Can We Discuss Spiritual Abuse?

Small churches that are independent are prone to this sort of thing.

FireDragon76 said:

Small churches that are independent are prone to this sort of thing.

Click to expand...

Bingo! Went to one shortly after I was first saved and it was an eye opener. You had to have a certain Bible, a certain haircut, and so on. Needless to say, I left after only a short season. Find a new Church and shake the dust off your shoes at that one. (Luke 9:5)

P.S. A good book about Heaven that got me to thinking more "out of the box", is Heaven, by Randy Alcorn. Don't agree with all his conclusions, and he is redundant, but a very important book, IMO.
https://www.amazon.com/Heaven-Randy...preST=_SY344_BO1,204,203,200_QL70_&dpSrc=srch

it sounds like it could well have been a situation that had some spiritual abuse aspects to it.

i was in a situation that i believe had aspects of spiritual abuse to it years ago. it was not a full on cult either just a church group that went a bit wrong and ended up messed up by it in lots of ways.

it took me a long time to get over it and find God again. God never lost me but i was spiritually hurt, damaged as you said and that took time to heal from spiritually as well as mentally and emotionally. i'm really glad you got out of that situation.

A book that really helped understand what had happened to me and therefore start to heal was 'The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse' by D Johnson and J VanVonderen.
i found this very helpful for being able to identify specific things that were wrong that happened in the group i was in.

It took me a while before i went back into a church as well. when i did i still had problems with certain verses many years later because they were misused in that group so when they were mentioned or used it would bring back feelings fear etc, but theres not so much of that now. certain songs as well i couldnt sing and would want to walk out when they were sung, that has gradually gotten better too. God has healed me slowly but surely, and God has been very very gentle with my soul. a bruised reed He will not break.

daffers234 said:

Yes, yes to everything you said. I spent about a year not attending anywhere and then found a new church. Actually I went through much of what you went through when I began attending a new small-group through that current church. (I don't want to derail everything with a dog discussion here, but if you don't mind, I'll PM you.)

The difference in reactions between the new group and the old house-church were like night and day, and were confusing to me because I was finally in healthy, loving friendships. I'm glad to be in the group now.

I chose to forgive that pastor long ago and hold no bitterness towards him. Yes, the things he did and said still hurt me. But I understand that forgiveness DOES NOT mean that what he did was OK. On the contrary, it acknowledges the wrongs and hurts, but I am not holding them against him. It's just that the mental/emotional/spiritual abuse I underwent still affects me and I am still processing what happened, even years later.

I'd like to keep the topic on spiritual abuse, if possible. But I am open to discussing more details too, especially if it'll help folks understand my positions.

Again, thanks everyone!

Click to expand...

I can say this right now and i believe all is not forgiven it still eating at you,to cary this around for over a year is not a sign of forgiveness you must see this man on a regular basis or there is more to it.I one
Whom believes you have to face your fears to get over them hurt is a type of fear for instance what does he really think of me has he spread rumors or lied about what really happened.Or you might have liked it there and wished you hadnt left this all sounds strange to me over a simple dog story like this is
Bizarre all the way being attacked by a Pastor for that small matter you need to move on a question for you is that Pastor still overseeing that congregation?

There may have been some spiritual abuse, however you define that, but what you described was physical abuse.

PaulCyp1 said:

There may have been some spiritual abuse, however you define that, but what you described was physical abuse.

Click to expand...

Bingo. As dogs in heaven was just an uneducated guess, the phyisical abuse is all I noticed as well.

daffers234 said:

I have some questions regarding spiritual abuse, and am not sure where to post them, so here goes.

I was abused mentally/emotionally at my last church. I believe too that I was under a form of spiritual abuse. The church was a small house church. I left for good after I was grabbed and pushed by the pastor, but I was already damaged. I can give more details as necessary, but that may derail the topic here. I'm mostly trying to figure out what spiritual abuse is, so I can clarify my experiences and get help as needed.

I tried to look up information on spiritual abuse but found very little. What I found was not very helpful and sometimes discussed severe cult situations. Has anyone else either experienced spiritual abuse or understands what I mean and can help clarify it a bit? I hate to go around asking for help for it if I really need help for another part of me.

Click to expand...

I agree with @Paidiske's definition, and it's what I would use as the definition for the purpose of communicating with others. However, in trying to identify when spiritual abuse occurs, I use a broader definition. Every person is accountable to God for all their words and actions, therefore everything we do has some spiritual effect. All words have power, and all actions have even more power than that. If we speak or do something contrary to God's will, that creates an incidence of spiritual abuse. It may be easier to see what I mean if I generalize less: Whenever we act selfishly or are manipulative (both always contrary to God's will)—or commit any sin—we harm the recipient and those they are in community with.

Myychael said:

I can say this right now and i believe all is not forgiven it still eating at you,to cary this around for over a year is not a sign of forgiveness you must see this man on a regular basis or there is more to it.I one
Whom believes you have to face your fears to get over them hurt is a type of fear for instance what does he really think of me has he spread rumors or lied about what really happened.Or you might have liked it there and wished you hadnt left this all sounds strange to me over a simple dog story like this is
Bizarre all the way being attacked by a Pastor for that small matter you need to move on a question for you is that Pastor still overseeing that congregation?

Click to expand...

i disagree, a person can forgive and it can take longer than a year to get over and heal.
when it is your soul and spiritual life that has been injured getting back on your feet takes time and thats ok.

Spiritual abuse has been likened to rape of the soul. you wouldnt expect a rape survivor to just get over it. even with forgiveness done there are still trauma aspects of what happened to process and deal with. an article i read said some who have experienced spiritual abuse show signs of PTSD.

i'm saying this to say its not just a matter of leaving a situation that was abusive, forgiving and then suddenly youre over it. healing etc takes time. and thats ok.

If you believe that animals are a part of God's earthly creation, then the animals God wants to raise from the dead will be raised from the dead at the resurrection. Jesus paid the price for redemption for both mankind and our "land" as our kinsman-redeemer (also see Colossians 1:20).

daffers234 said:

I have some questions regarding spiritual abuse, and am not sure where to post them, so here goes.

I was abused mentally/emotionally at my last church. I believe too that I was under a form of spiritual abuse. The church was a small house church. I left for good after I was grabbed and pushed by the pastor, but I was already damaged. I can give more details as necessary, but that may derail the topic here. I'm mostly trying to figure out what spiritual abuse is, so I can clarify my experiences and get help as needed.

I tried to look up information on spiritual abuse but found very little. What I found was not very helpful and sometimes discussed severe cult situations. Has anyone else either experienced spiritual abuse or understands what I mean and can help clarify it a bit? I hate to go around asking for help for it if I really need help for another part of me.

Click to expand...

What would Jesus do? If your church isn’t following that line of Christian reasoning then you have your answer. When Christ Says come unto me ye who are heavy laden and I will give you rest it doesn’t sound like your church is giving off that Spiritual sense of well-being.

daffers234 said:

Well, yeah ... but I was so mentally broken down by that point that I thought the pastor was perfectly within his rights to grab me and shove me.

He did not injure me, but grabbing and shoving is still considered physical assault. I know that now.

Click to expand...

Regardless of how long ago, go to or call an Emergency Room to get the phone number for abuse to call and report. Maybe, there is charges penning on that Pastor that you can testify for to set a pattern of abuse. Also, call reporters in his City, maybe one is out to do a story on him. This will warn others to avoid his Church. People who abuse should not be tolerated and be held responsible for their actions.

daffers234 said:

Well, yeah ... but I was so mentally broken down by that point that I thought the pastor was perfectly within his rights to grab me and shove me.

He did not injure me, but grabbing and shoving is still considered physical assault. I know that now.

Click to expand...

Contact these sites, to see if they have warnings about that Pastor.

http://blogs.spiritualabuse.org/

http://www.apologeticsindex.org/

I don't know why it came to the OP being pushed, or the tone of the discussion, but I agree its an area of opinion as regards pets going to heaven, not doctrine or dogma.

I think there are also some people who will leap to conclude something as being 'spiritual abuse', without hearing both sides. There is real spiritual abuse where cult/sect leaders take control over nearly every aspect of their follower's lives.

I don't think the following is spiritual abuse but I once had a fairly heated debate with an elder at a church I was going to who was also by vocation a psychologist, it was over a non-Christian book, and he had given me a lift home, we talked in the car and the conversation moved towards this book having a similar message to the message of the Bible. Well I thought that was taking it a bit far, however helpful the book was, and I began to disagree, but it was extremely difficult as I felt there was something coming over me to just give in, - like who am I to challenge a church elder.

Now I don't quite think the same on the area of dispute as I did then, but what was bothering me then was that I wanted this elder to show some discernment, and felt he wasn't showing any. Anyway we parted telling each other to read this or that, I felt churned up and wondered if I was in spiritual warfare. I sat down later and wrote a letter to him accompanied by a magazine article pointing out how the book diverges from scripture. The following Sunday I stayed for communion at church, I felt afterward I needed to reconcile regardless of whether I had been right and approached him and we shook hands and I can't remember what exactly I said but I indicated I didn't wish to fall out with him over the book.

daffers234 said:

I have some questions regarding spiritual abuse, and am not sure where to post them, so here goes.

I was abused mentally/emotionally at my last church. I believe too that I was under a form of spiritual abuse. The church was a small house church. I left for good after I was grabbed and pushed by the pastor, but I was already damaged. I can give more details as necessary, but that may derail the topic here. I'm mostly trying to figure out what spiritual abuse is, so I can clarify my experiences and get help as needed.

I tried to look up information on spiritual abuse but found very little. What I found was not very helpful and sometimes discussed severe cult situations. Has anyone else either experienced spiritual abuse or understands what I mean and can help clarify it a bit? I hate to go around asking for help for it if I really need help for another part of me.

Click to expand...

This is an older, but excellent book on spiritual abuse and the many forms it takes. I highly recommend it for any Christian.

The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse By: David Johnson and Jeff VanVonderen


https://www.amazon.com/Subtle-Power...&keywords=the+subtle+power+of+spiritual+abuse

daffers234 said:

Thanks ... what you've said makes a lot of sense.

The pastor told me all the time how he was proud of me, but his actions said otherwise. The abuse was very subtle and came on slowly and thus I didn't realize it until he physically pushed me. (He would have said he was "leading" me to my car, but it was a grab/shove.) Another example is that I thought, if he really was proud of me, he'd be fine with me leaving to grow elsewhere, just sad to lose me. But he jumped down my throat and told me I wouldn't fit anywhere, and so on. That is more mental than spiritual abuse, but you can see what was going on.

If anyone else has any thoughts, please let me know. I would like a better-rounded view of this as I continue to process what happened.

Click to expand...

He was losing control of you and that was disturbing to him. I don't know him well enough, but if he had to physically touch you then he was wrong. He sounds like an abuser of the Word of God and we have many of those out there today. If I can go to my church for 5 years of attendance and not want to leave, then I tell you that something must be right at my church because I left more churches than I can shake a stick at. Not because they were bad, but because they did not teach the Word of God. They taught opinion. They taught their opinion and that sounds like your former pastor.

The truth lies in the Word of God. I adhere to the KJV because I find it to be consistent and focused and our church does as well. Our pastor has never, to my ears anyway, said "What I believe is...," What he says every Sunday is, "Scripture says," and he quotes the chapter and verse and not once does he shove it down our throat. He wants us to hear it, to digest it, and to make it our own. So, if my church is like that, and I don't ever want to miss a Sunday even though I am a dedicated outdoors-man, I will sat that there are others out there who will receive you. I simply say to stay in the Word, seek the truth, and be ready to leave what is not true for the sake of truth.

daffers234 said:

Heh ... well, I was reluctant to post it right off. But I will tell you now. I do ask that you do not judge me too harshly, and I will try my best to be honest without being a jerk.

The pastor said, hands-down, that personal pets go to heaven. He was referring specifically to dogs. I am not a dog person and ... well, he insisted that God would change me and make it alright in heaven. He refused to accept any other ideas on it. (The translation seemed to be: it's sort of OK to be a non-dog-person on earth, but God will change your personality in heaven; you are thus flawed.)

My reasoning is a bit different than his. I know many people would love to see their pets in heaven, and I am not disparaging their opinions and desires, but I am not sure that the Bible allows for it, and that is the best answer I can give. The pastor demanded to know what my answer would be if someone came and asked me about it. At the time, I realized that I would try to be kindly honest and say, "I just don't know. I don't think we can know until we get there." I still believe this, but at the time I was far too afraid to tell the pastor.

I just don't think heaven is a repository for my selfish earthly desires - I am speaking for myself only, and don't want to push this on others. I want to be with God, in perfect harmony, and a dog would only distract me from that perfect oneness; thus heaven would be imperfect. Again, I realize not everyone feels that way. But, too, as I said, the pastor seemed to think I was the flawed one, and God would change ME.

There were many other issues with the situation, but that is the most specific one where he demanded an answer, at least that I remember.

Thanks for your help!

Click to expand...

I have never seen one chapter or verse dedicated to dogs in heaven. Ever. And those who say they do are many, but many more say no. Sort of like one saying my mom watches me from heaven. Why? I would not want my mom to ever look back at this world once she has left to be with the Lord. Why in the world would you want that? Nor would I want there to be dogs or cats there. Jesus and our Loving God..., yes. But not dogs or cats or snakes or rabbits or caterpillars or such. Heaven is there for us, not animals and if we are in that much adoration of God, how would we have time for animals? I wouldn't want to spend one minute with a dog when I have God to spend it with.

It sounded like it was a house church.

The reality is, if you're a pastor, you have disproportionate power in your relationships with those under your care, and you have a responsibility to use that power for their good.

It's very hard to interpret this pastor's behaviour as described in that light.

daffers234 said:

If anyone else has any thoughts, please let me know. I would like a better-rounded view of this as I continue to process what happened.

Click to expand...

From my experiences of spiritual abuse, I'd say you need to grow a thicker skin. In life inside and outside of church it's just not reasonable to think that you'll get along with everyone. You're just going to have learn to deal with confrontation and one method is being exposed to it and figure out what you can reply with to deescalate the situation. Other times you can draw a line in the sand and make the situation so uncomfortable for your opponent that they'll stop crossing over it. Basically don't always be so agreeable with other people and seek their approval.

The other thing to add and most important thing is make sure you're doing good works, be an asset and help get things done. Be the cheerful giver when it comes to providing the things necessary for the group to function.

People may not like your ideas but if there's an ounce of humanity in them, they'll respect you for getting things done.