Women Catholic Priests?

bekkilyn · Aug 16, 2018

JoeP222w said:
I don't understand your comment at all.

In what order does God create things in Chapter 1 and then in what order does God create things in Chapter 2?

NW82 · Aug 16, 2018

bekkilyn said:
It's only "stated" if you take scripture out of context and intentionally disregard Paul's intended messages as well as certain situations going on in churches that Paul was addressing. Some verses weren't even written by Paul but were added to a letter at a later date, but again, this context is ignored by those wanting to uphold the agenda to keep women second class. When you interpret scripture in a way that harms other people, it's not of God. People used the same type of "reasoning" and (mis)interpretation when they were using out of context scripture to support slavery.

When one has an agenda to be exclusive, it doesn't matter how much reason or rationality or biblical scholarship or deeper understanding from the Holy Spirit may be available, their ears and eyes are plugged because they don't want anything to ever be changed. "See their ears are closed, they cannot listen."

Can you then enlighten us as to the context we seem to be missing? Also it's nothing to do with second class or discrimination; I explain this in post #166, with clear scriptural backing. Men and women were never meant to be the same, though having equal value, have different roles. The man was meant to be the head if the woman and Christ the head if the man. This is very clear. Anyone who believes this is discrimination rather than a separation of roles in God's design needs to back it up with scripture.

NW82 · Aug 16, 2018

dreadnought said:
There was a lady named Deborah, you might recall, who the Lord appointed judge over Israel.

Judge and priest aren't equal. Just like A King and a Priest weren't equal, see 1 Samuel 13

dreadnought · Aug 16, 2018

NW82 said:
Judge and priest aren't equal. Just like A King and a Priest weren't equal, see 1 Samuel 13

But I believe that men and women are equal.

NW82 · Aug 16, 2018

dreadnought said:
But I believe that men and women are equal.

Who said they aren't equal in value? However being equal doesn't mean being identical, Genesis 1:27. We all have the same value to God, Galatians 3:28, but He specifically assigned roles to men and women, 1 Corinthians 11:3-10.

GingerBeer · Aug 16, 2018

dreadnought said:
The Lord had a woman ruling over Israel. Doesn't that say it all?

It says that leadership is not priesthood.

dreadnought · Aug 16, 2018

NW82 said:
Who said they aren't equal in value? However being equal doesn't mean being identical, Genesis 1:27. We all have the same value to God, Galatians 3:28, but He specifically assigned roles to men and women, 1 Corinthians 11:3-10.

Equal in that men shouldn't rule over women.

dreadnought · Aug 16, 2018

GingerBeer said:
It says that leadership is not priesthood.

Priests should obey the laws of the Lord, and that is leadership.

GingerBeer · Aug 16, 2018

dreadnought said:
Priests should obey the laws of the Lord, and that is leadership.

You are making unreasonable equivalences in the hope that leadership will become priesthood but the fact remains no member of the tribe of Judah ever became a priest in Israel. That is confirmed in Hebrews 7:11-17

dreadnought · Aug 16, 2018

GingerBeer said:
You are making unreasonable equivalences in the hope that leadership will become priesthood but the fact remains no member of the tribe of Judah ever became a priest in Israel. That is confirmed in Hebrews 7:11-17

Beyond the fact that Paul and Peter didn't believe in women priests, I see no reason they shouldn't be priests.

Albion · Aug 16, 2018

As noted previously, it is impossible to have both--the Bible believed to be the word of God, and its opposite, a personal preference not based on the Bible.

I long ago concluded that I had to go with the first of these.

zippy2006 · Aug 16, 2018

dreadnought said:
Beyond the fact that Paul and Peter didn't believe in women priests, I see no reason they shouldn't be priests.

That ought to be such a strange thing for a Protestant to say, "Apart from the Bible, I see no reason." Isn't the Bible supposed to be your bread and butter?

Granted, I appreciate your candidness. You explicitly reject Peter and Paul rather than, say, claim that the verses you disagree with were simply not written by Paul. At the same time I don't know why you keep referencing Peter and Paul as if you can separate them from scripture. (Albion has already covered this in some detail throughout the thread.)

dreadnought said:
Still, I am aware of no Bible verse that suggests the Lord (God or Jesus) disapproved.

Have you ever read 1 Corinthians 14:36-38? It's sort of relevant since it directly follows 1 Corinthians 14:34-35. I actually find it fairly hard to imagine any clearer evidence, lol. :oldthumbsup:

NW82 · Aug 16, 2018

dreadnought said:
Equal in that men shouldn't rule over women.

Then you deny scripture, see Genesis 3:16, and that is God himself talking.

Lost4words · Aug 16, 2018

dreadnought said:
My point is that having six men and six women together all the time, night and day, would expose them to a lot of sexual temptation.

Really? Not everyone would think that though.

Remember they were picked by Jesus. He knew their strengths and weaknesses. He picked 12 men. Not because of the risk of sexual encounters if He picked 6 women instead. No. He was following Tradition.

Silly Uncle Wayne · Aug 16, 2018

bekkilyn said:
It's only "stated" if you take scripture...

It was more of a rhetorical question. Sometimes it is better to get someone to respond and fumble through scripture while you gently point out why they are wrong. Going at their theology with a giant axe is more likely to have them putting up shields or running away.

Silly Uncle Wayne · Aug 16, 2018

NW82 said:
Then you deny scripture, see Genesis 3:16, and that is God himself talking.

That is husbands and wives not men and women. Different dynamic.

NW82 · Aug 16, 2018

Silly Uncle Wayne said:
That is husbands and wives not men and women. Different dynamic.

Different dynamic but given the reference to the OP, its relevant. But Genesis 3:16 doesn't work for, there's 1 Corinthians 11:3.

Silly Uncle Wayne · Aug 16, 2018

bekkilyn said:
I suppose you must define "all Christians" as being largely men since other voices (women, minorities, etc.) were effectively silenced throughout most of church history.

I also haven't been cherry-picked verses out of context to "prove" that women are second class, so I'm not sure where you are getting the idea that I am throwing these verses out, unless you mean those that most biblical scholars agree were *not* written by Paul, so maybe go take up your argument on those with them and not me. In any case, if they weren't written by Paul, then they don't have the same scriptural authority.

I’m not sure that ‘most’ do think that, though it is a significant number.

Also I think they probably do have authority on the basis that they are in the Bible and it is only really modern scholarship that disputes them.

dreadnought · Aug 16, 2018

zippy2006 said:
That ought to be such a strange thing for a Protestant to say, "Apart from the Bible, I see no reason." Isn't the Bible supposed to be your bread and butter?

Granted, I appreciate your candidness. You explicitly reject Peter and Paul rather than, say, claim that the verses you disagree with were simply not written by Paul. At the same time I don't know why you keep referencing Peter and Paul as if you can separate them from scripture. (Albion has already covered this in some detail throughout the thread.)

Have you ever read 1 Corinthians 14:36-38? It's sort of relevant since it directly follows 1 Corinthians 14:34-35. I actually find it fairly hard to imagine any clearer evidence, lol.

A strange thing for a Protestant to say?

dreadnought · Aug 16, 2018

NW82 said:
Then you deny scripture, see Genesis 3:16, and that is God himself talking.

That was a prophesy, I believe, not a command.

Women Catholic Priests?

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