelponi said:

Well forgive my "sex-crazed" mentality because it makes no sense to me. Lol..

As for Holiness, we are all right now the Temple of the Living God if we are indeed His children..we are all filled with the Holy Spirit yet we still visit the marriage bed, still use the restroom and shower/dress in front of GOD even after the indwelling occurs.

Therefore, to say that Mary is exempt from cleaving to her husband and procreating, exempt from dictates of scripture for how a husband and his wife are to be toward one another.. such as found in 1 Corinthians 7:3-5 would be wrong.

God is the same yesterday, today and always. Having marital relations with your spouse is not evil, and it is a command for married people.

If God wanted Mary perpetually a virgin she wouldn't have been married.

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Lol.. You conveniently skipped verses 1, 2, and 6. I'll post them.

1 Corinthians 7:1-6

Landon Caeli said:

It's not too hard to imagine she was celibate, unless one is of a sex crazed mentality -those wouldn't be able to comprehend such purity.

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That was a rather disappointing response. I had planned to ignore the rest of this thread, until I saw that you had posted. I've always regarded you as a sensible opponent, not given to personal attacks, and I wanted to see what your explanation was regarding the importance of Mary's perpetual virginity.

If you answered the question earlier, then maybe I missed it, but whether or not Mary was a perpetual virgin was not intended to be the subject of the thread. If she wasn't then what difference does it make? Why does it even matter? She was a married woman. That's what married women do. Had she not been a perpetual virgin, then what, in your opinion, would have been the terrible result? You see, I have to ask, because all of my faith is in Jesus, and I regard the miracle of the virgin birth as a sign of whom Jesus was, but after his birth her virginity would have no consequence, as far as I can tell. The salvation of humanity rests on his shoulders, not hers. So what difference does it make?

For the record, I'm not sex-crazed.

Landon Caeli said:

It's not too hard to imagine she was celibate, unless one is of a sex crazed mentality -those wouldn't be able to comprehend such purity.

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That was a rather disappointing response. I had planned to ignore the rest of this thread, until I saw that you had posted. I've always regarded you as a sensible opponent, not given to personal attacks, and I wanted to see what your explanation was regarding the importance of Mary's perpetual virginity.

If you answered the question earlier, then maybe I missed it, but whether or not Mary was a perpetual virgin was not intended to be the subject of the thread. If she wasn't then what difference does it make? Why does it even matter? She was a married woman. That's what married women do. Had she not been a perpetual virgin, then what, in your opinion, would have been the terrible result? You see, I have to ask, because all of my faith is in Jesus, and I regard the miracle of the virgin birth as a sign of whom Jesus was, but after his birth her virginity would have no consequence, as far as I can tell. The salvation of humanity rests on his shoulders, not hers. Is she a go

For the record, I'm not sex-crazed, but I see no reason at all to believe that she was celibate past the birth of Christ.

Landon Caeli said:

No, some people really do live honorable lives.

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Yes but only one man lived a sinless life.

BNR32FAN said:

I’m sorry my friend but your wrong all of the original manuscripts of the New Testament were written in the first century. They were canonized in 382AD.

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What"s your point, considering they were locked away and nobody ever heard of them until hundreds if years later?

Landon Caeli said:

What"s your point, considering they were locked away and nobody ever heard of them until hundreds if years later?

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The point is that’s where the teachings were coming from. The church did have the writings of the apostles to refer to to base their teachings on. They weren’t just handed down by word of mouth for 300+ years as you suggested.

Landon Caeli said:

Lol.. You conveniently skipped verses 1, 2, and 6. I'll post them.

1 Corinthians 7:1-6

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Verses 1,2 and 6 don't matter - they only confirm it is for the purposes of sex that we marry.

Paul's opinion was certainly his own and given his background it's understandable... but it doesn't diminish the fact that marriage was at least partially created for sex and procreation, and if you marry you should not abandon that aspect of the institution.

What he never said is that we should be monastic and married at the same time.

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BNR32FAN said:

No you will see the smoke of incense mixed with the prayers of God’s people. Nothing about prayers to the saints. Same thing with Revelation 5:8 you will see the prayers of the saints not the prayers to the saints.

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BNR32FAN said:

No you will see the smoke of incense mixed with the prayers of God’s people. Nothing about prayers to the saints. Same thing with Revelation 5:3 you will see the prayers of the saints not the prayers to the saints.


Yeah this happens every once in a while.

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Sorry I meant revelation 5:8 if you read it you’d see the Saints offer up prayers to God. Both Roman Catholic and Orthodox believe that isn’t directed at saints rather their prayers are offered to God on our behalf.

nonaeroterraqueous said:

That was a rather disappointing response. I had planned to ignore the rest of this thread, until I saw that you had posted. I've always regarded you as a sensible opponent, not given to personal attacks, and I wanted to see what your explanation was regarding the importance of Mary's perpetual virginity.

If you answered the question earlier, then maybe I missed it, but whether or not Mary was a perpetual virgin was not intended to be the subject of the thread. If she wasn't then what difference does it make? Why does it even matter? She was a married woman. That's what married women do. Had she not been a perpetual virgin, then what, in your opinion, would have been the terrible result? You see, I have to ask, because all of my faith is in Jesus, and I regard the miracle of the virgin birth as a sign of whom Jesus was, but after his birth her virginity would have no consequence, as far as I can tell. The salvation of humanity rests on his shoulders, not hers. So what difference does it make?

For the record, I'm not sex-crazed.

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I think it's archaic to throw everyone off to the side who isn't Jesus. We don't worship Jesus because he was sinless or perpetually a virgin. Those are just his attributes... We worship Jesus because He is GOD.

Mary's perpetual virginity takes nothing from Jesus.

The Saints are God’s people, if you read revelation 8:4 you’d see the Saints offering our prayers to God, so there is a hint of intercession there.

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Al Masihi said:

Sorry I meant revelation 5:8 if you read it you’d see the Saints offer up prayers to God. Both Roman Catholic and Orthodox believe that isn’t directed at saints rather their prayers are offered to God on our behalf.

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You called it a "hint of intercession" in your previous post because, I assume, you know that there is nothing there about intercession at all.

I see the argument being used all the time that the saints praying to God FOR mortals collectively supposedly proves something about mortals praying TO the saints, but there is no connection between the two.

Albion said:

You called it a "hint of intercession" in your previous post because, I assume, you know that there is nothing there about intercession at all.

I see the argument being used all the time that the saints praying to God FOR mortals collectively supposedly proves something about mortals praying TO the saints, but there is no connection between the two.

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Yes I’d did, praying can mean many things not necessarily worship. I believe we ask or talk to Saints in the form of prayer, they then pray for us and with us and bring our petitions to God.

Landon Caeli said:

I think it's archaic to throw everyone off to the side who isn't Jesus. We don't worship Jesus because he was sinless or perpetually a virgin. Those are just his attributes... We worship Jesus because He is GOD.

Mary's perpetual virginity takes nothing from Jesus.

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It does take something from Jesus because the Bible claims He had brothers and sisters.

If Mary was a perpetual virgin then that means there were several miraculous births. If God was behind all those virgin births, and who else could have been?, then God had a whole lot of begotten children and not just one only Begotten Son.

Hazelelponi said:

It does take something from Jesus because the Bible claims He had brothers and sisters.

If Mary was a perpetual virgin then that means there were several miraculous births. If God was behind all those virgin births, and who else could have been?, then God had a whole lot of begotten children and not just one only Begotten Son.

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Cousins. The word for brother and cousin was the same during those times.