Did John the Baptist sin?

Danthemailman · Aug 9, 2018

Southernscotty said:
We know that under pressure while he was in prison, John had doubts and wanted reassurance that Jesus was the Christ, So we see that even though he had the Holy Spirit, He was still human and needed God's grace just as we do. So did he sin? I am certain he did at times, Just as we all do :]

Romans 3:23 - All have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Including John the Baptist.

Ecclesiastes 7:20 - Indeed, there is not a righteous man on earth who continually does good and who never sins.

dreadnought · Aug 9, 2018

1stcenturylady said:
John the Baptist received the Holy Spirit in the womb, thus he was literally born again before he was even born. 1 John 3:9 says that those who have the seed (Holy Spirit) do not (willfully) sin, so did John the Baptist ever willfully sin?

Another question regarding John the Baptist. Jesus said that there was none greater than John the Baptist, but the least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than John. Seeing as John had the Holy Spirit, what was Jesus meaning?

We all have the Holy Spirit. How many of us have stopped sinning? We know that only Jesus lived a perfect life.

I am having difficulty with your second question.

SkyWriting · Aug 9, 2018

1stcenturylady said:
You are confusing the LAW with the SPIRIT. It is the LAW that gives us a knowledge of Sin. We are freed from producing sin we committed under the law, when we receive the SPIRIT.The Spirit takes away the sin nature to want to commit sin. That is why we are dead to sin. That wouldn't be true if we still had the sin nature.

Can we CHOOSE to resurrect the sin nature? Yes. Do we have to in this lifetime, just because our body of flesh is still decaying? No. When Paul talks of the "flesh," we need to differentiate between the nature and the body.

Yes, you have adequately described all humans (except Jesus and John the Baptist) since Adam sinned BEFORE accepting Christ and receiving the Holy Spirit. AFTER Christ we go from sinner to saint.

In God's eyes we are forgiven. In that respect, we change our standing before God.
Only to the extent that we recognise a particualr sin and ask forgivness for it
and then attempt to change, is there any evidence.

But as Paul explained, we continue to do what we would not like to be doing.
We continue to sin constantly. The only difference for believers is that we are forgiven.

Romans 7:18
For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right,
but not the ability to carry it out.

What Does the Bible Say About Our Sinful Nature? - OpenBible.info

Ken Rank · Aug 9, 2018

1stcenturylady said:
What you bring up here is what I've been pondering. I don't agree that just because our body of flesh has not put on incorruption yet, that it means our spirit and nature have not been already. 1 John 3:5 says, Jesus was manifested to take away our sin, and in Him there is no sin. Is that only future?

I'm also seeing that sin won't enter heaven. Romans 22:11 is not those in heaven, but those who have been separated between hell and heaven.

Yeshua spent his time on the mountain side (Matthew 5) showing why we need the law written in our heart. It isn't just sin when we take a spouse who belongs to another... it is sin when we look upon that person, in our hearts, in lust. It isn't just sin to murder, it is already murder when we have hate for another in our hearts. Since coming to Christ, not once... not one single time... have you looked at another a little too long? Held one in hatred EVEN FOR A MOMENT because of something they did to you or another? No road rage, EVER... even for a second? Because once that thought has entered the heart even if you fight against it and don't allow it to come to fruition... we have still sinned. The Spirit of the Law doesn't do away with the Law, it reveals the INTENT behind the letter, the heart of God behind each word. We have to have the law fully written by God on our minds and hearts so that it is there in us at all times.... 24/7/365 and THEN and then alone, are we incapable of sin.

We strike to walk in perfection, we seek it, we desire righteousness... but until we are perfected we are imperfect. To say that John the Baptist did not sin is to add a second "human" to the never sinned list. He SHOULD be walking around today just like Yeshua... for the grave cannot hold in perfection. And that is why Yeshua rose and John did not.

BNR32FAN · Aug 9, 2018

1stcenturylady said:
That was when Thomas needed to see the risen Christ for himself before he would believe.

Yes thank you I couldn’t remember where I read it.

1stcenturylady · Aug 9, 2018

dreadnought said:
We all have the Holy Spirit. How many of us have stopped sinning? We know that only Jesus lived a perfect life.

If you've read all my posts on here I've explained I don't mean we don't commit unintentional trespasses. But I do mean we DO NOT commit willful sins we KNOW are sins. Do you agree or disagree.

To say "sin is sin" like some do is not scriptural. You haven't said this, but I'm wondering...

Jenniferdiana · Aug 9, 2018

i am not sure but Jesus spoke some profound truths, some of the stuff he said had a deeper truth to it and since he spoke in wisdom and power and not the ordinary some of the stuff is hard to understand

dreadnought · Aug 9, 2018

1stcenturylady said:
If you've read all my posts on here I've explained I don't mean we don't commit unintentional trespasses. But I do mean we DO NOT commit willful sins we KNOW are sins. Do you agree or disagree.

To say "sin is sin" like some do is not scriptural. You haven't said this, but I'm wondering...

And how would you define a "willful sin"? Temptation can be very powerful, and we can rationalize that something isn't a sin, when it really is. Do you call that a "willful sin"?

1stcenturylady · Aug 9, 2018

SkyWriting said:
In God's eyes we are forgiven. In that respect, we change our standing before God.
Only to the extent that we recognise a particualr sin and ask forgivness for it and then attempt to change, is there any evidence.

That is a broad general statement that you may mean, but I have to ask, do you believe we are automatically forgiven of willful sins we still commit, or just past sins? If yes to the former, then I disagree. We are forgiven of ALL our PAST sins. No where do we have a license to sin in the future because of the false doctrine that our past, present and future sins are forgiven. Scripture only makes reference to our past sins. THEN He gives us the POWER to not sin again. We are justified. We are sanctified. And Paul strongly speaks against sinning willfully once we are a Christian and have been sactified. Read Hebrews 10:26-31. The problem is it is up to God whether He will even allow us to repent again after that. It is not guaranteed one way or the other. Certainly if you don't repent you've slipped back into perdition - hell. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the Living God. 1 John 1:9 is how to BECOME a Christian, not what many in the church believe that it is okay to sin, just repent later and God is obligated to forgive you again based on that verse. That is apathy, lukewarmness which God wants to vomit out of His mouth. Rev. 3 (Laodecian church age/right now)

SkyWriting said:
But as Paul explained, we continue to do what we would not like to be doing.
We continue to sin constantly. The only difference for believers is that we are forgiven.

Romans 7:18
For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right,
but not the ability to carry it out.

Evidently you've read Romans 7 out of context. It starts at verse 7. Here you will see that Paul is finishing his lesson on the LAW (which we are not under) and talking about SIN (which Jesus took away). So Romans 7 is us BEFORE Christ, when all we had was the Mosaic Law.

CONTEXT, CONTEXT, CONTEXT. Romans 8 is Paul's introduction to life in the Spirit. It also explains WHY we battle in Romans 7. It is because of sin, which you seem to believe we will always have. No! Romans 8:2-9

2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

What you are completely overlooking is verse 6. You believe you will always be carnally minded, JUST FORGIVEN. The truth is so much more powerful than the weak doctrine you presently have been taught. Whoever taught you that you better RUN! You are not recognizing truth.

1stcenturylady · Aug 9, 2018

Ken Rank said:
Yeshua spent his time on the mountain side (Matthew 5) showing why we need the law written in our heart. It isn't just sin when we take a spouse who belongs to another... it is sin when we look upon that person, in our hearts, in lust. It isn't just sin to murder, it is already murder when we have hate for another in our hearts. Since coming to Christ, not once... not one single time... have you looked at another a little too long? Held one in hatred EVEN FOR A MOMENT because of something they did to you or another? No road rage, EVER... even for a second? Because once that thought has entered the heart even if you fight against it and don't allow it to come to fruition... we have still sinned. The Spirit of the Law doesn't do away with the Law, it reveals the INTENT behind the letter, the heart of God behind each word. We have to have the law fully written by God on our minds and hearts so that it is there in us at all times.... 24/7/365 and THEN and then alone, are we incapable of sin.

We strike to walk in perfection, we seek it, we desire righteousness... but until we are perfected we are imperfect. To say that John the Baptist did not sin is to add a second "human" to the never sinned list. He SHOULD be walking around today just like Yeshua... for the grave cannot hold in perfection. And that is why Yeshua rose and John did not.

The Sermon on the Mount was to Jews who knew the letter of the law. They believed if they kept the letter, they didn't sin. Jesus is showing them that sin is in the heart, not just actions. He showed them sin is in everyone, even those who possess the LAW. This sin of the heart is what Jesus died to cleanse us of. Hypothetically He is not cleansing us if he leaves the sin nature intact. That is what I am seeing - being born again is putting into us a new created nature. One that does not sin of the heart. Jesus puts His own Spirit in us to create love in us. And all the other fruit of the Spirit which when mature does not even come close to breaking any past laws.

1stcenturylady · Aug 9, 2018

dreadnought said:
And how would you define a "willful sin"? Temptation can be very powerful, and we can rationalize that something isn't a sin, when it really is. Do you call that a "willful sin"?

A willful sin is a KNOWN sin, that you commit deliberately.

When is temptation, sin? It is not when we are first presented with a temptation. We can still turn away before it becomes sin. In fact, God always gives a way of escape. James says, Resist the devil and he will flee.

But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. 15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.

I've been presented with strong temptations. When I lived in Hollywood and dated top movie stars, directors, writers, and producers, I sinned a lot. But when I got filled with the Spirit, I turned away from that sin. Warren Beatty used to call me every once in a while after, tell me he still loved me, and was I still going to church? We never hooked up again, just remained friends, and would talk if we were to run into each other at the studio. I could never get him to follow after Jesus. He would say he went to Baptist Sunday School for 20 years, so he was good - once saved, always saved.

Believe me, you can't get any stronger temptations than great sex. But, it was easy resisting with the HS.

dreadnought · Aug 9, 2018

1stcenturylady said:
A willful sin is a KNOWN sin, that you commit deliberately.

When is temptation, sin? It is not when we are first presented with a temptation. We can still turn away before it becomes sin. In fact, God always gives a way of escape. James says, Resist the devil and he will flee.

But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. 15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.

I've been presented with strong temptations. When I lived in Hollywood and dated top movie stars, directors, writers, and producers, I sinned a lot. But when I got filled with the Spirit, I turned away from that sin. Warren Beatty used to call me every once in a while after, tell me he still loved me, and was I still going to church? We never hooked up again, just remained friends, and would talk if we were to run into each other at the studio. I could never get him to follow after Jesus. He would say he went to Baptist Sunday School for 20 years, so he was good - once saved, always saved.

I've forgotten what we were talking about.

1stcenturylady · Aug 9, 2018

dreadnought said:
I've forgotten what we were talking about.

Then click on the return arrows or even expand the post I'm responding to.

dreadnought · Aug 9, 2018

1stcenturylady said:
Then click on the return arrows or even expand the post I'm responding to.

You're talking about a lot of reading. It's helpful when people keep their responses brief.

1stcenturylady · Aug 9, 2018

dreadnought said:
You're talking about a lot of reading. It's helpful when people keep their responses brief.

You're asking a dog not to bark. Are you on your phone? I'm at my desk. I shouldn't think your memory would be that bad that going back a couple wouldn't jog your memory. Excuses, excuses. LOL

I'm leaving to go swimming.

narrowgateevangelist · Aug 9, 2018

John 1: 1. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2. The same was in the beginning with God. 3. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. 6. There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7. The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. 8. He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.

John the baptist sinned, same as John the evangelist.

1 John 1: 1. That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; 2. (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us

3. That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. 4. And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full. 5. This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 6. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: 7. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 8. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

God is loving, merciful, and remembers our condition.

Psalm 103: 13. Like as a father pitieth his children, so the LORD pitieth them that fear him. 14. For he knoweth our frame; he remembereth that we are dust. 15. As for man, his days are as grass: as a flower of the field, so he flourisheth. 16. For the wind passeth over it, and it is gone; and the place thereof shall know it no more. 17. But the mercy of the LORD is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, and his righteousness unto children's children;

FutureAndAHope · Aug 9, 2018

1stcenturylady said:
John the Baptist received the Holy Spirit in the womb, thus he was literally born again before he was even born. 1 John 3:9 says that those who have the seed (Holy Spirit) do not (willfully) sin, so did John the Baptist ever willfully sin?

Another question regarding John the Baptist. Jesus said that there was none greater than John the Baptist, but the least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than John. Seeing as John had the Holy Spirit, what was Jesus meaning?

Hi,

The truth is having the Holy Spirit does not stop a person from sinning, the Holy Spirit reveals the will of the Father. A person can sin with the Holy Spirit, for thier own spirit has a will separate to Gods. Jesus could not sin for He was God in the flesh, God's spirit did not have the taint of a human spirit.

Paul said of repentance, "I say these thing so that you do not sin, but if we sin we have an advocate with the Father, [who forgives our sin]".

No man ever born has been sinless, for we have our own will, and our will is never 100% God's will, so JOhn would have sinned. But as we surrender to God's Holy Spirit we will become less and less sinful, but no man woman or child can claim sinlessness, for our will is not God's.

DamianWarS · Aug 9, 2018

1stcenturylady said:
John the Baptist received the Holy Spirit in the womb, thus he was literally born again before he was even born. 1 John 3:9 says that those who have the seed (Holy Spirit) do not (willfully) sin, so did John the Baptist ever willfully sin?

Another question regarding John the Baptist. Jesus said that there was none greater than John the Baptist, but the least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than John. Seeing as John had the Holy Spirit, what was Jesus meaning?

we inherent Christ's righteousness upon salvation... and His righteousness is better than John's, so through inheritance we are better than John

Ken Rank · Aug 9, 2018

1stcenturylady said:
The Sermon on the Mount was to Jews who knew the letter of the law. They believed if they kept the letter, they didn't sin. Jesus is showing them that sin is in the heart, not just actions. He showed them sin is in everyone, even those who possess the LAW. This sin of the heart is what Jesus died to cleanse us of. Hypothetically He is not cleansing us if he leaves the sin nature intact. That is what I am seeing - being born again is putting into us a new created nature. One that does not sin of the heart. Jesus puts His own Spirit in us to create love in us. And all the other fruit of the Spirit which when mature does not even come close to breaking any past laws.

So you won't answer... you never once, even for a second, since coming to the Lord held another in contempt? No road rage? No family member caused anger? Never brought to hate, even for a moment? You are 100% without sin in the heart since coming to the Lord, 24/7/365 X however many years you have been with Him?

If you say yes, you are the only one since Yeshua to do it.

1stcenturylady · Aug 9, 2018

narrowgateevangelist said:
John 1: 1. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2. The same was in the beginning with God. 3. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. 6. There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7. The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. 8. He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.

John the baptist sinned, same as John the evangelist.

1 John 1: 1. That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; 2. (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us 3. That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. 4. And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full. 5. This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 6. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: 7. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 8. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

God is loving, merciful, and remembers our condition.

Psalm 103: 13. Like as a father pitieth his children, so the LORD pitieth them that fear him. 14. For he knoweth our frame; he remembereth that we are dust. 15. As for man, his days are as grass: as a flower of the field, so he flourisheth. 16. For the wind passeth over it, and it is gone; and the place thereof shall know it no more. 17. But the mercy of the LORD is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, and his righteousness unto children's children;

Sorry, but you give no explanation as to why you believe the apostle John was calling himself still a sinner. Don't you believe he knew he had the Holy Spirit. And did he mean 1 John 3:9 to everyone but himself? You aren't making any proof of "John the baptist sinned, same as John the evangelist." You put up 1 John chapter one which is a contrast of people that are saved, and those who are unsaved. So what was your point?

Did John the Baptist sin?

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