When do the last days end?

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StephenDiscipleofYHWH

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In ezekiel 38, Gog comes against Israel in the last days:
Ezekiel 38:16 and you will come up against My people Israel like a cloud to cover the land. It shall come about in the last days that I will bring you against My land, so that the nations may know Me when I am sanctified through you before their eyes, O Gog.”

However, in revelation Gog-magog comes against God's city AFTER the millenium
Revelation 20:7-9 then the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 8and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves.

If the last days occurs, as you say, before the millenium, how can Gog attack God's city after the millenium?
All nations(including Gog) march on Jerusalem and destroy it and the people within(except for a residue) Zechariah 14:1-2, Isaiah 13:16. Then some time later the camp of the saints is set up within the Mount of Olives. Then Satan is bound and the righteous dead(only those who were killed for Christ) are resurrected and the rest of the dead live not again until the second. Then after the thousand year period(years are as days, the time is cut short) satan is loosed and he gathers all nations against the camp of the saints(the Lord's holy mountain) to encompass it Revelation 20:7-9. Once this happens the Lord returns in the flesh and destroys everything with fire. At this time all those who were in Christ are caught up with the Lord, the rest of the dead(righteous and wicked) and the living wicked are brought before the Lord for judgment. This is the second Resurrection.
(1) Jerusalem will be taken (Zech 14:1-2, Isaiah 13:16)
(2) The residue of the poeple will not be cut off (Zech 14:2)
(3) Christ spiritually stands Mt.of Olives and drives out the nations who took Jerusalem (Zech 14:3, Ezekiel 11:23)
(4) People of God will flee to the valley of the Mt. (Zech 14:5)
(5) Small stone of (Daniel 2:44-45)
(6) That was cut out without human hands (Ezekiel 9:5-11, Daniel 2:45)
(7) These are those that escape of them (Isaiah 66:18-19)
(8) Who Gather in the chosen of God into the Kingdom of God (Isaiah 66:18-20, Ezekiel 11:16-20)
(9) These are "Lively stones" (1 Peter 2:5, Ephesians 2:19-22)
(10) This is during the great tribulation (Revelation Chapters 15, 16, and 17:1-13, 13:5-18)
(11) The small Stone/Kingdom of (Daniel 2:44)
(12) Becomes a great mountain (Daniel 2:35)
(13) That causes the world government to fall (Daniel 2:35)
(14) These things come to pass before Yahshua comes/destroys the Heavens, earth, and wicked with fire(Matthew 24:29-31; Micha 1:3-4; Isaiah 66:15-17,26:21,2:9; Zephaniah 1:18,2:22,3:8,1:2-3; Haggi 2:6-7; Malichi 4:1; Joel 2:10,31; Hosea 10:8; 1 Thess 1:7-9,2; 2 Peter 3:10; Revelation 6:12-17; Revelation 20:9).
 
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ewq1938

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This doesn't answer the question.


Right, So how can Gog and magog battle after the millennium, which is after the last days, if Ezekiel states Gog will battle in the last days (before millennium)?

Even you don't include Magog in the battle in Ezekiel...obviously the two are different events because two attack in Rev but in Ezekiel only one of them attacks.
 
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claninja

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All nations(including Gog) march on Jerusalem and destroy it and the people within(except for a residue). Then some time later the came of the saints is set up within the Mount of Olives. Then after the thousand year period(years are as days, the time is cut short) satan is loosed and he gathers all nations against the camp of the saints(the Lord's holy mountain) to encompass it. Once this happens the Lord returns in the flesh and destroys everything with fire.
(1) Jerusalem will be taken (Zech 14:1-2, Isaiah 13:16)
(2) The residue of the poeple will not be cut off (Zech 14:2)
(3) Christ spiritually stands Mt.of Olives and drives out the nations who took Jerusalem (Zech 14:3, Ezekiel 11:23)
(4) People of God will flee to the valley of the Mt. (Zech 14:5)
(5) Small stone of (Daniel 2:44-45)
(6) That was cut out without human hands (Ezekiel 9:5-11, Daniel 2:45)
(7) These are those that escape of them (Isaiah 66:18-19)
(8) Who Gather in the chosen of God into the Kingdom of God (Isaiah 66:18-20, Ezekiel 11:16-20)
(9) These are "Lively stones" (1 Peter 2:5, Ephesians 2:19-22)
(10) This is during the great tribulation (Revelation Chapters 15, 16, and 17:1-13, 13:5-18)
(11) The small Stone/Kingdom of (Daniel 2:44)
(12) Becomes a great mountain (Daniel 2:35)
(13) That causes the world government to fall (Daniel 2:35)
(14) These things come to pass before Yahshua comes/destroys the Heavens, earth, and wicked with fire(Matthew 24:29-31; Micha 1:3-4; Isaiah 66:15-17,26:21,2:9; Zephaniah 1:18,2:22,3:8,1:2-3; Haggi 2:6-7; Malichi 4:1; Joel 2:10,31; Hosea 10:8; 1 Thess 1:7-9,2; 2 Peter 3:10; Revelation 6:12-17; Revelation 20:9).
So Gog attacks twice?
 
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DavidPT

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A question or two mainly for non Premils, meaning the ones who agree Ezekiel 39 is meaning in the last days of this age where it leads to the 2nd coming.


Revelation 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fows that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.


Does or does this not involve the physical 2nd coming of Christ? If the answer is yes, note verse 21 indicates---And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh---meaning this was done by Christ during His physical presence.


Ezekiel 39:4 Thou shalt fall upon the mountains of Israel, thou, and all thy bands, and the people that is with thee: I will give thee unto the ravenous birds of every sort, and to the beasts of the field to be devoured.
5 Thou shalt fall upon the open field: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD.


Apparently this seems to be meaning Revelation 19:21. And if that verse involves the physical 2nd coming, then so does this verse. What that clearly means is this then.

Ezekiel 39:9 And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years:
10 So that they shall take no wood out of the field, neither cut down any out of the forests; for they shall burn the weapons with fire: and they shall spoil those that spoiled them, and rob those that robbed them, saith the Lord GOD.
11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will give unto Gog a place there of graves in Israel, the valley of the passengers on the east of the sea: and it shall stop the noses of the passengers: and there shall they bury Gog and all his multitude: and they shall call it The valley of Hamongog.
12 And seven months shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land.
13 Yea, all the people of the land shall bury them; and it shall be to them a renown the day that I shall be glorified, saith the Lord GOD.
14 And they shall sever out men of continual employment, passing through the land to bury with the passengers those that remain upon the face of the earth, to cleanse it: after the end of seven months shall they search.
15 And the passengers that pass through the land, when any seeth a man's bone, then shall he set up a sign by it, till the buriers have buried it in the valley of Hamongog.
16 And also the name of the city shall be Hamonah. Thus shall they cleanse the land.


That places all of the above events meaning after the events recorded in Ezekiel 39:4-5 and Revelation 19:21.

How does your view deal with these 7 years and these 7 months, post the 2nd coming? Does your view have an answer for these things?
 
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claninja

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Maybe a different Gog meant in Revelation 20? But if not, I tend to agree that you might have a valid point here. I posted the following the other day in another thread.



Then I posted the following after that post.

Interesting posts.

I agree to an extant. IF Christ's coming is before the millennium, I agree that Ezekiel 38:23 should not logically be placed after the millenium. However, If Christ's coming is after the millenium, after Gog attacks God's city (at the judgment), then Ezekiel 38 could occur after the millennium


Also, If Christ's coming is before the millennium, Ezekiel 39 could not occur after the millennium. The holy spirit was poured on Israel during Peter's time:

Ezekiel 39:29 I will no longer hide my face from them, for I will pour out my Spirit on the people of Israel, declares the Sovereign Lord.”
 
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claninja

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There still is no "God and Magog" like we see in Rev 20. It's only Gog that God speaks about coming to attack.

Eze 39:1 Therefore, thou son of man, prophesy against Gog, and say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:
Eze 39:2 And I will turn thee back, and leave but the sixth part of thee, and will cause thee to come up from the north parts, and will bring thee upon the mountains of Israel:


This also doesn't happen in Rev 20 as all of God and Magog are destroyed.


Eze 39:9 And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years:
Eze 39:10 So that they shall take no wood out of the field, neither cut down any out of the forests; for they shall burn the weapons with fire: and they shall spoil those that spoiled them, and rob those that robbed them, saith the Lord GOD.
Eze 39:11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will give unto Gog a place there of graves in Israel, the valley of the passengers on the east of the sea: and it shall stop the noses of the passengers: and there shall they bury Gog and all his multitude: and they shall call it The valley of Hamongog.
Eze 39:12 And seven months shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land.


This doesn't happen in Rev 20 either. Everyone is burned up...there is no burying needed and especially not 7 months of it. After God destroys Satan's armies the day of judgment begins...not 7 months later plus there is no day of judgment found in Ezekiel 38 or 39.

Vastly different.
So because revelation doesn't give every detail that ezekiel 38 or 39 does, it's not the same?

I think just the fact that Gog and magog are present in both scripture is pretty relevant.
 
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DavidPT

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Interesting posts.

I agree to an extant. IF Christ's coming is before the millennium, I agree that Ezekiel 38:23 should not logically be placed after the millenium. However, If Christ's coming is after the millenium, after Gog attacks God's city (at the judgment), then Ezekiel 38 could occur after the millennium


Also, If Christ's coming is before the millennium, Ezekiel 39 could not occur after the millennium. The holy spirit was poured on Israel during Peter's time:

Ezekiel 39:29 I will no longer hide my face from them, for I will pour out my Spirit on the people of Israel, declares the Sovereign Lord.”


But in order for Ezekiel 39:29 to even be true, it means after God has already dealt with Gog and his multitude. The latter hasn't happened yet though. The former can then not already be true. The chronology is clear. Ezekiel 39:29 can't be fulfilled until Gog and his multitude have been dealt with first. But if you can show otherwise in Ezekiel 39, I'm at least willing to listen.
 
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ewq1938

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So because revelation doesn't give every detail that ezekiel 38 or 39 does, it's not the same?

I think just the fact that Gog and magog are present in both scripture is pretty relevant.


There is the land of Magog not an army from Magog attacking as there is in Rev. The differences prove they are different events and there are MANY differences.
 
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claninja

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There is the land of Magog not an army from Magog attacking as there is in Rev. The differences prove they are different events and there are MANY differences.

So a literal piece of land is fighting in Ezekiel 38 and 39, or would it be army from that land?
 
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claninja

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All nations(including Gog) march on Jerusalem and destroy it and the people within(except for a residue). Then some time later the camp of the saints is set up within the Mount of Olives. Then Satan is bound and the righteous dead(only those who were killed for Christ) are resurrected and the rest of the dead live not again until the second. Then after the thousand year period(years are as days, the time is cut short) satan is loosed and he gathers all nations against the camp of the saints(the Lord's holy mountain) to encompass it. Once this happens the Lord returns in the flesh and destroys everything with fire. At this time all those who were in Christ are caught up with the Lord, the rest of the dead(righteous and wicked) and the living wicked are brought before the Lord for judgment. This is the second Resurrection.
(1) Jerusalem will be taken (Zech 14:1-2, Isaiah 13:16)
(2) The residue of the poeple will not be cut off (Zech 14:2)
(3) Christ spiritually stands Mt.of Olives and drives out the nations who took Jerusalem (Zech 14:3, Ezekiel 11:23)
(4) People of God will flee to the valley of the Mt. (Zech 14:5)
(5) Small stone of (Daniel 2:44-45)
(6) That was cut out without human hands (Ezekiel 9:5-11, Daniel 2:45)
(7) These are those that escape of them (Isaiah 66:18-19)
(8) Who Gather in the chosen of God into the Kingdom of God (Isaiah 66:18-20, Ezekiel 11:16-20)
(9) These are "Lively stones" (1 Peter 2:5, Ephesians 2:19-22)
(10) This is during the great tribulation (Revelation Chapters 15, 16, and 17:1-13, 13:5-18)
(11) The small Stone/Kingdom of (Daniel 2:44)
(12) Becomes a great mountain (Daniel 2:35)
(13) That causes the world government to fall (Daniel 2:35)
(14) These things come to pass before Yahshua comes/destroys the Heavens, earth, and wicked with fire(Matthew 24:29-31; Micha 1:3-4; Isaiah 66:15-17,26:21,2:9; Zephaniah 1:18,2:22,3:8,1:2-3; Haggi 2:6-7; Malichi 4:1; Joel 2:10,31; Hosea 10:8; 1 Thess 1:7-9,2; 2 Peter 3:10; Revelation 6:12-17; Revelation 20:9).

I don't see to Gog battles in here.
 
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ewq1938

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So a literal piece of land is fighting in Ezekiel 38 and 39, or would it be army from that land?

Obviously I did not say land was fighting. Let me know when you want to have a real discussion.
 
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claninja

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Obviously I did not say land was fighting. Let me know when you want to have a real discussion.

I'm trying to understand your reasoning.

You literally said there is land of magog not an army from magog:
There is the land of Magog not an army from Magog attacking as there is in Rev. The differences prove they are different events and there are MANY differences.

If I said President Trump and America are going to war on terror, would that not mean an army from America?

How is this any different than Gog and magog going to war again Israel in both Ezekiel and Revelation?
 
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StephenDiscipleofYHWH

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I don't see to Gog battles in here.
All nations are gathered against Jerusalem(including Gog) Zechariah 14:1-2 Isaiah 13:16. This is before the the thousand year period(years are as days).

Then Satan is loosed after the this period is up and he gathers Gog and Magog and all the nations of the world against the Lord's holy mountain/the camp of the saints. Revelation 20:7-9
 
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ewq1938

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I'm trying to understand your reasoning.

You literally said there is land of magog not an army from magog:


If I said President Trump and America are going to war on terror, would that not mean an army from America?

How is this any different than Gog and magog going to war again Israel in both Ezekiel and Revelation?


Again, Ezekiel only says Gog attacks, no one else.
 
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