How to shut down a JW 101

My standard question for JWs is, "Why do you trust the Watch tower society for your eternal salvation? They are a man-made organization formed in 1816. They have made multiple prophesies that have not come true, so why do you trust them?

John 8:58 is said to be another strong proof that Christ is Jehovah, for the name Jehovah is said
by Trinitarians to mean “I Am” — “the Self-Existing One” — and Jesus in that verse says,
“Before Abraham was I am.’ Jesus, however, does not apply “l am” to himself as a title; he uses
the words as the subject and verb of an ordinary sentence, meaning simply that from before
Abraham’s time until the present he had had a continuous existence. To make “I am” a title in
this sentence is grammatically absurd. For Jesus to have said, “Before Abraham was, I was,”
might have been mistaken by his hearers to mean that he had existed at some time in the remote
past, had ceased to exist for a time, and had come into existence again. To avoid this
misunderstanding, Jesus used the words, “I am,” to imply a continuous existence. Jesus existed
long before Abraham’s time: and he continued to exist after Abraham until, as the Word made
flesh he uttered those very words.

The word Jehovah, more correctly Yahweh, does not really mean “I Am” but “He Who
Becomes,” as J. B. Rotherham, an authority widely recognized among Protestants, has shown.
Yahweh is the third person, masculine, singular, imperfect tense of the root hawah, the sole
meaning of which is “become.” And so Jehovah, the Heavenly Father, is forever “He Who
Becomes,” the unfolding one, eternally revealing himself in creative power

Truth Lover said:

My standard question for JWs is, "Why do you trust the Watch tower society for your eternal salvation? They are a man-made organization formed in 1816. They have made multiple prophesies that have not come true, so why do you trust them?

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Actually the Watch Tower Society was formed in 1881, and incorporated in 1884, The Watch Tower magazine was first printed in July 1879. The Watch Tower has two histories, first the Bible Students and then later in 1931 the Jehovah's Witnesses. The two groups still exist, separately.

While I would agree that Christians should have a personal relationship with God and Christ, there are many who put their faith in their particular denomination, or hang on every word that a particular pastor or tele-evangelists utters.

God DOESN't approve of ANY denomination on earth today, he doesn't back any church. He deals with individuals, as we are joined to Him and Him alone.

friend of said:

John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM.

Exodus 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

Jesus IS the Almighty I AM

ALL PRAISE TO YAHWEH!!!

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In short you CANNOT SHUTDOWN a JW!

What you can do is to SWITCH them ON!

Remember that these are humans you are dealing with and are reared up to believe what they believe as their infallible Primary Discourses set in stone so to speak.

Your mission is not to argue with them at all. You don't want to get into a slugging back and forth match, or I am right and you are wrong debate.

The success to SWITCH on a JW is to agree on face value, yes I know it is rather deceptive and troll like, but when you say I concur....I agree...I am seeing how you are seeing, whilst not inviting them in your house or making promises to take their literature until they convince you wholesomely, right!

Play hard to get and I mean in the most flirtatious hard to get ways possible, without inviting them into your house our committing to anything. I strictly mean doctrinally flirtatious and not biologically ok.

So the dialogue would go something like this....

JW says...........Have you heard about the JWs.....

You say........Aaaaa......come to think of it ....I have heard good things from a friend at work.

JW says...........I want to give you this pamphlet, may I come in to speak to you about it?

You say............Mmmm......I really don't know, should I, I really don't know much about JW, but could you inform me please.

Prepare to close your mind and continually nod, pretend you are somewhere else.

Then when asked a question, keep them hanging like I don't understand and want to belief you, but I really don't know at this time what I should do.

While this is going on, throw in some planters you have prepared, like......

You say............If Jesus was not the Almighty God when he said that he is the I Am, I would not be sure that he can save me, I just would feel anxiety and uncomfortable with that thought and have trouble sleeping at night when I pray.

You say..............(Keep on saying after the planter above), "look I don't know, it is hard for me you know, let me pray on it. Could you come again tomorrow?"

You say..........I mean if Jesus is a created being like me and you, then my mind tells me how can I trust a created being after the Fall, since Satan was created perfect and yet fell, I see that I could only trust Jesus if he is God himself, orherwise I would have uncertainties creeping in my mind, uncertainties that make me very restless and I don't know that I will be able to hold anything to heart.

You say........look I don't know, it is hard for me you know, let me pray on it.

You say..............(another planters) "I had Mormons come to me and explain that Satan and Jesus were like brothers and they being created angels were made perfect, but one fell from God's Grace."

You say......I just feel if Jesus is not God, then he could in time have the same temptation as Satan, given eternity.


JW says..........it is not like that........

You say...........I want to believe you........The world puts so much pressure on children who are born first, yet we see that not all first born stay first born, look at the story of Essau and Jacob. What I mean, if a created being can change over time, because Satan changed from being perfect, right? That troubles me.

The idea is to put planters of self doubt in yourself as an actor trolling them along, until these planters become their own self doubt in the hope of switching them on.

This is how one changes primary discourses, because the mind works in funny ways, it creates story lines much like a story narrative and when a conflict outside of a personal attack or personal context is planted, then the mind tries to automatically flag it as a friendly planter, by trying to resolve the conflict, created by those planters and yet all along they never knew you were out fishing

If you come from a point of view of shutting them down, then the mind behaves like a firewall, trying to keep out a virus.

Shoetoyou said:

But often discussion follows our actions and attitudes. If we are not welcoming and charitable, further discussion will be behind the stone wall of JW teaching, rather than around the coffee table of Christ’s love, and will have no hope of any fruit.

John 13:35

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The only hope for most JWs is when they see the REAL Jesus in in the flesh. But for some even then it might be too late. They are too caught up in works.
And believe and convinced they are the only one true religion. Not to mention also thier persecution complex.

Yes, He is the almighty Yahweh. I just wished I knew how to obey Him, the almighty God.

It took me a solid 10 comments before I figured that that JW stood for "Jehovah's Witness" and wasn't some weird/pointless abbreviation for the word "Jew".

Shoetoyou said:

“How to shut down a JW 101”

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I've found that JW's usually arrive in pairs. There is usually an older or at least more seasoned one and a younger or less seasoned "trainee".

After identifying who's who - I make eye contact with the younger of the two and never again make eye contact with the "old pro".

I only address or respond to things said by the younger of the two. I feel that the older "pro" has long ago hardened his heart against the truth.

I always stress the gospel of grace. I always make it a point to ask questions concerning their salvational status right this minute.

When they admit that they are not saved at this minute but that they hope that they will be in the future - I tell them that that's the difference in our religious viewpoint. Mine is one of faith in the finished work of the Lord on my behalf and their viewpoint is from a lack of faith.

The "old hand" will be constantly interjecting from the sidelines - but I never address his points or even make eye contact with him or at least keep it minimal.

It doesn't take long for the old hand to usher the youngster off the property.

I always part company with an appeal to the unseasoned one that from this moment on they examine everything they are taught by their church in the light of the gospel of grace and salvation through faith alone which I have shared with them.

KingdomLeast said:

John 8:58 is said to be another strong proof that Christ is Jehovah, for the name Jehovah is said
by Trinitarians to mean “I Am” — “the Self-Existing One” — and Jesus in that verse says,
“Before Abraham was I am.’ Jesus, however, does not apply “l am” to himself as a title; he uses
the words as the subject and verb of an ordinary sentence, meaning simply that from before
Abraham’s time until the present he had had a continuous existence.

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Yet, when He said this of Himself the Pharisees got really mad and wanted to stone Him.

KingdomLeast said:

ord Jehovah, more correctly Yahweh, does not really mean “I Am” but “He Who
Becomes,” as J. B. Rotherham, an authority widely recognized among Protestants, has shown.
Yahweh is the third person, masculine, singular, imperfect tense of the root hawah, the sole
meaning of which is “become.” And so Jehovah, the Heavenly Father, is forever “He Who
Becomes,” the unfolding one, eternally revealing himself in creative power

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This is what he actually said.
What does God’s name mean?

The divine name comes from the verb 'ha-jah' or 'to become' in a causative form. It is written in the imperfect state and in the first-person singular. Therefore it means 'I cause to become'.

J.B. Rotherham gave a good explanation in his translation: "I Will Become whatsoever I please".


Taken from http://www.divine-name.info/explanation.htm

I know that in talking to Jehovah's Witnesses they will try to take you all over the Bible in their attempts to convince you of their doctrine. Alongside of the attempt to convince them to accept the veracity of the KJV (the only Bible they even remotely accept other than the one their cult provides, The NeWT (a serpent with legs)), it is good to show them Isaiah 28:13 and how it discourages us from reading the Bible with the perspective of "Here a little, there a little". That it teaches we ought to understand every book of the Bible by reading through each book in a valid translation; and that then and only then can the Holy Ghost teach us by our comparing of spiritual things with spiritual (1 Corinthians 2:13) because our faith is laid on the sure and solid foundation of faith in and a relationship with Jesus our Lord and Saviour (Isaiah 28:16).

I would say to them that they need to get a perspective on what Christians believe if they are going to be able to convert any; and therefore they need to read through entire books of the Bible in the kjv, apart from their perspective being colored by the NeWT; in order that they may see what is believed by Christians so that they can have more intelligent conversations with us. I would do this in the hopes that they might be able to see the reality of what the kjv says when it is read as a book and not colored by being given a teaching on what it means through "Here a little, there a little" theology as it is given to them through the Watchtower.

repeated post.

Can someone give me a quick, simple version of what it is that JW's believe? I admit I know very little about them.

MMDave3 said:

Can someone give me a quick, simple version of what it is that JW's believe? I admit I know very little about them.

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https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/...hovahs-witnesses-when-they-knock-at-the-door/

If you want to see there side of the story visit JW.org

Hmmm. I'm not so sure about some of those points.

KingdomLeast said:

John 8:58 is said to be another strong proof that Christ is Jehovah, for the name Jehovah is said
by Trinitarians to mean “I Am” — “the Self-Existing One” — and Jesus in that verse says,
“Before Abraham was I am.’ Jesus, however, does not apply “l am” to himself as a title; he uses
the words as the subject and verb of an ordinary sentence, meaning simply that from before
Abraham’s time until the present he had had a continuous existence. To make “I am” a title in
this sentence is grammatically absurd. For Jesus to have said, “Before Abraham was, I was,”
might have been mistaken by his hearers to mean that he had existed at some time in the remote
past, had ceased to exist for a time, and had come into existence again. To avoid this
misunderstanding, Jesus used the words, “I am,” to imply a continuous existence. Jesus existed
long before Abraham’s time: and he continued to exist after Abraham until, as the Word made
flesh he uttered those very words.

The word Jehovah, more correctly Yahweh, does not really mean “I Am” but “He Who
Becomes,” as J. B. Rotherham, an authority widely recognized among Protestants, has shown.
Yahweh is the third person, masculine, singular, imperfect tense of the root hawah, the sole
meaning of which is “become.” And so Jehovah, the Heavenly Father, is forever “He Who
Becomes,” the unfolding one, eternally revealing himself in creative power

Click to expand...

When Jesus said, Before Abraham was, I AM (breaking normal grammatical structure to do so: was He trying to make a point?), the Pharisees understood what He meant, and picked up stones to stone Him (John 8:59). Later, when they picked up stones a second time, Jesus asked them what good work they wanted to stone Him for. Their reply, "for a good work we stone thee not; but because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God."

If the scribes and Pharisees understood what Jesus was saying when He claimed to be the Great I AM; how is it that Jehovah's Witnesses today do not understand?

The answer: 2 Corinthians 4:3-4, 1 Corinthians 2:14, Acts of the Apostles 28:25-27.

Believing (with the heart) in the doctrine of the Deity of our Lord is an essential for salvation according to John 8:24 (if you understand the rest).

MMDave3 said:

Hmmm. I'm not so sure about some of those points.

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There main point is denying the deity of Jesus Christ.

MMDave3 said:

Can someone give me a quick, simple version of what it is that JW's believe? I admit I know very little about them.

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In short, they believe that Jesus isn't God, that there is no such thing as hell, in salvation by works, and that the 144,000 Jews of Revelation 7:1-8 are not Jewish but that in all reality they are the people in charge of the Watchtower Society. They also believe deeper in that Jesus is Michael the archangel.

friend of said:

How to shut down a JW 101

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How I shut down JW 101

Me, after listening to opening spiel: “Thank you for thinking of me and my family while you are working on behalf of your faith. I’m comfortable with where I am spiritually, but I never want to be spiritually complacent so I am always opening to hearing from others and their faith. I always want to better explore my beliefs and and the faith of others. I appreciate and respect that you felt me worthy enough to share your message with and I would love to offer you coffee/tea/water and cookies as thanks.”

I said this to a pair of old ladies at my house 10 years ago, they gave me a hug, a handshake, and once a month for 5-10 mi it’s graced me with a visit. We talked about our families, life, health, and had cookies and water. We did this for 3 years until 2007 before I moved away suddenly. When I moved where I am now in 2013 or 14, we got put on the JW rounds again and was thrilled to see one of the ladies was one of the ladies from my old place. She remembered me, I remembered her, there were hugs and tears and we caught up. She still visits once a month.

She knows where I stand, I know where she stands. But by seeing her as I did, through God I gained a friend and somebody I care about, and vice versa. I can believe what I believe without being confrontational or need to prove I’m right at the expense of proving them wrong.

Tropical Wilds said:

How I shut down JW 101

Me, after listening to opening spiel: “Thank you for thinking of me and my family while you are working on behalf of your faith. I’m comfortable with where I am spiritually, but I never want to be spiritually complacent so I am always opening to hearing from others and their faith. I always want to better explore my beliefs and and the faith of others. I appreciate and respect that you felt me worthy enough to share your message with and I would love to offer you coffee/tea/water and cookies as thanks.”

I said this to a pair of old ladies at my house 10 years ago, they gave me a hug, a handshake, and once a month for 5-10 mi it’s graced me with a visit. We talked about our families, life, health, and had cookies and water. We did this for 3 years until 2007 before I moved away suddenly. When I moved where I am now in 2013 or 14, we got put on the JW rounds again and was thrilled to see one of the ladies was one of the ladies from my old place. She remembered me, I remembered her, there were hugs and tears and we caught up. She still visits once a month.

She knows where I stand, I know where she stands. But by seeing her as I did, through God I gained a friend and somebody I care about, and vice versa. I can believe what I believe without being confrontational or need to prove I’m right at the expense of proving them wrong.

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What about the gospel?