Is it OK for Christians to protest against their political leaders?

JIMINZ

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How do we know that? I know that Jesus had a lot to say about the Jewish religious leaders, but He never criticised King Herod - although John the baptist took him to task because he married his brother's wife. Neither Jesus nor Paul ever protested against the Roman authorities at any time. Early Christians were persecuted because they politely refused to offer the pinch of incense in worship to the emperor, but they never staged any protests against the political leaders. So there is no support in the New Testament for it.

Some Christians protest against political authorities, especially those in Communist countries and they are persecuted, but I think they bring it upon themselves, because, without Scriptural authority they do it in the flesh.

Jesus' and Paul's response to the pagan practices of the time was to heal the sick, cast out demons, and get people converted. They did not employ any "rent-a-crowd" protests against the government of their time. This is why I believe that Christians today who arrange and support protests against the government are doing it in the flesh and not the Spirit and God won't support them.

This is different to the Jesus marches of the 1970s, because they were marches for Jesus and not against the government of the time.

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I agree with what you have said.

It should also be understood, anyone protesting against the Political Powers is Protesting against God Himself, and His Will for us.

Rom. 13:1
Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

1Ti.2:1
I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
1Ti 2:2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
 
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JIMINZ

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I don't hold to sola scriptura, so there's no particular verse guiding my thinking.

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Does anything God says guide your thinking.

Where did God say anything about legitimate reasons, or is that just what you think today?

Read my post # 23, then tell me where what you said is correct.
 
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JIMINZ

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I don't hold to sola scriptura, so there's no particular verse guiding my thinking.

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So because you don't hold with Sola Scriptura, therefore you don't know what God has to say on the matter at hand, it's just your opinion then?
 
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tulc

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I don't think that God will stop you protesting, and you won't go to hell because of it; but you may have to accept the natural consequences of it. If you ended up behind bars because you went too far and cried persecution, I can imagine the Lord coming to you, wagging His finger, and saying, "Silly boy. Don't blame Me. You brought it all upon yourself!" Then He will bail you out and you will have learned a very valuable lesson! :)
I'm 62, I've been accepting the consequences for my actions for a very long time now, but I agree it's not something to enter into lightly. I've been arrested before (twice for protesting abortion) but I've been involved in many demonstrations and protests over the years. Never lightly but always with the idea that helping my neighbors and the poor is more important then my playing it safe. :wave:
tulc(also? his day job is driving around Chicago all day everyday, so he's not someone who is easily freaked out by crazed people doing stupid things, which can happen sometimes in those situations) :sorry:
 
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Thedictator

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So...hiding Jews during WWII was a sin? That was illegal. Holding bible studies in some countries was/is illegal is that a sin? Sharing the gospel is illegal in some countries, is that a sin also? I'm just trying to find out where the line on the whole "I can't do something I think is the right thing to do, if it's illegal it's a sin." is. :wave:
tulc(likes to know those sorts of thing) :)

That is a good question, the answer is in the book of Acts, We are to break the law, if keeping the law violates Christ's Law or The Word of God.

1. Allowing Jews to be killed is a violation of the Word of God
2. Not sharing the Gospel is also a violation of the Word of God, that is why I support Christian teachers praying and sharing the Word of God in Public Schools even though it is illegal.
3. Protesting purely political issues, if protesting is illegal then yes it is a sin.

If you break any law of the Land that does not violate God's Word then you sin before God. ( Romans 13)
 
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Presbyterian Continuist

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I'm 62, I've been accepting the consequences for my actions for a very long time now, but I agree it's not something to enter into lightly. I've been arrested before (twice for protesting abortion) but I've been involved in many demonstrations and protests over the years. Never lightly but always with the idea that helping my neighbors and the poor is more important then my playing it safe. :wave:
tulc(also? his day job is driving around Chicago all day everyday, so he's not someone who is easily freaked out by crazed people doing stupid things, which can happen sometimes in those situations) :sorry:
Protesting abortion is quite different. You will see on another forum I was very outspoken against the murder of unborn children. :)

However, there are those whose God-given duty is to protest against the evils of our society. It is not for everyone, but some are especially anointed to have that ministry. It is not an easy one and not very understood by the majority of peace-loving Christians. It reminds me of the character "Valiant for Truth" in John Bunyan's Pilgrims Progress. He was the character covered in other people's blood and a sword in his hand.
 
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Thedictator

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Protesting abortion is quite different. You will see on another forum I was very outspoken against the murder of unborn children. :)

However, there are those whose God-given duty is to protest against the evils of our society. It is not for everyone, but some are especially anointed to have that ministry. It is not an easy one and not very understood by the majority of peace-loving Christians. It reminds me of the character "Valiant for Truth" in John Bunyan's Pilgrims Progress. He was the character covered in other people's blood and a sword in his hand.

I am as pro-life as anyone but if the Government passed a law against protesting, then if a Christian joins this protest he Violates God's Word and is sinning against God. Because the Government is not forcing you to abort children, if they did that would be a different matter all together.
 
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tulc

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That is a good question, the answer is in the book of Acts, We are to break the law, if keeping the law violates Christ's Law or The Word of God.

1. Allowing Jews to be killed is a violation of the Word of God
I don't see much, if any, difference between Germans killing Jews and innocent Palestinians being killed by Israelis. Both are wrong.


2. Not sharing the Gospel is also a violation of the Word of God, that is why I support Christian teachers praying and sharing the Word of God in Public Schools even though it is illegal.
If it's not done during class it's not illegal, and the conversation should be started only if the kids ask the teacher questions. :wave:


3. Protesting purely political issues, if protesting is illegal then yes it is a sin.
I'm curious: who gets to decide what's "purely political" and what's not? Because by that definition the founding fathers and the American Revolution was pretty sinful. :sorry:

If you break any law of the Land that does not violate God's Word then you sin be for God. ( Romans 13)
Hmmm...see above, because it looks like we're back to "who gets to decide that?". :scratch:
tulc(is kind of leaning toward him getting to decide for himself about that) :oldthumbsup:
 
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tulc

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Please give the Book, Chapter, and verse to support your statement.
Sure:
Matthew 25: 31-44 said:
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
tulc(who's goal is to be a sheep, not a goat) :)
 
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Thedictator

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I don't see much, if any, difference between Germans killing Jews and innocent Palestinians being killed by Israelis. Both are wrong.
How is breaking the law in one country going change the savage behavior in another country?


Not during class, and only if the kids ask the teacher questions. :wave:
Please give the Bible verse to support for doing this. Where is the verse in the Bible that says this?


I'm curious: who gets to decide what's "purely political" and what's not? Because by that definition the founding fathers and the American Revolution was pretty sinful. :sorry:
The Word of God does, If it's not in the Bible then it's purely political. The Founding Fathers may have sinned I do not know does not matter today.


Hmmm...see above, because it looks like we're back to "who gets to decide that?". :scratch:
tulc(is kind of leaning toward him getting to decide for himself about that)

Again is it violating something in the Bible, if not, you have no right as a Christian to break the Law and soil the name of Christ.

:oldthumbsup:
 
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Thedictator

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Sure:

tulc(who's goal is to be a sheep, not a goat) :)

I'm sorry but the verses you gave have nothing to do with a Christian obligation to protest.
I love how Liberals twist Scripture to fit their fancy.
 
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tulc

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I'm sorry but the verses you gave have nothing to do with a Christian obligation to protest.
You asked what Scripture I used, I don't think you asked if you'd to agree with me. See the difference? :scratch:

I love how Liberals twist Scripture to fit their fancy.
I love how non-liberals kind of think they get to decide if a Scripture is being twisted or not, so I guess we're even, huh? :wave:
tulc(is finishing his last cup of coffee for the night) :sigh:
 
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Yarddog

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Actually it is a Christian obligation.
It is our Christian obligation to live as Christians. That means living within the laws of the land.

We are fortunate to live in a country where we "the people" are the government, so speaking up to unjust laws or government officials is allowed, as long as we act like Christians in our protests.
 
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JackRT

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In any discussion of moral standards I think that it might be helpful to discuss the difference between sin and evil. But before attempting that, let us examine a similar situation in the secular realm. Governments at every level pass legislation that prohibits certain actions. We use the word 'crime' to refer to the deliberate breaking of such a law. However, is the commission of a crime the same thing as committing an evil act? Here we come up against just how we might define evil. For the purposes of this discussion let me give a very simple definition:

Evil --- any deliberate action or inaction which compromises the physical or psychological integrity of a human being.

This, of course, is a narrow definition and we could likely spend a very long time extending it and refining it. Let us leave that at least for the moment. The point that I am sneaking up on here is that 'what is evil is not necessarily a crime' and conversely 'what is a crime is not necessarily evil'. To me this is obvious but let me just attempt an illustration of each statement.

First, 'what is evil is not necessarily a crime'. By my definition above, the killing of another human being is to be regarded as an evil act. However, the law does not regard this as a crime if it is done in self defence or in war.

Second, 'what is a crime is not necessarily evil'. In Singapore, for example, it is a crime to chew gum. I think most would not quibble about this not being evil according to the above definition.

Can we make similar distinctions in the spiritual realm concerning sin and evil? I believe that we can. First, we need a working definition of sin. Let me suggest a very simple definition:

Sin --- doing that which is forbidden by a spiritual authority.

Once again, we could debate this definition. Perhaps the most controversial aspect of this definition might involve whether or not a spiritual authority, such as a church or a scripture, can actually express the will of a Deity. Setting that aside, we once again are faced with two problems. The point being that 'what is evil is not necessarily a sin' and conversely 'what is a sin is not necessarily evil'.

First, 'what is evil is not necessarily a sin'. I think that most would agree that to torture someone is an evil. However, if we just look at Christian scripture, I do not see any specific prohibition that would make torture a sin. A similar argument could be applied to female genital mutilation (circumcision).

Second, 'what is a sin is not necessarily evil'. Here, we can get into a very much more controversial debates. It is certainly true that Christian scripture regards homosexual actions as sinful. However, within society at large and within a number of Christian churches in particular, homosexual behaviour is no longer regarded as an evil in and of itself. It is also certainly true that Jewish scripture regards the breaking of the dietary laws as sinful and even an abomination. However, within society at large and within a number of Jewish traditions in particular, the breaking of the dietary laws is no longer regarded as an evil in and of itself.

The distinctions made here between crime and evil and also between sin and evil lead us in a real quandry for society at large. The western world has become, and is increasingly becoming, extremely diverse in language, culture and religion. There is also no real way of reversing this. Since different religions cannot agree on what is sin, I do not think that we can rely on religion entirely to inform our moral and ethical behaviour. Since what is regarded as sin has so often in the past led us into framing our laws to determine what is criminal, I think we need a new approach to the problem. We need an approach that avoids the imposition of one set of religious beliefs on society at large --- an approach broadly constructed on a concensus of what is evil and therefore what is criminal. Leave what is regarded as sin to the consciences of those in particular religious traditions.
 
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