God has appointed us to tribulation (although He has not appointed us to wrath).

In context of 1 Thessalonians 5:9 (For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ), which Calvary Chapel uses doctrinally to teach a pre-tribulation rapture, is 1 Thessalonians 3:3-4:

That no man should be moved by these afflictions: for yourselves know that we are appointed thereunto. For verily, when we were with you, we told you before, that we should suffer tribulation: even as it came to pass, and ye know.

I would conclude that tribulation is not wrath; and therefore the Great Tribulation is not Great Wrath.

The wrath of God therefore, impaho, would be hell and then the lake of fire.

In Daniel 12:7 it is written,

And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever and ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half: and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

Let the church rise up and be holy salt and light in this world once again! When the power of the holy people has been scattered, the end will come.

Notice that the end does not come when the holy people are taken out of the earth, but when their power has been scattered!

It says in Ezekiel 21:3, And say to the land of Israel, Thus saith the LORD: Behold, I am against thee, and will draw forth my sword out of its sheath, and will cut off from thee the righteous and the wicked.

Therefore Chuck Smith's argument, that the church will be taken out of the earth because in Genesis Abraham contended for Lot saying, That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked, and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee. Shall not the judge of all the earth do right? is not a perfectly valid argument; because God reserves the right to slay the righteous with the wicked and to bring judgment on the righteous as well as the wicked (see Psalms 135:14, Hebrews 10:30).

Nevertheless the time of Great Tribulation will be a time of war on the saints from the hand of the Antichrist; not the wrath of God, except for the latter half in which God will pour out His bowl judgments on those who took the mark of the beast and worshipped his image. It will be a time of Great Tribulation for all men (and those who have never read the Book of Revelation may indeed be oblivious to this fact until the final 3 1/2 years hits). Question: If the tribulation lasts only seven years; and the church (those who are mature in the Lord) are taken out, then the remaining people who become tribulation saints are basically new believers in the time of tribulation. How then do they gain the wisdom to withstand the Antichrist and his power? How do they stand against the onslaught of the evil one? Wickedness will be great on the earth in that time; demons as well as men will be working to destroy the saints and any influence we might have.

Is it not more plausible to believe that the church will be here to fight the Antichrist in the time of Great Tribulation? If the church is indeed taken out, the remaining people who will convert and become tribulation saints will not be very mature in the Lord and it is highly likely that they will be sitting ducks for all of the spiritual warfare that they will have to go through on top of everything else happening around them in the physical realm. Where will they find the time to read their Bibles running from the attempts of the Antichrist to force the mark of the beast upon them? How will they utilize the sword of the Spirit against the demonic onslaught that will be hitting them on top of this? How will they be able to don the breastplate of righteousness or raise the shield of faith?

Now there is a strong possibility that there is a pre-tribulation rapture; because Jesus told the church to pray for it in Luke 21:36. And if that be so, those who are left behind will be sitting ducks. The Bible also basically teaches that the Holy Spirit will be taken from the earth at that time (although the 144,000 Jews of every tribe except Dan will be sealed by Him on their foreheads). So then if the Holy Spirit will be taken out, so will the church. Because the church is sealed by the Holy Spirit according to Ephesians 1:13-14; and so, if the Holy Spirit leaves He would have to take the church with Him. Then He will seal the Jewish people because the times of the Gentiles will be fulfilled.

Jesus said, In this world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world. John 16:33b.

Now the teaching goes that the church will undergo tribulation; but not Great Tribulation.

Now read Luke 21:36. If you heed what Jesus says to you in that verse, you may not have to go through the Great Tribulation at all.

But in the case that the church is on the earth during that time, ought not we, as the church, to stand up for righteousness and be salt and light in this world once again, that we might prolong the time when these things will begin to happen; for our own sake?

In Amos 5:18-20 it is written, Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! To what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light. As if a man did flee from a lion, and a bear met him: or went into his house, and leaned on a wall, and a serpent bit him. Shall not the day of the LORD be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?

Begin to pray that the power of the holy people may be reestablished; and that it is not now fully scattered! There is no guarantee that you yourself will be caught up in a pre-tribulation rapture; yes you should pray that it will be so: but everyone ought to live as though it could happen at any time with the real possibility that you might be left behind; or, that the rapture itself will not happen until everyone has made a decision concerning things like the RFID chip, whether to receive it in their right hand or forehead or not: because we all know what the Book of Revelation says about these things, don't we? And therefore to receive the RFID chip (or anything like it) would be to worship satan or at the very least to spurn the warnings given by the Lord concerning receiving such a thing.

vinsight4u said:

I'll read your post more later. I agree there will not be a rapture till the time of the great tribulation ends. That is a time of Satan's wrath, not God's. God's wrath will be the full vials on the wicked.

Luke 14:14 shows the resurrection of the just takes place at the time of reward.
Revelation 11:18 shows that reward time begins in the time of the 7th trumpet.
We are told that the dead in Christ will rise first. They will not be rising before the 7th trumpet sounds.

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I agree; and to me this places the rapture of the church at mid-trib or pre-wrath (impaho).

It could be that the answer to the prayer Jesus told us to pray in Luke 21:36 is that the age of grace might be prolonged so that we might be dead and in the grave when the time of Great Tribulation happens.

That some of the church may have to go through it does not mean that all of the church has to go through it; that is not a logical statement. For those who have gone on to be with the Lord do not have to go through it but those who are alive during that time in history may have to, simply because it is that time in history that was prophesied in the Book of Revelation.

Also, if you read the OP more carefully, you will see that I have not denied that the church may indeed be caught up pre-trib.

JIMINZ said:

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Are you able to explain why Jesus would tell someone who would in all likelihood be dead in 30-40 yrs.

Luk 21:34-36
34) And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.
35) For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
36) Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

When all of it wouldn't be taking place for more than 2,000 yrs in the future?

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As I said, the answer to us praying that prayer that Jesus gave us in Luke 21:36 might be the prolonging of the age of grace, so that we will be dead and gone when the Great Tribulation finally hits.

The moment the church neglects to obey Jesus concerning this verse, even those in the church may have to live through the experience of having that prayer not answered. I'll ask you: Is Jesus talking to the church in Luke 21:36? Why does He want the church to pray that we will be counted worthy to escape those things? Is it not because if we don't pray thusly, we will be called upon to endure those things? If we fail to pray Luke 21:36, can we presume that God will answer as though we did pray? If we do not watch, He will come as a thief, and we will not know what hour He will come upon us (Revelation 3:3). If we don't know the hour after the fact, doesn't that mean that we were not aware of it when He came? That would indicate to me that we were not partakers of the rapture, because we did not watch (although the rapture itself is very likely yet future, and we ought not to be troubled by word or by spirit or by letter as from the apostles, that the day of Christ is come; for that day shall not come except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; who exalteth himself above everything that is called God or that is worshipped, so that he himself sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God).

KingdomLeast said:

"For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our
Lord Jesus Christ" - 1 Thess. 5:9

We should always keep in mind that we have been uniquely blessed in that God called us. The blind world is in darkness, but we are in the light. Like the Thessalonians, we know about the times and the seasons. Paul was saying in effect, “Knowing these things, you have remained in the truth and are faithful to it; you have not gone back into the nominal systems or the world; you are still soldiers of Christ.” His encouragement to the Thessalonians should be an encouragement to us.

We have been appointed to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. All others, by implication, are appointed to wrath, to the Time of Trouble. In the period of wrath and destruction that is coming, the world will be in trouble.

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That scripture was mentioned in the OP. It is the context of that scripture, mentioned in the OP, that we are to take into account.