Discussion on Prosperity Theology

Chinchilla

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Anyone who has any information, please offer. I'm thinking of delving into financial prosperity, so naturally, I would like to learn more about this. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Prosperity gospel in a nutshell

Luke 18:18-23 King James Version (KJV)
18 And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?

19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.

20 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.

21 And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up.

22 Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.

23 And when he heard this, he was very sorrowful: for he was very rich.
 
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Heart2Soul

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Prosperity gospel in a nutshell

Luke 18:18-23 King James Version (KJV)
18 And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?

19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.

20 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.

21 And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up.

22 Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.

23 And when he heard this, he was very sorrowful: for he was very rich.
It was a test to expose what was really in this mans heart....and to show that he was a "good works" man....keeping all the commandments since his youth was commendable but he loved his money more than serving Him. This is not a rule of thumb that everyone has to sell all they have and distribute it to the poor....I haven't done this but I would if He asked me to. That's the whole point of the message.
 
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Presbyterian Continuist

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What does the Lord want?
From what I read in Scripture, it is not God's will that we be rolling in money at the expense of others, but there is nothing wrong with having wealth through one's own hard work. In fact the Scriptures dealing with prosperity say that a man's labour will be rewarded as the trust in the Lord. But there are references in the Book of Proverbs that put a damper on creating wealth by taking advantage of others, and that wealth gained that way, or quick riches, will disappear just as quickly.

At the same time, it is not God's will that His children be broke and in overwhelming debt. Even when Jesus said that He did not have a place to lay His head, He and His disciples were supplied with their needs through the number of sponsors they had during their time of ministry. Jesus was never broke or in debt. And Paul, being content in whatever situation he found himself in, was never reported as being broke or in debt, and regularly resorted to self-employment to support himself, rather than place a burden on the churches he went to. So, if he had money to fund his missionary efforts, it mainly came from his tent making, rather than over-generous love offerings from church members. In fact, when he did get love offerings from the churches, they were not for him, but for the needs of the Jerusalem Christians who were experiencing a famine.
 
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Daniel Martinovich

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Anyone who has any information, please offer. I'm thinking of delving into financial prosperity, so naturally, I would like to learn more about this. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
Much of the prosperity teachings focus in personal wealth when the emphasis of scripture is more focused on the big picture of national wealth. As in the nation that does righteousness will quite naturally be prosperous. Bible prophecy also focuses many of its promises of national prosperity on this age of promise we are now living in. Because, very simply; God knew there would be many nations influenced by the Gospel and Biblical principle that would therefore be very prosperous and have very large populations of middle and upper class residents.
This is going to increase as time goes on.
Here is an article I wrote in just how God would bless the nations through Abraham’s one descendent.
http://wordservice.org/Bible Basics/bb9000.htm
upload_2018-8-17_15-45-14.jpeg
 
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Heart2Soul

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Much of the prosperity teachings focus in personal wealth when the emphasis of scripture is more focused on the big picture of national wealth. As in the nation that does righteousness will quite naturally be prosperous. Bible prophecy also focuses many of its promises of national prosperity on this age of promise we are now living in. Because, very simply; God knew there would be many nations influenced by the Gospel and Biblical principle that would therefore be very prosperous and have very large populations of middle and upper class residents.
This is going to increase as time goes on.
Here is an article I wrote in just how God would bless the nations through Abraham’s one descendent.
http://wordservice.org/Bible Basics/bb9000.htm
View attachment 238288
It's pretty lengthy so I will have to take some time but the jest of it is to serve the New Jerusalem.
 
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justbyfaith

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Prosperity in the Bible is spoken of far and few between; I would say that it is not the crux of the message that Gods sets forth. The crux is in that Jesus died for our sins.

When I was living under my dad's roof, I considered myself wealthy; and in that such verses as 1 Timothy 6:17 ministered to me, because I also saw such verses as Luke 6:20 and Luke 6:24; and the latter verses told me of condemnation for the wealthy: also James chapter 5.

But prosperity doctrine has its place in the body of Christ; because it encourages the wealthy that they can believe in Christ and that as long as they don't put their trust in riches, they don't necessarily have to sell all they have and give to the poor in order to be saved. This might be a deterrent to some wealthy people, to think that that might be the only way into the kingdom. The only way in is through Jesus Christ.

The fact of the matter is that wealth will not necessarily place you outside the kingdom as long as you don't put your trust in it. The gospel is more often preached to the poor than to the wealthy; because while they are getting food at the mission the gospel is being preached to them. But if you have a lot of wealth it doesn't mean that you also cannot accept the truth of the Cross of Jesus Christ. It just means that you have to hear about it on your computer or television because you are not ripe to go and hear it at a mission where the condition for being physically fed is to sit and listen to the gospel first.

There are many verses that condemn having a lot of wealth because the very nature of wealth is that it makes one complacent and fattened for the slaughter. Revelation 3:17 applies.

However there are certain spiritual principles that if you desire wealth you can operate in those principles to obtain it. Malachi 3:10-12 and Luke 6:38 among others. There is also a prayer in Psalms 118:25. Also 2 Corinthians 9:6 is good when you consider that what you sow, that shall you also reap (Galatians 6:7).

The key in God's word to money is not to make a god/idol out of it. You cannot serve two masters; either you will hate the one and love the other or else you will hold to the one and despise the other.

If you are giving to get then that is probably the wrong motive. But if you are giving because you have the gift of giving and also out of the love for people that the Lord has placed in you, He promises to replenish your supply; pressed down, shaken together, and running over, will men pour into your bosom.

So again, the key is why are you giving? Do you want to be a blessing to others or are you doing it because you want to be blessed? The latter motivation is not of the Holy Spirit and may not even bring the blessing you want. But when you give to be a blessing, God (through men) will pour into your lap so you can be more of a blessing.
 
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Chinchilla

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It was a test to expose what was really in this mans heart....and to show that he was a "good works" man....keeping all the commandments since his youth was commendable but he loved his money more than serving Him. This is not a rule of thumb that everyone has to sell all they have and distribute it to the poor....I haven't done this but I would if He asked me to. That's the whole point of the message.

It is rule of thumb for everyone because God deal with each person the same , he does not favourite one over another .

Psalms 49:7

It just shows that even person which was above average because he kept all the commandments can't make it on thier own to heaven, that's why we needed Christ to do it for us.
 
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now faith

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I would like to Apologize to Shempster for my comment in quoting his post.
I understand that TV preachers can upset others in the way they conduct themselves.
I follow Christ first before any doctrines.
My main influence in Word of Faith was Kenneth E Hagin.
My sincere apologies.
God Bless
 
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Strong in Him

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I've never cared about money much, personally. I'm pretty loose with it, and don't give it much thought.

...But lately, I've been thinking about using it to my advantage. Just wondering if there are any scriptural references to being wise with money, growing it, and putting energy into that -but I Don't want to walk into any evil traps either.

The concept "I want to have lots of money so that I can do good and bless others" sounds good and spiritual, but I'm not sure that it is.
God wants us to give from what we have - the poor widow had coins that were worth less than a penny, but she gave them all to God.
He also wants us to use what we have been given - in the parable of the talents, a talents was money. The wicked servant did not wisely use the money he had been given, so he was not given any more.
Paul also said that it is required of a steward that he be faithful, 1 Corinthians 4:2. He also taught that God wants us to give from what we have, not what we do not have, 2 Corinthians 8:11-12, 2 Corinthians 9:6-8.

If you are faithfully giving from what you have, you MAY find that the Lord gives you more - then again, he may not. He blesses some people with the ability to make lots of money so that they can do good with it; I don't know whether or not you are one of those.
 
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Strong in Him

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In fact, I care so little about money and finances, I'm actually in debt somehow...

We have to care about money, to some extent, because we have a responsibility, to God and others, to use it wisely and make the best use of it.
 
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RDKirk

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If you are faithfully giving from what you have, you MAY find that the Lord gives you more - then again, he may not. He blesses some people with the ability to make lots of money so that they can do good with it; I don't know whether or not you are one of those.

We have different gifts, according to the grace given to each of us. If your gift is prophesying, then prophesy in accordance with your faith; if it is serving, then serve; if it is teaching, then teach; if it is to encourage, then give encouragement; if it is giving, then give generously; if it is to lead, do it diligently; if it is to show mercy, do it cheerfully. -- Romans 12

I look at the bolded portion and I'm reminded of this:

To one he gave five bags of gold, to another two bags, and to another one bag, each according to his ability. -- Matthew 25

This all works together.

I have observed this in people who are using their spiritual gifts: Spiritual gifts are never exhausted.

I know a Christian woman with the spiritual gift of "helps." I knew her when she was in the military, where her job was training administration. She was always about helping other military people in performing their own training, documenting, being ready for inspections--going far above what might have been necessary. She was always right there for everyone.

When she retired from the Air Force, she went into physical therapy--another "helping" role. I'd listen to her talking about someone she worked with, spending weeks just getting a person able to perform a small range of motion of an injured or paralyzed limb.

While listening to her, I was thinking, "It would wear me out to spend weeks of long days with someone just to get his arm to move from here to there."

But this woman was stoked by that work. She was enthusiastic, she was excited, after working for such people for a week, she was eager to begin again the next week.

And on the weekends she visited the sick and elderly. Sure, her body tired and she needed to eat and take a nap now and then, but her spirit never wearied of helping people.

That was something I saw in her hugely different from most people--that was a spiritual gift.

I knew a man who owned a Chevron service station. He was moved by the Holy Spirit to offer two of his service bays once day a month to the church. He would pay for supplies and parts to repair cars for any service that could be done in a day. The pastor kept a "widows and single mothers" list, and applied that list to the Chevron owner's gift. Each woman on the list was scheduled to bring her car in for servicing every three months. The station owner's chief mechanic donated his services, we had some professional dealer mechanics who donated their services, and some decent shade-tree mechanics also donated ours.

Here is the neat thing: The station owner said that he'd expected to consider his losses (lost service business from those bays for that day, the cost of the parts and supplies he'd furnish) to be donations to the church. But the funny thing was that he never suffered any losses. His overall business increased more than the cost of providing the free service to the widows and single mothers of the congregation.

Spiritual gifts are never exhausted. The Holy Spirit is constantly replenishing them from the other side.
 
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Daniel Martinovich

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We have different gifts, according to the grace given to each of us. If your gift is prophesying, then prophesy in accordance with your faith; if it is serving, then serve; if it is teaching, then teach; if it is to encourage, then give encouragement; if it is giving, then give generously; if it is to lead, do it diligently; if it is to show mercy, do it cheerfully. -- Romans 12

I look at the bolded portion and I'm reminded of this:

To one he gave five bags of gold, to another two bags, and to another one bag, each according to his ability. -- Matthew 25

This all works together.

I have observed this in people who are using their spiritual gifts: Spiritual gifts are never exhausted.

I know a Christian woman with the spiritual gift of "helps." I knew her when she was in the military, where her job was training administration. She was always about helping other military people in performing their own training, documenting, being ready for inspections--going far above what might have been necessary. She was always right there for everyone.

When she retired from the Air Force, she went into physical therapy--another "helping" role. I'd listen to her talking about someone she worked with, spending weeks just getting a person able to perform a small range of motion of an injured or paralyzed limb.

While listening to her, I was thinking, "It would wear me out to spend weeks of long days with someone just to get his arm to move from here to there."

But this woman was stoked by that work. She was enthusiastic, she was excited, after working for such people for a week, she was eager to begin again the next week.

And on the weekends she visited the sick and elderly. Sure, her body tired and she needed to eat and take a nap now and then, but her spirit never wearied of helping people.

That was something I saw in her hugely different from most people--that was a spiritual gift.

I knew a man who owned a Chevron service station. He was moved by the Holy Spirit to offer two of his service bays once day a month to the church. He would pay for supplies and parts to repair cars for any service that could be done in a day. The pastor kept a "widows and single mothers" list, and applied that list to the Chevron owner's gift. Each woman on the list was scheduled to bring her car in for servicing every three months. The station owner's chief mechanic donated his services, we had some professional dealer mechanics who donated their services, and some decent shade-tree mechanics also donated ours.

Here is the neat thing: The station owner said that he'd expected to consider his losses (lost service business from those bays for that day, the cost of the parts and supplies he'd furnish) to be donations to the church. But the funny thing was that he never suffered any losses. His overall business increased more than the cost of providing the free service to the widows and single mothers of the congregation.

Spiritual gifts are never exhausted. The Holy Spirit is constantly replenishing them from the other side.
Along those same lines. The “gift” of “giving” is in reality a “gift” of being able to create or acquire wealth. Those seven gifts are personality types and the names given for them are descriptive terms.
 
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Strong in Him

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We have different gifts, according to the grace given to each of us. If your gift is prophesying, then prophesy in accordance with your faith; if it is serving, then serve; if it is teaching, then teach; if it is to encourage, then give encouragement; if it is giving, then give generously; if it is to lead, do it diligently; if it is to show mercy, do it cheerfully. -- Romans 12

I look at the bolded portion and I'm reminded of this:

To one he gave five bags of gold, to another two bags, and to another one bag, each according to his ability. -- Matthew 25

This all works together.

I have observed this in people who are using their spiritual gifts: Spiritual gifts are never exhausted.

Absolutely.
But I was talking about financial giving. It's a bit confusing sometimes because when we hear the word "talent" we think of gift or spiritual gift. But in the parable it was a sum of money.

I'm probably completely wrong, but I was worried the op was thinking in terms of checking out the Prosperity Gospel and giving to get something back.
That's why I said that God wants us to be faithful with what he has given to us.

I know a Christian woman with the spiritual gift of "helps." I knew her when she was in the military, where her job was training administration. She was always about helping other military people in performing their own training, documenting, being ready for inspections--going far above what might have been necessary. She was always right there for everyone.

When she retired from the Air Force, she went into physical therapy--another "helping" role. I'd listen to her talking about someone she worked with, spending weeks just getting a person able to perform a small range of motion of an injured or paralyzed limb.

While listening to her, I was thinking, "It would wear me out to spend weeks of long days with someone just to get his arm to move from here to there."

But this woman was stoked by that work. She was enthusiastic, she was excited, after working for such people for a week, she was eager to begin again the next week.

And on the weekends she visited the sick and elderly. Sure, her body tired and she needed to eat and take a nap now and then, but her spirit never wearied of helping people.

That was something I saw in her hugely different from most people--that was a spiritual gift.

What a fantastic, gifted and faithful woman.

I knew a man who owned a Chevron service station. He was moved by the Holy Spirit to offer two of his service bays once day a month to the church. He would pay for supplies and parts to repair cars for any service that could be done in a day. The pastor kept a "widows and single mothers" list, and applied that list to the Chevron owner's gift. Each woman on the list was scheduled to bring her car in for servicing every three months. The station owner's chief mechanic donated his services, we had some professional dealer mechanics who donated their services, and some decent shade-tree mechanics also donated ours.

Here is the neat thing: The station owner said that he'd expected to consider his losses (lost service business from those bays for that day, the cost of the parts and supplies he'd furnish) to be donations to the church. But the funny thing was that he never suffered any losses. His overall business increased more than the cost of providing the free service to the widows and single mothers of the congregation.

Spiritual gifts are never exhausted. The Holy Spirit is constantly replenishing them from the other side.

Amen.
And wow; what a faithful guy.
 
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Strong in Him

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Along those same lines. The “gift” of “giving” is in reality a “gift” of being able to create or acquire wealth. Those seven gifts are personality types and the names given for them are descriptive terms.

There are more than 7 gifts mentioned in Scripture.
And where do you get the idea that they are personality types?
 
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Daniel Martinovich

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There are more than 7 gifts mentioned in Scripture.
And where do you get the idea that they are personality types?
Different Greek words and you just can't mix all the "gifts" in other chapters of the Bible and declare them to all be the same types of things. They are ALL gifts only in the sense that all good things come from God. That does not mean every time the word gift is used they are all the same in substance or nature. In Romans 12 or 13 wherever that is. Those seven gifts are gifts in the sense of the creation of mankind. They are created within the range of 7 different personality types and the words used are descriptive. The reason they are considered gifts is because each personality type is a gift and they are all wonderful in their own right. They however are not "gifts" like the nine miraculous manifestations of the Holy Spirit in Corinthians. They are not "gifts" in the sense of the empowerment's of the 5 ministries gifts in Ephesians....get my point? All these gifts are different in nature.
 
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Strong in Him

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In Romans 12 or 13 wherever that is. Those seven gifts are gifts in the sense of the creation of mankind. They are created within the range of 7 different personality types and the words used are descriptive. The reason they are considered gifts is because each personality type is a gift and they are all wonderful in their own right.

Like I said, how do you know?
Where does it say that when Paul wrote about gifts he actually meant personality types?

They however are not "gifts" like the nine miraculous manifestations of the Holy Spirit in Corinthians.

They are gifts from God given through the Holy Spirit. Everything we have is a gift from God.
In the OT he gave people gifts of craftsmanship so that they could build, and furnish, the temple. Peter mentions the gift of hospitality.

One of these "miraculous gifts" that you mention from Corinthians is the gift of administration, 1 Corinthians 12:28. I wasn't aware that that was particularly miraculous.
I do think it is a gift that is widely ignored, however - people prefer to focus on the more outward and demonstrative gifts like tongues, prophecy, word of knowledge and so on. Few people say "I typed 1,000 envelopes in an hour", or "I really want the gift of drawing up rotas."

They are not "gifts" in the sense of the empowerment's of the 5 ministries gifts in Ephesians....get my point? All these gifts are different in nature.

Of course all these gifts are different in nature. That's the point of 1 Corinthians 12; we are all the body of Christ, no one person, or one gift, is greater than any of the others. All gifts, talents, abilities, call them what you like, are from God, and he wants us to use everything that he gives us in his service.

You seem to be implying that the more miraculous gifts are really gifts of the Spirit, while everything else is just a natural ability. I don't believe there is any such distinction - ALL are from God.
 
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Daniel Martinovich

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Like I said, how do you know?
Where does it say that when Paul wrote about gifts he actually meant personality types?



They are gifts from God given through the Holy Spirit. Everything we have is a gift from God.
In the OT he gave people gifts of craftsmanship so that they could build, and furnish, the temple. Peter mentions the gift of hospitality.

One of these "miraculous gifts" that you mention from Corinthians is the gift of administration, 1 Corinthians 12:28. I wasn't aware that that was particularly miraculous.
I do think it is a gift that is widely ignored, however - people prefer to focus on the more outward and demonstrative gifts like tongues, prophecy, word of knowledge and so on. Few people say "I typed 1,000 envelopes in an hour", or "I really want the gift of drawing up rotas."



Of course all these gifts are different in nature. That's the point of 1 Corinthians 12; we are all the body of Christ, no one person, or one gift, is greater than any of the others. All gifts, talents, abilities, call them what you like, are from God, and he wants us to use everything that he gives us in his service.

You seem to be implying that the more miraculous gifts are really gifts of the Spirit, while everything else is just a natural ability. I don't believe there is any such distinction - ALL are from God.
No I'm not implying that. It's both sides and everything in between and Corinthians list both the miraculous and the natural.
 
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Strong in Him

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No I'm not implying that. It's both sides and everything in between and Corinthians list both the miraculous and the natural.

I don't understand what you're saying, then.
 
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RDKirk

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Along those same lines. The “gift” of “giving” is in reality a “gift” of being able to create or acquire wealth. Those seven gifts are personality types and the names given for them are descriptive terms.

Yes, yes, I meant to say that.

That's a facet of the "replenishment" aspect. If you're someone God has designated as a financial sustainer in the Body of Christ (as, for instance, Phebe was), and you operate in faith in that role, He will also maintain your ability to acquire wealth.

I do not worry about lists or titles. I look at how the person is working to serve the Body. You can tell those working in a spiritual gift because they will be "natural" at it, and doing it will be a pleasure to them.

It may not look like the same thing all the time, but it will be the same ways that can be manifest in different ways. For instance, "exhortation" --encouragement-- in one case may be singing in the choir. In another case the same gift of exhortation may be praying for and with others. But you will see this person with the ability to lift spirits in dark times, he will always know precisely what to say to any given individual, and you may wonder, "How did he know to say that particular thing to that particular person?"
 
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I make about 200,000 a year, and have for 10 years now, and i live in an apartment, and I have nothing to show for it. No nest egg. No property. No investments. No businesses... Nothing.
You're prosperous enough, you just need a financial advisor.

Anyway, prosperity doctrine is basically magic. Do this, say that, maintain the right confession, and God has to fork over. Bah!
 
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