Ethics of lying

Lots of Questions · Aug 12, 2018

This is something I've always wondered: What are the actual ethics of lying, from a Christian perspective?
For example when someone asks you for your opinion and you know the honest answer would hurt them. Or when you are flirting with someone and you exaggerate a bit or pretend to be more interested in something about them than you really are. Or when some aspect of yourself is too humiliating and you would rather not tell someone who asks you about it.
When I had my job interview I lied and said I did some freelance work for 2 years. In reality I didn't, I was just dealing with depression and didn't do anything productive those years. But if I had really told them that I imagine I wouldn't have gotten the job.
The world is really competitive and if you are honest all the time you get lost. And I know some people say you could not necessarily "say" the truth but you can "hide" the truth or say something that isn't false but isn't really the complete truth. Is that what Jesus really wants? It sounds like a dodgy game, not very ethical either but I don't know. Besides that doesn't always work, for example you can't just say "I don't want to talk about that" all the time.

So what's the deal with this? Is lying always wrong? Some translations to Spanish of the commandments made me think not lying just meant "not accusing someone of something they didn't do", which sounds reasonable. But I don't know if God basically wants us to not lie ever, about anything, and face the consequences of being honest 100% of the time.

Doug Melven · Aug 12, 2018

Lots of Questions said:
So what's the deal with this? Is lying always wrong? Some translations to Spanish of the commandments made me think not lying just meant "not accusing someone of something they didn't do", which sounds reasonable. But I don't know if God basically wants us to not lie ever, about anything, and face the consequences of being honest 100% of the time.

Actually the command is not to bear false witness. Don't be deceptive about anything.

Lying is always wrong. If you fell telling someone the truth would hurt them, let them know you are going to speak the truth or find a way not to say anything.
For instance if a girl asks you if the dress she is wearing makes her look fat, and it actually does make her look fat. Tell her God thinks she's beautiful no matter what, therefore she is beautiful.
Or at least find a way to speak the truth in love.
Some people will just speak the truth regardless if it hurts someone, this is not God's way.

As for the job, tell the truth. If it comes out later that you lied, it will be worse for you.
In my own situation I told prospective employers that I was a lifetime registered sex offender, consequently I was unable to get a job. Then God opened a door so I could own my own business.

Tell the truth and trust God for the consequences.

1 John 4:1 · Aug 12, 2018

Lots of Questions said:
ome translations to Spanish of the commandments made me think not lying just meant "not accusing someone of something they didn't do", which sounds reasonable.

One of the ten commandments "thou shalt not bear false witness . . ." refers to legal situations. (i.e. don't lie in court) However, there is another verse that states more generally not to lie: Leviticus 19:11

salt-n-light · Aug 12, 2018

Doug Melven said:
In my own situation I told prospective employers that I was a lifetime registered sex offender, consequently I was unable to get a job. Then God opened a door so I could own my own business.

:O

Hank77 · Aug 12, 2018

1 John 4:1 said:
One of the ten commandments "thou shalt not bear false witness . . ." refers to legal situations. (i.e. don't lie in court) However, there is another verse that states more generally not to lie: Leviticus 19:11

I believe Lev. 19:11 is all about stealing and falsely claiming something is yours when it belongs to someone else. Property rights.

Seun · Aug 12, 2018

I think any lie whether big or small is a sin. ( Ephesians 4:25, Proverbs 19:9, Revelation 21:8 ) However if you confess your sin to God he will forgive you. ( 1 John 1:9 )

HTacianas · Aug 12, 2018

Lots of Questions said:
This is something I've always wondered: What are the actual ethics of lying, from a Christian perspective?
For example when someone asks you for your opinion and you know the honest answer would hurt them. Or when you are flirting with someone and you exaggerate a bit or pretend to be more interested in something about them than you really are. Or when some aspect of yourself is too humiliating and you would rather not tell someone who asks you about it.
When I had my job interview I lied and said I did some freelance work for 2 years. In reality I didn't, I was just dealing with depression and didn't do anything productive those years. But if I had really told them that I imagine I wouldn't have gotten the job.
The world is really competitive and if you are honest all the time you get lost. And I know some people say you could not necessarily "say" the truth but you can "hide" the truth or say something that isn't false but isn't really the complete truth. Is that what Jesus really wants? It sounds like a dodgy game, not very ethical either but I don't know. Besides that doesn't always work, for example you can't just say "I don't want to talk about that" all the time.

So what's the deal with this? Is lying always wrong? Some translations to Spanish of the commandments made me think not lying just meant "not accusing someone of something they didn't do", which sounds reasonable. But I don't know if God basically wants us to not lie ever, about anything, and face the consequences of being honest 100% of the time.

In the Revelation it is said that "...all liars shall have their place in the lake of fire". But their is no definition of "liar".

The Didache says ".... a lie leads to theft", meaning what we today would call fraud, i.e., lying to deprive a person of some thing or another. The Shepherd of Hermes equates lying with robbery, which has the same meaning.

You most likely violated the rule with your employer, in that being dishonest was for your own gain, depriving your employer of the experience he expected you to have.

In the end, you should be honest in all your dealings with others.

SkyWriting · Aug 12, 2018

Lots of Questions said:
This is something I've always wondered: What are the actual ethics of lying, from a Christian perspective?
For example when someone asks you for your opinion and you know the honest answer would hurt them.

The ethics of shutting up.

What Does the Bible Say About Keeping Quiet? - OpenBible.info

juvenissun · Aug 13, 2018

Lots of Questions said:
This is something I've always wondered: What are the actual ethics of lying, from a Christian perspective?
For example when someone asks you for your opinion and you know the honest answer would hurt them. Or when you are flirting with someone and you exaggerate a bit or pretend to be more interested in something about them than you really are. Or when some aspect of yourself is too humiliating and you would rather not tell someone who asks you about it.
When I had my job interview I lied and said I did some freelance work for 2 years. In reality I didn't, I was just dealing with depression and didn't do anything productive those years. But if I had really told them that I imagine I wouldn't have gotten the job.
The world is really competitive and if you are honest all the time you get lost. And I know some people say you could not necessarily "say" the truth but you can "hide" the truth or say something that isn't false but isn't really the complete truth. Is that what Jesus really wants? It sounds like a dodgy game, not very ethical either but I don't know. Besides that doesn't always work, for example you can't just say "I don't want to talk about that" all the time.

So what's the deal with this? Is lying always wrong? Some translations to Spanish of the commandments made me think not lying just meant "not accusing someone of something they didn't do", which sounds reasonable. But I don't know if God basically wants us to not lie ever, about anything, and face the consequences of being honest 100% of the time.

In most case, a person recognition about a subject of a matter is like:
A: 30% known for sure
B: 40% partially known
C: 30% speculation
In other words, there are actually very little thing you completely understand.

So,
Only say 15% about A. -- NOT lying.
Say all about B -- NOT lying.
Say all about C -- NOT lying.
Agree upon all opposed opinion about B -- NOT lying.
Agree upon all opposed opinion about C -- NOT lying.
No response to any opposed opinion about A -- NOT lying
etc. etc.

So, technically it is not that easy to actually lie. Many things you think you are lying, but actually you are not. Because you may just said something, which is true but you simply misunderstood, or do not know.

Lying or not, is not so much about the information, but is totally about your intention toward the person. For example, if a terminally ill person ask you: would I die? You love the person, so you said no, regardless what the medical data show. You think you are lying. But who knows? There is still a chance that you may be right.

Another example: regards to some critical information, you only tell the concerned person 95% (completely true info) and hide the critical 5% because of an evil intention. Are you lying? I would say yes, you lied, even what you said is 100% true.

mama2one · Aug 13, 2018

Lots of Questions said:
For example when someone asks you for your opinion and you know the honest answer would hurt them.

an opinion is just an opinion

am one of those brutally honest people
if you ask me, will tell you

why are people afraid of the truth?
I prefer people tell me the truth, even if it would hurt my feelings

better to tell the truth and be honest

we have taught our child to always tell the truth and I have thanked her for telling the truth
we have told her not to be afraid to tell us the truth as we are here for her

Doug Melven · Aug 13, 2018

christine40 said:
an opinion is just an opinion

am one of those brutally honest people
if you ask me, will tell you

why are people afraid of the truth?
I prefer people tell me the truth, even if it would hurt my feelings

better to tell the truth and be honest

we have taught our child to always tell the truth and I have thanked her for telling the truth
we have told her not to be afraid to tell us the truth as we are here for her

Better to give the Truth than a true fact.
Speak the truth in love. No need to be "brutally honest", unless the Spirit tells you to do so. See Matthew 23. Jesus was brutally honest with the Pharisees and scribes, but there was a plan there. He wasn't just brutally honest for no reason.

Cuddles333 · Aug 13, 2018

Depending on the situation.....lying can sometimes be the righteous thing to do. For instance, in WWII when the Nazis searched house-to-house looking for Jews, some of the people lied saying that no Jews were in the house with them. When in fact they were hiding some in their basement.
This is an example of Objective morality. If one believes that people should be bound to Absolute morality, then it would be totally wrong that these people lie to the Nazis and should give up the Jews to the Nazis for righteousness sake.

Doug Melven · Aug 13, 2018

Cuddles333 said:
Depending on the situation.....lying can sometimes be the righteous thing to do. For instance, in WWII when the Nazis searched house-to-house looking for Jews, some of the people lied saying that no Jews were in the house with them. When in fact they were hiding some in their basement.
This is an example of Objective morality. If one believes that people should be bound to Absolute morality, then it would be totally wrong that these people lie to the Nazis and should give up the Jews to the Nazis for righteousness sake.

That is what I call "down to earth wisdom".
It sure does sound good, but it takes God out of the picture and makes us rely on ourselves.
If those people had told the Nazis that they were harboring Jews, they would have had to defend the Jews themselves or depend on God to protect the Jews. Instead they chose deception.
God tells us to speak the truth in love.

grasping the after wind · Aug 13, 2018

juvenissun said:
In most case, a person recognition about a subject of a matter is like:
A: 30% known for sure
B: 40% partially known
C: 30% speculation
In other words, there are actually very little thing you completely understand.

So,
Only say 15% about A. -- NOT lying.
Say all about B -- NOT lying.
Say all about C -- NOT lying.
Agree upon all opposed opinion about B -- NOT lying.
Agree upon all opposed opinion about C -- NOT lying.
No response to any opposed opinion about A -- NOT lying
etc. etc.

So, technically it is not that easy to actually lie. Many things you think you are lying, but actually you are not. Because you may just said something, which is true but you simply misunderstood, or do not know.

Lying or not, is not so much about the information, but is totally about your intention toward the person. For example, if a terminally ill person ask you: would I die? You love the person, so you said no, regardless what the medical data show. You think you are lying. But who knows? There is still a chance that you may be right.

Another example: regards to some critical information, you only tell the concerned person 95% (completely true info) and hide the critical 5% because of an evil intention. Are you lying? I would say yes, you lied, even what you said is 100% true.

Rationalization is just another form of lying aka self deception. For instance if one does not think they are qualified to tell another that the other is going to die, when an adult asks " Am I going to die? " one does not say " No" and attempt convince oneself that one did that out of some parental-like benevolence because one has godlike powers of omniscience and knows that truth will destroy the much less capable than oneself person asking the question, , one says " I am not qualified to tell you if you are going to die." . Saying "no ", when one is not at all sure that the answer is "no" and especially when one has been informed that the answer is "probably", is a lie and it is IMO more often motivated by a wish to avoid an unpleasant situation for oneself than it is by any concern for the person being told the untruth. I find it unreasonable that so many people seem to believe they can treat another adult as a child and have the right to deceive another adult about that other adult's own health and use as an excuse for their unwarranted usurpation of the others' adult sovereignty some twisted idea of what compassion toward that person entails. How is it in the least compassionate to another person to judge their competence as an adult and find them unworthy of the truth? ? Decide for them that they are too fragile to be told the truth? If they asked the question I would assume they wanted an honest answer. If they wanted to hide from the truth , they would not have asked.

Cuddles333 · Aug 13, 2018

Joshua 2 King James Version (KJV)
2 And Joshua the son of Nun sent out of [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]tim two men to spy secretly, saying, Go view the land, even Jericho. And they went, and came into an harlot's house, named Rahab, and lodged there.

2 And it was told the king of Jericho, saying, Behold, there came men in hither to night of the children of Israel to search out the country.

3 And the king of Jericho sent unto Rahab, saying, Bring forth the men that are come to thee, which are entered into thine house: for they be come to search out all the country.

4 And the woman took the two men, and hid them, and said thus, There came men unto me, but I wist not whence they were:

5 And it came to pass about the time of shutting of the gate, when it was dark, that the men went out: whither the men went I wot not: pursue after them quickly; for ye shall overtake them.

6 But she had brought them up to the roof of the house, and hid them with the stalks of flax, which she had laid in order upon the roof.

7 And the men pursued after them the way to Jordan unto the fords: and as soon as they which pursued after them were gone out, they shut the gate

Cuddles333 · Aug 14, 2018

The writer of the book of Hebrews lists Rehab the prostitute along with Moses and the great patriarchs of the Old Testament in the 11th chapter...the great faith chapter. What she did when she lied to the king of Jericho to save the Israelite spies is what is known in Apologetics as Objective morality.

1 John 4:1 · Aug 15, 2018

Hank77 said:
I believe Lev. 19:11 is all about stealing and falsely claiming something is yours when it belongs to someone else. Property rights.

Interesting.

I think this combined with Matthew 5:37 still gets me to the idea that you shouldn't lie. However, I can see what you are saying:
"nor to swear by the name of Jehovah to lie and defraud, and so profane the name of God (see Exodus 20:7, Exodus 20:16);" https://biblehub.com/commentaries/kad/leviticus/19.htm

Ethics of lying

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... and God saw that it was good.

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That's grasping after the wind

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