Where is the Evidence of a Gap in the 70 weeks of Dan 9?

jgr said:

Yes, they certainly are past, with Messiah accomplishing everything He came to do.

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Ummmmm, no.
Daniel 9 has NOTHING to do with Jesus. And THAT'S why the "translators" turned into "commentators", by contorting the Scriptures to achieve a "Jesus" agenda, which neither the Text nor History support. Thus the purported "seven and sixty-two" numbering which has NO precedent in any Scripture or any Society.

jgr said:

Revelation 13 in the KJV says no such thing.

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RSV Rev. 13:18 This calls for wisdom: let him who has understanding reckon the number of the beast, for it is a human number, its number is six hundred and sixty-six.

Thanks,
DaDad

Eternally Grateful said:

It does?

The ac has never came

And then ac is said to commit the abomination which makes desolate the most holy place (jesus words) in the middle of the week, which also has not occurred yet

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Hi EG,
To put it plainly:


With Best Regards,
DaDad

BABerean2 said:

Even if He had died on the day that the 69th week ended, He would rise from the dead during the 70th week.[/COLOR]

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The way you are currently interpreting things though, you are obviously taking in the midst of the week to mean in the middle of it. Do you then think, based on that, that even He had died on the day that the 69th week ended, He would still rise in the midst of the 70th week, which would mean He rises 3.5 years after He dies? If that's not far-fetched, I don't know what is? If He dies at the end of the 69th week, this would clearly prove He can't be meant in verse 27 then, if the midst of the week is meaning 3.5 years into it.


I'm learning a lot around here though. Apparently Josephus: The Complete Works---must be holy writ, the fact those writings are being used in this thread, rather than Scripture, in order to allegedly prove certain events. I'm not saying you are doing that, but that these writings are being used in this thread, nonetheless, unless some of what has been posted can't be found on sites such as the following. https://www.ccel.org/ccel/josephus/complete.ii.xii.i.html --but can be found quoted in the Bible instead.

DaDad said:

Hi EG,
To put it plainly:

1. The "perceived in the books" is NOT a reference to the Book of Jeremiah, but rather to the Book of Psalms.
2. The "going forth of the word" is FOUND in the Book of Psalms. -- You might refresh your study of Chapter 24!
3. The "coming of an anointed one" is a reference to the First Israeli Prime Minister.
4. The "cutting off of an anointed one" is a reference to the assassinated Israeli Prime Minister.
5. The seventieth week is a reference to the Dayton/Oslo Peace Accord.
6. The "sacrifice and offering" doesn't mean what most people expect.
7. The "destroyer" who "shall come" hasn't arrived on stage yet.​

With Best Regards,
DaDad

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Daniel 9:2 (NKJV): I, Daniel, understood by the books the number of the years specified by the word of the Lord through Jeremiah the prophet, that He would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem.

Can you tell me where psalms says that he will leave jerisalem desolate for 70 years,

LittleLambofJesus said:

It looks like the 70 weeks of Daniel is a popular topic in Christianity today, so I thought I would create one and include a poll. I also am interested in discussing this.

Translations can vary so I will use this one:

YLT)
Daniel 9:
24 ‘Sevens, seventy are determined for thy people, and for thy holy city, to shut up the transgression, and to seal up sins, and to cover iniquity, and to bring in righteousness age-during, and to seal up vision and prophet, and to anoint the holy of holies.
25And thou dost know, and dost consider wisely, from the going forth of the word to restore and to build Jerusalem till Messiah the Leader [is] seven weeks, and sixty and two weeks: the broad place hath been built again, and the rampart, even in the distress of the times.
26And after the sixty and two weeks, cut off is Messiah, and the city and the holy place are not his, the Leader who hath come doth destroy the people; and its end [is] with a flood, and till the end [is] war, determined [are] desolations.
27And he hath strengthened a covenant with many — one week, and [in] the midst of the week he causeth sacrifice and present to cease, and by the wing of abominations he is making desolate, even till the consummation, and that which is determined is poured on the desolate one.’

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“Seventy weeks are determined
For your people and for your holy city,
To finish the transgression,
To make an end of sins,
To make reconciliation for iniquity,
To bring in everlasting righteousness,
To seal up vision and prophecy,
And to anoint the Most Holy.

“Know therefore and understand,
That from the going forth of the command
To restore and build Jerusalem
Until Messiah the Prince,
There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks;
The street shall be built again, and the wall,
Even in troublesome times.

“And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.

Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolate.” Daniel 9:24-27


The prophecy itself distinctly shows three separate time frames to the 70 weeks.


7 Weeks
62 Weeks
1 Week.


The work of the prophetic time line was started and stopped and started again by a world ruler.

“Know therefore and understand,
That from the going forth of the command
To restore and build Jerusalem
Until Messiah the Prince,
There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks;


The gap in between to 7 weeks and 62 weeks is when the work was ceased and began again, to culminate with "Messiah the Prince". The first 69 weeks ended at the event called "Messiah the Prince".

• The timeline begins -

Now in the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, that the word of the Lord by the mouth of Jeremiah might be fulfilled, the Lord stirred up the spirit of Cyrus king of Persia, so that he made a proclamation throughout all his kingdom, and also put it in writing, saying,
Thus says Cyrus king of Persia:
All the kingdoms of the earth the Lord God of heaven has given me. And He has commanded me to build Him a house at Jerusalem which is in Judah. Ezra 1:1-3

• The timeline is paused -

And I gave the command, and a search has been made, and it was found that this city in former times has revolted against kings, and rebellion and sedition have been fostered in it. There have also been mighty kings over Jerusalem, who have ruled over all the region beyond the River; and tax, tribute, and custom were paid to them. Now give the command to make these men cease, that this city may not be built until the command is given by me.
Take heed now that you do not fail to do this. Why should damage increase to the hurt of the kings?
Now when the copy of King Artaxerxes’ letter was read before Rehum, Shimshai the scribe, and their companions, they went up in haste to Jerusalem against the Jews, and by force of arms made them cease. Thus the work of the house of God which is at Jerusalem ceased, and it was discontinued until the second year of the reign of Darius king of Persia. Ezra 4:19-24




Likewise the 70th week will follow the same pattern and be initiated by a world ruler "the prince who is to come", when he confirms a covenant with many for 1 week.




The city and sanctuary was destroyed in verse 26, during the first century, yet the events of verse 27 show temple activities will be resumed.



Three distinct time frames make up the entire 70 week time line, complete with gaps in between.


7 Weeks
62 Weeks
1 Week.



JLB

Eternally Grateful said:

If artexerxes started his reign in 465 Bc, and gave the command to restore jerusalem in 445 bc, how did cyrus give a decree in 457BC when artexerxes was in power? Oh and anothe fact, he died in 530BC, how could give a command 70 years after he died?

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I found the following article. It's rather lengthy though, plus it seems a bit complex IMO, in regards to the math being used. That aside, there are some good arguments in regards to the initial starting date of the 69 weeks. Plus there are some good arguments in regards to which event the end of the 69 weeks is referring to. Haven't gotten through the entire article as of yet. Wondering if this is basically the same position you currently hold to since it appears to perhaps be?

http://endtimepilgrim.org/70wks8.htm

Eternally Grateful said:

It does not have to, all it has to do is tell us how Messiah will be introduced to his people. Which it does, Gabriel gives us when it will happen in Dan 9.

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Still not following your logic. Why not start with an earlier messianic prophecy?

Micah 5:2
But you, O Bethlehem Ephrathah,
who are too little to be among the clans of Judah,
from you shall come forth for me
one who is to be ruler in Israel,
whose coming forth is from of old,
from ancient days.

Eternally Grateful said:

Daniel 9 says this abomination will cause sacrifice in the temple to cease, period, he does not say it would stop the NEED for sacrifice, so saying that is it, is adding to the word.

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It states 'he' will put an end to sacrifice and offering. Not that the AOD would end the sacrifice and offering.

Daniel 9:27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’h In the middle of the ‘seven’i he will put an end to sacrifice and offering.

Simple solution to who will end the sacrifice: what new testament scripture states the antichrist or AOD will put and end to the sacrifice and offering?

Eternally Grateful said:

An idol placed (or as jesus said, standing) in the holy place is what causes sacrifice to stop, because the holy place is made desolate (unclean)

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The temple was already desolate before it's destruction:

Matthew 23:38 See, your house is left to you desolate. (is left is present indicative)

Eternally Grateful said:

Please read the scripture account of the very events, and then show us where it says cyrus ever commanded isreal to rebuild the city?

Even darius, who came after cyrus, confirmed he ONLY gave the command to rebuild the temple.

I already showed the scripture where it says he only gave the command to rebuild the temple, rebuilding the temple does not fulfill Dan 9, no matter how hard you want it to be so,

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So Isaiah's prophecy is wrong?

Eternally Grateful said:

I suggest you look at the facts and stop trying to build a doctrine on things scripture does not say,

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Pot calling the kettle black

Eternally Grateful said:

Isaiah did say cyrus would start the rebuilding of the city,

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Correct, so is Isaiah a false prophet, since you don't believe Cyrus called for Jerusalem to be rebuilt?

JLB777 said:

“Seventy weeks are determined
For your people and for your holy city,
To finish the transgression,
To make an end of sins,
To make reconciliation for iniquity,
To bring in everlasting righteousness,
To seal up vision and prophecy,
And to anoint the Most Holy.

“Know therefore and understand,
That from the going forth of the command
To restore and build Jerusalem
Until Messiah the Prince,
There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks;
The street shall be built again, and the wall,
Even in troublesome times.

“And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.

Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolate.” Daniel 9:24-27


The prophecy itself distinctly shows three separate time frames to the 70 weeks.


7 Weeks
62 Weeks
1 Week.


The work of the prophetic time line was started and stopped and started again by a world ruler.

“Know therefore and understand,
That from the going forth of the command
To restore and build Jerusalem
Until Messiah the Prince,
There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks;


The gap in between to 7 weeks and 62 weeks is when the work was ceased and began again, to culminate with "Messiah the Prince". The first 69 weeks ended at the event called "Messiah the Prince".

• The timeline begins -

Now in the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, that the word of the Lord by the mouth of Jeremiah might be fulfilled, the Lord stirred up the spirit of Cyrus king of Persia, so that he made a proclamation throughout all his kingdom, and also put it in writing, saying,
Thus says Cyrus king of Persia:
All the kingdoms of the earth the Lord God of heaven has given me. And He has commanded me to build Him a house at Jerusalem which is in Judah. Ezra 1:1-3

• The timeline is paused -

And I gave the command, and a search has been made, and it was found that this city in former times has revolted against kings, and rebellion and sedition have been fostered in it. There have also been mighty kings over Jerusalem, who have ruled over all the region beyond the River; and tax, tribute, and custom were paid to them. Now give the command to make these men cease, that this city may not be built until the command is given by me.
Take heed now that you do not fail to do this. Why should damage increase to the hurt of the kings?
Now when the copy of King Artaxerxes’ letter was read before Rehum, Shimshai the scribe, and their companions, they went up in haste to Jerusalem against the Jews, and by force of arms made them cease. Thus the work of the house of God which is at Jerusalem ceased, and it was discontinued until the second year of the reign of Darius king of Persia. Ezra 4:19-24




Likewise the 70th week will follow the same pattern and be initiated by a world ruler "the prince who is to come", when he confirms a covenant with many for 1 week.

Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.​

The city and sanctuary was destroyed in verse 26, during the first century, yet the events of verse 27 show temple activities will be resumed.



Three distinct time frames make up the entire 70 week time line, complete with gaps in between.


7 Weeks
62 Weeks
1 Week.



JLB

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Assuming there are gaps between all of these, in order to prove this then, wherever one thinks the 62 weeks end, as in what date, simply count back from that date 62 weeks in order to see what date that would be. Then see if the Bible or history records anything significant about that date in particular.

DavidPT said:

I found the following article. It's rather lengthy though, plus it seems a bit complex IMO, in regards to the math being used. That aside, there are some good arguments in regards to the initial starting date of the 69 weeks. Plus there are some good arguments in regards to which event the end of the 69 weeks is referring to. Haven't gotten through the entire article as of yet. Wondering if this is basically the same position you currently hold to since it appears to perhaps be?

http://endtimepilgrim.org/70wks8.htm

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Wel he went way deeper than I Did, i did not try to determin when jesus entered (exact time) i just knew it was in the month of nisan dueing passover week,

I then found that in that same month in the year of Artexerxes, a command was given to restore jerusalem.

I then looked up when Artexerxes was in power, and figured out what year was his 20th (which was 445 Bc)

I then took the 69 weeks to covert to days knowing hebrews used the lunar cycle (360) of days and then attempted to covert to solar year or roman calendar (365 days). And came up with 476 years.

I then used this conversion to come up to 32 Ad, (i knew Romans calendar has leap year, yet jewish calendar has sabitical years to make up for time) so i did not get into that great detail as he did.


I then looked at all commands to restorem and found no other command to restor the city,

After this, i understood no other command could be used, either way. because all of them would fall way outside the time of jesus baptism, and jesus birth would not count.

I then took Zechariahs prophesy of how messiah would be introduced, on a donkey, and knowing jesus died in month of nisan passover week (depending on when you think he was born) in an up to 3 year period on same date, and again, this is only time that fit.

DavidPT said:

Do you then think, based on that, that even He had died on the day that the 69th week ended, He would still rise in the midst of the 70th week, which would mean He rises 3.5 years after He dies? If that's not far-fetched, I don't know what is? If He dies at the end of the 69th week

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Scripture doesn't say the messiah is cut off at the end of the 69th week, but after.
The Hebrew word is wə-’a-ḥă-rê וְאַחֲרֵ֤י. What number comes after 69? 70

DavidPT said:

this would clearly prove He can't be meant in verse 27 then, if the midst of the week is meaning 3.5 years into it.

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If it said at the end of the 69th week, I would agree with you. But it clearly says after the 69th week.

Also, as asked to you in post #609. Did you find any other OT prophecies with specific time frames that involve a gap that make them actually longer than the specific time frame?

claninja said:

Simple solution to who will end the sacrifice: what new testament scripture states the antichrist or AOD will put and end to the sacrifice and offering?

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The OT is not Scripture as well then? There's several Scriptures in the OT, in the book of Daniel, oddly enough, that says just that.


Daniel 8:12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.
13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Daniel 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

Daniel 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Daniel 12:11 clearly involves the end of the age. It is clearly referring to Daniel 11:31 for one. And if Daniel 12:11 involves the end of this age, then so must Daniel 11:31 involve the end of this age.




What I have done here is provided several passages, where the contexts involve both the ceasing of sacrifices, and an AOD. What your side then needs to do is this. Provide at least one context from the NT which supports your position. IOW provide a passage, like I did above, where in that same context it involves both the ceasing of sacrifices and an AOD. So it needs to be in the same verse then, the way all of the above are in the same verse. Good luck with that if your position is that Christ is meant in verse 27.


BTW, I like my simple solution even better, but not because I thought of it, but because I would like to see proof from the NT where any verse involving Christ's death and resurrection, that in that same verse, it also involves an AOD. Until I see a verse like that, your side is far from winning the argument thusfar.

Eternally Grateful said:

Daniel 9:2 (NKJV): I, Daniel, understood by the books the number of the years specified by the word of the Lord through Jeremiah the prophet, that He would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem.

Can you tell me where psalms says that he will leave jerisalem desolate for 70 years,

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Jeremiah's ~desolate for seventy years~, and Daniel cited ~Jeremiah's seventy years~ have two different fulfillments. One was in 500 BC, and the second is in the era approximate to 1948 in accordance with the angelic instructions in 12:4 & 9.

Book 19, prophetic for the 1900's, and Chapter 24 = 1924 ( per J.R. Church "Hidden Prophecies In The Psalms"), provides the "going forth of the word". But of course, that's if you follow the angel's instructions that the Book of Daniel is "shut up and sealed until the time of the end".

OR, you can follow those who disobey Scripture, and have their nonsense.

Thanks,
DaDad

claninja said:

Still not following your logic. Why not start with an earlier messianic prophecy?

Micah 5:2
But you, O Bethlehem Ephrathah,
who are too little to be among the clans of Judah,
from you shall come forth for me
one who is to be ruler in Israel,
whose coming forth is from of old,
from ancient days.

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This still des not show how he will come, only one prophesy does.

Zechariah 9:9 (NKJV): The Coming King
9 “Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion!
Shout, O daughter of Jerusalem!
Behold, your King is coming to you;
He is just and having salvation,
Lowly and riding on a donkey,
A colt, the foal of a donkey.

This prophesy states the event which will happen, and tells Israel to look fr this event, for this is how your messiah will come

It states 'he' will put an end to sacrifice and offering. Not that the AOD would end the sacrifice and offering.

Daniel 9:27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’h In the middle of the ‘seven’i he will put an end to sacrifice and offering.

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And he will, y placing an idol (abomination of desolation) in the holy place

Simple solution to who will end the sacrifice: what new testament scripture states the antichrist or AOD will put and end to the sacrifice and offering?

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Bad solution, does not take into acount what an abomination of desolation is, or what jesus claimed it was

Matthew 24:15 (NKJV): Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand),

jesus does not say when you see the temple in ruins, when you se it laying desolate, he says when you see the abomination itself standing in the holy place.

I trust jesus knows what gabriel meant, so i will listem to him, and another type or example of what antiochus epiphanes did when he slaughtered a pig (an abomination) in the holy place making it desolate)

Which at the time, cause sacrifice and burnt offering to cease. According to the law.

The temple was already desolate before it's destruction:

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Really, i am not talking about the temple, i am talking about the holy place, where jesus said they would see an abomination standing in it, what was it and who did it?

Matthew 23:38 See, your house is left to you desolate. (is left is present indicative)

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The prophesy said abomination of desolation, jesus said they would see it, jesus spoke in matt 24 of it as a future event. So how could that desolation be the same.

Sometimes we just have to look at fine details.

So Isaiah's prophecy is wrong?

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So what scripture says Cyrus did is wrong? Why are you so afraid to look at th actual commands and decrees as written in scripture? This should be a warning sign to you,

Pot calling the kettle black

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You started it

Correct, so is Isaiah a false prophet, since you don't believe Cyrus called for Jerusalem to be rebuilt?

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All i can do is see what scripture says cyrus actually did.

Your stuck on a prophesy, because the actual events do not support you

Again, this should be a red flag.

claninja said:

Scripture doesn't say the messiah is cut off at the end of the 69th week, but after.
The Hebrew word is wə-’a-ḥă-rê וְאַחֲרֵ֤י. What number comes after 69? 70



If it said at the end of the 69th week, I would agree with you. But it clearly says after the 69th week.

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I don't disagree that after can literally mean after something. But it can also mean at the conclusion of something. And unless you disagree with that in general, either interpretation is possible IMO.

claninja said:

Also, as asked to you in post #609. Did you find any other OT prophecies with specific time frames that involve a gap that make them actually longer than the specific time frame?

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I guess I need to revisit post #609. I'll have another look at it and see if I might have an answer or not. Probably after lunch though. I might look at again it before lunch, but in regards to an answer of some kind, will probably have to wait until after lunch.

JLB777 said:

...
The prophecy itself distinctly shows three separate time frames to the 70 weeks.

7 Weeks
62 Weeks
1 Week.

There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks;

The gap in between to 7 weeks and 62 weeks is when the work was ceased and began again, to culminate with "Messiah the Prince".

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I love the GAP. I buy all my jeans there. But a GAP doesn't belong is Scripture.

... and the "weeks" are not "weeks". So please don't presume a ~490 year fulfillment.

Thanks,
DaDad

mkgal1 said:

That doesn't really answer my question, though.
Since you and I have different understandings of this passage....then obviously there is a disconnect partially in the language - and I am presuming the word "desolate" has a lot to do with it. That's why I asked about that word specifically.


What happened in the temple? What was Jesus' death on the cross called? Weren't they BOTH called "sacrifices"? Which one is considered superior? Take a look at Hebrews:

Hebrews 8:13 ~ By speaking of a new covenant, He has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.​

May we just focus on "desolate" for a while, please?


I'm not quite sure what you're saying here.....but Scripture does, indeed, help us to interpret Scripture.

You realize the ancient Jews understood that God's presence went with them in the Ark of the Covenant....and later filled the temple in Jerusalem.....right? They didn't have the understanding we have now.....that God's presence isn't restricted.

That Strong's definition of "shamem" says "desolate". The definition of that is:

Dictionary = (of a place) deserted of people and in a state of bleak and dismal emptiness.

It can then be said that the temple was empty of God's presence (which is what I believe is the meaning in this passage).

Jesus is recorded as saying:

Matthew 23:38 ~ "See, your house is left to you, desolate."

From Bible Study Tools:

As with the Tabernacle, the Temple service included elaborate procedures by which man could approach God’s presence in a limited way. When the Temple was dedicated, God’s presence came to the Temple (1K. 1K. 8:10-11; 2Chr. 2Chr. 5:13-14). In the days of Ezekiel, after the civil war and after the Northern Kingdom had fallen into apostasy and been judged by Assyria, the sin of the Southern Kingdom, where Jerusalem and the Temple were located, was so severe as to drive God from His sanctuary. God no longer met with Israel in the Temple because it was no longer His House(Eze. Eze. 8:6; Eze. 9:3; Eze. 10:4, Eze. 10:18-19; Eze. 11:22-23 cf. Mtt. Mat. 23:38-39; Mtt. Mat. 24:3; Luke Luke 13:35). Soon thereafter, the Temple was destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar and the Jews that remained were exiled to Babylon. Thus, an important historic principle was established concerning the Temple: when God leaves His House, it becomes subject to destruction. ​

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After having looked at this post again, you ask some questions that are not easy to answer, meaning in writing, as in typing up one's thoughts on the matter. But I will see what I can do after lunch maybe.

DaDad said:

Jeremiah's ~desolate for seventy years~, and Daniel cited ~Jeremiah's seventy years~ have two different fulfillments. One was in 500 BC, and the second is in the era approximate to 1948 in accordance with the angelic instructions in 12:4 & 9.

Book 19, prophetic for the 1900's, and Chapter 24 = 1924 ( per J.R. Church "Hidden Prophecies In The Psalms"), provides the "going forth of the word". But of course, that's if you follow the angel's instructions that the Book of Daniel is "shut up and sealed until the time of the end".

OR, you can follow those who disobey Scripture, and have their nonsense.

Thanks,
DaDad

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What?

Where is this in psalms? Your the one who said the boom was psalms, can you support your thought?

DavidPT said:

Daniel 8:12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.
13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Daniel 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

Daniel 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Daniel 12:11 clearly involves the end of the age. It is clearly referring to Daniel 11:31 for one. And if Daniel 12:11 involves the end of this age, then so must Daniel 11:31 involve the end of this age.

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Interesting to note that only Daniel 9:27 contains the Hebrew word for sacrifice and offering. Daniel 8, 11, and 12 don't actually contain the Hebrew word for sacrifice or offering.

The word in Daniel 8, 11, 12 is הַתָּמִ֖יד which means continuous or daily. It is used 24 times in the OT. In Daniel, is the only time this word is not connected to a Hebrew word for offering. The words for sacrifice and offering in Daniel 8, 11, and 12 are added. Otherwise, the other 19 times it is used, it's always attached to a Hebrew word for offering.

DavidPT said:

IOW provide a passage, like I did above, where in that same context it involves both the ceasing of sacrifices and an AOD.

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Is there new testament scripture that states the AOD will take away the sacrifice and offering (the law)?

In regards to sacrifices and offerings, Christ did take them away through the offering of himself once for all.

Hebrews 10:8-10 saying above — ‘Sacrifice, and offering, and burnt-offerings, and concerning sin-offering Thou didst not will, nor delight in,’ — which according to the law are offered — then he said, ‘Lo, I come to do, O God, Thy will;’ he doth take away the first that the second he may establish; in the which will we are having been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once,

Romans 10:4 For Christ is an end of law for righteousness to every one who is believing,

DavidPT said:

BTW, I like my simple solution even better, but not because I thought of it, but because I would like to see proof from the NT where any verse involving Christ's death and resurrection, that in that same verse, it also involves an AOD. Until I see a verse like that, your side is far from winning the argument thusfar.

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Not following your argument. Who believes Jesus' death and the AOD occur at the same time?

Have you read my post #608 it explains why I believe they wouldn't be together, why I believe they are separated by 40 years.

DavidPT said:

I guess I need to revisit post #609

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Sorry, post #608

claninja said:

I believe the 6 points of Daniel 9:24 are fulfilled at Christ's first coming. Since I believe the they are fulfilled at Christ's 1st coming, the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple are not required to be within the 70 'sevens'.

I believe the prophecy of the 70 'sevens' (Daniel 9:24-26a,27a) are fulfilled at Christ's 1st coming. I believe Daniel 9:26b-27b are outside of the 70 'sevens' and were fulfilled in 70ad.

I am inserting a 40 year gap, but not within the context of the 70 'sevens'. Are there any other prophecies with a specific time frame given and a gap inserted within that time frame? none that I know of. But there are gaps in inserted in prophecy when no time frame is given, one example is luke 4:17-21.

Isaiah 61:1-2
The Spirit of the Sovereign Lord is on me, because the Lord has anointed me
to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted,
to proclaim freedom for the captives and release from darkness for the prisoners,a
to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor
gap
Isaiah 61:2
and the day of vengeance of our God,

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Eternally Grateful said:

Wel he went way deeper than I Did, i did not try to determin when jesus entered (exact time) i just knew it was in the month of nisan dueing passover week,

I then found that in that same month in the year of Artexerxes, a command was given to restore jerusalem.

I then looked up when Artexerxes was in power, and figured out what year was his 20th (which was 445 Bc)

I then took the 69 weeks to covert to days knowing hebrews used the lunar cycle (360) of days and then attempted to covert to solar year or roman calendar (365 days). And came up with 476 years.

I then used this conversion to come up to 32 Ad, (i knew Romans calendar has leap year, yet jewish calendar has sabitical years to make up for time) so i did not get into that great detail as he did.


I then looked at all commands to restorem and found no other command to restor the city,

After this, i understood no other command could be used, either way. because all of them would fall way outside the time of jesus baptism, and jesus birth would not count.

I then took Zechariahs prophesy of how messiah would be introduced, on a donkey, and knowing jesus died in month of nisan passover week (depending on when you think he was born) in an up to 3 year period on same date, and again, this is only time that fit.

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Since I like to be fair and balanced, like FoxNews(lol), I did find the following article just now which argues against, and not for, that of Sir Robert Anderson in his book The Coming Prince.
https://www.neverthirsty.org/bible-...-the-correct-calculation-of-daniels-69-weeks/


Unfortunately I'm far from an expert in these type of things. At this point in time, until I maybe research these things more in-depth, it is difficult for me to judge which of the two articles I have submitted has the better date analysis arguments.