If you came to the crucifixion in 32 AD, you got the right range.
I've explained how Anstey derived his chronology. Scofield himself, in his book What Do the Prophets Say?, affirmed it.
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Where is the Evidence of a Gap in the 70 weeks of Dan 9?
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I've explained how Anstey derived his chronology. Scofield himself, in his book What Do the Prophets Say?, affirmed it.
The Roman army was standing as it advanced on Jerusalem.
The word "temple" or any reference to it does not appear in the associated verses. The holy place is the holy city of Jerusalem (Luke 21:20).
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DavidPT
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That's an interesting point, one I am already aware of though. What we need to ask ourselves then is this. So let's try the following angle then.
The sacrifice and oblation that ceases in the midst of the 70th week, can that particular sacrifice be linked and connected to the 'daily', per those other passages I provided earlier, the same ones you mention in this post?
In the other passages I supplied, it is translated as daily.
tamiyd
taw-meed'
from an unused root meaning to stretch; properly, continuance (as indefinite extension); but used only (attributively as adjective) constant (or adverbially, constantly); ellipt. the regular (daily) sacrifice:--alway(-s), continual (employment, -ly), daily, ((n-))ever(-more), perpetual.
Let's now look for another passage where this same Hebrew word is used.
Here's an interesting one. Exodus 29:38. So let's look at it somewhat in context. In this chapter take note, though it is translated 'offering' numerous times in various verses, but not meaning 'tamiyd' though, but meaning such as in verse 40, that not every time were the same Hebrew words used each time.
Exodus 29:38 Now this is that which thou shalt offer upon the altar; two lambs of the first year day by day continually.
39 The one lamb thou shalt offer in the morning; and the other lamb thou shalt offer at even:
40 And with the one lamb a tenth deal of flour mingled with the fourth part of an hin of beaten oil; and the fourth part of an hin of wine for a drink offering.
41 And the other lamb thou shalt offer at even, and shalt do thereto according to the meat offering of the morning, and according to the drink offering thereof, for a sweet savour, an offering made by fire unto the LORD.
42 This shall be a continual burnt offering throughout your generations at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation before the LORD: where I will meet you, to speak there unto thee.
Verse 38 uses the same Hebrew word that is translated as 'daily' in those passages I provided from Daniel earlier. And so does verse 42. The question is, the type of sacrifices meant here, would that be the same type of sacrifices that would cease per Daniel 9:27 and your understanding of that verse? And if yes, why then do those other passages in Daniel I provided earlier need to use the same Hebrew words found in Daniel 9:27, which are translated sacrifice and oblations, in order for the daily to be meaning the same type of sacrifices being put to an end?
In the Exodus passage above, in verse 42 where it says this---This shall be a continual burnt offering---it's obviously referring to these very same burnt offerings just mentioned in this passage. It even says so right in verse 42. In light of all of this, I'm not convinced your argument disproves that the sacrifice and oblation in Daniel 9:27 can be meaning the daily, per those other passages in Daniel I submitted.
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Eternally Grateful
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I do not listen to men, i made that mistake years ago,
If the crucifiction occured in 32AD, that means that the 70th week, in your view, started in 28ad sometime,
Does not matter who you use, the math does not add up, not to mention, you have 3.5 years after in which nothing happened.
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Eternally Grateful
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454 + 36 = 500 years, - 6 years equals 494 years. which in any format, does not amount to 69 weeks of years.
Again, your math is off.
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DavidPT
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No historians can ever get any facts wrong then, correct? No historians are ever biased, right? If one reads about a world war involving two countries, via the perspective of one country, and via the perspective of the other country it went to war with, both perspectives are going to present the same facts identically without any bias?
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Ok, i am about done her
Jesus said they would find the destible thing, unclean thing, idol or abomination standing in the holy place.
There is only one holy place in jewish culture in which you can place an unclean thing and stop sacrifice and offering, and that is the inner sanctum, or place where only the high priest could go.
It is not jerusalem, for a man who claims to know history, your very ignorant when it comes biblically to what a holy place and an abomination which desecrated it is, even after you were given biblical examples, you ignore.
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DavidPT
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I get your math, I just don't see why you are doing it like such. 454 + 36 does equal 490, but why are you determining it like that though? The math works out, apparently, but still puzzled as to why you're using that formula found in the first line above?
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I gave you the Chapter. Did you read the verses? Did you find the "going forth of the word" in the verses?
I'm a "Dad", not a "Mom". If you want a nurse-maid, you'll need a "Mom".
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DaDad
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claninja
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I think if it was linked to the daily, the angel would have used daily, no?
It seems best to look for the Hebrew words sacrifice and offering (found together) to cross reference Daniel 9:27. I have found 3:
Psalm 40:6 In sacrifice and offering you have not delighted,
but you have given me an open ear.a
Isaiah 19:21 And the Lord will make himself known to the Egyptians, and the Egyptians will know the Lord in that day and worship with sacrifice and offering,
Amos 5:25 Did you bring to me sacrifices and offerings during the forty years in the wilderness, O house of Israel
The terms 'sacrifice and offering' seem like a generic term for worship in these contexts
However, interesting to note, that Hebrews 10 quotes Psalm 40:6, where Christ did away with the first (old covenant: worship via offerings and sacrifices) to establish the 2nd (new covenant: worshipping in spirit and in truth).
Hebrews 10:8-10 When he said above, “You have neither desired nor taken pleasure in sacrifices and offerings and burnt offerings and sin offerings” (these are offered according to the law), 9then he added, “Behold, I have come to do your will.” He does away with the first in order to establish the second. 10And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
If Christ did not end the offering at his death, there was no forgiveness of sins.
Hebrews 10:18 Where there is forgiveness of these, there is no longer any offering for sin.
sorry to nitpick, but the Hebrew word in the Daniel passages you provided is "the daily". its only found in 24 passages. the exodus verse is just 'daily'.
Considering Daniel 8,11, and 12 talk about a specific sacrifice (the daily), I would argue it is specifically about the daily sacrifice. As Daniel 9:27 is more generic, I would argue it is more of a generic term for worshiping specifically under the old covenant.
My argument was not to prove that the sacrifice and offering in Daniel 9:27 mean the daily. Quite the opposite. It was to show that the sacrifice and offering don't specifically mean the daily, but are more generic terms.
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Not true.
Who says of Cyrus, ‘He is My shepherd,
And he shall perform all My pleasure,
Saying to Jerusalem, “You shall be built,”
And to the temple, “Your foundation shall be laid.” ’ Isaiah 44:28
Those who went out from Cyrus with provision worked on restoring the city and the temple.
Let it be known to the king that the Jews who came up from you have come to us at Jerusalem, and are building the rebellious and evil city, and are finishing its walls and repairing the foundations. Let it now be known to the king that, if this city is built and the walls completed, they will not pay tax, tribute, or custom, and the king’s treasury will be diminished. Ezra 4:12-13
They were working on both, though Ezra focuses primarily on the Temple work.
The letter was written to Artexerxes to stop the work that Cyrus started.
JLB
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This doesn't change the validity of your point at all...but from what I was reading yesterday (but I can't find today)...."sacrifice" and "offering", in Jewish terms, has great significance in the different feasts (and timing of their calendar). Since Jesus was crucified during Passover, there was an afternoon sacrifice of a lamb....and also in the calendar cycle was a grain offering.
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I already told you that I shop at the GAP. It just doesn't belong in Scripture. But if you DID read the Scriptures as they intend, you won't find that seventy sevens = 490 years. THEY DON'T SAY THAT.
Yep, -- exactly what is says in:
Lev. 4:3 ... if it is the anointed [H4899] priest who sins, thus bringing guilt on the people, then let him offer for the sin which he has committed a young bull without blemish to the Lord for a sin offering.
Did you want to make it say something else?
Scripture says the "command" was directly from GOD:
“[Per Young] This phrase has reference to the issuance of the word, not from a Persian ruler but from God. Young goes on to point out that the expression the commandment, which he insists is better translated “a word” (Heb. Dābār; cf. 2Ch 30:5) is also found is Daniel 9:23 for a word from God.”
John Wolvoord, Daniel, The Key to Prophetic Revelation, Moody Press, Chicago, 1971, p. 224
John Wolvoord, Daniel, The Key to Prophetic Revelation, Moody Press, Chicago, 1971, p. 224
Did you want the "command" to come from a MAN?
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DaDad
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Okay......regarding just this phrase from Daniel 9:27:
"....and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate".
I think that because of what a lot of us have been taught (with this pertaining to the AC)....we read "abomination" and "desolate" and that whole theory comes to mind.
But...what if we just read it like a paraphrase (avoiding those words that bring in presumptions) and think of it this way....."because of the detestable way His people treated Him...rejecting Him as their Messiah [overspreading abominations]....He -Christ- removed His presence from the temple....leaving it empty [desolate]".
When Jesus was baptized....He became the actual "temple of God" (causing the Jerusalem temple to be in the process of becoming void of His presence).
I just read about the law of the 7-day closing of the [unclean] temple and started a new thread here, since that's a whole other topic - but it seems to me that the process of closing the unclean physical temple and His baptism of the Holy Spirit go hand-in-hand (and are relevant to this particular phrase).
But...what if we just read it like a paraphrase (avoiding those words that bring in presumptions) and think of it this way....."because of the detestable way His people treated Him...rejecting Him as their Messiah [overspreading abominations]....He -Christ- removed His presence from the temple....leaving it empty [desolate]".
When Jesus was baptized....He became the actual "temple of God" (causing the Jerusalem temple to be in the process of becoming void of His presence).
I just read about the law of the 7-day closing of the [unclean] temple and started a new thread here, since that's a whole other topic - but it seems to me that the process of closing the unclean physical temple and His baptism of the Holy Spirit go hand-in-hand (and are relevant to this particular phrase).
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Does anyone recall the 1986 abomination at the Neve Shalom Synagogue in Istanbul, Turkey?
Perhaps that example (as cited TWO PLACES in the Scriptures) might provide an expectation of a future event, -- possibly with the TWO PROPHETS (my speculation).
On Saturday, September 6, 1986, at 9:20 a.m., two attackers, in their 20’s, entered the synagogue shortly after the start of services. They locked the main door behind them, and standing 30 feet apart, started spraying the all-male congregation, young and old, with machine gun fire. They killed 21, wounded 4 (one seriously), and left one 17 year old unscathed (he pretended to be dead). They then poured gasoline over seven of the bodies, and set fire. Finally, they pulled the pins on their handgrenades, and blew themselves apart. Seven rabbis were among the dead, and Istabul’s chief rabbi was wounded. The ten women upstairs were unharmed.
There was immediate widespread suspicion who these men were, and that “in such a well planned terrorist action that they had no accomplices.”[1] It was speculated that their automatic weapons and grenades entered Turkey through diplomatic means,[2] and although several groups claimed responsibility, Abu Nidal was the leading suspect. (As described previously; during 1985, Libya provided Abu Nidal a home base of operations which produced 33 attacks in which 90 people were killed and 350 wounded.) Fifteen months after this attack, an article in the U.S. News & World Report (without divulging the intelligence source) pointed to Abu Nidal as the culprit.[3]
[1] “Gunmen’s Identities Stump Investigators,”, A.P. - Istanbul, Turkey, Albuquerque Jorunal, Sept.9, 1986, p. A8
[2] IBID
[3] Patricia Cullen Clark, “Washington Whispers -- Abu Nidal, Challenging Arafat,” U.S. News & World Report, Nov. 30, 1987, p. 15
There was immediate widespread suspicion who these men were, and that “in such a well planned terrorist action that they had no accomplices.”[1] It was speculated that their automatic weapons and grenades entered Turkey through diplomatic means,[2] and although several groups claimed responsibility, Abu Nidal was the leading suspect. (As described previously; during 1985, Libya provided Abu Nidal a home base of operations which produced 33 attacks in which 90 people were killed and 350 wounded.) Fifteen months after this attack, an article in the U.S. News & World Report (without divulging the intelligence source) pointed to Abu Nidal as the culprit.[3]
[1] “Gunmen’s Identities Stump Investigators,”, A.P. - Istanbul, Turkey, Albuquerque Jorunal, Sept.9, 1986, p. A8
[2] IBID
[3] Patricia Cullen Clark, “Washington Whispers -- Abu Nidal, Challenging Arafat,” U.S. News & World Report, Nov. 30, 1987, p. 15
It's also "interesting" that in 2002, apparently Abu Nidal died of multiple gunshot wounds while falling down two flights of stairs in his Baghdad apartment "suicide".
Hmmmmmm,
DaDad
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