IS IT SIN TO BREAK THE 10 COMMANDMENTS? (Yep!)

Stormy

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Op forgive me for not wanting to read your wall of text. Probably just copy and paste anyway.

My thoughts... The ten commandments are not that incredibly difficult. And yes, if you sin and really feel convicted then God will forgive. He knows we are human and sin is really easy for us. But at the same time, God is not going to lower is standards and say that sin is not sin. Cause it is.
 
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We obviously have to obey the Moral Law (like: Do not murder, Do not covet, Do not steal, etc.) as a part of being right with God after we seek forgiveness with the Lord Jesus Christ and believe in His death and resurrection (for salvation), but the Saturday Sabbath (observing it from sundown Friday to sundown Saturday) is not a binding commandment for the church. In fact, you will find no commandment given anywhere in the New Testament for Christians to obey the Sabbath. In fact, on the contrary, Paul says,

"Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days" (Colossians 2:16).

So if we are not to let any man judge us according to sabbath days, that means the Saturday Sabbath is no longer binding.

Also, the OT was more than just the 10. There were a total of 613 commands. Are you obeying all of them?

Also, Hebrews 7:12 says the law has changed. So that means the OT is no longer a binding covenant. Jesus's blood was representative of the New Covenant He would make with us. This was mentioned in the Lord's supper prior to his death. His shed blood was the New Testament or New Covenant. A New Covenant means that the Old Covenant is now gone. You cannot put new wine into old wine skins otherwise the skins will burst.

At the counsel at Jerusalem, the apostles said this,

"And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved." (Acts of the Apostles 15:1).

Now, pay careful close attention here to this next verse.

"But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses." (Acts of the Apostles 15:5).

Now, I want you to really pay close attention to the apostle's response to this.

"Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment" (Acts of the Apostles 15:24).

to...whom...we...gave...no....such....commandment.

Yeah, that sounds pretty clear to me that we do not have to keep the Law of Moses. Not sure how you can do backflips around these above verses. The Bible is clear. We are under a New Covenant with New Commands. We are to follow the commands given to us by Jesus and His followers. For we are called Christians because we follow Christ.

"For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ." (John 1:17).
 
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mmksparbud

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"Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days" (Colossians 2:16).

So if we are not to let any man judge us according to sabbath days, that means the Saturday Sabbath is no longer binding.

This is not talking about The Sabbath Day--but sabbath Days--the Jewish feasts were called sabbaths, also. This was Paul talking to the new Christians and telling them to not let the Jews intimidate them about them having to keep the feast days--sabbaths.

The over 600 laws were dealing with the sacrificial system. All those were done away with at the cross for Jesus is our Sacrificial Lamb--and also our High Priest. The laws of Moses, the ceremonial laws, were kept outside the ark of the covenant---only the 10, those alone, were written by the hand of God Himself, and were kept in the middle of the ark itself.
There was a loud and very boisterous upheaval over the fact that circumcision was no longer needed. It was quite the uproar until they finally had to make it very clear and plain that it was no longer needed. If the 4th commandment had been abolished, there would have been an even greater uproar and upheaval and it would have had to be very clearly and very plainly stated that it was no longer needed either---there was no such thing said about it.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Hello brother Der Alter, nice to see you here and welcome. Some comments for your consideration below.
The Sabbath was given exclusively to the children of Israel.
Lev 24:8 Every Sabbath he shall set it in order before the LORD continually, being tak.en from the children of Israel by an everlasting covenant.
Exo 31:16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.​
Indeed. What is the name ISRAEL and where did it come from? UNDER the NEW COVENANT if you are not a part of God's ISRAEL you have no part in the NEW COVENANT (Hebrews 8:10-12). Gentiles are now grafted in to God's ISRAEL. (Romans 11:16-27).

ROMANS 9:6-8 [6], FOR THEY ARE NOT ALL ISRAEL WHICH ARE OF ISRAEL,: [7], NEITHER, BECAUSE THEY ARE THE SEED OF ABRAHAM, ARE THEY ALL CHILDREN: but in Isaac shall thy seed be called <Christ> [8], That is, THEY WHICH ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE FLESH, THESE ARE NOT THE CHILDREN OF GOD: BUT THE CHILDREN OF THE PROMISE <those who believe> ARE COUNTED FOR THE SEED.

All those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD are God's ISRAEL under the NEW COVENANT and your correct God's 4th Commandment is an everlasting covenant.
Paul met with the Jewish leaders in Jerusalem and they decided this was what gentile Christians were required to do. Here would have been a good place to tell gentiles they had to observe the Sabbath and all the other feasts and festivals in the OT.
Acts of the apostles 15:19-21
(19) "It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God.
(20) Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood.
(21) For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath."
Acts of the apostles 15:28-29
(28) It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements:
(29) You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things. Farewell.
Acts of the apostles 21:24-25
(24) Take these men, join in their purification rites and pay their expenses, so that they can have their heads shaved. Then everyone will know there is no truth in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in obedience to the law.
(25) As for the Gentile believers, we have written to them our decision that they should abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality."​
You need to go back to the CONTEXT of the chapter to understand what ACTS 15 is talking about here to define the topic of conversation that the chapter is trying to address. Let's determine the topic of conversation and the question that the chapter is trying to decide on.

ACTS 15:1:21
[1], And certain men who came down from Judea taught the brethren, and said, Except you be circumcised after the manner of Moses, you cannot be saved.

...........

NOTE: ACTS 15:1 is the question that needs to be answered and the topic of conversation and CONTEXT of the chapter of ACTS 15. Here we have Jewish believers coming to Paul and Barnabas saying if the new GENTILES believers are not circumcised and made proselytes then they cannot be saved. This is the chapter context and issue of contention.

...........

[2], When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and dispute with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.

...........

NOTE: ACTS 15:2 there was much arguing over the claims of the Jewish believers who are claiming that unless the gentiles are circumcised they cannot be saved. They then determined that Paul and Barnabas must go to Jerusalem to the Apostles and elders ABOUT THIS QUESTION. Which question? Weather your salvation depends on being CIRCUMCISED.

They then travelled to Jerusalem about this question to determine if new gentile believers needed to be CIRCUMCISED in order to be saved. Once they got to Jerusalem, the question was then asked and the discussion continued with the Pharasees stating their cas first..

...........

[5], But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees who believed, saying, It is needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

...........

NOTE: KEEP in mind here the question was never over if gentile believers should obey God's 10 Commandments but to keep the Shadow laws of Moses, in this case CIRCUMCISION as a means of salvation.

...........

[6], And the apostles and elders came together to consider this matter.
[7], And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, you know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
[8], And God, who knows the hearts, bore them witness, giving them the Holy Spirit, even as he did unto us;

...........

NOTE: After much discussion between the Apostles, Peter then rose up showing that God gave the gentile believers the Holy Spirit being uncircumcised.

...........

[9], And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
[10], Now therefore why test God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
[11], But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

...........

NOTE: They came to the conclusion then that salvation is not by being circumcised but be what circumcision pointed to. A new heart by faith. This is made plain latter in other scripture written by PAUL here...

ROMANS 2 [25] For circumcision verily profits, if you keep the law: but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision is made uncircumcision. [26], Therefore if the uncircumcision keeps the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? [27], And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfils the law, judge you, who by the letter and circumcision do transgress the law? [28], FOR HE IS NOT A JEW, WHO IS ONE; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OF THE OUTWARD FLESH: [29], BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; AND CIRCUMCISION IS THAT OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT AND NOT IN THE LETTER; WHOSE PRAISE IS NOT OF MEN BUT OF GOD.

If ACTS 15 was talking about the 10 Commandments then Pauls writings in to the CORITHIANS do not make any sense.

1 CORITHIANS 7 [19] CIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, AND UNCIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, BUT THE KEEPING OF THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD.

The scripture above is a contradiction of how some interpret the outcome of ACTS 15

You do not believe brother Der Alter, that we are now free to break any of God's 10 Commandments now do you?

...........

[12], Then all the multitude kept silence, and listened to Barnabas and Paul declaring what miracles and wonders God had done among the Gentiles by them.
[13], And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:
[14], Simeon has declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
[15], And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
[16], After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
[17], That the rest of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, says the Lord, who does all these things.
[18], Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
[19], Therefore my judgment is, that we trouble not them, who from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
[20], But that we write unto them, that they abstain from defilements of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
[21], For Moses of old time has in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

.................

CONCLUSION
So the conclusion of the matter. v19-20 We are not to trouble the new gentile believers with CIRCUMCISION as a means of salvation. They are new converts they will learn more about God as Moses is preached when? EVERY SABBATH. WE just tell the new believers because they will be learning every Sabbath to abstain from defilements of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

Hope this helps. :wave:
 
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LoveGodsWord

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God will still judge everyone by the law and everyone will be punished and rewarded according to what they have done. See Romans 2. "You will reap what you sow."

Hi brother FatalHeart, welcome here and thanks for your thoughts. This is an important point you have raised I think as if we believe we can break any of God's commandments and still be saved, many will be disappointed at Christs return.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts brother :wave:
 
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LoveGodsWord

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I am alive in God's rest, the Sabbath, righteousness. I don't focus on stopping sin by obeying the law. I focus on learning about our Lord Jesus and God's Holy Spirit. I allow God's Spirit to change me from within so that the desire to love grows and the desire to harm others.

I don't break any of God's commandments because I have no desire to steal, kill, cover, etc, ...

It is not what you do but how you do it. God wants us to trust in his Spirit and not in ourselves. The Tower of Babylon represents all those people who try to attain heaven through their own efforts. Judaism, Islam, plus many Christians do this.

Let go and let God create a new being, in his image. God's rest is eternal.

Amen.

Hello brother Yarddog,

Thanks for sharing your thought here and so nice to meet you :)
So where does it say in God's Word that Jesus is a Sabbath? I see he is the LORD of the Sabbath but the scriptures only teach that the Sabbath is a day that we rest in him on the SEVENTH DAY of the week.

Your correct and this is stated in the OP here. We are never saved by what we do but only as we have faith in the precious blood of Jesus. However once we come to Jesus we follow him because we LOVE him and LOVE is the fulfilling of God's LAW in all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD. This is the NEW COVENANT promise or righteousness by faith, being born again by the operation of a new heart to LOVE and it is LOVE that fulfills God's LAW in those who believe his Word (Romans 13:8-10; Matthew 22:36-40; Hebrews 8:10-12)

Thanks for sharing your thoughts brother :wave:
 
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LoveGodsWord

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If God needs people to work Saturdays, what business is it of yours? The hospitals are open on Saturday. The gas stations are open on Saturday. You may rest or work any day you want. Whether it is better to have one day off or two, most prefer two. Some would rather work 90 hours a week for it is profitable for them to do so.

In the days of Jesus the religious teachers of the day had placed so many man made traditions around Sabbath keeping that it had become a burden to the people. It was though in their eyes MANKIND was made for the Sabbath. It was so bad in fact that these religious teachers were constantly looking for ways to accuse Jesus of breaking the Sabbath (Matt 12:1-2; 10; Mark 3:2'; Luke 6:1-2).

Jesus rebuked these religious teachers by saying that the Sabbath was made for MAN and NOT MAN for the SABBATH (Mark 2:27 and that he was the CREATOR or LORD of the Sabbath (Mark 2:28) and it was LAWFUL to do GOOD on the SABBATH (Matt 12:12)

Jesus did God's WORK on the Sabbath and so should we everyday but God's WORK is not the work we are commanded NOT to do on God's Sabbath for it is lawful to do GOOD on the Sabbath.

Have you not read what David did, when he was hungry, and they that were with him; How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the showbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them who were with him, but only for the priests?

Or have you not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless? Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? How much then is a man better than a sheep? Therefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.

GOD'S 4TH COMMANDMENT

Exodus 20
8,
Remember the SABBATH DAY, to KEEP IT HOLY. <Why?> Because God made it Holy for mankind and commands us to keep it as a Holy day)
9, Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work:
10, But the SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: <WHY>
11, For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the SEVENTH DAY: wherefore the LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH, and HALLOWED IT.

Doing GOD'S WORK is NOT what the 4th Commandment is talking about please read it.

God's 4th Commandments says we are NOT to do OUR OWN WORK. Yep NO secular business or paid work, no unnecessary domestic work, no buying and selling, shopping. This can be done on the other days of the week. God has made the SEVENTH DAY a HOLY DAY and we are to REST in HIM by FAITH in the LORD of the SABBATH. This is the 4th Commandment and one of the God's 10.

.......................

SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4). Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

.......................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Why impose on us a law Jesus did not follow?

Jesus is our example and he kept the Sabbath
(Matt 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56; John 2:6; Matt 16:24; 1 Cor 11:1; Eph 5:1-21; Pet 2:20-22)

The Apostle kept the Sabbath even after the death of Jesus
(Acts 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4; Rev 1:10)

Galatians 4:9-10 9 But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, why do you turn back again to the weak and miserable elemental principles, to which you desire to be in bondage all over again? 10 You observe days, months, seasons, and years.

Let's have a look at the scripture you quote above although it may not mean what you think it does. There is no mention of the Sabbath here. In the days of Jesus and the Apostles the OLD TESTAMENT scriptures were the bible. Let's have a look at what Paul is talking about here linking both the OLD and NEW TESTAMENT scriptures..

.......................

GALATIONS 4 [4], But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, [5], To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons. [6], And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. [7], Therefore you are no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ. [8], But then, when you knew not God, you did service unto them which by nature are no gods. [9], But now, after you have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn you again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage? [10], You observe days, and months, and times, and years. [11], I am afraid for you, lest I have bestowed upon you labor in vain.

GALATIONS 4:8 [8] Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.[9] But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? [10] YE OBSERVE DAYS, AND MONTHS, AND TIMES, AND YEARS. [11] I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

Galatians 4 says nothing about God's 4th Commandment which is the seventh day Sabbath. Its speaking of those who observe times.

DEUTERONOMY 18:9 [9] When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations.[10] There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, OR AN OBSERVER OF TIMES, or an enchanter, or a witch,[11] Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.

The same thing goes on to this very day. Its speaking of the occult. Those who observe certain days by use of horoscopes?

2 CHRONICLES 33:3 [3] For he built again the high places which Hezekiah his father had broken down, and he reared up altars for Baalim, and made groves, and worshipped all the host of heaven, and served them.[4] Also he built altars in the house of the LORD, whereof the LORD had said, In Jerusalem shall my name be for ever.[5] And he built altars for all the host of heaven in the two courts of the house of the LORD.[6] And he caused his children to pass through the fire in the valley of the son of Hinnom: ALSO HE OBSERVED TIMES, and used enchantments, and used witchcraft, and dealt with a familiar spirit, and with wizards: he wrought much evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger

Enchantments, witchcraft, familiar spirits, and wizards. Its speaking of the occult. Not following sabbath days.

LEVITICUS 19:26 [26] Ye shall not eat any thing with the blood: neither shall ye use enchantment, NOR OBSERVE TIMES.[27] Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard.[28] Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD.[29] Do not prostitute thy daughter, to cause her to be a harlot; lest the land fall to whoredom, and the land become full of wickedness.[30] YE SHALL KEEP MY SABBATHS, and reverence my sanctuary: I am the LORD.

I guess this scripture says it all. You shall not observe times BUT you will keep my sabbaths.

Hope this is helpful. :wave:
 
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Dave L

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We are not obligated to keep the Sabbath under the New Covenant. Jesus fulfilled the royal Law on the cross for those who believe in him. So we use the Ten Commandments for commentary and instruction only.

In the New Covenant, we have the Two Great Commandments, Love for God and People written in our hearts and this is the Law we abide by. If you live according to this law, you will automatically be in sync with the Ten Commandments. You won't want to kill, or steal, or do anything the Ten Commandments told people not to do.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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We are not obligated to keep the Sabbath under the New Covenant. Jesus fulfilled the royal Law on the cross for those who believe in him. So we use the Ten Commandments for commentary and instruction only.

In the New Covenant, we have the Two Great Commandments, Love for God and People written in our hearts and this is the Law we abide by. If you live according to this law, you will automatically be in sync with the Ten Commandments. You won't want to kill, or steal, or do anything the Ten Commandments told people not to do.

Yet here you are not a single scripture that says God's 4th Commandment is abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day. Jesus did not fulfill the Royal law so that we are free to break it. Those who break it do not have love and need a new heart because it is LOVE that fulfills God's LAW in those who believe and FOLLOW God's WORD. If you have no law you have no love, because on these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets (Matthew 22:36-40).

HOW DO WE KNOW IF WE KNOW GOD?

1 JOHN 2:3-4 [3], And by this we know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. [4], He that says, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

SIN is the transgression or breakin gof God's Commandments (Romans 7:7; James 2:8-12; 1 John 3:4) Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

This is why Jesus says to those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD; IF you LOVE me KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS (John 14:15).

.......................

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).
 
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Dave L

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Yet here you are not a single scripture that says God's 4th Commandment is abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day. Jesus did not fulfill the Royal law so that we are free to break it. Those who break it do not have love and need a new heart because it is LOVE that fulfills God's LAW in those who believe and FOLLOW God's WORD. If you have no law you have no love, because on these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets (Matthew 22:36-40).

HOW DO WE KNOW IF WE KNOW GOD?

1 JOHN 2:3-4 [3], And by this we know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. [4], He that says, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

SIN is the transgression or breakin gof God's Commandments (Romans 7:7; James 2:8-12; 1 John 3:4) Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

This is why Jesus says to those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD; IF you LOVE me KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS (John 14:15).

.......................

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).
“Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, That I will make a new covenant With the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers In the day that I took them by the hand To bring them out of the land of Egypt; Which my covenant they brake, Although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, And write it in their hearts; And will be their God, And they shall be my people.” (Jeremiah 31:31–33)

This replaced ALL the Ten Commandments. They were the Old Covenant.

“And He (God) wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.” Exodus 34:28


“And He declared unto you His covenant, which He commanded you to perform, even the Ten Commandments.” Deuteronomy 4:13:


“When I was gone up into the mount to receive the tables of stone, even the tables of the covenant.” Deuteronomy 9:9:


“So I turned and came down from the mount . . . and the two tables of the covenant were in my two hands.” Deuteronomy 9:15:

“There was nothing in the ark save the two tables of stone which Moses put there at Horeb, when Jehovah made a covenant with the children of Israel, when they came out of the land of Egypt,” I Kings 8:9

“And there have I set a place for the ark, wherein is the covenant of Jehovah, which he made with our fathers, when he brought them out of the land of Egypt.” I Kings 8:21

The second of these two texts is repeated in II Chronicles 6:11.

Consider “The ark of the covenant” that held the Ten Commandments (Numbers 10:33; Jeremiah 3:16, and other places)
 
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discipler7

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Saint Steven said:
So, it's okay for me to break the Sabbath because I don't know any better?
In the end it comes down to what you know and what you do not know and if you have rejected God's WORD which is the standard in the judgment.
The judgment of God depends on whether you are referring to Jewish Christians or Gentile Christians.

At ACTS.15:24-29, God has exempted Gentile Christians from any of His laws or Moses Law which proves to be a burden. This would include being exempted from keeping the Biblical or Jewish Sabbath day strictly from sunset Friday to sunset Saturday.
....... For most Christians today who live in Western countries or former Western colonies, their Sabbath day has been changed to Sunday, since the days of the Holy Roman Empire of the 4th century AD. For Christian shift-workers, eg police officers, doctors, nurses, firemen, etc, their Sabbath day could be any day of the week. This is the liberty gifted by the Holy Spirit of God.

Not even all the religious Jews of today could keep the Jewish Sabbath, unless they live in Israel.

Any Church that makes it a requirement for Gentile Christians to keep the Biblical or Jewish Sabbath is very much in error.
 
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discipler7

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Saint Steven said:
So, it's okay for me to break the Sabbath because I don't know any better?
In the end it comes down to what you know and what you do not know and if you have rejected God's WORD which is the standard in the judgment.
The judgment of God depends on whether you are referring to Jewish Christians or Gentile Christians.

At ACTS.15:24-29, God has exempted Gentile Christians from any of His laws or Moses Law which proves to be a burden. This would include being exempted from keeping the Biblical or Jewish Sabbath day strictly from sunset Friday to sunset Saturday.
....... For most Christians today who live in Western countries or former Western colonies, their Sabbath day has been changed to Sunday, since the days of the Holy Roman Empire of the 4th century AD. For Christian shift-workers, eg police officers, doctors, nurses, firemen, etc, their Sabbath day could be any day of the week. This is the liberty gifted by the Holy Spirit of God.

Not even all the religious Jews of today could keep the Jewish Sabbath, unless they live in Israel.

Any Church that makes it a requirement for Gentile Christians to keep the Biblical or Jewish Sabbath is very much in error. Similarly, for the requirement to be circumcised, eat only kosher foods, be water-baptized, to tithe 10%, be speaking in tongues, etc.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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“Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, That I will make a new covenant With the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers In the day that I took them by the hand To bring them out of the land of Egypt; Which my covenant they brake, Although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, And write it in their hearts; And will be their God, And they shall be my people.” (Jeremiah 31:31–33)

This replaced ALL the Ten Commandments. They were the Old Covenant.

“And He (God) wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.” Exodus 34:28


“And He declared unto you His covenant, which He commanded you to perform, even the Ten Commandments.” Deuteronomy 4:13:


“When I was gone up into the mount to receive the tables of stone, even the tables of the covenant.” Deuteronomy 9:9:


“So I turned and came down from the mount . . . and the two tables of the covenant were in my two hands.” Deuteronomy 9:15:

“There was nothing in the ark save the two tables of stone which Moses put there at Horeb, when Jehovah made a covenant with the children of Israel, when they came out of the land of Egypt,” I Kings 8:9

“And there have I set a place for the ark, wherein is the covenant of Jehovah, which he made with our fathers, when he brought them out of the land of Egypt.” I Kings 8:21

The second of these two texts is repeated in II Chronicles 6:11.

Consider “The ark of the covenant” that held the Ten Commandments (Numbers 10:33; Jeremiah 3:16, and other places)

Hi Dave

What I think is sad is that you do not wish to discuss the scripture posted that disagree with your teaching except to cut and paste the same thing everytime that has already been addressed with scripture in the past. How can one know what the NEW COVENANT is if they do not know what the OLD COVENANT was?

.............

IS THE OLD COVENANT ONLY THE 10 COMMANDMENTS?

This is where many make their mistake because they do not read ALL of the OLD TESTAMENT scriptures. Indeed God's 10 Commandments were a part of what made up the OLD COVENANT but they were only a part of it not all of it.

The OLD COVENANT was made up of both God's 10 Commandments and the the prophetic Shadow laws for remission of sin from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT that pointed to Christ and God's plan of salvation. Let's look at the scriptures in detail...

The OLD COVENANT was made up of many sets of LAWS. These included God's LAW (10 Commandments) spoken and written by GOD himself to his people on two tables of stone and the MOSAIC BOOK OF THE COVENANT written and spoken to God's people by MOSES containing the CIVIL, CEREMONIAL, ECCLESIASTICAL laws for forgiveness of sin and sin offerings for the SANCTUARY and PRIESTHOOD [Levitical].

EXODUS 24 [7] And he took the BOOK OF THE COVENANT, and read in the hearing of the people: and they said, All that the LORD has said will we do, and be obedient.

The Old Covenant included; The 10 Commandments and the MOSAIC BOOK OF THE COVENANT...

1. GOD'S LAW (One scripture only as we already agree on this)

EXODUS 34 [28] And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the COVENANT, the TEN COMMANDMENTS.

and ...

2. THE MOSAIC BOOK OF THE COVENANT (Also part of the old covenant)

EXODUS 24 [7] And he took the BOOK OF THE COVENANT, and read in the hearing of the people: and they said, All that the LORD has said will we do, and be obedient.

DEUTERONOMY 31:26 [26] TAKE THIS BOOK OF THE LAW, and put it in the side of the ark of the COVENANT of the LORD your God, that it may be there FOR A WITNESS AGAINST THEE.

DEUTERONOMY 29:21 [21] And the LORD shall separate him unto evil out of all the tribes of Israel, ACCORDING TO ALL THE CURSES OF THE COVENANT that are WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW.

EXODUS 24 [7], And he took the BOOK OF THE COVENANT, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the LORD has said will we do, and be obedient.

DEUTERONOMY 29 [21], And the LORD shall separate him to evil out of all the tribes of Israel, according to all the curses of the COVENANT THAT ARE WRITTEN IN THIS BOOK OF THE LAW.

DEUTERONOMY 31 [26], Take this BOOK OF THE LAW, and put it in the SIDE OF THE ARK OF THE COVENANT of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against you.

2 KINGS 23 [2], And the king went up into the house of the LORD, and all the men of Judah and all the inhabitants of Jerusalem with him, and the priests, and the prophets, and all the people, both small and great: and HE READ IN THEIR EARS ALL THE WORDS OF THE BOOK OF THE COVENANT which was found in the house of the LORD.

2 KINGS 23 [3], And the king stood by a pillar, and made a covenant before the LORD, to walk after the LORD, and to keep his commandments and his testimonies and his statutes with all their heart and all their soul, TO PERFORM THE WORDS OF THIS COVENANT THAT WERE WRITTEN IN THIS BOOK. And all the people stood to the COVENANT.

2 KINGS 23 [21], And the king commanded all the people, saying, KEEP THE PASSOVER OF THE LORD your God, AS IT IS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THIS COVENANT.

2 CHRONICLES 34 [30], And the king went up into the house of the LORD, and all the men of Judah, and the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and the priests, and the Levites, and all the people, great and small: and HE READ IN THEIR EARS ALL THE WORDS OF THE BOOK OF THE COVENANT that was found in the house of the LORD.

2 CHRONICLES 34 [31] And the king stood in his place, and made a covenant before the LORD, to walk after the LORD, and to keep his commandments, and his testimonies, and his statutes, with all his heart, and with all his soul, TO PERFORM THE WORDS OF THE COVENANT WHICH ARE WRITTEN IN THE BOOK.

...............

* Yep, the OLD COVENANT is not just the 10 Commandments it includes the prophetic SHADOW LAWS FROM THE MOSAIC BOOK OF THE COVENANT*

...............

HEBREWS 9:1 [1] Then verily THE FIRST COVENANT HAD ALSO ORDINANCES of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. [9] Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;[10] WHICH STOOD ONLY IN MEATS AND DRINKS, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.[12] NEITHER BY THE BLOOD OF GOATS AND CALVES, BUT BY HIS OWN BLOOD he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

EPHESIANS 2 [15] HAVING ABOLISHED in his flesh the enmity, even the LAW OF COMMANDMENTS CONTAINED IN ORDINANCES; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;[16] And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby

EZEKIEL 46 [14] And thou shalt prepare a meat offering for it every morning, the sixth part of an ephah, and the third part of an hin of oil, to temper with the fine flour; a MEAT OFFERING continually by a perpetual ORDINANCE unto the LORD.

NUMBERS 19 [2] This is the ORDINANCE OF THE LAW which the Lord hath commanded, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, that they bring thee a red heifer without spot, wherein is no blemish, and upon which never came yoke:

HEBREWS 10 [1] For THE LAW HAVING A SHADOW of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with THOSE SACRIFICES WHICH THEY OFFERED YEAR BY YEAR continually make the comers thereunto perfect.[2] For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. [3] But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.[4] For IT IS NOT POSSIBLE THAT THE BLOOD OF BULLS AND OF GOATS SHOULD TAKE AWAY SINS.

What laws are written on the heart in the NEW COVENANT promise? It is not the MOSAIC laws for remission of sin...

JEREMIAH 31:31-34 [31], Behold, the days come, says the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:[32], NOT ACCORDING TO THE COVENANT THAT I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt ; MY COVENANT WHICH THEY BROKE, although I was a husband unto them, says the LORD:[33], But THIS SHALL BE MY COVENANT THAT I SHALL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISREAL; After those days, says the LORD, I WILL PUT MY LAWS IN THEIR INWARD PARTS, AND I WILL WRITE IT IN THEIR HEARTS AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE; [34], And they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, says the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

2 CORINTHIANS 3 [2], You are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men: [3], Since you are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, WRITTEN NOT WITH INK, BUT WITH THE SPIRIT OF THE LIVING GOD; NOT IN TABLES OF STONE, BUT IN THE FLESHLY TABLES OF THE HEART. (see all of 2 COR 3)

The NEW COVENANT promise of LOVE is God's LAW (10 Commandments) written on the heart to LOVE through faith (HEBREWS 8:10-12; ROMANS 13:8-10)

……………………………

CONCLUSION; Jesus did not come to change or destroy GOD'S LAW (10 Commandments). It is through GOD's LAW that we have a KNOLWEDGE of what SIN is. The sabbath is still to be kept. He came to fulfil what was written of Him in the books of the law and to END the Mosaic law for remission of SIN and the penalty of SIN in those who BELIEVE

yep it is the SHADOW laws that are fulfilled in Christ. The OLD COVENANT is made up of God's 10 Commandments and the Shadow laws in ORDINANCES from the MOSAIC BOOK OF THE COVENANT.

You have your shadow laws mixed up with God's eternal LAW that give us a KNOWLEDGE of what sin is if broken. * ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; JAMES 2:11; 1 JOHN 3:4

Happy to share the purpose of God's LAW (10 Commandments) and the Shadow laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT in another post if your interested?

DETAILED SCRIPTURE SUPPORT LINKING OLD AND NEW HERE Click me.

Hope this helps :wave:
 
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Saint Steven

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All of God's righteous laws are eternal (Psalms 119:160) and eternal instructions for how to act in accordance with God's eternal righteousness can't be set aside without first setting aside God's eternal righteousness. If the law was set aside, then the fact that Jesus was sinless would have no significance.

In Romans 9:30-10:4, the Israelites had a zeal for God, but it was not based on knowledge because they did not understand that the righteousness of God only comes through faith in Christ. So they failed to obtain righteousness because they pursued the Law as through righteousness were by works in an effort to establish their own instead of by pursuing the Law as through righteousness were by faith, for Christ is the goal of the Law for righteousness for everyone who has faith. In Romans 10:5-10, Paul quoted Deuteronomy 30:11-14, in regard to this faith saying that God's Law is not too difficult for us, but that His Word is near us, in our heart and in our mouth so that we can obey it, and this is what it means to confess and to submit to Jesus as Lord. So there is absolutely nothing in this passage that suggests that Christ set aside his righteous standard, but just the opposite.
Were the animal sacrifices not God's righteous laws? Are they now set aside? (yes)
Is not the law until heaven and earth pass away? Will heaven and earth pass away? (using your own argument) What's eternal about that?
 
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Dave L

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Hi Dave

What I think is sad is that you do not wish to discuss the scripture posted that disagree with your teaching except to cut and paste the same thing everytime that has already been addressed with scripture in the past. How can one know what the NEW COVENANT is if they do not know what the OLD COVENANT was?

.............

IS THE OLD COVENANT ONLY THE 10 COMMANDMENTS?

This is where many make their mistake because they do not read ALL of the OLD TESTAMENT scriptures. Indeed God's 10 Commandments were a part of what made up the OLD COVENANT but they were only a part of it not all of it.

The OLD COVENANT was made up of both God's 10 Commandments and the the prophetic Shadow laws for remission of sin from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT that pointed to Christ and God's plan of salvation. Let's look at the scriptures in detail...

The OLD COVENANT was made up of many sets of LAWS. These included God's LAW (10 Commandments) spoken and written by GOD himself to his people on two tables of stone and the MOSAIC BOOK OF THE COVENANT written and spoken to God's people by MOSES containing the CIVIL, CEREMONIAL, ECCLESIASTICAL laws for forgiveness of sin and sin offerings for the SANCTUARY and PRIESTHOOD [Levitical].

EXODUS 24 [7] And he took the BOOK OF THE COVENANT, and read in the hearing of the people: and they said, All that the LORD has said will we do, and be obedient.

The Old Covenant included; The 10 Commandments and the MOSAIC BOOK OF THE COVENANT...

1. GOD'S LAW (One scripture only as we already agree on this)

EXODUS 34 [28] And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the COVENANT, the TEN COMMANDMENTS.

and ...

2. THE MOSAIC BOOK OF THE COVENANT (Also part of the old covenant)

EXODUS 24 [7] And he took the BOOK OF THE COVENANT, and read in the hearing of the people: and they said, All that the LORD has said will we do, and be obedient.

DEUTERONOMY 31:26 [26] TAKE THIS BOOK OF THE LAW, and put it in the side of the ark of the COVENANT of the LORD your God, that it may be there FOR A WITNESS AGAINST THEE.

DEUTERONOMY 29:21 [21] And the LORD shall separate him unto evil out of all the tribes of Israel, ACCORDING TO ALL THE CURSES OF THE COVENANT that are WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW.

EXODUS 24 [7], And he took the BOOK OF THE COVENANT, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the LORD has said will we do, and be obedient.

DEUTERONOMY 29 [21], And the LORD shall separate him to evil out of all the tribes of Israel, according to all the curses of the COVENANT THAT ARE WRITTEN IN THIS BOOK OF THE LAW.

DEUTERONOMY 31 [26], Take this BOOK OF THE LAW, and put it in the SIDE OF THE ARK OF THE COVENANT of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against you.

2 KINGS 23 [2], And the king went up into the house of the LORD, and all the men of Judah and all the inhabitants of Jerusalem with him, and the priests, and the prophets, and all the people, both small and great: and HE READ IN THEIR EARS ALL THE WORDS OF THE BOOK OF THE COVENANT which was found in the house of the LORD.

2 KINGS 23 [3], And the king stood by a pillar, and made a covenant before the LORD, to walk after the LORD, and to keep his commandments and his testimonies and his statutes with all their heart and all their soul, TO PERFORM THE WORDS OF THIS COVENANT THAT WERE WRITTEN IN THIS BOOK. And all the people stood to the COVENANT.

2 KINGS 23 [21], And the king commanded all the people, saying, KEEP THE PASSOVER OF THE LORD your God, AS IT IS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THIS COVENANT.

2 CHRONICLES 34 [30], And the king went up into the house of the LORD, and all the men of Judah, and the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and the priests, and the Levites, and all the people, great and small: and HE READ IN THEIR EARS ALL THE WORDS OF THE BOOK OF THE COVENANT that was found in the house of the LORD.

2 CHRONICLES 34 [31] And the king stood in his place, and made a covenant before the LORD, to walk after the LORD, and to keep his commandments, and his testimonies, and his statutes, with all his heart, and with all his soul, TO PERFORM THE WORDS OF THE COVENANT WHICH ARE WRITTEN IN THE BOOK.

...............

* Yep, the OLD COVENANT is not just the 10 Commandments it includes the prophetic SHADOW LAWS FROM THE MOSAIC BOOK OF THE COVENANT*

...............

HEBREWS 9:1 [1] Then verily THE FIRST COVENANT HAD ALSO ORDINANCES of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. [9] Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;[10] WHICH STOOD ONLY IN MEATS AND DRINKS, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.[12] NEITHER BY THE BLOOD OF GOATS AND CALVES, BUT BY HIS OWN BLOOD he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

EPHESIANS 2 [15] HAVING ABOLISHED in his flesh the enmity, even the LAW OF COMMANDMENTS CONTAINED IN ORDINANCES; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;[16] And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby

EZEKIEL 46 [14] And thou shalt prepare a meat offering for it every morning, the sixth part of an ephah, and the third part of an hin of oil, to temper with the fine flour; a MEAT OFFERING continually by a perpetual ORDINANCE unto the LORD.

NUMBERS 19 [2] This is the ORDINANCE OF THE LAW which the Lord hath commanded, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, that they bring thee a red heifer without spot, wherein is no blemish, and upon which never came yoke:

HEBREWS 10 [1] For THE LAW HAVING A SHADOW of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with THOSE SACRIFICES WHICH THEY OFFERED YEAR BY YEAR continually make the comers thereunto perfect.[2] For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. [3] But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.[4] For IT IS NOT POSSIBLE THAT THE BLOOD OF BULLS AND OF GOATS SHOULD TAKE AWAY SINS.

What laws are written on the heart in the NEW COVENANT promise? It is not the MOSAIC laws for remission of sin...

JEREMIAH 31:31-34 [31], Behold, the days come, says the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:[32], NOT ACCORDING TO THE COVENANT THAT I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt ; MY COVENANT WHICH THEY BROKE, although I was a husband unto them, says the LORD:[33], But THIS SHALL BE MY COVENANT THAT I SHALL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISREAL; After those days, says the LORD, I WILL PUT MY LAWS IN THEIR INWARD PARTS, AND I WILL WRITE IT IN THEIR HEARTS AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE; [34], And they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, says the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

2 CORINTHIANS 3 [2], You are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men: [3], Since you are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, WRITTEN NOT WITH INK, BUT WITH THE SPIRIT OF THE LIVING GOD; NOT IN TABLES OF STONE, BUT IN THE FLESHLY TABLES OF THE HEART. (see all of 2 COR 3)

The NEW COVENANT promise of LOVE is God's LAW (10 Commandments) written on the heart to LOVE through faith (HEBREWS 8:10-12; ROMANS 13:8-10)

……………………………

CONCLUSION; Jesus did not come to change or destroy GOD'S LAW (10 Commandments). It is through GOD's LAW that we have a KNOLWEDGE of what SIN is. The sabbath is still to be kept. He came to fulfil what was written of Him in the books of the law and to END the Mosaic law for remission of SIN and the penalty of SIN in those who BELIEVE

yep it is the SHADOW laws that are fulfilled in Christ. The OLD COVENANT is made up of God's 10 Commandments and the Shadow laws in ORDINANCES from the MOSAIC BOOK OF THE COVENANT.

You have your shadow laws mixed up with God's eternal LAW that give us a KNOWLEDGE of what sin is if broken. * ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; JAMES 2:11; 1 JOHN 3:4

Happy to share the purpose of God's LAW (10 Commandments) and the Shadow laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT in another post if your interested?

DETAILED SCRIPTURE SUPPORT LINKING OLD AND NEW HERE Click me.

Hope this helps :wave:
The Ten Commandments were the heart of the Old Covenant. God replaced them with the New Covenant. You are enslaving people if you try to make them return to the Old Covenant (Ten Commandments) in violation of everything Paul says in Galatians.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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The judgment of God depends on whether you are referring to Jewish Christians or Gentile Christians.

At ACTS.15:24-29, God has exempted Gentile Christians from any of His laws or Moses Law which proves to be a burden. This would include being exempted from keeping the Biblical or Jewish Sabbath day strictly from sunset Friday to sunset Saturday.
....... For most Christians today who live in Western countries or former Western colonies, their Sabbath day has been changed to Sunday, since the days of the Holy Roman Empire of the 4th century AD. For Christian shift-workers, eg police officers, doctors, nurses, firemen, etc, their Sabbath day could be any day of the week. This is the liberty gifted by the Holy Spirit of God.

Not even all the religious Jews of today could keep the Jewish Sabbath, unless they live in Israel.

Any Church that makes it a requirement for Gentile Christians to keep the Biblical or Jewish Sabbath is very much in error.

Hi Discipler nice to see you and have a chat.

Acts 15 does not teach that God has one set of laws for Jewish Christians and another set of laws for gentile Christians. Gentiles are now grafted in to God's ISRAEL (Romans 11:16:27)

ROMANS 9:6-8 [6], FOR THEY ARE NOT ALL ISRAEL WHICH ARE OF ISRAEL,: [7], NEITHER, BECAUSE THEY ARE THE SEED OF ABRAHAM, ARE THEY ALL CHILDREN: but in Isaac shall thy seed be called <Christ> [8], That is, THEY WHICH ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE FLESH, THESE ARE NOT THE CHILDREN OF GOD: BUT THE CHILDREN OF THE PROMISE <those who believe> ARE COUNTED FOR THE SEED.

God's ISRAEL are all those in CHRIST that have been given a NEW HEART according to the NEW COVENANT promise...

ROMANS 2:28-29 [28], FOR HE IS NOT A JEW WHICH IS ONE OUTWARDLY; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OUTWARDS IN THE FLESH: [29], BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; and CIRCUMCISION IS OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT, AND NOT IN THE LETTER; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

In the NEW COVENANT all those in Christ are are God's ISRAEL...

COLOSSIANS 3:11 [11], WHERE THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: BUT CHRIST IS ALL IN ALL.

ROMANS 10:11-13 [11], For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. [12], FOR THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN JEW OR GREEK: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. [13], FOR WHOSOEVER SHALL CALL UPON THE NAME OF THE LORD SHALL BE SAVED.

.............

ACTS 15 is not telling gentile believers that they are now free to break God's 10 Commandments.

You need to go back to the CONTEXT of the chapter to understand what ACTS 15 is talking about here to define the topic of conversation that the chapter is trying to address. Let's determine the topic of conversation and the question that the chapter is trying to decide on.

ACTS 15:1:21
[1], And certain men who came down from Judea taught the brethren, and said, Except you be circumcised after the manner of Moses, you cannot be saved.

...........

NOTE: ACTS 15:1 is the question that needs to be answered and the topic of conversation and CONTEXT of the chapter of ACTS 15. Here we have Jewish believers coming to Paul and Barnabas saying if the new GENTILES believers are not circumcised and made proselytes then they cannot be saved. This is the chapter context and issue of contention.

...........

[2], When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and dispute with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.

...........

NOTE: ACTS 15:2 there was much arguing over the claims of the Jewish believers who are claiming that unless the gentiles are circumcised they cannot be saved. They then determined that Paul and Barnabas must go to Jerusalem to the Apostles and elders ABOUT THIS QUESTION. Which question? Weather your salvation depends on being CIRCUMCISED.

They then travelled to Jerusalem about this question to determine if new gentile believers needed to be CIRCUMCISED in order to be saved. Once they got to Jerusalem, the question was then asked and the discussion continued with the Pharasees stating their cas first..

...........

[5], But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees who believed, saying, It is needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

...........

NOTE: KEEP in mind here the question was never over if gentile believers should obey God's 10 Commandments but to keep the Shadow laws of Moses, in this case CIRCUMCISION as a means of salvation.

...........

[6], And the apostles and elders came together to consider this matter.
[7], And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, you know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
[8], And God, who knows the hearts, bore them witness, giving them the Holy Spirit, even as he did unto us;

...........

NOTE: After much discussion between the Apostles, Peter then rose up showing that God gave the gentile believers the Holy Spirit being uncircumcised.

...........

[9], And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
[10], Now therefore why test God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
[11], But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

...........

NOTE: They came to the conclusion then that salvation is not by being circumcised but be what circumcision pointed to. A new heart by faith. This is made plain latter in other scripture written by PAUL here...

ROMANS 2 [25] For circumcision verily profits, if you keep the law: but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision is made uncircumcision. [26], Therefore if the uncircumcision keeps the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? [27], And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfils the law, judge you, who by the letter and circumcision do transgress the law? [28], FOR HE IS NOT A JEW, WHO IS ONE; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OF THE OUTWARD FLESH: [29], BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; AND CIRCUMCISION IS THAT OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT AND NOT IN THE LETTER; WHOSE PRAISE IS NOT OF MEN BUT OF GOD.

If ACTS 15 was talking about the 10 Commandments then Pauls writings in to the CORITHIANS do not make any sense.

1 CORITHIANS 7 [19] CIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, AND UNCIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, BUT THE KEEPING OF THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD.

The scripture above is a contradiction of how some interpret the outcome of ACTS 15

You do not believe brother Der Alter, that we are now free to break any of God's 10 Commandments now do you?

...........

[12], Then all the multitude kept silence, and listened to Barnabas and Paul declaring what miracles and wonders God had done among the Gentiles by them.
[13], And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:
[14], Simeon has declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
[15], And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
[16], After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
[17], That the rest of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, says the Lord, who does all these things.
[18], Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
[19], Therefore my judgment is, that we trouble not them, who from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
[20], But that we write unto them, that they abstain from defilements of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
[21], For Moses of old time has in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

.................

CONCLUSION
So the conclusion of the matter. v19-20 We are not to trouble the new gentile believers with CIRCUMCISION as a means of salvation. They are new converts they will learn more about God as Moses is preached when? EVERY SABBATH. WE just tell the new believers because they will be learning every Sabbath to abstain from defilements of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

Hope this helps. :wave:
 
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LoveGodsWord

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The Ten Commandments were the heart of the Old Covenant. God replaced them with the New Covenant. You are enslaving people if you try to make them return to the Old Covenant (Ten Commandments) in violation of everything Paul says in Galatians.

Not at all Dave as shown in the previous post and scripture proofs you ignored and did not address. You are mixing up your shadow laws with God's eternal law. see post # 50 linked.
 
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Dave L

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Hi Discipler nice to see you and have a chat.

Acts 15 does not teach that God has one set of laws for Jewish Christians and another set of laws for gentile Christians. Gentiles are now grafted in to God's ISRAEL (Romans 11:16:27)

ROMANS 9:6-8 [6], FOR THEY ARE NOT ALL ISRAEL WHICH ARE OF ISRAEL,: [7], NEITHER, BECAUSE THEY ARE THE SEED OF ABRAHAM, ARE THEY ALL CHILDREN: but in Isaac shall thy seed be called <Christ> [8], That is, THEY WHICH ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE FLESH, THESE ARE NOT THE CHILDREN OF GOD: BUT THE CHILDREN OF THE PROMISE <those who believe> ARE COUNTED FOR THE SEED.

God's ISRAEL are all those in CHRIST that have been given a NEW HEART according to the NEW COVENANT promise...

ROMANS 2:28-29 [28], FOR HE IS NOT A JEW WHICH IS ONE OUTWARDLY; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OUTWARDS IN THE FLESH: [29], BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; and CIRCUMCISION IS OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT, AND NOT IN THE LETTER; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

In the NEW COVENANT all those in Christ are are God's ISRAEL...

COLOSSIANS 3:11 [11], WHERE THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: BUT CHRIST IS ALL IN ALL.

ROMANS 10:11-13 [11], For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. [12], FOR THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN JEW OR GREEK: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. [13], FOR WHOSOEVER SHALL CALL UPON THE NAME OF THE LORD SHALL BE SAVED.

.............

ACTS 15 is not telling gentile believers that they are now free to break God's 10 Commandments.

You need to go back to the CONTEXT of the chapter to understand what ACTS 15 is talking about here to define the topic of conversation that the chapter is trying to address. Let's determine the topic of conversation and the question that the chapter is trying to decide on.

ACTS 15:1:21
[1], And certain men who came down from Judea taught the brethren, and said, Except you be circumcised after the manner of Moses, you cannot be saved.

...........

NOTE: ACTS 15:1 is the question that needs to be answered and the topic of conversation and CONTEXT of the chapter of ACTS 15. Here we have Jewish believers coming to Paul and Barnabas saying if the new GENTILES believers are not circumcised and made proselytes then they cannot be saved. This is the chapter context and issue of contention.

...........

[2], When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and dispute with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.

...........

NOTE: ACTS 15:2 there was much arguing over the claims of the Jewish believers who are claiming that unless the gentiles are circumcised they cannot be saved. They then determined that Paul and Barnabas must go to Jerusalem to the Apostles and elders ABOUT THIS QUESTION. Which question? Weather your salvation depends on being CIRCUMCISED.

They then travelled to Jerusalem about this question to determine if new gentile believers needed to be CIRCUMCISED in order to be saved. Once they got to Jerusalem, the question was then asked and the discussion continued with the Pharasees stating their cas first..

...........

[5], But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees who believed, saying, It is needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

...........

NOTE: KEEP in mind here the question was never over if gentile believers should obey God's 10 Commandments but to keep the Shadow laws of Moses, in this case CIRCUMCISION as a means of salvation.

...........

[6], And the apostles and elders came together to consider this matter.
[7], And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, you know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
[8], And God, who knows the hearts, bore them witness, giving them the Holy Spirit, even as he did unto us;

...........

NOTE: After much discussion between the Apostles, Peter then rose up showing that God gave the gentile believers the Holy Spirit being uncircumcised.

...........

[9], And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
[10], Now therefore why test God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
[11], But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

...........

NOTE: They came to the conclusion then that salvation is not by being circumcised but be what circumcision pointed to. A new heart by faith. This is made plain latter in other scripture written by PAUL here...

ROMANS 2 [25] For circumcision verily profits, if you keep the law: but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision is made uncircumcision. [26], Therefore if the uncircumcision keeps the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? [27], And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfils the law, judge you, who by the letter and circumcision do transgress the law? [28], FOR HE IS NOT A JEW, WHO IS ONE; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OF THE OUTWARD FLESH: [29], BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; AND CIRCUMCISION IS THAT OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT AND NOT IN THE LETTER; WHOSE PRAISE IS NOT OF MEN BUT OF GOD.

If ACTS 15 was talking about the 10 Commandments then Pauls writings in to the CORITHIANS do not make any sense.

1 CORITHIANS 7 [19] CIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, AND UNCIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, BUT THE KEEPING OF THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD.

The scripture above is a contradiction of how some interpret the outcome of ACTS 15

You do not believe brother Der Alter, that we are now free to break any of God's 10 Commandments now do you?

...........

[12], Then all the multitude kept silence, and listened to Barnabas and Paul declaring what miracles and wonders God had done among the Gentiles by them.
[13], And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:
[14], Simeon has declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
[15], And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
[16], After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
[17], That the rest of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, says the Lord, who does all these things.
[18], Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
[19], Therefore my judgment is, that we trouble not them, who from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
[20], But that we write unto them, that they abstain from defilements of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
[21], For Moses of old time has in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

.................

CONCLUSION
So the conclusion of the matter. v19-20 We are not to trouble the new gentile believers with CIRCUMCISION as a means of salvation. They are new converts they will learn more about God as Moses is preached when? EVERY SABBATH. WE just tell the new believers because they will be learning every Sabbath to abstain from defilements of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

Hope this helps. :wave:
Circumcision was never a means of salvation and the Apostles knew this better than anyone. You are manipulating people into bondage who Christ set free from the law.
 
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Dave L

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Hi Discipler nice to see you and have a chat.

Acts 15 does not teach that God has one set of laws for Jewish Christians and another set of laws for gentile Christians. Gentiles are now grafted in to God's ISRAEL (Romans 11:16:27)

ROMANS 9:6-8 [6], FOR THEY ARE NOT ALL ISRAEL WHICH ARE OF ISRAEL,: [7], NEITHER, BECAUSE THEY ARE THE SEED OF ABRAHAM, ARE THEY ALL CHILDREN: but in Isaac shall thy seed be called <Christ> [8], That is, THEY WHICH ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE FLESH, THESE ARE NOT THE CHILDREN OF GOD: BUT THE CHILDREN OF THE PROMISE <those who believe> ARE COUNTED FOR THE SEED.

God's ISRAEL are all those in CHRIST that have been given a NEW HEART according to the NEW COVENANT promise...

ROMANS 2:28-29 [28], FOR HE IS NOT A JEW WHICH IS ONE OUTWARDLY; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OUTWARDS IN THE FLESH: [29], BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; and CIRCUMCISION IS OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT, AND NOT IN THE LETTER; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

In the NEW COVENANT all those in Christ are are God's ISRAEL...

COLOSSIANS 3:11 [11], WHERE THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: BUT CHRIST IS ALL IN ALL.

ROMANS 10:11-13 [11], For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. [12], FOR THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN JEW OR GREEK: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. [13], FOR WHOSOEVER SHALL CALL UPON THE NAME OF THE LORD SHALL BE SAVED.

.............

ACTS 15 is not telling gentile believers that they are now free to break God's 10 Commandments.

You need to go back to the CONTEXT of the chapter to understand what ACTS 15 is talking about here to define the topic of conversation that the chapter is trying to address. Let's determine the topic of conversation and the question that the chapter is trying to decide on.

ACTS 15:1:21
[1], And certain men who came down from Judea taught the brethren, and said, Except you be circumcised after the manner of Moses, you cannot be saved.

...........

NOTE: ACTS 15:1 is the question that needs to be answered and the topic of conversation and CONTEXT of the chapter of ACTS 15. Here we have Jewish believers coming to Paul and Barnabas saying if the new GENTILES believers are not circumcised and made proselytes then they cannot be saved. This is the chapter context and issue of contention.

...........

[2], When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and dispute with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.

...........

NOTE: ACTS 15:2 there was much arguing over the claims of the Jewish believers who are claiming that unless the gentiles are circumcised they cannot be saved. They then determined that Paul and Barnabas must go to Jerusalem to the Apostles and elders ABOUT THIS QUESTION. Which question? Weather your salvation depends on being CIRCUMCISED.

They then travelled to Jerusalem about this question to determine if new gentile believers needed to be CIRCUMCISED in order to be saved. Once they got to Jerusalem, the question was then asked and the discussion continued with the Pharasees stating their cas first..

...........

[5], But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees who believed, saying, It is needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

...........

NOTE: KEEP in mind here the question was never over if gentile believers should obey God's 10 Commandments but to keep the Shadow laws of Moses, in this case CIRCUMCISION as a means of salvation.

...........

[6], And the apostles and elders came together to consider this matter.
[7], And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, you know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
[8], And God, who knows the hearts, bore them witness, giving them the Holy Spirit, even as he did unto us;

...........

NOTE: After much discussion between the Apostles, Peter then rose up showing that God gave the gentile believers the Holy Spirit being uncircumcised.

...........

[9], And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
[10], Now therefore why test God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
[11], But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

...........

NOTE: They came to the conclusion then that salvation is not by being circumcised but be what circumcision pointed to. A new heart by faith. This is made plain latter in other scripture written by PAUL here...

ROMANS 2 [25] For circumcision verily profits, if you keep the law: but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision is made uncircumcision. [26], Therefore if the uncircumcision keeps the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? [27], And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfils the law, judge you, who by the letter and circumcision do transgress the law? [28], FOR HE IS NOT A JEW, WHO IS ONE; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OF THE OUTWARD FLESH: [29], BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; AND CIRCUMCISION IS THAT OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT AND NOT IN THE LETTER; WHOSE PRAISE IS NOT OF MEN BUT OF GOD.

If ACTS 15 was talking about the 10 Commandments then Pauls writings in to the CORITHIANS do not make any sense.

1 CORITHIANS 7 [19] CIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, AND UNCIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, BUT THE KEEPING OF THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD.

The scripture above is a contradiction of how some interpret the outcome of ACTS 15

You do not believe brother Der Alter, that we are now free to break any of God's 10 Commandments now do you?

...........

[12], Then all the multitude kept silence, and listened to Barnabas and Paul declaring what miracles and wonders God had done among the Gentiles by them.
[13], And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:
[14], Simeon has declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
[15], And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
[16], After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
[17], That the rest of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, says the Lord, who does all these things.
[18], Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
[19], Therefore my judgment is, that we trouble not them, who from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
[20], But that we write unto them, that they abstain from defilements of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
[21], For Moses of old time has in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

.................

CONCLUSION
So the conclusion of the matter. v19-20 We are not to trouble the new gentile believers with CIRCUMCISION as a means of salvation. They are new converts they will learn more about God as Moses is preached when? EVERY SABBATH. WE just tell the new believers because they will be learning every Sabbath to abstain from defilements of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

Hope this helps. :wave:
Circumcision was never a means of salvation and the Apostles knew this better than anyone. You are manipulating people into bondage who Christ set free from the law.
 
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