Wherein I catch a profession YEC in a lie 2.0

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the iconoclast

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:D lol!

Thanks Iconoclast,

Yeah, sorry for the epic replies - so much to say, so little space to say it... I try to keep it short, but it seems everything answered creates three more questions for me... -_-

Thanks for taking the time to discuss, I do appreciate it, are we really nearly a year in?? omgoodness! 0.o - it has been enlightening though...

...and sorry again for the Epic replies too...

Hey hey bugs my fav :)

I read your whole post a few times and have tried to make a start.

My marvelous friend, it is just too long for my attention span to address each point. I do not want to give up as well, I believe we are no where yet finished!

I would still like to continue and I like you. :)

What do we do?

Cheers you beautiful diamond. :)
 
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Bugeyedcreepy

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Hey hey bugs my fav :)

I read your whole post a few times and have tried to make a start.

My marvelous friend, it is just too long for my attention span to address each point. I do not want to give up as well, I believe we are no where yet finished!

I would still like to continue and I like you. :)

What do we do?

Cheers you beautiful diamond. :)
Thanks for coming back to this - I'm still keen to address the entirety of this post, though again, if you feel you need to break it up and address a point at a time, I'm happy to do that too.

However you feel you can best address it, we can work with it from there.

Thanks!
 
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the iconoclast

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Thanks for coming back to this - I'm still keen to address the entirety of this post, though again, if you feel you need to break it up and address a point at a time, I'm happy to do that too.

However you feel you can best address it, we can work with it from there.

Thanks!

You are such a gentleman and a beautiful soul. I'll be in touch. Where ever you are I hope this day is a great and rewarding day for you.

Love you :)
 
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the iconoclast

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Hey hey bugs my dear. :)

Lets start with this one.

When we looks at odds in the trillions we are looking at extremely unlikely odds. When we look at odds 10 to power of one million we are looking at closer to impossible odds.

How do you explain a random formation of the universe, using odds that are close to impossible and in a frame work of 13 billion years?

Your response was the below highlighted section.

You don't do much science, do you? We have one universe to examine. Of that one universe, 100% of them have life in it. How do you know that the fundamental forces could be any different? and even if they could be different and the odds are infinitesimally slim, would you expect to find yourself in another of the quantzillions of universes that *couldn't* support life? or would you instead find that life only manifests in the one universe that supports life - life which in turn finds out that the odds are strikingly obscene that this one universe exists with all these fine tuned parameters, not knowing about those other quantzillions of universes that failed?

Firstly. I dont 'do much science'. I'm a construction worker and I have no higher education. I do read a lot and talk with many ppl. The main aspect of my job is problem solving. I do have the internet and a working brain.

Man if we met you would absolutely love me.

Thank you for that answer. Please excuse me.

The universe - all existing matter and space considered as a whole; the cosmos. The universe is believed to be at least 10 billion light years in diameter and contains a vast number of galaxies; it has been expanding since its creation in the Big Bang about 13 billion years ago.

How do you explain a random formation of the universe, using odds that are close to impossible and in a frame work of 13 billion years?

Cheers. Let's stay here for a bit. :)
 
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PsychoSarah

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How do you explain a random formation of the universe, using odds that are close to impossible and in a frame work of 13 billion years?

Cheers. Let's stay here for a bit. :)
Look, so little is understood about universe formation that the probability of our universe forming could have ranged anywhere from borderline impossible to inevitable. However, think of it this way: even if I had a ridiculously large deck of cards, and each card was unique, and I drew 5 cards, at what point would some combination of 5 cards become impossible? The answer is never; as long as I am drawing 5 cards, some combination of 5 cards will be drawn, and any combination of 5 cards will be equally likely. Basically, as far as we are concerned, the only way for our universe to be impossible is if NO universes ever existed. Which is obviously not the case.

As it is, the only universes that will contain organisms that have existential crises and question their origins will be ones that allow organisms to exist.
 
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the iconoclast

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Look, so little is understood about universe formation that the probability of our universe forming could have ranged anywhere from borderline impossible to inevitable. However, think of it this way: even if I had a ridiculously large deck of cards, and each card was unique, and I drew 5 cards, at what point would some combination of 5 cards become impossible? The answer is never; as long as I am drawing 5 cards, some combination of 5 cards will be drawn, and any combination of 5 cards will be equally likely. Basically, as far as we are concerned, the only way for our universe to be impossible is if NO universes ever existed. Which is obviously not the case.

As it is, the only universes that will contain organisms that have existential crises and question their origins will be ones that allow organisms to exist.

Hello you marvelous gem:)

Thank you for including your position. I bet you cant wait to see how this discussion goes. I too am filled with anticipation.

However, think of it this way: even if I had a ridiculously large deck of cards, and each card was unique, and I drew 5 cards, at what point would some combination of 5 cards become impossible?

If every card is different, how does one draw a 5 card combination that is repeated?



Cheers hey
 
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Bugeyedcreepy

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Firstly. I dont 'do much science'. I'm a construction worker and I have no higher education. I do read a lot and talk with many ppl. The main aspect of my job is problem solving. I do have the internet and a working brain.

Man if we met you would absolutely love me.

Thank you for that answer. Please excuse me.
No worries! I get on with quite a few people, so that is likely we'd get on well...
The universe - all existing matter and space considered as a whole; the cosmos. The universe is believed to be at least 10 billion light years in diameter and contains a vast number of galaxies; it has been expanding since its creation in the Big Bang about 13 billion years ago.
Actually, the universe is considered to be at least 92 billion light years across given we can see 13.4 billion years in any direction (so at least 26.8 billion light years of observable universe) plus expansion since that light left its point of origin 13.4 billion years ago at those outer limits. See https://www.space.com/24073-how-big-is-the-universe.html for a more thorough explanation.
How do you explain a random formation of the universe, using odds that are close to impossible and in a frame work of 13 billion years?

Cheers. Let's stay here for a bit. :)
No worries! :D

Everything in this universe follows the laws of Physics - these involve matter converting to energy (and energy converting to matter in the first place too), chemical and nuclear reactions and gravity. All of this (early star formation, planetary formation, chemical reactions and biochemical interactions & life) conforms with the conditions and processes of this Universe that are well understood. None of this is a mystery to us, though specifics aren't 100% in some areas such as abiogenesis.

Now, in a game of numbers, just in the observable universe we can see, there are trillions upon trillions of galaxies, each with billions of stars, and as we know just from looking around our local neighbourhood, approximately one in ten stars have an earth-like planet in their habitable zone. That a tremendously huge amount of earth-like planets for life to possibly exist on them - and that's just for supporting life as we know it - there could be other forms of life which could exist that we are yet to know about... We already know that organic compounds (i.e. amino acids) form in space (and have even fallen to earth - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murchison_meteorite ), and have formed spontaneously from sterile non-organic (or prebiotic) compounds commonly found in this universe, so of the uncountable number of earth analogues in this galaxy alone, let alone the rest of the universe, it's highly likely that there will be life out there somewhere yet to be found. That's the great thing about highly improbable odds - in a universe this big, highly improbable things happen all the time.

Is this what you meant to address, or were you speaking of the beginning of the Universe, for which scientifically, we have little to no understanding of?
 
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the iconoclast

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No worries! I get on with quite a few people, so that is likely we'd get on well...

Hey hey bugs. :)

I believe it.

Is this what you meant to address, or were you speaking of the beginning of the Universe, for which scientifically, we have little to no understanding of?

This post is extremely valuable. I will be taking note of this one my illustrious friend.

Everything in this universe follows the laws of Physics

Interesting. An absolute certainty.

Now, in a game of numbers, just in the observable universe we can see, there are trillions upon trillions of galaxies, each with billions of stars, and as we know just from looking around our local neighbourhood, approximately one in ten stars have an earth-like planet in their habitable zone. That a tremendously huge amount of earth-like planets for life to possibly exist on them - and that's just for supporting life as we know it - there could be other forms of life which could exist that we are yet to know about... We already know that organic compounds (i.e. amino acids) form in space (and have even fallen to earth - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murchison_meteorite ), and have formed spontaneously from sterile non-organic (or prebiotic) compounds commonly found in this universe, so of the uncountable number of earth analogues in this galaxy alone, let alone the rest of the universe, it's highly likely that there will be life out there somewhere yet to be found.

I have some real fresh news. I found an australian link too.

Aug 1 2018. That fresh!!!

Habitable planets may be rarer than we thought. And it’s all about primordial soup

WE have discovered 3663 (and counting) planets around distant stars. About 50 are in the ‘Goldilocks zone’ which supports liquid water. A new study has whittled the number believed habitable down to just three.

And Earth is one of them - observable universe.



https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&...gQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw2H2NrJpkrqWZQtBvXuhUOE&cf=1


What say you?

That's the great thing about highly improbable odds - in a universe this big, highly improbable things happen all the time.

Everything in the universe follows the laws of physics. How do you explain the random part? - catalyst

For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.

Cheers hey. :)
 
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Bugeyedcreepy

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I have some real fresh news. I found an australian link too.

Aug 1 2018. That fresh!!!

Habitable planets may be rarer than we thought. And it’s all about primordial soup

WE have discovered 3663 (and counting) planets around distant stars. About 50 are in the ‘Goldilocks zone’ which supports liquid water. A new study has whittled the number believed habitable down to just three.

And Earth is one of them - observable universe.

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&...gQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw2H2NrJpkrqWZQtBvXuhUOE&cf=1

What say you?
Okay, so again with the numbers - let's assume for a moment we only have one planet for every star (far more than that, of course...), and let's round down the planets we know of to 3,000 (so we can do an even calculation of 1 in 1000 planets are not only habitable, but theoretically life-supporting):

Well, considering we have a calculated population of 10^22 stars in the observable universe, that still leaves around 10^19 (i.e. around 10,000,000,000,000,000,000) not only habitable, but theoretically life-supporting planets in this universe, for which we've so far identified three including earth.
Everything in the universe follows the laws of physics. How do you explain the random part? - catalyst
Not sure what you mean here? Random things still happen - quantum fluctuations and virtual particles come to mind - we can predict the rate of radioactive decay of a specific element for example, but couldn't determine which particular atom in that element will decay, nor why.
For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.
Not sure what you mean by this?
Cheers hey. :)
Bye for now! :)
 
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the iconoclast

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Okay, so again with the numbers - let's assume for a moment we only have one planet for every star (far more than that, of course...), and let's round down the planets we know of to 3,000 (so we can do an even calculation of 1 in 1000 planets are not only habitable, but theoretically life-supporting):

Hey there bugs. :)

Well good news my dear friend... We do not need to assume at this moment. The latest news from your authority is in.

WE have discovered 3663 (and counting) planets around distant stars. About 50 are in the ‘Goldilocks zone’ which supports liquid water. A new study has whittled the number believed habitable down to just three.

Earth is one of them. That means there are only 2 planets - in observable space - that so far meet the criteria as habitable.

We do not need to relate to theory or assumptions. We have practical application in place. There seems to be more to the recipe of life than just light and water. The right chemical reaction seems integral and a formula must be satisfied.

To conclude, this response does not cut the mustard. When we consider your answer it still leaves us with 3 planets and we do not know how possible it is with the other 2.

Well, considering we have a calculated population of 10^22 stars in the observable universe, that still leaves around 10^19 (i.e. around 10,000,000,000,000,000,000) not only habitable, but theoretically life-supporting planets in this universe, for which we've so far identified three including earth.

Please excuse me. What do you mean here? Im not sure what you mean 'leaves 10^19' that are habitable?

Ps
Iam aware of mathematics and what that number represents. :)

Not sure what you mean here? Random things still happen - quantum fluctuations and virtual particles come to mind -

Quite the opposite! Quantum fluctuations aka virtual particles are what prevent a closed region of space from furnishing information.

Not random

Your mate Allan Steinhardt, PhD, Author "Radar in the Quantum Limit",Formerly DARPA's Chief Scientist,Fellow.

There seems to be specific pattern, purpose, or objective. As you said before the universe follows the law.

we can predict the rate of radioactive decay of a specific element for example, but couldn't determine which particular atom in that element will decay, nor why.

That does not equate to random.

Can i ask you a question? Do you believe that there is no supreme force - ie God - behind the formation of the universe.

Im curious, What do you believe?

Not sure what you mean by this?

That was for illustration purposes. How about this.

In context here. The law is a statement of fact, deduced from observation, to the effect that a particular natural or scientific phenomenon always occurs if certain conditions are present.

As you said. Everything in the universe follows the laws of physics. An absolute certainty.

This brings up a question for you to ponder. Were the laws there at the formation of the universe? What came first the formation of the universe or the laws that govern it?

When we consider the beginning of the Universe, "scientifically, we have little to no understanding".

Cheers my dear. :)
 
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Bugeyedcreepy

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Hey there bugs. :)

Well good news my dear friend... We do not need to assume at this moment.
We can extrapolate though based on the very limited set we have on hand.
The latest news from your authority is in.
I don't have an authority.
WE have discovered 3663 (and counting) planets around distant stars. About 50 are in the ‘Goldilocks zone’ which supports liquid water. A new study has whittled the number believed habitable down to just three.

Earth is one of them. That means there are only 2 planets - in observable space - that so far meet the criteria as habitable.
The scope of what you call Observable space you speak of that we can accurately discern the existence of exoplanets is literally within a few thousand light years of Earth in favourable conditions at best, this amounts to a fraction of stars in just this galaxy alone. This is also not 100% guaranteed that we can find all planets within this search area and many more exoplanets will go unnoticed even though they might orbit stars close to us.

You're right that to date we've only found two that this particular study applies exacting standards to, but to then declare that there are only two other life supporting and theoretically abiogenesis capable planets in this entire universe is disingenuous at best.
We do not need to relate to theory or assumptions. We have practical application in place. There seems to be more to the recipe of life than just light and water. The right chemical reaction seems integral and a formula must be satisfied.
Wait, the research you quoted is itself a hypothesis on the most likely place to find life - it isn't a Theory in any scientific sense. Also, what was practically applied in place? You'll find that was the theoretical framework of what we understand might be required to kickstart life in the first place. This is not a hard and fast rule by any stretch - it's supposed to be an indicator on where we would most likely find life if we could ever go look for it.
To conclude, this response does not cut the mustard. When we consider your answer it still leaves us with 3 planets and we do not know how possible it is with the other 2.
"cut the mustard"? Firstly as mentioned, the search for exoplanets is a very limited and local segment of this particular arm of our particular milky way galaxy and is by no means, not even remotely, the entirety of the exoplanets that exist in this universe. More on this below.
Please excuse me. What do you mean here? Im not sure what you mean 'leaves 10^19' that are habitable?

Ps
Iam aware of mathematics and what that number represents. :)
As mentioned above, the exoplanets we know of so far with literally a handful of exceptions, is a very, very small patch in our local arm of this one galaxy. when we extrapolate what we now know about exoplanets, we now understand there are hundreds of billions in just our galaxy alone, this also applies to the habitable worlds percentage as well, even at less than 1 in 1000, that's still hundreds of millions of abiogenesis life supporting planets in just this milky way galaxy alone. From https://www.forbes.com/sites/billre...ount-on-it-say-space-scientists/#41d66f7b4146 :

Already, astronomers have discovered thousands. As of New Year’s Day 2018, NASA has confirmed the existence of 3,572 exoplanets, with 5,078 more awaiting final verification.

But scientists say they've barely begun. And the number of exoworlds they estimate is astounding.

"There are hundreds of billions of planets in the Milky Way galaxy," says Jean-Luc Margot, professor and chair of UCLA’s Earth, Planetary, and Space Sciences department.

To put that in perspective: imagine counting them all, at the rate of one per second. That task, says Margot, would take "about 3,000 years" to finish.

Most astronomers now say the vast majority of stars have at least a few planets around them.

They once thought the opposite. Exoplanets were believed nearly nonexistent. Our solar system, with eight major worlds, was considered a quirk.

Then the Kepler Space Telescope, launched by NASA in 2009, stared at a patch of sky between constellations Cygnus and Lyra—and saw exoplanets all over the place.​

...again, this is just in our Galaxy alone - never mind the trillions upon trillions of other galaxies in this universe too - that's what the extrapolated number was in aid of...
Quite the opposite! Quantum fluctuations aka virtual particles are what prevent a closed region of space from furnishing information.

Not random

Your mate Allan Steinhardt, PhD, Author "Radar in the Quantum Limit",Formerly DARPA's Chief Scientist,Fellow.

There seems to be specific pattern, purpose, or objective. As you said before the universe follows the law.
Firstly, not my mate, I don't know Allan Steinhardt. Secondly, I grant that quantum fluctuations are not the best example of randomness, but it is considered random as it relates to classical statistical mechanics given we can at best only provide a probabilistic distribution (think double slit experiment, etc.)
That does not equate to random.

Can i ask you a question? Do you believe that there is no supreme force - ie God - behind the formation of the universe.

Im curious, What do you believe?
I'm not sure - but the universe seems to operate without the assumption of any Gods. We also have mathematical models that indicate a multiverse, though this is just an untestable idea currently.
That was for illustration purposes. How about this.

In context here. The law is a statement of fact, deduced from observation, to the effect that a particular natural or scientific phenomenon always occurs if certain conditions are present.

As you said. Everything in the universe follows the laws of physics. An absolute certainty.

This brings up a question for you to ponder. Were the laws there at the formation of the universe? What came first the formation of the universe or the laws that govern it?

When we consider the beginning of the Universe, "scientifically, we have little to no understanding".
So, I didn't say that "Everything in the universe follows the laws of physics" is an absolute certainty, especially since I've also stated that these laws we understand and have models for tend to break down at the very beginning (within planck time). The Laws I mention are descriptive, not prescriptive - that's to say, we call them Laws only insofar as we have no (or only very fringe, and explainable) examples that violate them.
 
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the iconoclast

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We can extrapolate though based on the very limited set we have on hand.

Hey hey bugs my dear. :)

So we can draw a conclusion by assumption, we can assume that existing trends will continue. We can accept it is true or as certain to happen, without proof?

I don't have an authority.

This reply interests me a great deal my treasure as you have just divorced yourself. You are now alone and I do not think you realise the error. You have just taken away your measuring tape.

Are you your own authority my friend?

The scope of what you call Observable space you speak of that we can accurately discern the existence of exoplanets is literally within a few thousand light years of Earth in favourable conditions at best, this amounts to a fraction of stars in just this galaxy alone. This is also not 100% guaranteed that we can find all planets within this search area and many more exoplanets will go unnoticed even though they might orbit stars close to us.

My friend, have you considered this same answer re observable space and considered this answer for God. The conditions were not right, you may have not observed enough or did not know where to look? :)

You're right that to date we've only found two that this particular study applies exacting standards to, but to then declare that there are only two other life supporting and theoretically abiogenesis capable planets in this entire universe is disingenuous at best.

By all means search and keep searching. I have been found. :)

You seem to have a feeling of expectation and desire for a particular thing to happen - using assumptions.

Is that line of thinking an absolute certainty?

Wait, the research you quoted is itself a hypothesis on the most likely place to find life - it isn't a Theory in any scientific sense. Also, what was practically applied in place? You'll find that was the theoretical framework of what we understand might be required to kickstart life in the first place. This is not a hard and fast rule by any stretch - it's supposed to be an indicator on where we would most likely find life if we could ever go look for it.

There was a practical application. :)

Practical application is the use of something for a reasonable purpose. An example of practical application is using a school math lesson to figure out the total cost of items while grocery shopping.

I agree with you that it is a hypothesis and an indicator. Like most modern science it will more than likely be superceded.

I posted this article to see how you would react my dear. :)

As mentioned above, the exoplanets we know of so far with literally a handful of exceptions, is a very, very small patch in our local arm of this one galaxy. when we extrapolate what we now know about exoplanets, we now understand there are hundreds of billions in just our galaxy alone, this also applies to the habitable worlds percentage as well, even at less than 1 in 1000, that's still hundreds of millions of abiogenesis life supporting planets in just this milky way galaxy alone. From https://www.forbes.com/sites/billre...ount-on-it-say-space-scientists/#41d66f7b4146 :


Already, astronomers have discovered thousands. As of New Year’s Day 2018, NASA has confirmed the existence of 3,572 exoplanets, with 5,078 more awaiting final verification.


But scientists say they've barely begun. And the number of exoworlds they estimate is astounding.


"There are hundreds of billions of planets in the Milky Way galaxy," says Jean-Luc Margot, professor and chair of UCLA’s Earth, Planetary, and Space Sciences department.


To put that in perspective: imagine counting them all, at the rate of one per second. That task, says Margot, would take "about 3,000 years" to finish.


Most astronomers now say the vast majority of stars have at least a few planets around them.


They once thought the opposite. Exoplanets were believed nearly nonexistent. Our solar system, with eight major worlds, was considered a quirk.


Then the Kepler Space Telescope, launched by NASA in 2009, stared at a patch of sky between constellations Cygnus and Lyra—and saw exoplanets all over the place.

...again, this is just in our Galaxy alone - never mind the trillions upon trillions of other galaxies in this universe too - that's what the extrapolated number was in aid of...

Please excuse me my friend. This reply is pointless, you have no authority remember?

What these people say means nothing to you and cannot be used.

Firstly, not my mate, I don't know Allan Steinhardt. Secondly, I grant that quantum fluctuations are not the best example of randomness, but it is considered random as it relates to classical statistical mechanics given we can at best only provide a probabilistic distribution (think double slit experiment, etc.

No. It is not considered random.

Quite the opposite! Quantum fluctuations aka virtual particles are what prevent a closed region of space from furnishing information.

Do you believe the formation of the universe was random with nothing behind it? :)

I'm not sure - but the universe seems to operate without the assumption of any Gods. We also have mathematical models that indicate a multiverse, though this is just an untestable idea currently.

You are not sure what you believe? That sounds unfortunate.

Are you certain that Jesus Christ is not the Son of God?

So, I didn't say that "Everything in the universe follows the laws of physics" is an absolute certainty, especially since I've also stated that these laws we understand and have models for tend to break down at the very beginning (within planck time). The Laws I mention are descriptive, not prescriptive - that's to say, we call them Laws only insofar as we have no (or only very fringe, and explainable) examples that violate them.

You certainly did. Post 148

"Everything in this universe follows the laws of Physics - these involve matter converting to energy (and energy converting to matter in the first place too), chemical and nuclear reactions and gravity."

Everything - all things. A thing refered to no matter what.

You accept extrapolation, yet you wont accept an absolute certainty. You have no authority and you are not sure. What you know now may be wrong in a couple of months and you will always be searching.

What is really stopping you from coming to Christ?

Cheers
 
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Bugeyedcreepy

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Hey hey bugs my dear. :)

So we can draw a conclusion by assumption, we can assume that existing trends will continue. We can accept it is true or as certain to happen, without proof?
It isn't assumption, we have an established dataset that demonstrates this probability with a fairly high accuracy. What reason do we have to not think what we see locally will be seen throughout the universe?
This reply interests me a great deal my treasure as you have just divorced yourself. You are now alone and I do not think you realise the error. You have just taken away your measuring tape.

Are you your own authority my friend?
Nope, I haven't divorced myself from anything but I can assess much of the evidence in support of a proposition for myself and I don't have to take someone's word as "Truth" - I can always make my own observations and come to my own conclusions based on my understanding. This is not to say I don't take others' word for things, because I do - often these things I take at face value are for things that have little to no impact on my outlook, or that have followed a rigorous process where both that process and the data/observations are available to me if I wanted to make my own assessments. Usually I can see the evidence for myself, I don't have to take someone's word for it.

Do you have an authority? How do you assess what such an authority says for truth and/or accuracy? What would you do if you found a discrepancy in your authority?
My friend, have you considered this same answer re observable space and considered this answer for God. The conditions were not right, you may have not observed enough or did not know where to look? :)
Of course. Here's the difference:
Observable stars: trillions upon trillions (10^22)
Observable exoplanets that we can detect: ~ 3700 (in just our very local neighborhood alone)
Observable exoplanets that could support life: ~52 (or about 1 goldilocks exoplanet for every 10 stars we can measure)
Observable exoplanets that could support abiogenesis as well as life: 3 (in just our very local neighborhood)
and then...

Observable Gods: 0
Observed Angels: 0
Confirmed Miracles: 0
Observed religions claiming to be the one true religion: tens of thousands
Religions verified as the one true religion: 0​
By all means search and keep searching. I have been found. :)

You seem to have a feeling of expectation and desire for a particular thing to happen - using assumptions.

Is that line of thinking an absolute certainty?
What feeling of expectation and desire for a particular thing to happen do I have, and what assumptions am I using
There was a practical application. :)

Practical application is the use of something for a reasonable purpose. An example of practical application is using a school math lesson to figure out the total cost of items while grocery shopping.

I agree with you that it is a hypothesis and an indicator. Like most modern science it will more than likely be superceded.

I posted this article to see how you would react my dear. :)
Cool.
Please excuse me my friend. This reply is pointless, you have no authority remember?

What these people say means nothing to you and cannot be used.
This is just ignorance and deliberate disrespect to state this. I can respect the achievements of another human being without having to worship them as an authority. What your false dichotomy fallacy here is that either you are without authority in some nihilistic fatuous existence, or you're a sycophant who just follows and vacuously regurgitates whatever your "Authority" dictates to you. Which one are you? I don't believe in such polar absolutes, I have knowledge and can source relevant information, data, observations to support it, so if you can't have an intelligent conversation and address the points I make, then we can forget this and you can continue your mindless existence believing your false dichotomy fallacy to be accurate.
No. It is not considered random.

Quite the opposite! Quantum fluctuations aka virtual particles are what prevent a closed region of space from furnishing information.
You're talking in relation to "information" in a closed region of space, not the state of these particles popping in and out of existence. From https://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/11/29/virtual_particle_real_random_number/ : “While the evolution of a quantum function is deterministic, the outcome of a particular measurement on a state is not”.
Do you believe the formation of the universe was random with nothing behind it? :)
Well, I don't know - I don't have the relevant knowledge and information to really have an opinion on that. I accept the most popular theory of the Big Bang as the best current explanation of how the Universe has come to be what it is now, and that follows all the well-understood laws we know about, no intervention there from what we can see...
You are not sure what you believe? That sounds unfortunate.
I prefer "honest", and why would that be unfortunate?
Are you certain that Jesus Christ is not the Son of God?
Are you certain that Mohammed is not Allah's final messenger and prophet?
You certainly did. Post 148

"Everything in this universe follows the laws of Physics - these involve matter converting to energy (and energy converting to matter in the first place too), chemical and nuclear reactions and gravity."

Everything - all things. A thing refered to no matter what.
You seem to be overly literal - I still didn't say it was an absolute certainty and I didn't mean it to either, so if it makes it clearer for you, I'll rephrase it to say "Everything in this universe seems to follow the laws of Physics" - better? Either way, I haven't observed it 'not' following the laws of Physics, so am fairly certain it won't be demonstrated false, but if it does then I'll reassess my position accordingly.
You accept extrapolation, yet you wont accept an absolute certainty. You have no authority and you are not sure. What you know now may be wrong in a couple of months and you will always be searching.
and this is an honest position, don't you agree? Your description is not entirely accurate, but only insofar as you are unbelievably literal to the point of unreasonableness - for example, I'm absolutely certain I exist and I'm also absolutely certain I'm not an omnicient God too. I can tentatively accept a subject matter expert/authority, but no authority is an unquestionable authority. I'm unsure insofar as it would be impossible to be 100% certain about everything and we are fallible beings, we can see things that weren't there, we can remember things incorrectly, we can be fooled and are prone to misunderstanding things we witness first hand. I hope I'll always be searching, I seek knowledge and understanding of the universe around me, so if I have nothing to look for or learn then it would be a very boring existence indeed.

So tell me, are you absolutely certain? Do you have an unquestionable Authority? Are you 100% sure about everything? Will everything you know now be forever unchanged? Will you have nothing to search for one day, or do you not search now
What is really stopping you from coming to Christ?
Possibly the same thing that's stopping you from coming to Shiva, or Thor, or Allah, etc. What's stopping you from coming to those Gods?
 
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Bumble Bee

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