Convince me

DeaconDean said:

I was reading a sermon by John Wesley, and ran across this:

"Exactly as we are justified by faith, so are we sanctified by faith. Faith is the condition, and the only condition, of sanctification, exactly as it is of justification. It is the condition: none is sanctified but he that believes; with out faith no man is sanctified. And it is the only condition: this alone is sufficient for sanctification. Every one that believes is sanctified, whatever else he has or has not. In other words, no man is sanctified till he believes: every man when he believes is sanctified."

Source

God Bless

Till all are one.

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From the Confession of Dositheus, Synod of Jerusalem, 1672

"We believe that no one can be saved without faith. By faith we mean the right notion that is in us concerning God and divine things, which, working by love, that is to say, by [keeping] the Divine commandments, justifies us with Christ; and without this [faith] it is impossible to please God."

DeaconDean said:

I was reading a sermon by John Wesley, and ran across this:

"Exactly as we are justified by faith, so are we sanctified by faith. Faith is the condition, and the only condition, of sanctification, exactly as it is of justification. It is the condition: none is sanctified but he that believes; with out faith no man is sanctified. And it is the only condition: this alone is sufficient for sanctification. Every one that believes is sanctified, whatever else he has or has not. In other words, no man is sanctified till he believes: every man when he believes is sanctified."

Source

God Bless

Till all are one.

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If as Wesley says, faith is a condition for salvation and sanctification, then only the self-righteous are saved and sanctified. Grace = no conditions = faith and sanctification are the results of salvation, not the means.

One wonders how such a straight forward statement could be misconstrued. Your justified, sanctified and equipped for service by grace. What's translated 'gifts' in 1 Cor. 12 is the normals Greek word for grace, chaismos. Sanctification is a process not complete until the resurrection, or translation depending on whether your alive at the time. Its always by grace, that much is clear.

mark kennedy said:

One wonders how such a straight forward statement could be misconstrued. Your justified, sanctified and equipped for service by grace. What's translated 'gifts' in 1 Cor. 12 is the normals Greek word for grace, chaismos. Sanctification is a process not complete until the resurrection, or translation depending on whether your alive at the time. Its always by grace, that much is clear.

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Again, from the confession of Dositheus:

And we understand the use of free-will thus, that the Divine and illuminating grace, and which we call preventing [or, prevenient] grace, being, as a light to those in darkness, by the Divine goodness imparted to all, to those that are willing to obey this — for it is of use only to the willing, not to the unwilling — and co-operate with it, in what it requires as necessary to salvation, there is consequently granted particular grace. This grace co-operates with us, and enables us, and makes us to persevere in the love of God, that is to say, in performing those good things that God would have us to do, and which His preventing grace admonishes us that we should do, justifies us, and makes us predestinated. But those who will not obey, and co-operate with grace; and, therefore, will not observe those things that God would have us perform, and that abuse in the service of Satan the free-will, which they have received of God to perform voluntarily what is good, are consigned to eternal condemnation.

DeaconDean said:

I was reading a sermon by John Wesley, and ran across this:

"Exactly as we are justified by faith, so are we sanctified by faith. Faith is the condition, and the only condition, of sanctification, exactly as it is of justification. It is the condition: none is sanctified but he that believes; with out faith no man is sanctified. And it is the only condition: this alone is sufficient for sanctification. Every one that believes is sanctified, whatever else he has or has not. In other words, no man is sanctified till he believes: every man when he believes is sanctified."

Source

God Bless

Till all are one.

Click to expand...

How can one be made pure if he is not building on Christ to begin with , it's compared to building upon a rock while unbeliever is compared to be building upon a sand .
Everything one did prior to being born again is as if be build upon sand so he either did it for pride , fame or to glorify himself and not God , you can clearly see people do that in these videos with homeless people on youtube when they give them for example new boots worth 200$ and make from the video pride for themselves plus like 10 times that from ads lol .

While we building upon rock as Christ said should not expect anything in return and call the people to the feast which can't repay you not the ones who can .

DeaconDean said:

I was reading a sermon by John Wesley, and ran across this:

"Exactly as we are justified by faith, so are we sanctified by faith. Faith is the condition, and the only condition, of sanctification, exactly as it is of justification. It is the condition: none is sanctified but he that believes; with out faith no man is sanctified. And it is the only condition: this alone is sufficient for sanctification."

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Scripture teaches that all who believe, that is, all who are justified, will be sanctified. In the logical sense, the condition of sanctification is justification.

Wesley is often difficult to tease out essential matters, given the devotional nature of many of his sermons.

Wesley tended to minimize the role of the sin nature in the life of the believer and the conflict it causes within the believer. This conclusion is also supported by the Wesleyan doctrine of entire sanctification. Entire sanctification, important doctrine in Wesleyan theology, offers the hope that Christians are able to live without sin during their lives on Earth.

See
Five Views on Sanctification, in particular Dieter's section therein.

From the book in question, doctrine of entire sanctification leans heavily on Wesley's vague definition of sin. He believed that a Christian who has experienced entire sanctification enjoys freedom from deliberate sins. Sure, slip-ups can still occur, but these result from living in a fallen world. Wesley called these lapses "mistakes"; "because we are imperfect persons in an imperfect world, perfection 'in love' is consistent with a 'thousand mistakes.'

DeaconDean said:

I was reading a sermon by John Wesley, and ran across this:

"Exactly as we are justified by faith, so are we sanctified by faith. Faith is the condition, and the only condition, of sanctification, exactly as it is of justification. It is the condition: none is sanctified but he that believes; with out faith no man is sanctified. And it is the only condition: this alone is sufficient for sanctification. Every one that believes is sanctified, whatever else he has or has not. In other words, no man is sanctified till he believes: every man when he believes is sanctified."

Source

God Bless

Till all are one.

Click to expand...

Faith is God's gift. 1 Timothy 1:14.

DeaconDean said:

I was reading a sermon by John Wesley, and ran across this:

"Exactly as we are justified by faith, so are we sanctified by faith. Faith is the condition, and the only condition, of sanctification, exactly as it is of justification. It is the condition: none is sanctified but he that believes; with out faith no man is sanctified. And it is the only condition: this alone is sufficient for sanctification. Every one that believes is sanctified, whatever else he has or has not. In other words, no man is sanctified till he believes: every man when he believes is sanctified." Source

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Free will as an idol is the presumption of autonomous reasoning, that is independent reasoning that Jesus is the Christ with a [dead] faith that is independent of God before God has mercy making them alive in Christ and sealing them with His Spirit. The reasoning, convincing, and convicting by the Spirit of God is theonomous.

1. Sola scriptura: “Scripture alone”
2. Sola fide: “faith alone”
3. Sola gratia: “grace alone”
4. Solo Christo: “Christ alone”
5. Soli Deo gloria: “to the glory of God alone”

Pretty simple no need to complicate matters.

Wesley is practical. Calvinist live in a dream world, where they are irresistibly saved and sactified without any struggle. Nice thought, too bad it's not reality.

mark kennedy said:

One wonders how such a straight forward statement could be misconstrued. Your justified, sanctified and equipped for service by grace. What's translated 'gifts' in 1 Cor. 12 is the normals Greek word for grace, chaismos. Sanctification is a process not complete until the resurrection, or translation depending on whether your alive at the time. Its always by grace, that much is clear.

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Augustinian, I like that.

Loren T. said:

Wesley is practical. Calvinist live in a dream world, where they are irresistibly saved and sactified without any struggle. Nice thought, too bad it's not reality.

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Sorry but you are in the wrong territory for debating a Calvinist, Calvinists should be able to safely discuss disagreements with non-Calvinist thoughts here in Semper without non-Calvinist trolling or flaming, dontcha think? Must have been an irresistible response, God controlling you...but we know that is not the case. Rather compelled by bias and a presumed duty out of desires originating from autonomous legalism.

Apologetic_Warrior said:

Must have been an irresistible response, God controlling you...but we know that is not the case.

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Ok then , but you just disagreed with your own theology.

Loren T. said:

Ok then , but you just disagreed with your own theology.

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Yeah well nice attempt to bring division (to the few remaining in these parts), but to the contrary, the person who understands Calvinistic compatibilism knows the error of your response. The choir understands, now run along, thanks.

DeaconDean said:

Can you offer evidence to back up your claims? Who says Calvinists are saved and sanctified "without any struggle"?

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Sure, but apparently I'm not allowed in this playground.