Theologies

yeshuaslavejeff

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
Jan 6, 2005
39,944
11,098
okie
✟214,996.00
Faith
Anabaptist
True.

Can you name 3 people you know are blameless in Yahweh's Judgment (Sight) , who have a clear conscience in His Presence TODAY on earth ? (not even one tiny thing known against them)

I don't know why being in prison should bother a person who has a clear conscience.
 
Upvote 0

Dorothy Mae

Well-Known Member
May 26, 2018
5,657
1,017
Canton south of Germany
✟75,214.00
Country
Switzerland
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
First of all He wouldn't be much of a God if He didn't want that for us-and eternity with Him in heaven might be a bit of a grind :). The Church has always taught this, related at least to 1 Cor 2:9. Also, look up the word beatitude and its etymology; the church has also taught that God wishes to share in His own beatitude/happiness. He's a good God, His glory is a reflection not of an aloof superiority but flows from the goodness and love that He is-and inherently wants to share. What we have to understand is that God is infinitely, ineffably good and loves man lavishly and wants the very best for him-always has; God's on our side while enmity came from us, not Him, even as He allows us the freedom to wallow in our selfish, prideful foolishness, eternally if we wish. Anyway, Jesus came as a suffering servant, remember, and when we see Him we see God.
Except for the church teaching God desires our happiness (which is not the same as "blessed" since Jesus said "blessed" are those have qualities that match those of God such as suffering, not generally a mark of happiness) most of this is true but if this is what a person embraces as the sole motive of God, they are not going to remain following Jesus for long. His goal is not that we feel personal happiness in our life and well-being. His goal is that we learn to love Him and love others as we love ourselves. The above message appeals right to the selfishness we can embrace and feeds it. It would be like telling a new groom that his wife is there to meet his needs and help him through life leaving out the bit that he will called upon to do the same for her, laying aside his selfish desires at time.
Yep, but not only that. Try losing a child or suffering some awful illness or being a victim of another's sin or wrong-headed pursuit of happiness IOW-and you may well have. And these things can be used as well-to break stony hearts, to help us reject this world's ways and in any case help see our need for and dependency on God.
I have lost two children and am no strange to the above. The above is true but rather surfacey.
Because, if we're honest, we'd agree with the church that we all desire happiness-it's behind much of what we do, many of the choices we make-it's simply innate to want it, and it would certainly be bizarre to pursue its opposite-unhappiness.
Well, the church never preached personal happiness is God's life goal for us. That is actually deeply selfish. But yes, many make choices based on obtaining personal happiness at the expense of the happiness of others. IT is true but the chruch does not teach it as a valid goal in life.
Happiness is our "homeostasis" so to speak, where we want to be internally and no more selfish in itself than simply wanting what's good and right for ourselves, even if we can be selfish in pursuing it.
Don't you see that the above is completely selfish? Wanting what is good and right for ourselves (no matter what it costs others) is completely selfish.
And the more we let go and let God, the more peace and happiness we experience, relatively speaking to the extent that this world allows it.
I know of this catchy phrase and it is not how God works. One needs to add what we let go of, our selfish pursuit for our own happiness, and let God tell work on us to love the happiness of others as much as our own.
Loving God isn't vague; Jesus didn't teach the Greatest Commandments for no reason; love is the very New Covenant reason for obedience, the right motivation for that obedience as opposed to blind insincere drudgery or sense of obligation based solely on fear or legalism. Love should be every Christian's goal; most vagueness about it would be due to the fact that we don't yet know it as well as God desires us to-and will help us to.
Why do you think selfish pursuit of personal happiness at the expense of the happiness is the teaching of the church and yet say at the end the opposite? (Some of us do know it as well as God desires us to, btw.)
Anyway, here's Basil of Cesarea from the 3rd or 4th century speaking:
"If we turn away from evil out of fear of punishment, we are in the position of slaves. If we pursue the enticement of wages, . . . we resemble mercenaries. Finally if we obey for the sake of the good itself and out of love for him who commands . . . we are in the position of children."
He who turns away from evil for fear of punishment is better than he who does evil fearing no punishment at all. If a man has ever been truly discipled or punished by God, he would know the foolishness of the above statement. It sounds lofty and noble but the human heart is such that punishment is a motivation that teaches a man to do good. Eventually he will do good for other reasons but at least he is still doing good along the way. Waiting for the right motive to do good will embed doing evil all along the way quite nicely.

I personally know a man who stole a monitor at work and because he was about to be taken to court, he returned it. He was not doing it out of love but fear of punishment. The people who got their monitor returned did not care the motive. They just wanted their stolen property back.
 
Upvote 0

dreadnought

Lip service isn't really service.
Site Supporter
Aug 4, 2012
7,730
3,466
71
Reno, Nevada
✟313,356.00
Country
United States
Faith
United Methodist
Marital Status
Celibate
Clarify yes, who throughout Scripture is granted eternal life ? Who is not ?

IN the New Testament, who suffers ? Why ? Is there ANYONE in the New Testament who does NOT suffer ? Why ?
Sometimes a little common sense suffices. If you obey the Lord's commandments, you get life.
 
Upvote 0

dreadnought

Lip service isn't really service.
Site Supporter
Aug 4, 2012
7,730
3,466
71
Reno, Nevada
✟313,356.00
Country
United States
Faith
United Methodist
Marital Status
Celibate
This is way too simple. We suffer because of the sins of others as well of which we are completely innocent of as regarding sin. The goal of following Jesus to be like him. Happiness is one feeling among others in life. All sunshine and no rain only makes a desert. God's goal is that we be like Jesus, not that we personally experience happiness.
Way too simple? Where did the Lord tell us life was complicated?
 
Upvote 0

dreadnought

Lip service isn't really service.
Site Supporter
Aug 4, 2012
7,730
3,466
71
Reno, Nevada
✟313,356.00
Country
United States
Faith
United Methodist
Marital Status
Celibate
So if the police came and arrested you on trumpted up charges and threw you in the worse jail in the country, that would not bother you?
It might vex me till the Lord calmed me down, but the real trouble begins when we start experiencing the consequences of our sin.
 
Upvote 0

dreadnought

Lip service isn't really service.
Site Supporter
Aug 4, 2012
7,730
3,466
71
Reno, Nevada
✟313,356.00
Country
United States
Faith
United Methodist
Marital Status
Celibate
Jesus promised eternal life, not eternal happiness. There is a problem that developes in the man who makes being happy, eternal or otherwise, the goal. It is completely self centered.
The Lord is a great God, quite capable of teaching us how to be happy.
 
Upvote 0

dreadnought

Lip service isn't really service.
Site Supporter
Aug 4, 2012
7,730
3,466
71
Reno, Nevada
✟313,356.00
Country
United States
Faith
United Methodist
Marital Status
Celibate
I am pretty sure that when Christians are murdered, especially under torture, even for their Saviour, they did not think it was no big deal. You are forgetting that pain is considered trouble and a lot more than trouble.
I've heard some were anxious to be martyred.
 
Upvote 0

dreadnought

Lip service isn't really service.
Site Supporter
Aug 4, 2012
7,730
3,466
71
Reno, Nevada
✟313,356.00
Country
United States
Faith
United Methodist
Marital Status
Celibate
True.

Can you name 3 people you know are blameless in Yahweh's Judgment (Sight) , who have a clear conscience in His Presence TODAY on earth ? (not even one tiny thing known against them)
Once you repent of your sin, you are forgiven and have a clear conscience.
 
Upvote 0

yeshuaslavejeff

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
Jan 6, 2005
39,944
11,098
okie
✟214,996.00
Faith
Anabaptist
Luke 6:25 Woe to you who are well fed now, for you will hunger. Woe ...
https://biblehub.com/luke/6-25.htm
What sorrow awaits you who laugh now, for your laughing will turn to mourning and sorrow. English Standard Version “Woe to you who are full now, for you shall ...

Luke 6:25 Commentaries: "Woe to you who are well-fed now, for you ...
biblehub.com/commentaries/luke/6-25.htm
Woe to you that laugh now! for you shall mourn and weep. Jump to: ... That laugh now - Are happy, or thoughtless, or joyful, or filled with levity. Shall mourn and ...

Luke 6:26 Woe to you when all men speak well of you, for their fathers ...
https://biblehub.com/luke/6-26.htm
Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets. ... Woe to you who laugh now, for you will mourn and weep.
Missing: happy ‎| ‎Must include: ‎happy

Luke 6:25 - Bible Gateway
https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Luke 6:25
Woe to you who are well-fed (gorged, satiated) now, for you will be hungry. Woe to you who laugh now [enjoying a life of self-indulgence], for you will mourn and ...
Missing: happy ‎| ‎Must include: ‎happy
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

dreadnought

Lip service isn't really service.
Site Supporter
Aug 4, 2012
7,730
3,466
71
Reno, Nevada
✟313,356.00
Country
United States
Faith
United Methodist
Marital Status
Celibate
Almost no one I know, including on the forum, has a clear conscience. (upon questioning)

Wonder why ?
I bet there are lots of people who have repented of their sin, who therefore have been forgiven, who therefore have clear consciences.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Dorothy Mae
Upvote 0

yeshuaslavejeff

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
Jan 6, 2005
39,944
11,098
okie
✟214,996.00
Faith
Anabaptist
oh oh oh.......

now? feel guilty conscience for betting ? ! and then for losing the bet too !!!
I bet there are lots of people who have repented of their sin, who therefore have been forgiven, who therefore have clear consciences.
 
Upvote 0

dreadnought

Lip service isn't really service.
Site Supporter
Aug 4, 2012
7,730
3,466
71
Reno, Nevada
✟313,356.00
Country
United States
Faith
United Methodist
Marital Status
Celibate
oh oh oh.......

now? feel guilty conscience for betting ? ! and then for losing the bet too !!!
Out here in Reno, where gambling is big business, I learned my lesson about gambling early. The odds aren't in our favor.
 
Upvote 0

Dorothy Mae

Well-Known Member
May 26, 2018
5,657
1,017
Canton south of Germany
✟75,214.00
Country
Switzerland
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Way too simple? Where did the Lord tell us life was complicated?
He didn’t need to do so. Everyone knows it’s complicated without being told. He didn’t tell us to eat or breathe or sleep either. Doesn’t mean we fail to do these things. God doesn’t tell us the obvious. He teaches that which is not so obvious unless you have the mind of Christ (think like He does.)
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Dorothy Mae

Well-Known Member
May 26, 2018
5,657
1,017
Canton south of Germany
✟75,214.00
Country
Switzerland
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
The Lord is a great God, quite capable of teaching us how to be happy.
Except he has no desire to do that which we selfishly pursue without any help. His stated goal is to teach us to want the happiness of others as much as we naturally want our own.
 
Upvote 0

yeshuaslavejeff

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
Jan 6, 2005
39,944
11,098
okie
✟214,996.00
Faith
Anabaptist
  • Like
Reactions: dreadnought
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

dreadnought

Lip service isn't really service.
Site Supporter
Aug 4, 2012
7,730
3,466
71
Reno, Nevada
✟313,356.00
Country
United States
Faith
United Methodist
Marital Status
Celibate
He didn’t need to do so. Everyone knows it’s complicated without being told. He didn’t tell us to eat or breathe or sleep either. Doesn’t mean we fail to do these things. God doesn’t tell us the obvious. He teaches that which is not so obvious unless you have the mind of Christ (think like He does.)
The Lord wants us to obey a few commandments. I don't consider that complicated, though.
 
Upvote 0