Christianity and Capital Punishment

Is capital punishment compatible with Christianity?

  • Yes

    Votes: 30 69.8%
  • No

    Votes: 13 30.2%

  • Total voters
    43

marineimaging

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I've heard too many stories of people who were executed and then found to be innocent.
By now it should be well-known that Pope Francis has revised the Catholic Catechism to say that capital punishment is inadmissible. What do you think about the relationship between Christianity and capital punishment? I want to hear from all Christians, and I also want to give Catholics a place to argue. The topic is two-fold: capital punishment in general, and also specifically within the Catholic Church.

Some relevant links:
"The death penalty was never employed arbitrarily or frivolously. In fact, observing the use of capital punishment in the Old Testament actually shows us how precious human life is to God. Because human beings are image-bearers of God, murder was such a serious affront to both God and man that it had to be answered with the blood of the murderer. Genesis 9:6 suggests that this sense of justice is woven into the moral fabric of Creation."

This was not a minor change in Papal policy. This decision was drastic and impactful to all courts all over the world. What was once accepted as supported has now been rendered drastically opposed to past practices. Therefore you can bet there are a lot of people, Catholics included, who are wondering about the Pope's state of mind on this one. If he is concerned at having heard of a potential for the innocent to be executed, then there is a lot to consider. We all know that the few cases where an innocent might have been executed wrongly was most probably based on events that happened before forensic evidence as we know it today was available or even admitted in court. So, rather than let our answers be guided by yesteryear let's pose this question in light of TODAY's forensic evidence capabilities and our systems of checks and balances that are in place today.

As a matter of discourse one can't have heard of too many stories of the executed in America being found innocent because to be true that would require a new trial with admission of severe wrongdoing or extra weighty new evidence that was not available at the original hearing. Since the deceased cannot be resurrected or tried again there might be one out of a thousand judges that would rehear a case postmortem. Secondly, you don't just get handed a death sentence because you did one thing bad or one bad thing. Not for jaywalking, not prostitution, not even for burglary or strong-arm robbery. No, there is almost always additional and usually horrible characteristics to the conviction, such as especially heinous acts during the commission of a murder or the commission of multiple murders or rape. Or that the person has been found guilty numerous times and has proven to have such a horrible history that execution is truly the last resort. I mean, this person has proven to be nonredeemable in so many ways. In many cases of believing that an innocent person was executed the fact is that there might have been more of a technical trip-up, but that doesn't mean that criminal didn't pull the trigger on that victim. It usually means that an eyewitness said the shooters shirt was red when it proved to be hot pink with reddish dots or the getaway vehicle was a GMC pickup and not a Chevrolet like granny witness number 23 of 24 said.

What happened to a few people a hundred years ago in the courts, be it wrong in so many ways, still has no bearing on what we do today.
 
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SolomonVII

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The catechism as it reads today may well have been written by Dr Pangloss, and all is for the best in the best of all possible worlds.
It is great to say that modern technology is able to fully contain the evil of murderers and the worst of all possible predators.
It paints such a rosy picture of modernism. I wonder if any one spending any time in the wonder that is the marvel penal system would agree that the evil is contained, and all that is left now is to wait long enough until the Jeffrey Dalmers of the world get their haloes.
Pink is the new orange, seen through the rose colored glasses of the 'eternal' Catechism.
What ever happened to that nice young Jeffrey anyway? Was the modern technology able to contain the evil that was directed toward him?


The holes in the argument of the catechism, even before the current pope, were small like that, small like a black hole is small, that is.
 
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DamianWarS

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Pope Francis has revised the Catholic Catechism to say that capital punishment is inadmissible
in doing so does he also posthumously condemn all those who administered capital punishment under the Catholic church?
 
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Norbert L

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I've heard too many stories of people who were executed and then found to be innocent.
You mean put them to death so that they can spend eternity in hell?
I believe it largely depends on a persons personal predisposition towards God, not what you, I or someone tell them about who and what God is and how He will ultimately judge them.

"But the other rebuked him, saying, “Do you not fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation? And we indeed justly, for we are receiving the due reward of our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong.” And he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.” And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.”" Luke 23:40-43

Whether a person is innocent or guilty, mankind's justice can fail them, God's justice operates on a far superior level. Basically when any person is executed under a death penalty, doesn't necessarily mean they will burn in hell or be excluded from eternal life.
 
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simonbrooks

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Personally I don't see how you can marry up Christianity with the death sentence. As for innocents executed try looking at this.
http://www.ncadp.org/pages/innocence
Not good at all.
"Better 10 Guilty men go free than one innocent should suffer" William Blackstone
 
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akaDaScribe

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There are multiple examples in the Bible that support capital punishment. I have not seen any that oppose it.

We live in a world with many corrupt people in positions of power. Law officials have been found to tamper with evidence, withhold evidence, and knowingly put innocent people in jail.

Given that, it makes sense to me that capital punishment should only be an option when there is overwhelming evidence that only absurd people would refute. Examples of such evidence would be very clear video footage and instances with large numbers of witnesses.

In short, any time we pretty much know for a fact that the person did it, it should be an option.
 
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discipler7

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I've heard too many stories of people who were executed and then found to be innocent.
So, ...
many innocent people are killed in aircraft accidents caused by pilot mistakes = abolish flying and ban aircrafts.? = no innocents will be "wrongly" killed by aircraft accidents.?

Many innocent people are killed in car accidents caused by driver mistakes = abolish driving and ban cars.? = no innocents will be "wrongly" killed by car accidents.?

"To err is human".

"Humans are not perfect".
 
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dqhall

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"The death penalty was never employed arbitrarily or frivolously. In fact, observing the use of capital punishment in the Old Testament actually shows us how precious human life is to God. Because human beings are image-bearers of God, murder was such a serious affront to both God and man that it had to be answered with the blood of the murderer. Genesis 9:6 suggests that this sense of justice is woven into the moral fabric of Creation."

According to the Old Testament people could be executed for adultery or a minor Sabbath violation. In Numbers 15:32-36 someone was executed for picking up sticks on the Sabbath.
Secondly, you don't just get handed a death sentence because you did one thing bad or one bad thing. Not for jaywalking, not prostitution, not even for burglary or strong-arm robbery. No, there is almost always additional and usually horrible characteristics to the conviction, such as especially heinous acts during the commission of a murder or the commission of multiple murders or rape.

You wrote the death penalty might be appropriate in cases of rape. Trump has been accused of rape three times.
https://www.newsweek.com/donald-tru...-minor-wife-business-victims-roy-moore-713531
I do not think he should be killed.

I can recall some Bible verses against a rush to judgement:

Matthew 7:1-3 (KJV) Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

Matthew 5:38-42 (WEB)
38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.’ 39 But I tell you, don’t resist him who is evil; but whoever strikes you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40 If anyone sues you to take away your coat, let him have your cloak also.41 Whoever compels you to go one mile, go with him two. 42 Give to him who asks you, and don’t turn away him who desires to borrow from you.

There is a law in Deuteronomy 22:22 requiring the death penalty of a two people doing adultery/extramarital affair. Jesus did not recommend the death penalty in a case of adultery:
John 8:1-11 (WEB)
8 but Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. 2 Now very early in the morning, he came again into the temple, and all the people came to him. He sat down, and taught them. 3 The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman taken in adultery. Having set her in the middle, 4 they told him, “Teacher, we found this woman in adultery, in the very act. 5 Now in our law, Moses commanded us to stone such women. What then do you say about her?” 6 They said this testing him, that they might have something to accuse him of.
But Jesus stooped down, and wrote on the ground with his finger. 7 But when they continued asking him, he looked up and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him throw the first stone at her.”8 Again he stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground.
9 They, when they heard it, being convicted by their conscience, went out one by one, beginning from the oldest, even to the last. Jesus was left alone with the woman where she was, in the middle. 10 Jesus, standing up, saw her and said, “Woman, where are your accusers? Did no one condemn you?”
11 She said, “No one, Lord.”
Jesus said, “Neither do I condemn you. Go your way. From now on, sin no more.”

Jesus did not spend his time on earth looking for people to arrest, jail and execute.
 
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RDKirk

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It paints such a rosy picture of modernism. I wonder if any one spending any time in the wonder that is the marvel penal system would agree that the evil is contained, and all that is left now is to wait long enough until the Jeffrey Dalmers of the world get their haloes.
Pink is the new orange, seen through the rose colored glasses of the 'eternal' Catechism.
What ever happened to that nice young Jeffrey anyway? Was the modern technology able to contain the evil that was directed toward him?

Jeffery Dahmer became a Christian before he was murdered in prison.
 
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Yarddog

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By now it should be well-known that Pope Francis has revised the Catholic Catechism to say that capital punishment is inadmissible. What do you think about the relationship between Christianity and capital punishment? I want to hear from all Christians, and I also want to give Catholics a place to argue. The topic is two-fold: capital punishment in general, and also specifically within the Catholic Church.

Some relevant links:
He that is without sin among you, let him cast the first stone..
 
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RDKirk

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God permits earthly kings to use the sword (or not to use the sword) as necessary to maintain order in the kingdom. An orderly kingdom is a good thing in that it provides an environment more conducive to the activity of the Body of Christ than does a state of chaos (and this is true even when the king's order is oppressive to the Body of Christ). Scripture instructs us to pray for an orderly kingdom and also not to act against an orderly kingdom.

Scripture does not instruct the Body of Christ to actually ally with the king in using the sword to establish order in the earthly kingdom, however, as we are not citizens of earthly kingdoms, but citizens of the Kingdom of Heaven assigned as ambassadors to these kingdoms.

As ambassadors of the Kingdom of Heaven, it is always our responsibility to make openly known the expressed will of our King and the culture of our Kingdom. That's what ambassadors do.

Jesus straightened up and asked her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?"

"No one, sir," she said.

"Then neither do I condemn you,"Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin."
-- John 8

Our King Jesus permits earthly kings to use the sword (or not to use the sword) as necessary to maintain order in their kingdoms. Scripture indicates that if the earthly king decides to extend mercy, then Jesus will certainly not demand condemnation.

For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. -- John 3
 
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marineimaging

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According to the Old Testament people could be executed for adultery or a minor Sabbath violation. In Numbers 15:32-36 someone was executed for picking up sticks on the Sabbath.


You wrote the death penalty might be appropriate in cases of rape. Trump has been accused of rape three times.
https://www.newsweek.com/donald-tru...-minor-wife-business-victims-roy-moore-713531
I do not think he should be killed.

I can recall some Bible verses against a rush to judgement:

Matthew 7:1-3 (KJV) Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

Matthew 5:38-42 (WEB)
38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.’ 39 But I tell you, don’t resist him who is evil; but whoever strikes you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40 If anyone sues you to take away your coat, let him have your cloak also.41 Whoever compels you to go one mile, go with him two. 42 Give to him who asks you, and don’t turn away him who desires to borrow from you.

There is a law in Deuteronomy 22:22 requiring the death penalty of a two people doing adultery/extramarital affair. Jesus did not recommend the death penalty in a case of adultery:
John 8:1-11 (WEB)
8 but Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. 2 Now very early in the morning, he came again into the temple, and all the people came to him. He sat down, and taught them. 3 The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman taken in adultery. Having set her in the middle, 4 they told him, “Teacher, we found this woman in adultery, in the very act. 5 Now in our law, Moses commanded us to stone such women. What then do you say about her?” 6 They said this testing him, that they might have something to accuse him of.
But Jesus stooped down, and wrote on the ground with his finger. 7 But when they continued asking him, he looked up and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him throw the first stone at her.”8 Again he stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground.
9 They, when they heard it, being convicted by their conscience, went out one by one, beginning from the oldest, even to the last. Jesus was left alone with the woman where she was, in the middle. 10 Jesus, standing up, saw her and said, “Woman, where are your accusers? Did no one condemn you?”
11 She said, “No one, Lord.”
Jesus said, “Neither do I condemn you. Go your way. From now on, sin no more.”

Jesus did not spend his time on earth looking for people to arrest, jail and execute.
There is a difference between the Jewish laws and those universal truths given to Noah after the flood. But is sounds like you have a position against Capital Punishment. I have a position for it. I stated mine. You stated yours. Thanks.
 
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marineimaging

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Personally I don't see how you can marry up Christianity with the death sentence. As for innocents executed try looking at this.
http://www.ncadp.org/pages/innocence
Not good at all.
"Better 10 Guilty men go free than one innocent should suffer" William Blackstone
That sentiment is nice, until you and 8 other innocent people are the victims of those 9 criminals. As I said, the death penalty in America today is not just handed out like candy. First time offenders must meet a litmus test that includes determining if the act included other insidious acts on the part of the murderer or rapist. There is a lot more that goes into it and there are a lot of appeals and governing officials looking at it from a dozen different angles. Afterwards, when a person is approaching their execution date tens of thousands, to even millions, of dollars have been expended in an effort to insure that no innocent person is wrongly killed the the process of meeting out justice. And if they do become a victim to falsification or misdeeds by the prosecution do you think that God is not going to insure that justice is meted out accordingly? It comes to this. Would I would rather die as an innocent man so that 9 guilty men are removed from their ability to harm another innocent person, or child, or mom? What about those heros who were innocent of wrongdoing on the battlefield, yet were murdered by the enemy who desired to do wrong to the just people of this earth? Is there a drastic difference?
 
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Yarddog

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I disagree with Pope Francis' decision and I think capital punishment is compatible with Christianity. Here are three quick reasons I disagree:
  1. Common sense. Certain horrendous crimes are deserving of death. Maybe we just can't see that any more. I am not of the mind that our society is some elevated pinnacle of moral and social civilization that has transcended millenia of wisdom on questions like these.
  2. Scripture and tradition. Scripture explicitly endorses the death penalty multiple times. Catholic tradition is unanimous on the question (the only argument to be had is whether it is a Tradition or a tradition).
  3. Unity. I can't imagine a better way to more severely rupture an already-hurting, factious, and polemical Church.

(My stance is against the idea that capital punishment is, in principle, morally impermissible. That idea has never been endorsed by the Church, but it seems that Francis is moving in that direction if he hasn't already endorsed it.)
I am pro life in all matters but would more agree with the CC's prior view.

The only scripture which allows for the death penalty are in the OT for Jews but Jesus ends that with his words about casting the first stone.
 
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zippy2006

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Thanks for your response. I mostly just want to hear what people think, but I will chip in a response here and there.

I am pro life in all matters but would more agree with the CC's prior view.

In the sense that it is allowed but should only be used very rarely and hopefully not at all?

The only scripture which allows for the death penalty are in the OT for Jews but Jesus ends that with his words about casting the first stone.

Have you ever run across the place where St. Paul refers to the death penalty?

For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer (Romans 13:3-4).
My understanding of John 8:7 is that it reflects a common rabbinic tradition in which offenders are treated mercifully. It was actually rare for a Hebrew court to issue the death penalty, but it did sometimes happen. Jesus' words are in line with that tradition.
 
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discipler7

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By now it should be well-known that Pope Francis has revised the Catholic Catechism to say that capital punishment is inadmissible. What do you think about the relationship between Christianity and capital punishment?
According to ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_by_murder_rate , more murders happened among the poor/over-populated, Catholic Hispanics/Browns and Blacks, eg Brazil and Mexico have many cities with high murder rates.

Has the Pope's anti-contraception policy indirectly contributed to the high murder rates in his parish/constituencies.?
 
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SolomonVII

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Jeffery Dahmer became a Christian before he was murdered in prison.
The point is that he was murdered in prison. If the modern penal system was so effective at offering protection to society, as the argument of the catechism says it is, then that would not have happened.
 
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dreadnought

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So, ...
many innocent people are killed in aircraft accidents caused by pilot mistakes = abolish flying and ban aircrafts.? = no innocents will be "wrongly" killed by aircraft accidents.?

Many innocent people are killed in car accidents caused by driver mistakes = abolish driving and ban cars.? = no innocents will be "wrongly" killed by car accidents.?

"To err is human".

"Humans are not perfect".
I hate to see someone executed for a crime they didn't commit. I bet you wouldn't want that to happen to you.
 
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