Where is the Evidence of a Gap in the 70 weeks of Dan 9?

A71 said:

Why do you think the Judaizers have won?
Generally I think the church has won, although
In the last hundred years the judaizers have done better.

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Thousands of Jews and others might have been saved if they understood "the suffering servant" of Isaiah chapter 53, and the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and the timeline of Daniel chapter 9.

These three passages from the Hebrew scriptures prove that the baby in a manger is the Jewish Messiah. Why have I never seen this simple three-part message on Christian television?

The Jewish man in the video below found Jeremiah 31:31-34 in his Hebrew scriptures and accepted Christ as his Messiah.


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Yes but you said that Judaism has won over Christianity for 2000 years, or words to that effect. How?

They would only have come out of the Law if God brought them which he did not. Forget the past and press forward.

BABerean2 said:

Thousands of Jews and others might have been saved if they understood "the suffering servant" of Isaiah chapter 53, and the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and the timeline of Daniel chapter 9.

These three passages from the Hebrew scriptures prove that the baby in a manger is the Jewish Messiah.

The Jewish man in the video below found Jeremiah 31:31-34 in his Hebrew scriptures and accepted Christ as his Messiah.

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Revealing Times said:

Hi Douggg, no sir, I meant linear because its still three prophetic uttering's so it could never be uninterrupted per se, whereas linear describes a progressing from one stage to another in a single series of steps; sequential, thus a linear narrative so to speak.

Basically its the same thing, its a STRAIGHT LINE.................. Instead of a ..... ..... ..... Line like that. But its connected by different events.

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uninterrupted is some (erroneously) believe that there are no gaps.

A71 said:

Why do you think the Judaizers have won?
Generally I think the church has won, although
In the last hundred years the judaizers have done better.

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who said they won? They have not won anything, they are still being punished because of unbelief

DavidPT said:

Per that translation, as to verse 27, it makes it clear that the 'he' who causeth the sacrifice and present to cease, is the same one who by the wing of abominations is making desolate. If that translation doesn't prove a gap, what does it prove? Does it prove the he meant in that verse is meaning Christ? I don't see how since the part about by the wing of abominations he is making desolate, couldn't possibly fit Christ.

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Would you say verse 26 is about the death of Christ and destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in 70ad followed by the 'gap' that leads to verse 27 and the final 70th week?

Daniel 9:26-27
And after the sixty and two weeks, cut off is Messiah, and the city and the holy place are not his, the Leader who hath come doth destroy the people; and its end [is] with a flood, and till the end [is] war, determined [are] desolations.

Insert 2000+ year Gap here, then 70th week?

And he hath strengthened a covenant with many -- one week, and [in] the midst of the week he causeth sacrifice and present to cease, and by the wing of abominations he is making desolate, even till the consummation, and that which is determined is poured on the desolate one.'

Two problems seem to arise from this (there are problems with Just about every interpretation I have read, as this is a difficult prophecy):

1. Inserting a 'gap' means its not really a 70 'sevens' prophecy, but much longer. This also increases the risk of wrong interpretations.
2. Everything written about Jesus in the law, psalms, prophets has been fulfilled. The destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in 70 ad was the time of punishment fulfilling all that was written. Therefore, Daniel's 70 weeks must have all been fulfilled by 70ad.

a.) Jesus states 'everything' about him written in the law, psalms, and prophets was fulfilled upon his death burial:
Luke 24:44 He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.”

b.) The destruction of jerusalem and the temple is the time of punishment in fulfillment of ALL that has been written:
Luke 21:22 For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written.

Revealing Times said:

When you get to Heaven Angels are going to Scratch their heads and say, what were you thinking Douggg, I have Revelation's timing down pat after not understanding it for years, but I can see why its confusing for many, so its no bigeeee brother.

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I don't think you have thought through, RT. All of the suffering, your loved ones dying, all the little babies and children dying, the suffering with illness in this world, the pain, wars, crime, everything horrible that has happened to mankind - none of that would have taken place if it were not for Satan choosing iniquity, then wanting to destroy God's creation, and have God be his servant.

This is the most telling verse in bible.

Ezekiel 28:16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

A71 said:

Yes but you said that Judaism has won over Christianity for 2000 years, or words to that effect. How?

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That is not what I said.
I said the Christian Judaisers have confused the two covenants.

I explained in my last post that many have been lost due to this confusion, because it buries the truth found in Luke 24:25-27.

The whole Bible is a book about Jesus Christ.

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Douggg said:

I don't think you have thought through, RT. All of the suffering, your loved ones dying, all the little babies and children dying, the suffering with illness in this world, the pain, wars, crime, everything horrible that has happened to mankind - none of that would have taken place if it were not for Satan choosing iniquity, then wanting to destroy God's creation, and have God be his servant.

This is the most telling verse in bible.

Ezekiel 28:16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

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While I myself tend to agree with you to a degree, let's not forget, that in Genesis 3, God didn't hold just satan accountable, He held all 3 of them accountable. satan of course received the harshest punishment. What satan did was apparently unforgivable. Man can still be forgiven of things, regardless.

claninja said:

Would you say verse 26 is about the death of Christ and destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in 70ad followed by the 'gap' that leads to verse 27 and the final 70th week?

Daniel 9:26-27
And after the sixty and two weeks, cut off is Messiah, and the city and the holy place are not his, the Leader who hath come doth destroy the people; and its end [is] with a flood, and till the end [is] war, determined [are] desolations.

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Verse 26 is most def about the death of Christ. It is possible that it is also about the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in 70 AD, though I tend to think not. That part I tend to think is fulfilled during the 70th week, but not in a literal sense where it might involve a literal city and literal temple. Take 2 Thessalonians 2:4 for instance. That involves a temple, yet I don't interpret that temple in the literal sense though. If it doesn't have to be literal in that passage, maybe it doesn't have to be literal in Daniel 9:26 either. I haven't fully made up my mind as to what to make of it in verse 26 then, though currently I favor a non literal temple more than I favor a literal one. But if a literal city and temple are actually what is meant in verse 26 though, and that I was convinced it was, I would then likely conclude it is meaning the events of 70 AD in that case.

claninja said:

Insert 2000+ year Gap here, then 70th week?

And he hath strengthened a covenant with many -- one week, and [in] the midst of the week he causeth sacrifice and present to cease, and by the wing of abominations he is making desolate, even till the consummation, and that which is determined is poured on the desolate one.'

Two problems seem to arise from this (there are problems with Just about every interpretation I have read, as this is a difficult prophechy):

1. Inserting a 'gap' means its not really a 70 'sevens' prophecy, but much longer. This also increases the risk of wrong interpretations.
2. Everything written about Jesus in the law, psalms, prophets has been fulfilled. The destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in 70 ad was the time of punishment fulfilling all that was written. Therefore, Daniel's 70 weeks must have all been fulfilled by 70ad.

a.) Jesus states 'everything' about him written in the law, psalms, and prophets was fulfilled upon his death burial:
Luke 24:44 He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.”

b.) The destruction of jerusalem and the temple is the time of punishment in fulfillment of ALL that has been written:
Luke 21:22 For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written.

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Allow me to resubmit an argument I used earlier in this thread then. Perhaps you can explain the logic in Jerusalem being destroyed after the 70 weeks are finished, rather than Jerusalem being destroyed, then sometime after that the transgression against it is finished, where it then results in Zechariah 14:11.

DavidPT said:

Zechariah 14:11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.


IMO, since like you pointed out, the prophecies also involve Jerusalem, it is a contradiction if the 70 weeks are already fulfilled before Zechariah 14:11 is even true. Was Zechariah 14:11 already true around the time of 70 AD? Is Zechariah 14:11 already true in the days we are currently living in? Unless one has lost all touch with reality, the answer would be have to be no to both questions.


and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression. Does that sound like something that would lead to Zechariah 14:11 once it is fulfilled? Or does that sound like something that would lead to the events of 70 AD once it has been fulfilled?

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you said:

"During most of the history of the Church the Judaisers have won the day."

I'm curious why you see it like that.

BABerean2 said:

That is not what I said.
I said the Christian Judaisers have confused the two covenants.

I explained in my last post that many have been lost due to this confusion, because it buries the truth found in Luke 24:25-27.

The whole Bible is a book about Jesus Christ.

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BABerean2 said:

That is not what I said.
I said the Christian Judaisers have confused the two covenants.

I explained in my last post that many have been lost due to this confusion, because it buries the truth found in Luke 24:25-27.

The whole Bible is a book about Jesus Christ.

.

Click to expand...

claninja said:

Two problems seem to arise from this (there are problems with Just about every interpretation I have read, as this is a difficult prophecy):

1. Inserting a 'gap' means its not really a 70 'sevens' prophecy, but much longer. This also increases the risk of wrong interpretations.
2. Everything written about Jesus in the law, psalms, prophets has been fulfilled. The destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in 70 ad was the time of punishment fulfilling all that was written. Therefore, Daniel's 70 weeks must have all been fulfilled by 70ad.

a.) Jesus states 'everything' about him written in the law, psalms, and prophets was fulfilled upon his death burial:
Luke 24:44 He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.”

b.) The destruction of jerusalem and the temple is the time of punishment in fulfillment of ALL that has been written:
Luke 21:22 For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written.

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If during the gap the weeks are put on hold, I don't get your logic as to how that somehow means it's not really a 70 x 7 prophecy? Why wouldn't it still be? What does 7 weeks + 62 weeks + 1 week add up to if not 70 weeks, regardless when each set of weeks are fulfilled?

If you can debunk the following analogy I have used for an argument in the past, I might reconsider things then.

A man commits a crime. He then goes before a judge to answer for the crime. He is sentenced to Community service of 60 hours. He has to do 6 hours a day for 5 days the first week, then 6 hours a day for 5 days the following week, which means, though there are 24 hours in the day, the other 18 hours aren't being counted each day, nor are the Saturday and Sunday when he doesn't have to do Community service. How can all of that not involve gaps? And in spite of those gaps, how does it not still total 60 hours Community service, regardless?

The point about the covenants is that the Jews are still under the Moab Covenant, amongst other covenants, and the Moab covenant invokes the Law, so although the Sinai Covenant is null and void, as of AD73, they still remain under the Law.

When Paul was ministering, which was prior to Daniel's 70th week, the Sinai covenant was still in force, and it was a huge problem, because if people got sucked back into the vortex of the Sinai Covenant, they would end up being burned like wood in the destruction of Jerusalem.

Post AD73 God has not abandoned the Jews, they are still in covenant, albeit a covenant of death, the Moab covenant.

The Church has a ministry to the Jews, to rescue them from bondage to the law. That ministry is ongoing for 2000 years.

When closet Jews like (choose your favourite zionist Christian demagogue) bang on about dual covenants, they are just trying to fleece the flock, and usher in the anti-Christ. Their idea of a dual covenant is a free pass for Jews. This is baloney. (Choose your own terms here).

The Jews are under a curse, embodied in the Moab covenant, the curse of death.

However, God the Father, Yahweh, in his infinite love and mercy, has us all under the Abrahamic Covenant, and eventually the deluded cursed Jews, yes, many of them too, will come to understand that Jesus Christ of Nazareth,
0-30AD, is Lord and King Of all mankind and Israel.

DavidPT said:

Your interpretation makes no sense then. You're not paying close enough attention to the text in this case. Or maybe I'm not, yet I'm thinking it is you who that is not.

Daniel 8:9-14 and the interpretation of those particular verses are found in Daniel 8:23-26. How then can you conclude the time of the end is yet to happen, where that's when Daniel 8:9-14 happens, but then contradict that by claiming that era of time belongs to A4E instead?

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Daniel 8:23-26 refer to the Anti-Christ, yet to come.
As Daniel says in verse 26; it points to a time far ahead.

Original Happy Camper said:

Sure it does but you have to go to history to find it the year.
Luke 3:1
Now in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, Pontius Pilate being governor of Judaea, and Herod being tetrarch of Galilee, and his brother Philip tetrarch of Ituraea and of the region of Trachonitis, and Lysanias the tetrarch of Abilene,
7 Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him,
21 Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened,

22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.

23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli,

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Are you saying that Jesus started his preaching at the same time that John started to baptize?

DavidPT said:

Verse 26 is most def about the death of Christ.

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I agree.

So you believe that Christ was not cut off during any of the prophetic 'sevens' but in one of the gaps, correct?

Daniel 9:26 And after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off and shall have nothing

DavidPT said:

It is possible that it is also about the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in 70 AD, though I tend to think not.

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If this is not the literal city and temple, then what is it about? If it is about the spiritual city and temple, I would have to disagree because I don't believe God's spiritual city and temple can be destroyed or desolated.

DavidPT said:

That part I tend to think is fulfilled during the 70th week, but not in a literal sense where it might involve a literal city and literal temple.

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Do you believe that Daniel 9:26b is the same as Daniel 9:27b?
Daniel 9:26 And the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. Itsf end shall come with a flood, and to the end there shall be war. Desolations are decreed.
Daniel 9:27 And on the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolate one

DavidPT said:

Take 2 Thessalonians 2:4 for instance. That involves a temple, yet I don't interpret that temple in the literal sense though. If it doesn't have to be literal in that passage, maybe it doesn't have to be literal in Daniel 9:26 either.

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Considering the context of 2 thessalonians 2 is not the body of Christ, but man of lawless being destroyed at Christ's coming, I would say it is about the physical temple. Especially considering the abomination of desolation, jerusalem destruction, and temple destruction occur just before coming of Christ in the olivet discourse. Again, I don't believe God's spiritual city and temple can ever be destroyed, but his physical city and temple under the old covenant were.

DavidPT said:

Allow me to resubmit an argument I used earlier in this thread then. Perhaps you can explain the logic in Jerusalem being destroyed after the 70 weeks are finished, rather than Jerusalem being destroyed, then sometime after that the transgression against it is finished, where it then results in Zechariah 14:11.

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I guess it depends if the Jerusalem in Zechariah 14:11 is in the new heavens/earth or old heavens/earth. If this Jerusalem is in the old heavens/earth, well there is a problem because how can it never be destroyed again if the old heavens and earth will pass away. But if this Jerusalem is in the new heavens and earth, then this prophecy can make sense, as the new Jerusalem is eternal.
Zechariah 14:11 And it shall be inhabited, for there shall never again be a decree of utter destruction.f Jerusalem shall dwell in security.

DavidPT said:

A man commits a crime. He then goes before a judge to answer for the crime. He is sentenced to Community service of 60 hours. He has to do 6 hours a day for 5 days the first week, then 6 hours a day for 5 days the following week, which means, though there are 24 hours in the day, the other 18 hours aren't being counted each day, nor are the Saturday and Sunday when he doesn't have to do Community service. How can all of that not involve gaps? And in spite of those gaps, how does it not still total 60 hours Community service, regardless?

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This analogy doesn't really work because it's comparisons aren't really the same.

This man has 2 weeks to complete 60 hours. The first week he does 30 hours, the second week he does 30 hours. Typically community services hours have to be completed within a certain time frame. and the time frame must be consecutive. Say it is january 1 and the judge gives the man 2 weeks to complete 60 hours of community services, your saying that the criminal can complete the 30 hours in 1 week (january 1-7), then can complete the other 30 hours in march ( march 1-7) or August (august 1-7)....That's not how it works, the 60 hours have to completed in 2 consecutive weeks, january 1-14.

The days, nights, and weekends as gaps comparison doesn't really work. because the Jews didn't work 24 hours a day 7 days a week to rebuild the city through troubled times. They had to sleep and had to follow the sabbath.

DavidPT said:

If during the gap the weeks are put on hold, I don't get your logic as to how that somehow means it's not really a 70 x 7 prophecy? Why wouldn't it still be? What does 7 weeks + 62 weeks + 1 week add up to if not 70 weeks, regardless when each set of weeks are fulfilled?

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7 weeks + 62 weeks + 104,000 weeks (2000 years) + 1 week does not add up to 70 weeks.

Let's say you want me to build you a house. You ask me how long it will take to build your house. I tell you 1 year. I then proceed to work on your house for only 1 month every year, taking me 12 years to finish building your house. So how long did it take me to build your house?

A71 said:

I'm curious why you see it like that.

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The answer is found below.

The New Covenant: Bob George

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I dont have the bandwidth.. anyhow it looks boring and a bit irrelevant.
I'll take your word for it, the Church has been judaized

A71 said:

I dont have the bandwidth.. anyhow it looks a bit irrelevant.

Kind of worked that one out about three centuries ago, but thanks for trying

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If you think an understanding of the New Covenant is "irrelevant", you will never really understand your Bible, or the words of Christ found in Luke 24:25-27.
The whole Bible is a book about Him.


Mat_26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Mar_14:24 And He said to them, "This is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many.

Luk_22:20 Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.

1Co_11:25 In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me."

2Co_3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Heb_8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH—

Heb_8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Heb_9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

Heb_12:24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.

NKJV