ARE GOD'S 10 COMMANDMENTS ABOLISHED?

LoveGodsWord · Aug 23, 2018

Hi all,

Some people are going around teaching that God's 10 Commandments are ABOLISHED and no longer a standard for Christian living. Yet the NEW TESTAMENT alone does not teach this at all.

1 JOHN 2:1-4
[1], MY LITTLE CHILDREN, THESE THINGS, I WRITE UNTO YOU THE YOU SIN NOT. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
[2], And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
[3], And HEREBY WE KNOW THAT WE KNOW HIM, IF WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS.
[4], HE THAT SAYS, I KNOW HIM AND DOES NOT KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS, IS A LIAR AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM.

WHAT DID JESUS AND THE APOSTLES TEACH ABOUT GOD’S LAW
(the scriptures below are no where near exhaustive from the NT alone)

Jesus taught the 10 commandments…..

1. Jesus kept God’s Law (10 commandments) and said the Law and the prophets would not pass away (Matt 5:17-18)
2. Jesus taught others to follow the 10 commandments (Mark 10:17-21)
3. Jesus taught that Love is the fulfilling (doing) of God’s Law (10 commandments Matt 22:36-40)
4. If we break God’s Law by following man-made traditions we are not following God (Matt 15:3-9)
5. Jesus says if we commit sin we are a servant of sin and he has come to free us from sin (John 8:32-36)
6. Jesus taught if you love God you will keep God’s Law and abide in His Love (John 14:15; 15:10
7. If anyone is breaking any of God’s commandments and teaching others to do so will be called least in the kingdom of heaven <least = lost> (Matt 5:19)
8. No one can obey God’s Law producing the fruit of obedience of ourselves and unless we abide in Jesus we can do nothing (John 15:4-10)

Paul affirms the Ten Commandments……

1. Paul teaches God's people keep the Sabbath Hebrews 4.
2. Paul tells gentiles that "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of GOD" 1 Cor 7:19
3. Paul tells gentiles "it is not the HEARERS of the Law that are just before God but the DOERS of the Law will be justified... on the day when according to my GOSPEL God will judge all mankind" Rom 2:13-16
4. Paul asks that gentiles consider the doctrine of LAW "Do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we establish the Law of God" Rom 3:31
5. Paul tells ALL Christians that it is only the lost who will "not subject themselves to the Law of God neither indeed CAN they" Rom 8:6-8
6 Paul reaches all Christians under the NEW Covenant that God's LAW as known in Jer 31:31-33 is "written on the heart and mind" Heb 8:7-11
7. Paul tells all Christians that the OT text is to be used for Doctrine 2Tim 3:16
AND He never claims that "if I did not write it -- it is not scripture for us today" -- as one or two have imagined for us.
8. Paul tells all Christians that the 5th commandment is the "FIRST commandment with a promise" Eph 6:1-2 and is binding on all Christians.
9. God's Law (10 commandments) are holy, just and good (Rom 7:12)
10. God's Law gives us a knowledge of what sin is (Rom 3:20; 7:7)
11. The penalty of breaking God's Law without Jesus is death (Rom 6:23)
12. If we break God's Law we dishonor God (Rom 2:23)
13. If we sin we are "under the Law" and guilty before God (Rom 3:19)
14. We are saved by faith but our faith establishes the Law in us (Rom 3:31)
15. If we are saved by grace we should not break God's Law (Rom 6:1-7)
16. We should not break God's Law if we are under grace (Rom 6:15)
17. We are to serve the Law of God through the mind because that is where sin starts (Rom 6:17; 7:25; 8:4; 12:2)
18. It is God's Law that brings us to Jesus (Gal 3:24)
19. God's salvation frees us from sin so we can be obedient to God's Law and live a life of holiness (Rom 6:22)
20. We will be judged by God's Law and only those that are obedient will be justified because of their faith (Rom 2:4-13)
21. God's Law can only be obeyed through love and a changed heart which comes by faith in God's Word (Rom 2:21-29; 13:9-10; Heb 8:9-10)
22. If we break God's Law and are in unrepentant sin we will be lost and will received God's judgements (Heb 10:26-27)

John affirms the 10 commandments……

1. John says it is only by keeping God’s 10 commandments that we know that we know God (1 John 2:3)
2. If someone says that they know God and do not keep God’s 10 commandments they are lying and not telling the truth (1 John 2:4)
3. We should purify ourselves as Jesus is pure (1 John 3:3)
4. Sin is the breaking of God’s 10 commandments (1 John 3:4)
5. Whoever is abiding in Christ does not commit sin (1 John 3:6; John 15:4-10)
6. If you are in unrepentant sin you have not seen Jesus or know him (1 John 3:6)
7. John warns us that only those that are obedience to God’s Law are his true followers (1 John 3:7)
8. If someone is committing unrepentant sin they are following the devil and not God (1 John 3:7)
9. If you are born of God and abiding in him you will not commit sin (1 John 3:9; 1 John 3:6; John 15:4-10
10. It is the keeping of God’s commandments that is the difference between those that are following God and those that are not following God (1 John 3:10; 1 John 5:3)
11. It is only by Love through faith that we can keep God’s commandments (1 John 5:3-4)
12. God’s true believers in the end days will keep all of God’s commandments through faith in Jesus (Rev 14:12; 22:14)

James also affirms the 10 commandments…….

1. James says God’s Law (10 commandments) are a Royal Law (James 2:8)
2. If we break one of God’s commandments we a guilty before God as sinners breaking all of God’s Law and gave some examples of breaking God’s Law (James 2:9-11)
3. James says God’s Law is a law of liberty and freedom (James 2:12)
4. The 10 commandments (God’s Law) are the standard in the judgment (James 2:12)
5. If our faith does not have the fruit of obedience to God’s Law it is dead and not true faith (James 2:16-26)

Peter affirms the 10 commandments……..

1. Sanctification is to obedience to God’s Law (1 Pet 1:2)
2. We can only be changed from sin to obedience to God’s Law by the power of God and it will be revealed in the last days (1 Pet 1:5)
3. We should give up our sins to be holy because Jesus is holy (1 Pet 1:13-16)
4. Jesus is your example who did no sin (1 Pet 2:21-22)
5. Cease from sin and do not live in the flesh (1 Pet 4:1-3)
6. Judgement will begin at the house of God and sinners (those breaking God’s 10 commandments) will not be saved.
7. God has given us his precious promises and as we believe them God will grant us his divine power to live a life of Godliness (obedience to God’s Law; 2 Pet 1:2-4)
8. The Un-Godly (disobedient to God’s Law) will be like Sodom and Gomorrah (2 Pet 2:6)
9. If any turn away from God’s Law and are in unrepentant sin breaking any of God’10 commandments they will be lost (2 Pet 2:20-22)
10 God is not willing that any should perish but that everyone should come to repentance and turn away from sin to follow God’s 10 commandments because those that do not will receive the judgements of God (2 Pet 3:5-14)

I see some people do not know what made up the OLD COVENANT laws and their purpose in both the OLD and NEW COVENANT and therefore think God's LAW has been abolished when it is only th SHADOW laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT and not God's ETERNAL LAW that gives us a KNOWLEDGE of what sin is when broken (Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; James 2:11; 1 John 3:4)

CAN'T HAVE A GOSPEL WITHOUT THE LAW

I believe the role of God's LAW is to give us a KNOLEDGE of good and evil; SIN and RIGHTOUESNESS. Nothing more and nothing less. They are our duty of LOVE to God and man. They show us that all we can do without Jesus is sin and that we are all sinners in need of a Saviour.

*If God's LAW is ABOLSHED then we no longer have any KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is.
*If we have no KNOWLEDGE of what sin is and that we are sinners we ahve no need of a Saviour
*If we have no need of a Saviour then we have no Salvation
*If we have no Salavtion then we are still in our sins and the scriputure is fulfilled...

ROMANS 2:12-13 [12], For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; [13], For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

My thoughts is that we are NOT SAVED by God's 10 Commandments. Their purpose is to give us a KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is and to lead us to the Cross so that we might be justified by faith (Galatains 3:23-24). The ROLE of God's LAW is to give us a KNOWLEDGE of good and evil; SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS (Romans 3:20; Psalms 119:172; James 2:11 Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4). In the NEW COVENANT God's LAW is to be written on our hearts as we are born again to LOVE and LOVE is the fulfilling of God's LAW in those who BELIEVE God's WORD (Hebrews 8:10-12; Romans 13:8-10; Matthew 22:36-40; 1 John 3:3-10; John 3:3)

OPEN FOR FRIENDLY CHRISTIAN DISCUSSION.

What are your thoughts? ARE God's 10 Commandments ABOLISHED like some think and no longer the standard for Christian living?

May God bless you as we seek him through his WORD :wave:

1stcenturylady · Aug 23, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
Hi all,

Some people are going around teaching that God's 10 Commandments are ABOLISHED and no longer a standard for Christian living. Yet the NEW TESTAMENT alone does not teach this at all.

1 JOHN 2:1-4
[1], MY LITTLE CHILDREN, THESE THINGS, I WRITE UNTO YOU THE YOU SIN NOT. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
[2], And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
[3], And HEREBY WE KNOW THAT WE KNOW HIM, IF WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS.
[4], HE THAT SAYS, I KNOW HIM AND DOES NOT KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS, IS A LIAR AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM.

WHAT DID JESUS AND THE APOSTLES TEACH ABOUT GOD’S LAW
(the scriptures below are no where near exhaustive from the NT alone)

Jesus taught the 10 commandments…..

1. Jesus kept God’s Law (10 commandments) and said the Law and the prophets would not pass away (Matt 5:17-18)
2. Jesus taught others to follow the 10 commandments (Mark 10:17-21)
3. Jesus taught that Love is the fulfilling (doing) of God’s Law (10 commandments Matt 22:36-40)
4. If we break God’s Law by following man-made traditions we are not following God (Matt 15:3-9)
5. Jesus says if we commit sin we are a servant of sin and he has come to free us from sin (John 8:32-36)
6. Jesus taught if you love God you will keep God’s Law and abide in His Love (John 14:15; 15:10
7. If anyone is breaking any of God’s commandments and teaching others to do so will be called least in the kingdom of heaven <least = lost> (Matt 5:19)
8. No one can obey God’s Law producing the fruit of obedience of ourselves and unless we abide in Jesus we can do nothing (John 15:4-10)

Paul affirms the Ten Commandments……

1. Paul teaches God's people keep the Sabbath Hebrews 4.
2. Paul tells gentiles that "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of GOD" 1 Cor 7:19
3. Paul tells gentiles "it is not the HEARERS of the Law that are just before God but the DOERS of the Law will be justified... on the day when according to my GOSPEL God will judge all mankind" Rom 2:13-16
4. Paul asks that gentiles consider the doctrine of LAW "Do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we establish the Law of God" Rom 3:31
5. Paul tells ALL Christians that it is only the lost who will "not subject themselves to the Law of God neither indeed CAN they" Rom 8:6-8
6 Paul reaches all Christians under the NEW Covenant that God's LAW as known in Jer 31:31-33 is "written on the heart and mind" Heb 8:7-11
7. Paul tells all Christians that the OT text is to be used for Doctrine 2Tim 3:16
AND He never claims that "if I did not write it -- it is not scripture for us today" -- as one or two have imagined for us.
8. Paul tells all Christians that the 5th commandment is the "FIRST commandment with a promise" Eph 6:1-2 and is binding on all Christians.
9. God's Law (10 commandments) are holy, just and good (Rom 7:12)
10. God's Law gives us a knowledge of what sin is (Rom 3:20; 7:7)
11. The penalty of breaking God's Law without Jesus is death (Rom 6:23)
12. If we break God's Law we dishonor God (Rom 2:23)
13. If we sin we are "under the Law" and guilty before God (Rom 3:19)
14. We are saved by faith but our faith establishes the Law in us (Rom 3:31)
15. If we are saved by grace we should not break God's Law (Rom 6:1-7)
16. We should not break God's Law if we are under grace (Rom 6:15)
17. We are to serve the Law of God through the mind because that is where sin starts (Rom 6:17; 7:25; 8:4; 12:2)
18. It is God's Law that brings us to Jesus (Gal 3:24)
19. God's salvation frees us from sin so we can be obedient to God's Law and live a life of holiness (Rom 6:22)
20. We will be judged by God's Law and only those that are obedient will be justified because of their faith (Rom 2:4-13)
21. God's Law can only be obeyed through love and a changed heart which comes by faith in God's Word (Rom 2:21-29; 13:9-10; Heb 8:9-10)
22. If we break God's Law and are in unrepentant sin we will be lost and will received God's judgements (Heb 10:26-27)

John affirms the 10 commandments……

1. John says it is only by keeping God’s 10 commandments that we know that we know God (1 John 2:3)
2. If someone says that they know God and do not keep God’s 10 commandments they are lying and not telling the truth (1 John 2:4)
3. We should purify ourselves as Jesus is pure (1 John 3:3)
4. Sin is the breaking of God’s 10 commandments (1 John 3:4)
5. Whoever is abiding in Christ does not commit sin (1 John 3:6; John 15:4-10)
6. If you are in unrepentant sin you have not seen Jesus or know him (1 John 3:6)
7. John warns us that only those that are obedience to God’s Law are his true followers (1 John 3:7)
8. If someone is committing unrepentant sin they are following the devil and not God (1 John 3:7)
9. If you are born of God and abiding in him you will not commit sin (1 John 3:9; 1 John 3:6; John 15:4-10
10. It is the keeping of God’s commandments that is the difference between those that are following God and those that are not following God (1 John 3:10; 1 John 5:3)
11. It is only by Love through faith that we can keep God’s commandments (1 John 5:3-4)
12. God’s true believers in the end days will keep all of God’s commandments through faith in Jesus (Rev 14:12; 22:14)

James also affirms the 10 commandments…….

1. James says God’s Law (10 commandments) are a Royal Law (James 2:8)
2. If we break one of God’s commandments we a guilty before God as sinners breaking all of God’s Law and gave some examples of breaking God’s Law (James 2:9-11)
3. James says God’s Law is a law of liberty and freedom (James 2:12)
4. The 10 commandments (God’s Law) are the standard in the judgment (James 2:12)
5. If our faith does not have the fruit of obedience to God’s Law it is dead and not true faith (James 2:16-26)

Peter affirms the 10 commandments……..

1. Sanctification is to obedience to God’s Law (1 Pet 1:2)
2. We can only be changed from sin to obedience to God’s Law by the power of God and it will be revealed in the last days (1 Pet 1:5)
3. We should give up our sins to be holy because Jesus is holy (1 Pet 1:13-16)
4. Jesus is your example who did no sin (1 Pet 2:21-22)
5. Cease from sin and do not live in the flesh (1 Pet 4:1-3)
6. Judgement will begin at the house of God and sinners (those breaking God’s 10 commandments) will not be saved.
7. God has given us his precious promises and as we believe them God will grant us his divine power to live a life of Godliness (obedience to God’s Law; 2 Pet 1:2-4)
8. The Un-Godly (disobedient to God’s Law) will be like Sodom and Gomorrah (2 Pet 2:6)
9. If any turn away from God’s Law and are in unrepentant sin breaking any of God’10 commandments they will be lost (2 Pet 2:20-22)
10 God is not willing that any should perish but that everyone should come to repentance and turn away from sin to follow God’s 10 commandments because those that do not will receive the judgements of God (2 Pet 3:5-14)

I see some people do not know what made up the OLD COVENANT laws and their purpose in both the OLD and NEW COVENANT and therefore think God's LAW has been abolished when it is only th SHADOW laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT and not God's ETERNAL LAW that gives us a KNOWLEDGE of what sin is when broken (Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; James 2:11; 1 John 3:4)

CAN'T HAVE A GOSPEL WITHOUT THE LAW

I believe the role of God's LAW is to give us a KNOLEDGE of good and evil; SIN and RIGHTOUESNESS. Nothing more and nothing less. They are our duty of LOVE to God and man. They show us that all we can do without Jesus is sin and that we are all sinners in need of a Saviour.

*If God's LAW is ABOLSHED then we no longer have any KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is.
*If we have no KNOWLEDGE of what sin is and that we are sinners we ahve no need of a Saviour
*If we have no need of a Saviour then we have no Salvation
*If we have no Salavtion then we are still in our sins and the scriputure is fulfilled...

ROMANS 2:12-13 [12], For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; [13], For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

My thoughts is that we are NOT SAVED by God's 10 Commandments. Their purpose is to give us a KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is and to lead us to the Cross so that we might be justified by faith (Galatains 3:23-24). The ROLE of God's LAW is to give us a KNOWLEDGE of good and evil; SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS (Romans 3:20; Psalms 119:172; James 2:11 Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4). In the NEW COVENANT God's LAW is to be written on our hearts as we are born again to LOVE and LOVE is the fulfilling of God's LAW in those who BELIEVE God's WORD (Hebrews 8:10-12; Romans 13:8-10; Matthew 22:36-40; 1 John 3:3-10; John 3:3)

OPEN FOR FRIENDLY CHRISTIAN DISCUSSION.

What are your thoughts? ARE God's 10 Commandments ABOLISHED like some think and no longer the standard for Christian living?

May God bless you as we seek him through his WORD

None of the apostles confirmed the Ten Commandments, rather the law of liberty and the commandments of Jesus. We've gone over this a dozen times and you still don't know the difference.

We are under the law of the Spirit of life in Christ which freed me from the Ten Commandments as they are the law of sin and death. They are also the covenant of Ishmael which was cast out.

LoveGodsWord · Aug 23, 2018

1stcenturylady said:
None of the apostles confirmed the Ten Commandments, rather the law of liberty and the commandments of Jesus. We've gone over this a dozen times and you still don't know the difference.

We are under the law of the Spirit of life in Christ which freed me from the Ten Commandments as they are the law of sin and death. They are also the covenant of Ishmael which was cast out.

Hello 1stcenturylady, Nice to see you again.

hmm you have to disagree with a lot of scripture provided in the OP above with Jesus and the Apostles confirming God's 10 Commandments to believe that would't you? Gods LAW is the LAW of liberty because walking in God's Spirit we do not fulfill the lusts of the flesh (Galatians 5:16)

Only God's WORD is true and it should be our guide for what we believe and follow.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts

May God bless you as you seek him through his Word :wave:

Lost4words · Aug 23, 2018

Jesus didnt come to abolish the law. The 10 commandments still stand.

1stcenturylady · Aug 23, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
Hello 1stcenturylady, hmm you have to disagree with a lot of scripture provided in the OP above to believe that would't you? Gods LAW is the LAW of liberty because walking in God's Spirit we do not fulfill the lusts of the flesh (Galatians 5:16)

James compares the Ten Commandment to the law of liberty, and John tells us exactly what commandments he is talking about that have to do with believing in Jesus and loving your neighbor. The 10 C doesn't include either.

LoveGodsWord · Aug 23, 2018

Lost4words said:
Jesus didnt come to abolish the law. The 10 commandments still stand.

Hi Lost4words, absolutely, for me God's WORD is very clear on this subject. We are not saved by them but it is God's LAW that leads us to the Christ so that we might be justified by faith. Thanks for sharing your thoughts Lost4words.

May God bless you as you seek him through his Word :wave:

LoveGodsWord · Aug 23, 2018

1stcenturylady said:
James compares the Ten Commandment to the law of liberty, and John tells us exactly what commandments he is talking about that have to do with believing in Jesus and loving your neighbor. The 10 C doesn't include either.

God's LAW is the law of liberty because it is the standard of RIGHTEOUSNESS and if obeyed by faith and walking in God's Spirit is freedom from Sin.

PSALMS 119:172 My tongue shall speak of your word: for all your commandments are righteousness.

Jesus says..

Joh 8:34; 36 Jesus answered them, Truly, truly, I say to you, Whoever commits sin is the servant of sin. [36] 36, If the Son therefore shall make you free, you shall be free indeed.

JAMES 2:8-12
[8], If you fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, You shall love your neighbor as yourself, you do well:
[9], But if you have respect to persons, you commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
[10], For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
[11], For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if you commit no adultery, yet if you kill, you are become a transgressor of the law.
[12], So speak you, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

God's two great commandments of LOVE by faith of a NEW HEART is the NEW COVENANANT promise. LOVE is the fulfilling of God's LAW in those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD and walk in his Spirit (Hebrews 8:10-12; Romans 13:8-10; Galatians 5:16; Matthew 22:36-40)

Thanks for sharing your thoughts 1stcenturylady.

May God help you as you seek him through his Word. :wave:

LoveGodsWord · Aug 23, 2018

1stcenturylady said:
John tells us exactly what commandments he is talking about that have to do with believing in Jesus and loving your neighbor. The 10 C doesn't include either.

Actually James tells us what commandments he is talking about in the same verses

JAMES 2:8-12
[8], If you fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, You shall love your neighbor as yourself, you do well:
[9], But if you have respect to persons, you commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
[10], For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
[11], For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if you commit no adultery, yet if you kill, you are become a transgressor of the law.
[12], So speak you, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

James is giving example here of the 10 commandments from Exodus 20

Hope this helps

Phil 1:21 · Aug 23, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
Hi all,

Some people are going around teaching that God's 10 Commandments are ABOLISHED and no longer a standard for Christian living. Yet the NEW TESTAMENT alone does not teach this at all.

1 JOHN 2:1-4
[1], MY LITTLE CHILDREN, THESE THINGS, I WRITE UNTO YOU THE YOU SIN NOT. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
[2], And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
[3], And HEREBY WE KNOW THAT WE KNOW HIM, IF WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS.
[4], HE THAT SAYS, I KNOW HIM AND DOES NOT KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS, IS A LIAR AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM.

WHAT DID JESUS AND THE APOSTLES TEACH ABOUT GOD’S LAW
(the scriptures below are no where near exhaustive from the NT alone)

Jesus taught the 10 commandments…..

1. Jesus kept God’s Law (10 commandments) and said the Law and the prophets would not pass away (Matt 5:17-18)
2. Jesus taught others to follow the 10 commandments (Mark 10:17-21)
3. Jesus taught that Love is the fulfilling (doing) of God’s Law (10 commandments Matt 22:36-40)
4. If we break God’s Law by following man-made traditions we are not following God (Matt 15:3-9)
5. Jesus says if we commit sin we are a servant of sin and he has come to free us from sin (John 8:32-36)
6. Jesus taught if you love God you will keep God’s Law and abide in His Love (John 14:15; 15:10
7. If anyone is breaking any of God’s commandments and teaching others to do so will be called least in the kingdom of heaven <least = lost> (Matt 5:19)
8. No one can obey God’s Law producing the fruit of obedience of ourselves and unless we abide in Jesus we can do nothing (John 15:4-10)

Paul affirms the Ten Commandments……

1. Paul teaches God's people keep the Sabbath Hebrews 4.
2. Paul tells gentiles that "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of GOD" 1 Cor 7:19
3. Paul tells gentiles "it is not the HEARERS of the Law that are just before God but the DOERS of the Law will be justified... on the day when according to my GOSPEL God will judge all mankind" Rom 2:13-16
4. Paul asks that gentiles consider the doctrine of LAW "Do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we establish the Law of God" Rom 3:31
5. Paul tells ALL Christians that it is only the lost who will "not subject themselves to the Law of God neither indeed CAN they" Rom 8:6-8
6 Paul reaches all Christians under the NEW Covenant that God's LAW as known in Jer 31:31-33 is "written on the heart and mind" Heb 8:7-11
7. Paul tells all Christians that the OT text is to be used for Doctrine 2Tim 3:16
AND He never claims that "if I did not write it -- it is not scripture for us today" -- as one or two have imagined for us.
8. Paul tells all Christians that the 5th commandment is the "FIRST commandment with a promise" Eph 6:1-2 and is binding on all Christians.
9. God's Law (10 commandments) are holy, just and good (Rom 7:12)
10. God's Law gives us a knowledge of what sin is (Rom 3:20; 7:7)
11. The penalty of breaking God's Law without Jesus is death (Rom 6:23)
12. If we break God's Law we dishonor God (Rom 2:23)
13. If we sin we are "under the Law" and guilty before God (Rom 3:19)
14. We are saved by faith but our faith establishes the Law in us (Rom 3:31)
15. If we are saved by grace we should not break God's Law (Rom 6:1-7)
16. We should not break God's Law if we are under grace (Rom 6:15)
17. We are to serve the Law of God through the mind because that is where sin starts (Rom 6:17; 7:25; 8:4; 12:2)
18. It is God's Law that brings us to Jesus (Gal 3:24)
19. God's salvation frees us from sin so we can be obedient to God's Law and live a life of holiness (Rom 6:22)
20. We will be judged by God's Law and only those that are obedient will be justified because of their faith (Rom 2:4-13)
21. God's Law can only be obeyed through love and a changed heart which comes by faith in God's Word (Rom 2:21-29; 13:9-10; Heb 8:9-10)
22. If we break God's Law and are in unrepentant sin we will be lost and will received God's judgements (Heb 10:26-27)

John affirms the 10 commandments……

1. John says it is only by keeping God’s 10 commandments that we know that we know God (1 John 2:3)
2. If someone says that they know God and do not keep God’s 10 commandments they are lying and not telling the truth (1 John 2:4)
3. We should purify ourselves as Jesus is pure (1 John 3:3)
4. Sin is the breaking of God’s 10 commandments (1 John 3:4)
5. Whoever is abiding in Christ does not commit sin (1 John 3:6; John 15:4-10)
6. If you are in unrepentant sin you have not seen Jesus or know him (1 John 3:6)
7. John warns us that only those that are obedience to God’s Law are his true followers (1 John 3:7)
8. If someone is committing unrepentant sin they are following the devil and not God (1 John 3:7)
9. If you are born of God and abiding in him you will not commit sin (1 John 3:9; 1 John 3:6; John 15:4-10
10. It is the keeping of God’s commandments that is the difference between those that are following God and those that are not following God (1 John 3:10; 1 John 5:3)
11. It is only by Love through faith that we can keep God’s commandments (1 John 5:3-4)
12. God’s true believers in the end days will keep all of God’s commandments through faith in Jesus (Rev 14:12; 22:14)

James also affirms the 10 commandments…….

1. James says God’s Law (10 commandments) are a Royal Law (James 2:8)
2. If we break one of God’s commandments we a guilty before God as sinners breaking all of God’s Law and gave some examples of breaking God’s Law (James 2:9-11)
3. James says God’s Law is a law of liberty and freedom (James 2:12)
4. The 10 commandments (God’s Law) are the standard in the judgment (James 2:12)
5. If our faith does not have the fruit of obedience to God’s Law it is dead and not true faith (James 2:16-26)

Peter affirms the 10 commandments……..

1. Sanctification is to obedience to God’s Law (1 Pet 1:2)
2. We can only be changed from sin to obedience to God’s Law by the power of God and it will be revealed in the last days (1 Pet 1:5)
3. We should give up our sins to be holy because Jesus is holy (1 Pet 1:13-16)
4. Jesus is your example who did no sin (1 Pet 2:21-22)
5. Cease from sin and do not live in the flesh (1 Pet 4:1-3)
6. Judgement will begin at the house of God and sinners (those breaking God’s 10 commandments) will not be saved.
7. God has given us his precious promises and as we believe them God will grant us his divine power to live a life of Godliness (obedience to God’s Law; 2 Pet 1:2-4)
8. The Un-Godly (disobedient to God’s Law) will be like Sodom and Gomorrah (2 Pet 2:6)
9. If any turn away from God’s Law and are in unrepentant sin breaking any of God’10 commandments they will be lost (2 Pet 2:20-22)
10 God is not willing that any should perish but that everyone should come to repentance and turn away from sin to follow God’s 10 commandments because those that do not will receive the judgements of God (2 Pet 3:5-14)

I see some people do not know what made up the OLD COVENANT laws and their purpose in both the OLD and NEW COVENANT and therefore think God's LAW has been abolished when it is only th SHADOW laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT and not God's ETERNAL LAW that gives us a KNOWLEDGE of what sin is when broken (Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; James 2:11; 1 John 3:4)

CAN'T HAVE A GOSPEL WITHOUT THE LAW

I believe the role of God's LAW is to give us a KNOLEDGE of good and evil; SIN and RIGHTOUESNESS. Nothing more and nothing less. They are our duty of LOVE to God and man. They show us that all we can do without Jesus is sin and that we are all sinners in need of a Saviour.

*If God's LAW is ABOLSHED then we no longer have any KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is.
*If we have no KNOWLEDGE of what sin is and that we are sinners we ahve no need of a Saviour
*If we have no need of a Saviour then we have no Salvation
*If we have no Salavtion then we are still in our sins and the scriputure is fulfilled...

ROMANS 2:12-13 [12], For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; [13], For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

My thoughts is that we are NOT SAVED by God's 10 Commandments. Their purpose is to give us a KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is and to lead us to the Cross so that we might be justified by faith (Galatains 3:23-24). The ROLE of God's LAW is to give us a KNOWLEDGE of good and evil; SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS (Romans 3:20; Psalms 119:172; James 2:11 Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4). In the NEW COVENANT God's LAW is to be written on our hearts as we are born again to LOVE and LOVE is the fulfilling of God's LAW in those who BELIEVE God's WORD (Hebrews 8:10-12; Romans 13:8-10; Matthew 22:36-40; 1 John 3:3-10; John 3:3)

OPEN FOR FRIENDLY CHRISTIAN DISCUSSION.

What are your thoughts? ARE God's 10 Commandments ABOLISHED like some think and no longer the standard for Christian living?

May God bless you as we seek him through his WORD

Short answer: Nope.

1stcenturylady · Aug 23, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
So speak you, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

He is comparing the above verses about the 10C with the law of liberty.

What does the law of liberty mean to you?

LoveGodsWord · Aug 23, 2018

Phil 1:21 said:
Short answer: Nope.

Hi Phil, great to meet you here. Nope what and why? Do you have any scriptures to share for your thoughts? Thanks for droping by.

May God bless you as you seek him through his Word. :wave:

Soyeong · Aug 23, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
Hi all,

Some people are going around teaching that God's 10 Commandments are ABOLISHED and no longer a standard for Christian living. Yet the NEW TESTAMENT alone does not teach this at all.

1 JOHN 2:1-4
[1], MY LITTLE CHILDREN, THESE THINGS, I WRITE UNTO YOU THE YOU SIN NOT. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
[2], And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
[3], And HEREBY WE KNOW THAT WE KNOW HIM, IF WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS.
[4], HE THAT SAYS, I KNOW HIM AND DOES NOT KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS, IS A LIAR AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM.

WHAT DID JESUS AND THE APOSTLES TEACH ABOUT GOD’S LAW
(the scriptures below are no where near exhaustive from the NT alone)

Jesus taught the 10 commandments…..

1. Jesus kept God’s Law (10 commandments) and said the Law and the prophets would not pass away (Matt 5:17-18)
2. Jesus taught others to follow the 10 commandments (Mark 10:17-21)
3. Jesus taught that Love is the fulfilling (doing) of God’s Law (10 commandments Matt 22:36-40)
4. If we break God’s Law by following man-made traditions we are not following God (Matt 15:3-9)
5. Jesus says if we commit sin we are a servant of sin and he has come to free us from sin (John 8:32-36)
6. Jesus taught if you love God you will keep God’s Law and abide in His Love (John 14:15; 15:10
7. If anyone is breaking any of God’s commandments and teaching others to do so will be called least in the kingdom of heaven <least = lost> (Matt 5:19)
8. No one can obey God’s Law producing the fruit of obedience of ourselves and unless we abide in Jesus we can do nothing (John 15:4-10)

Paul affirms the Ten Commandments……

1. Paul teaches God's people keep the Sabbath Hebrews 4.
2. Paul tells gentiles that "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of GOD" 1 Cor 7:19
3. Paul tells gentiles "it is not the HEARERS of the Law that are just before God but the DOERS of the Law will be justified... on the day when according to my GOSPEL God will judge all mankind" Rom 2:13-16
4. Paul asks that gentiles consider the doctrine of LAW "Do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we establish the Law of God" Rom 3:31
5. Paul tells ALL Christians that it is only the lost who will "not subject themselves to the Law of God neither indeed CAN they" Rom 8:6-8
6 Paul reaches all Christians under the NEW Covenant that God's LAW as known in Jer 31:31-33 is "written on the heart and mind" Heb 8:7-11
7. Paul tells all Christians that the OT text is to be used for Doctrine 2Tim 3:16
AND He never claims that "if I did not write it -- it is not scripture for us today" -- as one or two have imagined for us.
8. Paul tells all Christians that the 5th commandment is the "FIRST commandment with a promise" Eph 6:1-2 and is binding on all Christians.
9. God's Law (10 commandments) are holy, just and good (Rom 7:12)
10. God's Law gives us a knowledge of what sin is (Rom 3:20; 7:7)
11. The penalty of breaking God's Law without Jesus is death (Rom 6:23)
12. If we break God's Law we dishonor God (Rom 2:23)
13. If we sin we are "under the Law" and guilty before God (Rom 3:19)
14. We are saved by faith but our faith establishes the Law in us (Rom 3:31)
15. If we are saved by grace we should not break God's Law (Rom 6:1-7)
16. We should not break God's Law if we are under grace (Rom 6:15)
17. We are to serve the Law of God through the mind because that is where sin starts (Rom 6:17; 7:25; 8:4; 12:2)
18. It is God's Law that brings us to Jesus (Gal 3:24)
19. God's salvation frees us from sin so we can be obedient to God's Law and live a life of holiness (Rom 6:22)
20. We will be judged by God's Law and only those that are obedient will be justified because of their faith (Rom 2:4-13)
21. God's Law can only be obeyed through love and a changed heart which comes by faith in God's Word (Rom 2:21-29; 13:9-10; Heb 8:9-10)
22. If we break God's Law and are in unrepentant sin we will be lost and will received God's judgements (Heb 10:26-27)

John affirms the 10 commandments……

1. John says it is only by keeping God’s 10 commandments that we know that we know God (1 John 2:3)
2. If someone says that they know God and do not keep God’s 10 commandments they are lying and not telling the truth (1 John 2:4)
3. We should purify ourselves as Jesus is pure (1 John 3:3)
4. Sin is the breaking of God’s 10 commandments (1 John 3:4)
5. Whoever is abiding in Christ does not commit sin (1 John 3:6; John 15:4-10)
6. If you are in unrepentant sin you have not seen Jesus or know him (1 John 3:6)
7. John warns us that only those that are obedience to God’s Law are his true followers (1 John 3:7)
8. If someone is committing unrepentant sin they are following the devil and not God (1 John 3:7)
9. If you are born of God and abiding in him you will not commit sin (1 John 3:9; 1 John 3:6; John 15:4-10
10. It is the keeping of God’s commandments that is the difference between those that are following God and those that are not following God (1 John 3:10; 1 John 5:3)
11. It is only by Love through faith that we can keep God’s commandments (1 John 5:3-4)
12. God’s true believers in the end days will keep all of God’s commandments through faith in Jesus (Rev 14:12; 22:14)

James also affirms the 10 commandments…….

1. James says God’s Law (10 commandments) are a Royal Law (James 2:8)
2. If we break one of God’s commandments we a guilty before God as sinners breaking all of God’s Law and gave some examples of breaking God’s Law (James 2:9-11)
3. James says God’s Law is a law of liberty and freedom (James 2:12)
4. The 10 commandments (God’s Law) are the standard in the judgment (James 2:12)
5. If our faith does not have the fruit of obedience to God’s Law it is dead and not true faith (James 2:16-26)

Peter affirms the 10 commandments……..

1. Sanctification is to obedience to God’s Law (1 Pet 1:2)
2. We can only be changed from sin to obedience to God’s Law by the power of God and it will be revealed in the last days (1 Pet 1:5)
3. We should give up our sins to be holy because Jesus is holy (1 Pet 1:13-16)
4. Jesus is your example who did no sin (1 Pet 2:21-22)
5. Cease from sin and do not live in the flesh (1 Pet 4:1-3)
6. Judgement will begin at the house of God and sinners (those breaking God’s 10 commandments) will not be saved.
7. God has given us his precious promises and as we believe them God will grant us his divine power to live a life of Godliness (obedience to God’s Law; 2 Pet 1:2-4)
8. The Un-Godly (disobedient to God’s Law) will be like Sodom and Gomorrah (2 Pet 2:6)
9. If any turn away from God’s Law and are in unrepentant sin breaking any of God’10 commandments they will be lost (2 Pet 2:20-22)
10 God is not willing that any should perish but that everyone should come to repentance and turn away from sin to follow God’s 10 commandments because those that do not will receive the judgements of God (2 Pet 3:5-14)

I see some people do not know what made up the OLD COVENANT laws and their purpose in both the OLD and NEW COVENANT and therefore think God's LAW has been abolished when it is only th SHADOW laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT and not God's ETERNAL LAW that gives us a KNOWLEDGE of what sin is when broken (Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; James 2:11; 1 John 3:4)

CAN'T HAVE A GOSPEL WITHOUT THE LAW

I believe the role of God's LAW is to give us a KNOLEDGE of good and evil; SIN and RIGHTOUESNESS. Nothing more and nothing less. They are our duty of LOVE to God and man. They show us that all we can do without Jesus is sin and that we are all sinners in need of a Saviour.

*If God's LAW is ABOLSHED then we no longer have any KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is.
*If we have no KNOWLEDGE of what sin is and that we are sinners we ahve no need of a Saviour
*If we have no need of a Saviour then we have no Salvation
*If we have no Salavtion then we are still in our sins and the scriputure is fulfilled...

ROMANS 2:12-13 [12], For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; [13], For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

My thoughts is that we are NOT SAVED by God's 10 Commandments. Their purpose is to give us a KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is and to lead us to the Cross so that we might be justified by faith (Galatains 3:23-24). The ROLE of God's LAW is to give us a KNOWLEDGE of good and evil; SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS (Romans 3:20; Psalms 119:172; James 2:11 Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4). In the NEW COVENANT God's LAW is to be written on our hearts as we are born again to LOVE and LOVE is the fulfilling of God's LAW in those who BELIEVE God's WORD (Hebrews 8:10-12; Romans 13:8-10; Matthew 22:36-40; 1 John 3:3-10; John 3:3)

OPEN FOR FRIENDLY CHRISTIAN DISCUSSION.

What are your thoughts? ARE God's 10 Commandments ABOLISHED like some think and no longer the standard for Christian living?

May God bless you as we seek him through his WORD

All of God's righteous laws are eternal (Psalms 119:160), so none of them have been abolished. Sin is disobedience to any of God's commands, not just 10 of them. In 1 John 3:4, it doesn't specify that it is speaking only about ten of God's laws.

1stcenturylady · Aug 23, 2018

Soyeong said:
All of God's righteous laws are eternal (Psalms 119:160), so none of them have been abolished. Sin is disobedience to any of God's commands, not just 10 of them. In 1 John 3:4, it doesn't specify that it is speaking only about ten of God's laws.

Even the laws concerning sacrifice? What about circumcision? There are laws that have been abolished, because of the fact they have been fulfilled in Christ. And that includes the Sabbath day and the feast days. God also made clean what once was a law against.

St_Worm2 · Aug 23, 2018

The Threefold Use of the Law

Its first function is to be a mirror reflecting to us both the perfect righteousness of God and our own sinfulness and shortcomings. As Augustine wrote, “the law bids us, as we try to fulfill its requirements, and become wearied in our weakness under it, to know how to ask the help of grace.” The law is meant to give knowledge of sin (Romans 3:20, 4:15, 5:13, 7:7-11), and by showing us our need of pardon and our danger of damnation to lead us in repentance and faith to Christ (Galatians 3:19-24).

A second function, the “civil use,” is to restrain evil. Though the law cannot change the heart, it can to some extent inhibit lawlessness by its threats of judgement, especially when backed by a civil code that administers punishment for proven offenses (Deuteronomy 13:6-11, 19:16-21; Romans 13:3-4). Thus it secures civil order, and serves to protect the righteous from the unjust.

Its third function is to guide the regenerate into the good works that God has planned for them (Ephesians 2:10). The law tells God’s children what will please their heavenly Father. It could be called their family code. Christ was speaking of this third use of the law when He said that those who become His disciples must be taught to do all that He had commanded (Matthew 28:20), and that obedience to His commands will prove the reality of one’s love for Him (John 14:15). The Christian is free from the law as a system of salvation (Romans 6:14, 7:4, 6; 1 Corinthians 9:20; Galatians 2:15-19, 3:25), but is “under the law of Christ” as a rule of life (1 Corinthians 9:21; Galatians 6:2). ~https://www.ligonier.org/blog/threefold-use-law/

LoveGodsWord · Aug 23, 2018

1stcenturylady said:
He is comparing the above verses about the 10C with the law of liberty.

What does the law of liberty mean to you?

God's LAW is the LAW of LIBERTY if we are walking in God's Spirit (Galatians 5:16). God's LAW is the law of sin and death if we knowingly continue to break it. God's LAW is the standard that gives us a KNOWLDGE of sin and rightouesness (Romans 3:20; Psalms 119:172)

LOVE is the fulfilling of God's LAW in those who bleive and follow God's WORD and the promise of the NEW COVENANT (Hebrews 8:10-12; Romans 13:8-10) and is why Jesus says IF YOU LOVE ME KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS (John 14:15)

Hope this helps.

Phil 1:21 · Aug 23, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
Hi Phil, great to meet you here. Nope what and why? Do you have any scriptures to share for your thoughts? Thanks for droping by.

May God bless you as you seek him through his Word.

Sorry. Nope, in response to the question in your title. I'm agreeing with your excellent post. Thanks for sharing it with us.

LoveGodsWord · Aug 23, 2018

St_Worm2 said:
The Threefold Use of the Law

Its first function is to be a mirror reflecting to us both the perfect righteousness of God and our own sinfulness and shortcomings. As Augustine wrote, “the law bids us, as we try to fulfill its requirements, and become wearied in our weakness under it, to know how to ask the help of grace.” The law is meant to give knowledge of sin (Romans 3:20, 4:15, 5:13, 7:7-11), and by showing us our need of pardon and our danger of damnation to lead us in repentance and faith to Christ (Galatians 3:19-24).

A second function, the “civil use,” is to restrain evil. Though the law cannot change the heart, it can to some extent inhibit lawlessness by its threats of judgement, especially when backed by a civil code that administers punishment for proven offenses (Deuteronomy 13:6-11, 19:16-21; Romans 13:3-4). Thus it secures civil order, and serves to protect the righteous from the unjust.

Its third function is to guide the regenerate into the good works that God has planned for them (Ephesians 2:10). The law tells God’s children what will please their heavenly Father. It could be called their family code. Christ was speaking of this third use of the law when He said that those who become His disciples must be taught to do all that He had commanded (Matthew 28:20), and that obedience to His commands will prove the reality of one’s love for Him (John 14:15). The Christian is free from the law as a system of salvation (Romans 6:14, 7:4, 6; 1 Corinthians 9:20; Galatians 2:15-19, 3:25), but is “under the law of Christ” as a rule of life (1 Corinthians 9:21; Galatians 6:2). ~https://www.ligonier.org/blog/threefold-use-law/

Hi brother St_Worm2, great to see you again,

Indeed and as Timothy says..

1 TIMOTHY 1:8 [8] But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully.

Thanks for sharing your thought brother. May God bless you as you seek him through his WORD :wave:

LoveGodsWord · Aug 23, 2018

Phil 1:21 said:
Sorry. Nope, in response to the question in your title. I'm agreeing with your excellent post. Thanks for sharing it with us.

Arr thanks Phil, for the clarificataion. I can't take any credit for it however they are God's WORD not mine

. Nice to see someone like you who also loves God's WORD. Jesus freely gives all those who ask him (John 14:26; 16:13: 7:17; 8:32; Hebrews 8:11)

May God bless you as you seek him through his WORD :wave:

LoveGodsWord · Aug 23, 2018

Soyeong said:
All of God's righteous laws are eternal (Psalms 119:160), so none of them have been abolished. Sin is disobedience to any of God's commands, not just 10 of them. In 1 John 3:4, it doesn't specify that it is speaking only about ten of God's laws.

Hi Soyeong, indeed as the scripture says.

JAMES 4:17 Therefore to him that knows to do good, and does it not, to him it is sin.

we are to live by EVERY WORD that proceeds out of the mouth of God.

MATTHEW 4:4 [4], But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God.

SIN is the transgression of God's LAW. John is agreeing with the writing of both JAMES and PAUL. Let's have a look at the scriptures...

WHAT IS SIN

JAMES 2:8-12
[8], If ye fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself, ye do well:
[9], But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
[10], For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
[11] For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, YOU ARE BECOME A TRANSGRESSOR OF GOD'S LAW

Yep, James is pretty clear if we brake ANY of God's Law (10 commandments) then we are a TRANSGRESSOR of God's LAW and commit SIN. James quotes two of the 10 Commandments that are summed up in the 2nd great commandments of LOVE to our neighbor in v11

links to...........

1 JOHN 3:4 [4] Whosoever commits SIN transgresses also the law: for SIN is the transgression of the law.

John is saying the same thing as James and states that if we TRANSGRESS God's LAW then we commit SIN because SIN IS THE TRANSGRESSION OF GOD'S LAW. So it is very clear that SIN is breaking ANY of God's LAW including the 10 commandments. We will look at the chapter context shortly which give the example in v15 of MURDER God's 6th Command of the 10.

Links to...........

ROMANS 7:7 [7], What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known SIN, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Well here we have Paul in agreement with James and John also telling us that SIN is breaking God's commandments and uses the 10th commandment as an example of breaking any of God's LAW (10 commandments) = SIN (Exodus 20:17)

Links to...

ROMANS 3:20 [20], Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: FOR BY THE LAW IS THE KNOWLEDGE OF SIN.

Context is v9; both Jew and Greek ALL under SIN, v10 None are righteous no not one, v11 None seek after God, v12 All have gone out of the way, there is none that does good [χρηστότης means MORAL excellence]. v13-18 Peace they have not known, destruction is in their way; they do not fear God. Now the CONTEXT is there is none that do GOOD which is in reference to χρηστότης MORAL excellence. Now let's look at v19-20

ROMANS 3:19-21
[19] Now we know that whatsoever things the law says, it says to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Context is no one does good χρηστότης MORAL excellence. God's LAW (10 Commandments) are the standard of RIGHTEOUSNESS.

PSALMS 119:172 [172], My tongue shall speak of your word: for all your commandments are righteousness [צדק; tsedeq means; the right natural, moral or legal; also (abstractly) equity or (figuratively) prosperity: - X even, (X that which is altogether) just (-ice), ([un-]) right (-eous) (cause, -ly, -ness)].

RIGHTEOUSNESS צדק; tsedeq in God's LAW is the standard of χρηστότης; MORAL excellence

The CONTEXT then is doing GOOD in reference to God's LAW (10 Commandments) v19 that is defines SIN and makes all the world guilty before GOD.

[20], Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

No one is justified by God's LAW which is the standard of RIGHTEOUSNESS [Moral excellence and Good] because if broken it gives us a KNOWLEDGE of sin. Already defined in James as breaking any of God's 10 Commandments.

[21], But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

God's LAW is the standard of RIGHTOEUSNESS (Psalms 119:172) MORAL EXCELLENCE standard of what is GOOD. The RIGHTOUENESS of GOD outside of the LAW being witnessed by the LAW and the prophets v22 which is by FAITH in Christ; WHY? v23 because ALL HAVE SINNED broken God's LAW. v24-28 we are only made righteous by faith in Christ without the deeds of the law. v31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

.....................

CONCLUSION: PAUL, JAMES and JOHN all agree together that if we break any of God's LAW (10 commandments) we commit SIN. All three use example of breaking the 10 Commandments as what defines sin.

.....................

God's WORD defines SIN as transgression of God's LAW (10 commandments) or breaking God's 10 Commandments as well as UNBELIEF in God's WORD.

Now that we have a biblical definition of what sin is (breaking God's Commandments) and UNBELIEF, let's look at the CHAPTER CONTEXT of 1 JOHN 3:4 and connect the scriptures.

1 JOHN 3:3-15
[3], And every man that hath this hope in him purifies himself, even as he is pure.
4, Whosoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for SIN IS THE TRANSGRESSION OF GOD'S LAW.
[5], And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
[6], Whosoever abides in him SIN <breaks God's LAW> not: whosoever SIN<breaks God's LAW> hath not seen him, neither known him.
[7], Little children, let no man deceive you: he that does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous <Psalms 119:172 All your commandments = RIGHTEOUSNESS>.
[8], He that commits SIN <breaks God's LAW> is of the devil; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
[9], Whosoever is born of God DOES NOT commit SIN<breaks God's LAW>; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot SIN<breaks God's LAW>, because he is born of God.
[10], In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever does not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother.
[11], For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.
[12], Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.
[13], Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.
[14], We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loves not his brother abides in death.
[15], Whosoever hates his brother is a MURDERER: and ye know that no MURDERER hath eternal life abiding in him. [sin starts in the heart John gives the example here of breaking God's LAW 7th commandment]

Some key points..........

v4. SIN = Breaking God's Commandments
v6. Those who knowingly break God's commandments do not know God
v7. Don't be DECEIVED only those who DO NOT break God's commandments are is RIGHTEOUS as HE IS RIGHTEOUS
v8. If you are living in a life of KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN you are following the DEVIL and not GOD (Acts 17:30-31; Heb 10:26:27)
v9. If you are BORN OF GOD you will NOT practice SIN
v10. LOVE AND OBEDIENCE to GOD'S LAW SHOW WHO ARE GOD'S PEOPLE and DISOBEDIENCE TO GOD'S LAW SHOW THE CHILDREN OF THE DEVIL
v15. Example of the 7th commandment (Exodus 20:13) being broken. Those who brake God's LAW and SIN DO NOT have ETERNAL LIFE

Links to what Jesus says in Matthew..............

Matthew 7:21-23
[21], Not everyone that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; BUT HE THE DOES THE WILL OF MY FATHER IN HEAVEN <FAITH THAT WORKS BY Love and OBEDIENCE>
[22], Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
[23], And then will I profess unto them, I NEVER KNEW YOU <1 John 3:6 = has not seen him or known him because they break God's LAW and practice SIN>: DEPART FROM ME YOU WHO WORK INIQUITY (SIN)

................

CONCLUSION: The CHAPTER and SCRIPTURE CONTEXT is those who are OBEDIENT to GOD'S Commandments and those who are DISOBEDIENT to God's COMMANDMENTS mentioning MURDER in v15 which is the 6th Commandment of the 10 Commandments (Exodus 20:13). PAUL, JAMES and JOHN all agree together that SIN is breaking ANY of God's 10 Commandments.
................

SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)
Those who CONTINUE to practice UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN (Hebrews 10:26-27).

Thanks for your thoughts Soyeong, nice to see you and may God bless you as you seek him through his WORDS :wave:

1stcenturylady · Aug 23, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
God's LAW is the LAW of LIBERTY if we are walking in God's Spirit (Galatians 5:16). God's LAW is the law of sin and death if we knowingly continue to break it. God's LAW is the standard that gives us a KNOWLDGE of sin and rightouesness (Romans 3:20; Psalms 119:172)

LOVE is the fulfilling of God's LAW in those who bleive and follow God's WORD and the promise of the NEW COVENANT (Hebrews 8:10-12; Romans 13:8-10) and is why Jesus says IF YOU LOVE ME KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS (John 14:15)

Hope this helps.

The law showed me my sin. The Spirit freed me from my sin, by giving me a new nature that doesn't want to sin. Huge difference.

You are teaching that we still have the old nature so need the law.

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