Can We Discuss Spiritual Abuse?

daffers234 · Aug 10, 2018

I have some questions regarding spiritual abuse, and am not sure where to post them, so here goes.

I was abused mentally/emotionally at my last church. I believe too that I was under a form of spiritual abuse. The church was a small house church. I left for good after I was grabbed and pushed by the pastor, but I was already damaged. I can give more details as necessary, but that may derail the topic here. I'm mostly trying to figure out what spiritual abuse is, so I can clarify my experiences and get help as needed.

I tried to look up information on spiritual abuse but found very little. What I found was not very helpful and sometimes discussed severe cult situations. Has anyone else either experienced spiritual abuse or understands what I mean and can help clarify it a bit? I hate to go around asking for help for it if I really need help for another part of me.

Paidiske · Aug 10, 2018

On a basic level, I would define spiritual abuse as using someone's religious/spiritual beliefs to control them.

So, eg. "If you don't do what I say, you'll go to hell."
Or, "The Bible says you must xyz, and if you don't, you're not a real Christian."

Coercive or manipulative use of church authority or leadership roles falls into this as well, including leadership which limits others' opportunities for growth.

Does that sort of thing ring bells for you?

daffers234 · Aug 10, 2018

Paidiske said:
Does that sort of thing ring bells for you?

It does to some extent. The pastor was more oblique.

He was quite open to saying that some folks believe different things that don't necessarily matter (i.e. was Jesus born in a cave or a wooden stable?) and that they're still saved. But he was really firm on some things where I disagreed and demanded to know how I'd answer, implying I was dead wrong and he was totally right, and that God WOULD change me when I got to heaven. (But, he never accepted that HE might be the one to change.) It was not theologically important stuff but more opinion, I think; but to him it was Gospel Truth.

Does that make sense?

Edit: I do believe I was stagnating there. The pastor, however, insisted there was spiritual food at his church and basically said I had to be willing to accept it. I needed and wanted a church where I could fit better and grow more, but he told me I was the wrong one.

Paidiske · Aug 10, 2018

It does make sense. It doesn't sound healthy.

It's a fine line sometimes between presenting a church's official or historic view, or even strong personal conviction, and invalidating someone else's view, and by implication, the experiences which brought them to hold that view. Presenting a view isn't necessarily itself abusive, but telling you that God would change you (which is invalidating, and denies where God has already been at work in your life), demanding answers, and so forth, sounds like it's over the line. Especially in a context where there are other forms of abuse happening as well.

daffers234 · Aug 10, 2018

Thanks ... what you've said makes a lot of sense.

The pastor told me all the time how he was proud of me, but his actions said otherwise. The abuse was very subtle and came on slowly and thus I didn't realize it until he physically pushed me. (He would have said he was "leading" me to my car, but it was a grab/shove.) Another example is that I thought, if he really was proud of me, he'd be fine with me leaving to grow elsewhere, just sad to lose me. But he jumped down my throat and told me I wouldn't fit anywhere, and so on. That is more mental than spiritual abuse, but you can see what was going on.

If anyone else has any thoughts, please let me know. I would like a better-rounded view of this as I continue to process what happened.

Dan the deacon · Aug 10, 2018

It depends on what you were talking about. If it is dogma then you must believe. If it was doctrine then It's not an obligated belief but just a teaching. But if it was just you desiring to attend worship elsewhere then he was wrong.

Chinchilla · Aug 10, 2018

daffers234 said:
It does to some extent. The pastor was more oblique.

He was quite open to saying that some folks believe different things that don't necessarily matter (i.e. was Jesus born in a cave or a wooden stable?) and that they're still saved. But he was really firm on some things where I disagreed and demanded to know how I'd answer, implying I was dead wrong and he was totally right, and that God WOULD change me when I got to heaven. (But, he never accepted that HE might be the one to change.) It was not theologically important stuff but more opinion, I think; but to him it was Gospel Truth.

Does that make sense?

Edit: I do believe I was stagnating there. The pastor, however, insisted there was spiritual food at his church and basically said I had to be willing to accept it. I needed and wanted a church where I could fit better and grow more, but he told me I was the wrong one.

What was the thing he said he was sure and you will be changed when u get to heaven ?

daffers234 · Aug 10, 2018

Chinchilla said:
What was the thing he said he was sure and you will be changed when u get to heaven ?

Heh ... well, I was reluctant to post it right off. But I will tell you now. I do ask that you do not judge me too harshly, and I will try my best to be honest without being a jerk.

The pastor said, hands-down, that personal pets go to heaven. He was referring specifically to dogs. I am not a dog person and ... well, he insisted that God would change me and make it alright in heaven. He refused to accept any other ideas on it. (The translation seemed to be: it's sort of OK to be a non-dog-person on earth, but God will change your personality in heaven; you are thus flawed.)

My reasoning is a bit different than his. I know many people would love to see their pets in heaven, and I am not disparaging their opinions and desires, but I am not sure that the Bible allows for it, and that is the best answer I can give. The pastor demanded to know what my answer would be if someone came and asked me about it. At the time, I realized that I would try to be kindly honest and say, "I just don't know. I don't think we can know until we get there." I still believe this, but at the time I was far too afraid to tell the pastor.

I just don't think heaven is a repository for my selfish earthly desires - I am speaking for myself only, and don't want to push this on others. I want to be with God, in perfect harmony, and a dog would only distract me from that perfect oneness; thus heaven would be imperfect. Again, I realize not everyone feels that way. But, too, as I said, the pastor seemed to think I was the flawed one, and God would change ME.

There were many other issues with the situation, but that is the most specific one where he demanded an answer, at least that I remember.

Thanks for your help!

Daniel Marsh · Aug 10, 2018

daffers234 said:
I have some questions regarding spiritual abuse, and am not sure where to post them, so here goes.

I was abused mentally/emotionally at my last church. I believe too that I was under a form of spiritual abuse. The church was a small house church. I left for good after I was grabbed and pushed by the pastor, but I was already damaged. I can give more details as necessary, but that may derail the topic here. I'm mostly trying to figure out what spiritual abuse is, so I can clarify my experiences and get help as needed.

I tried to look up information on spiritual abuse but found very little. What I found was not very helpful and sometimes discussed severe cult situations. Has anyone else either experienced spiritual abuse or understands what I mean and can help clarify it a bit? I hate to go around asking for help for it if I really need help for another part of me.

The best book from what you are describing is:
Don't let jerks get the best of you (1993)
By Meier, Paul D

If you were injured in a physical way, call the Police.

Daniel Marsh · Aug 10, 2018

As a Jewish person, Jesus did not like dogs.

Psalm 22:16Dogs surround me, a pack of villains encircles me; they pierce my hands and my feet.

Psalm 22:20 Deliver me from the sword, my precious life from the power of the dogs.

Matthew 7:6 “Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.

Luke 16:21 and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.

Philippians 3:2 Watch out for those dogs, those evildoers, those mutilators of the flesh.

2 Peter 2:22 Of them the proverbs are true: “A dog returns to its vomit,” and, “A sow that is washed returns to her wallowing in the mud.”

To my knowledge dogs were wild back in Jesus day and not pets, thus a low view of them.

daffers234 · Aug 10, 2018

Daniel Marsh said:
If you were injured in a physical way, call the Police.

Well, yeah ... but I was so mentally broken down by that point that I thought the pastor was perfectly within his rights to grab me and shove me.

He did not injure me, but grabbing and shoving is still considered physical assault. I know that now.

AnnaDeborah · Aug 10, 2018

Are you attending another church now? Is there someone (pastor, housegroup leader) you can share with there? It helps to have someone local who understands what you have been through. Also, if anything happens in your new church that reminds you of a bad experience in the past, it can be helpful to have someone there to support you (e.g. I attended a church where the leaders wanted outward displays of emotion and it ended up being "if you didn't raise your arms in the air during that song, you are in spiritual bondage" - "If you aren't prompted to shout 'amen' at this point in the message, you should question your salvation" etc. and for a few years after, any time someone clapped or raised their arms or showed any emotion in church I would start to panic that it was happening all over again and want to run out!)

NB: As well as asking God to bring healing from any hurt you have experienced through this, also ask Him to show you if there is anything in your own life (anger or bitterness at being hurt) that needs repenting. In my own experience, I've found that when I've been badly hurt by another believer, the pain hides the fact that I am holding on to wrong attitudes toward that person. I can excuse it by saying 'oh, but I wouldn't feel this way if they hadn't done that', but healing from the wrong done by others has never come until I have put right with God the wrong in my own life.

daffers234 · Aug 10, 2018

AnnaDeborah said:
Are you attending another church now? ...

Yes, yes to everything you said. I spent about a year not attending anywhere and then found a new church. Actually I went through much of what you went through when I began attending a new small-group through that current church. (I don't want to derail everything with a dog discussion here, but if you don't mind, I'll PM you.)

The difference in reactions between the new group and the old house-church were like night and day, and were confusing to me because I was finally in healthy, loving friendships. I'm glad to be in the group now.

I chose to forgive that pastor long ago and hold no bitterness towards him. Yes, the things he did and said still hurt me. But I understand that forgiveness DOES NOT mean that what he did was OK. On the contrary, it acknowledges the wrongs and hurts, but I am not holding them against him. It's just that the mental/emotional/spiritual abuse I underwent still affects me and I am still processing what happened, even years later.

I'd like to keep the topic on spiritual abuse, if possible. But I am open to discussing more details too, especially if it'll help folks understand my positions.

Again, thanks everyone!

Chinchilla · Aug 10, 2018

daffers234 said:
I just don't know. I don't think we can know until we get there."

I would answer that aswell .
I don't know if they go to heaven but for sure killing an animal is not wrong or else things like passover or day of atonement would be forbidden .

AnnaDeborah · Aug 10, 2018

You're welcome to PM me if it would be helpful.

Healing can take a while, but God can do amazing things! After my experience, I moved to a church which was fairly staid but had one or two folk who were more outgoing in their behaviour during the service, but they were lovely and didn't expect anyone else to be the same and I gradually started to heal. Then I moved to the other end of the country and went to a new church which outwardly was as openly demonstrative as the first church, but the heart was totally different, and I experienced a complete healing there.

yeshuaslavejeff · Aug 10, 2018

Perhaps you realize, more or less, Scripturally this is not a good focus. It is a popular one(topic) these days, often for many wrong reasons we cannot go into here (legal reasons or rules) .
It seems to go directly against "think on those things above, those things that are pure, etc etc " in various Scriptures from Genesis through Revelation.
Not as if to deny what happened/ happens, but to find out / to follow/ Jesus in growing and healing and rejoicing daily.

On a parallel type example, in the United States and the world, it could be said most parents spiritually 'abuse' their children, no matter how they seem to others or even to the parents and the children themselves.
This is because of the world we live in - as written/confirmed in Scripture over and over.
When (if) children get saved at some point in their lives, they move on rejoicing in salvation , forgetting what lies behind and pressing forward to all that lies ahead in Christ Jesus, with hearts full of thanksgiving and praise to the Father in heaven continually and in awe and in wonder at His Amazing Grace in Salvation in Jesus.

daffers234 said:
It's just that the mental/emotional/spiritual abuse I underwent still affects me and I am still processing what happened, even years later.

I'd like to keep the topic on spiritual abuse, if possible.

Dave-W · Aug 10, 2018

daffers234 said:
The pastor said, hands-down, that personal pets go to heaven. He was referring specifically to dogs. I am not a dog person and ... well, he insisted that God would change me and make it alright in heaven. He refused to accept any other ideas on it. (The translation seemed to be: it's sort of OK to be a non-dog-person on earth, but God will change your personality in heaven; you are thus flawed.)

OK, now that is just plain weird. Since there is no scripture one way or the other, it CANNOT be a point of doctrine. It is only opinion.

And yes - people who make doctrines out of personal opinion are usually deceived.

I would suggest you buy and read this book:

https://www.amazon.com/Toxic-Faith-Stephen-Arterburn/dp/0877888256

daffers234 · Aug 10, 2018

Dave-W said:
I would suggest you buy and read this book:

https://www.amazon.com/Toxic-Faith-Stephen-Arterburn/dp/0877888256

Hmm ... I'll take a look at that book. It looks helpful. Thanks for the suggestion.

Dave-W · Aug 10, 2018

You are welcome

Small Fish · Aug 10, 2018

So there will be dogs in heaven then!

Being a gentile

Can We Discuss Spiritual Abuse?

Active Member

Clara bonam audax

Active Member

Clara bonam audax

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner!

Active Member

Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner!

Matthew 16:17

Similar threads