THE LORD'S DAY IS THE SABBATH DAY NOT SUNDAY!

Small Fish · Aug 7, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
Hi All,

This thread is for scripture only. We would like to show that the "LORD'S DAY" that many proclaim is SUNDAY is a false teaching and you will not find this in God's WORD.

Let's start by looking at your scriptures that many use to claim SUNDAY is the "LORD'S DAY"

REVELATIONS 1:9-11 [9] I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. [10], I was in the Spirit on the LORD'S DAY, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, [11], Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What you see, write in a book, and send it to the seven churches which are in Asia; to Ephesus, and to Smyrna, and to Pergamos, and to Thyatira, and to Sardis, and to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.

No doubt about it Revelations 1:10 clearly says that John was in the SPIRIT on the "LORD'S DAY"!

NOW the only problem you have is the need to show scripture that says SUNDAY IS THE LORD'S DAY.

Can you please provide scripture that says SUNDAY or the FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK is the "LORD'S DAY"?

If you cannot find any scriptures to say that SUNDAY is the "LORD'S DAY" then you have a problem.

.............

Now let's look at the scriptures that give the answer to our question

Q. WHAT DAY IS THE "LORD'S DAY" ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE?
A. MATTHEW 12:8 [8], For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

Which day is the Lord's Day? THE SABBATH DAY (MATTHEW 12:8; MARK 2:27-28)

God's WORD says that the SABBATH DAY IS THE LORD'S DAY!

There is NO scripture that says Sunday or the FIRST DAY of the week is the Lords Day. God's Word says the Lord's day is the Sabbath day. This is the day God rested on, he set apart and made a Holy day at the completion of the creation week and made a memorial for all mankind (Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11). Jesus is the God of creation and he is the Lord of the Sabbath day (Matthew 12:8; Mark 2:27-28)

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Now friend's the SABBATH is the 4th Commandment of God's 10 Commandments and there is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says that God's 4th Commandment has been ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep SUNDAY as a HOLY DAY. The same as there is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says that SUNDAY is the LORD'S DAY.

John in the book of REVELATIONS 1:10 was in the SPIRIT on the SABBATH DAY not SUNDAY!

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HOW WAS THE LORD'S DAY CHANGED TO SUNDAY?

SUNDAY Worship is a teaching and tradition of men handed down by the Roman Catholic Church that has lead many to break and ignore God's 4th Commandment (Exodus 20:8-11)

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ARE YOU FOLLOWING A MAN MADE TRADITION IN SUNDAY WORSHIP?

God's WORD is very clear. If we follow the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God then we are not following God...

MATTHEW 15:3-9
[3], But he answered and said to them, Why do you also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
[4], For God commanded, saying, Honor your father and mother: and, He that curses father or mother, let him die the death.
[5], But you say, Whoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatever you might be profited by me;
[6], And honor not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have you made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.
[7], You hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
[8], This people draws near to me with their mouth, and honors me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
[9], But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Who do we believe and follow? The teachings and traditions of men or the WORD of God? Only God's WORD is true and we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God.

.................

SIN is breaking any of God's 10 Commandments (Romans 7:7; Romans 3:20; James 2:11; 1 John 3:4) Those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT ENTER the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

.................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day.

In times of ignorance God winks at but when as knowledge of the truth has come God calls on all men everywhere to repent and believe his Word (Acts 17:30-31)

God's is calling his people to come out from following the traditions of men to worship him in Spirit and in truth.

..................

God knows many follow these traditions from ignorance because they do not know any better. He loves all and is calling all who have ears to hear and eyes to see. Seek him in prayer asking for his Spirit to guide and teach you. He promises to be your guide and teacher. (John 14:26; 16:13: 7:17)

May God bless you all as you seek him first through his Word. To him be all the glory forever and ever AMEN!

As I understand it and according to the teaching of William Branham it is neither. However, I do believe that the Sabbath fell on a Saturday. But this is merely a type of the real rest that was still to come and that happened at the falling of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost. The anti type of the Saturday rest would therefore be Christ Himself doing away with the old covenant.

The real Sabbath therefore is pointed out in Matthew 11:28-30

28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Furthermore, the visions that John had on the Island of Patmos stretched over a period of two years, not a particular day. This means that he was taken or transported (perhaps by vision) to the future and is the very same event as refer to by Malachi 4.

4 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts.
4 Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments.
5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:
6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

Here it is very clear that the day of the Lord is the Coming of Christ. So it could obviously not be either Sunday nor Saturday. Today is the day of man but the day of the Lord is at hand.

I think Paul says it nicely in Hebrews 4

5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

Christ is the fulfillment of that rest as he is the fulfillment of the daily sacrifice and every other type, shadow and symbol of the New Testament. So why do we go to church on a Sunday now? It is to honer the Resurrection. This is the new covenant.

LoveGodsWord · Aug 7, 2018

Hello Small Fish, BIG Welcome to this OP and very nice to meet you

Some comments for your consideration below.

Small Fish said:
As I understand it and according to the teaching of William Branham it is neither.

Thanks for your thoughts here but who is William Branham and why should he be believed over the Word of God?

Small Fish said:
However, I do believe that the Sabbath fell on a Saturday. But this is merely a type of the real rest that was still to come and that happened at the falling of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost. The anti type of the Saturday rest would therefore be Christ Himself doing away with the old covenant.

You are getting your Shadows laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT mixed up with God's ETERNAL LAWS (10 commandments) that give us the KNOWLEDGE of good and evil, sin and righteousness that are the very standard of the OLD and NEW COVENANT and the JUDGMENT to come (Romans 3:20; 7:7; James 2:11; 1 John 3:4).

All the Shadow (types) laws were prophetic in nature given after the fall of mankind and pointed to Jesus and God's plan of salvation in the MOSIAC BOOK of the OLD COVENANT.

Some questions for your consideration.

Q. How can God's 4th Commandment SABBATH be a SHADOW law when it was part of a COMPLETED WORK (Shadows and types are not completed) at creation BEFORE sin entered into the world and before God's plan of salvation was revealed?

The Sabbath was made BEFORE SIN when mankind was in perfect harmony with God so is neither prophetic in nature or part of God's plan of salvation so cannot be a type or Shadow law because it was made when there was no sin and no plan of salvation (Genesis 2:1-3)

SHADOW LAWS and SCRIPTURE SUPPORT HERE CLICK ME (see PARTS 1-6).

Small Fish said:
The real Sabbath therefore is pointed out in Matthew 11:28-30
28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

MATTHEW 11:28-30 says nothing about the Sabbath. It is talking about BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God's WORD and resting in Christ for forgiveness of SIN. None enter into God's SABBATH rest without first entering into God's Gospel rest. (HEBREWS 4:1-5; 9-10)

Small Fish said:
Furthermore, the visions that John had on the Island of Patmos stretched over a period of two years, not a particular day.

Your point here is irrelavant as Revelation 1:10 "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day is only discussing what John saw and was revealed to him on this day.

Small Fish said:
This means that he was taken or transported (perhaps by vision) to the future and is the very same event as refer to by Malachi 4.

4 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts.
4 Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments.
5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:
6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

Not in Revelation 1:10-20. The topic and CONTEXT is that John was in the Spirit on the Lord's day which Matthew 12:8 says is the Sabbath day and that he was speaking to Jesus in the Heavenly Sanctuary not the 2nd coming and day of God's wrath.

Small Fish said:
Here it is very clear that the day of the Lord is the Coming of Christ. So it could obviously not be either Sunday nor Saturday. Today is the day of man but the day of the Lord is at hand.

Both the scripture word meanings and the within scripture and shapter topic CONTEXTS disagree with your interpretations. Please see post # 538 linked and post # 540 linked. God's Word disagrees with you here. If you disagree please address the two linked posts above.

Small Fish said:
I think Paul says it nicely in Hebrews 4

5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

Agreed

. But what is God's REST that we are talking about here? You left out the scritures from your post above. Let's have a look.

HEBREWS 4:1-10
1, Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into HIS REST, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2, For to us was the gospel preached, as well as to them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3, For we which have believed do enter into REST, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into MY REST: although the WORKS WERE FINISHED FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD.
4, FOR HE SPOKE IN A CERTAIN PLACE OF THE SEVENTH DAY ON THIS WISE, AND GOD DID REST THE SEVENTH DAY FROM ALL HIS WORKS.
5, And in this place again, If they shall enter into MY REST.

NOTE: CONTEXT is God's REST from the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH REST OF CREATION (v4-5) and those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW GOD's WORD enter into God's SABBATH REST as GOD did on the SEVENTH DAY of the week. CONTEXT is GOD's SEVENTH DAY SABBATH REST and those who believe or do not believe God's WORD and enter into that rest.

6, Seeing therefore it remains that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7, Again, he limits a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if you will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8, For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9, There remains a SABBATH REST to the people of God.
10, For he that is entered into his rest (v9 SABBATH REST), he also has ceased from his own works, as God did from his [reference to Genesis 2:1-3].
11, Let us labor therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief (Heb 3).

HEBREWS 3-4 is talking about none can enter into God's SEVENTH DAY SABBATH REST without first entering into God's gospel rest of BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God's WORD.

Small Fish said:
Christ is the fulfillment of that rest as he is the fulfillment of the daily sacrifice and every other type, shadow and symbol of the New Testament. So why do we go to church on a Sunday now? It is to honer the Resurrection. This is the new covenant.

God's 4th Commandment SABBATH is not a Shadow Sabbath. There are Shadow Sabbaths however outlined in Leviticus 23 attached to annual festivals that can fall on any day of the week. These however are not God's 4th Commandment and have a different purpose as outlined in the MOSAIC Shdow laws in the BOOK of the COVENANT.

SHADOW LAWS and SCRIPTURE SUPPORT HERE CLICK ME (see PARTS 1-6).

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

Hope this helps. :wave:

bekkilyn · Aug 7, 2018

Conditional salvation through works of law is a false gospel regardless of how many long lists of scripture verses are cherry-picked and quoted out of context to support the ritual sabbath agenda.

LoveGodsWord · Aug 7, 2018

bekkilyn said:
Conditional salvation through works of law is a false gospel regardless of how many long lists of scripture verses are cherry-picked and quoted out of context to support the ritual sabbath agenda.

Hi bekkilyn, nice to see you. No one is saying what you are saying. No one is saved by works, as all are saved by GRACE through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast (Ephesians 2:8)

Many do not know why God has given us his GRACE.

WHAT IS GRACE FOR?

ROMANS 1:5, By whom we have received GRACE and apostleship, FOR OBEDIENCE TO THE FAITH among all nations, for his name.

Romans 6:1-2, [1] What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. [2], How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

DOES FAITH ABOLISH GOD'S LAW?

ROMANS 3:31 [31], Do we then ABOLISH THE LAW THROUGH FAITH? GOD FORBID: YES, WE ESTABLISH THE LAW.

Work's are the FRUIT of faith and is why James says

JAMES 2:20 [20] But will you know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Only God's WORD is true and we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God.

HOW DO YOU KNOW IF YOU KNOW GOD?

1 John 2
3, And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4, He that said, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 3
3, And every man that has this hope in him purifies himself, even as he is pure.
4, Whoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5, And you know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6, Whoever stays in him sins not: whoever sins has not seen him, neither known him.
7, Little children, let no man deceive you: he that does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8, He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9, Whoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10, In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whoever does not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother.

WHO ARE GOD'S PEOPLE?

Revelation 12
17, And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ

Revelation 14
12, Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

WHO ARE THOSE THAT RECEIVE ETERNAL LIFE?

Revelation 22
14, Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

The False Gospel is one that says you can get to Heaven while living a life of KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN.

SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4) Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

Seems God's WORD disagrees with you. Do you have any scripture to share?

Hope this helps

bekkilyn · Aug 7, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
Hi bekkilyn, nice to see you. No one is saying what you are saying. No one is saved by works, as all are saved by GRACE through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast (Ephesians 2:8)

You *say* that no one is saved by works and that all are saved by grace through faith (which is true) and *then* you go on to state that Jesus' free gift of grace is conditional to earning salvation through works of law (which is not true and conflicts with the entire concept of grace through faith).

If we could earn salvation through obeying the sabbath or any other law, there would be NO NEED for Jesus' death on the cross. Earning salvation through ritual observation of sabbath makes his sacrifice pointless because we could then already earn salvation without him by simply literally following the Mosaic law (which includes the 10 commandments).

There would be NO NEED for a new covenant because the old covenant worked just fine.

If you believe that grace has anything to do with observing a seventh day sabbath in order to be saved, then you need to keep reading scripture with the help of the Holy Spirit.

We cannot make an idol of a day of the week. Jesus must be first and central.

LoveGodsWord · Aug 7, 2018

bekkilyn said:
You *say* that no one is saved by works and that all are saved by grace through faith (which is true) and *then* you go on to state that Jesus' free gift of grace is conditional to earning salvation through works of law (which is not true and conflicts with the entire concept of grace through faith).

Now bekkilyn, your a funny one

You seem to like saying things no one has said to you and then try to make an argument about it. NO ONE has said anything you are claiming above. Please read the scriptures provided in the previous post. Paul teaches through God's WORD that GRACE is given for OBEDIENCE to the FAITH and FAITH ESTABLSIHES God's LAW in those who BELIEVE God's WORD (Romans 1:5 ; Romans 6:1-2 ; Romans 3:31) and is why JAMES says that OBEDIENCE is the FRUIT of the FAITH you have and if you do not have this fruit you do not have saving FAITH (JAMES 2:18-20) because SIN is the transgression of God's LAW and the wages of sin is death because those who KNOWINGLY CONTINUE in SIN have rejected the GIFT of God's dear son (Romans 3:20; 7:7; James 2:11; 1 John 3:4; Romans 6:23; Hebrews 10:26-27)

All the above is God's WORD not mine. Disagree? Where are your scriptures?

bekkilyn said:
If we could earn salvation through obeying the sabbath or any other law, there would be NO NEED for Jesus' death on the cross. Earning salvation through ritual observation of sabbath makes his sacrifice pointless because we could then already earn salvation without him by simply literally following the Mosaic law (which includes the 10 commandments).

You are saying things that NO one is saying to you again. Please post the link that says you are saved by anything you do. Shame on you when you have been told the opposite directly to you multiple times to correct your error then continue you repeat it. This is sad for you bekkilyn. I will leave this between you and God.

bekkilyn said:
There would be NO NEED for a new covenant because the old covenant worked just fine.

How can you know what the NEW COVENANT is if you do not understand the OLD COVENANT Shadows that point to Jesus and God's plan of slavation.

SCRIPTURE SUPPORT HERE CLICK ME.

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11). If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (Romans 3:20; 7:7; James 2:11; 1 John 3:4). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27).

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

Only God's WORD is true and we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW it as it is the WORD of God that will be our judge come judgment day * John 12:47-48.

May God bless you as you seek him through his Word.

bekkilyn · Aug 7, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
Now bekkilyn, your a funny one

You are saying things that NO one is saying to you again. Please post the link that says you are saved by anything you do. Shame on you when you have been told the opposite directly to you multiple times to correct your error then continue you repeat it. This is sad for you bekkilyn. I will leave this between you and God.

Then answer with "yes" or "no" to the following: Are Christians (those who have accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior) saved if they do not observe a seventh day sabbath?

A simple "yes" or "no" will do in order not to obscure the answer.

sparow · Aug 7, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
Hi sparow,

Nice to hear from you and thanks for your thoughts, while I love the scriptures you have provided on the "Day of the Lord" and also believe them in relation and context to the 2nd coming and God's judgment. Your application to these scriptures as a reference to Revelation 1:10 does not make any sense as your

1. trying to compare Hebrew word's to Greek word's that have a different meaning and
2. your not considering the within scripture and chapter context of your Hebrew words within the OLD TESTAMENT scriptures to the GREEK words used in the NEW TESTAMENT scriptures (Revelation 1:10).

Let's take a quick look at the scriptures you have quoted in both the OLD and NEW TESTAMENT.

All the OLD TESTAMENT scriptures you have quoted earlier from Isaiah 13:9, Jeremiah 46:10 , Joel 1:15 , Joel 2:1 , Joel 2:11 , Joel 2:31, Zephaniah 1:8 , Zephaniah 1:18 , Zephaniah 2:3 , Malachi 4:4-5 use the Hebrew for "Day of the Lord" Hebrew is יום יהוה
means day of yehôvâh or day of God.

The CONTEXT of and reference of the day in every one of these OLD TESTAMENT scriptures is in reference to;

yehôvâh's (God's)...

1. day of anger (Is 13:9; Zeph 2:3)
2. day of wrath, (Is 13:9; Zeph 1:18)
3. day of vengence, (Jer 46:10)
4. terrible day, (Joel 2:11; 31; Mal 4:5)
5. who can abide this day (Joel 2:11)
6. day to destroy sinners (Is 13:9; Joel 1:15
7. day to tremble (Joel 2:1)
8. day to punish (Zeph 1:8)

So the CONTEXT of the day used here is to the Lord's anger, wrath, vengence, to punish, destroy sinners. It is a terrible day where all will tremble. This is the COTEXT reference to all these scriptures used in reference to the "day"

.............

Now compare all the above scripture from the HEBREW OLD TESTAMENT we have different GREEK words and context being used. Let's look at the scriptures and GREEK word meanings again. We will then latter compare these to the NEW TESTAMENT scriptures you provided.

Revelation 1:10-20
[10], I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, [
[11], Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What you see, write in a book, and send it to the seven churches which are in Asia; to Ephesus, and to Smyrna, and to Pergamos, and to Thyatira, and to Sardis, and to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.
[12], And I turned to see the voice that spoke with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;
[13], And in the middle of the seven candlesticks one like to the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the breasts with a golden girdle.
[14], His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;
[15], And his feet like to fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.
[16], And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp two edged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shines in his strength.
[17], And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand on me, saying to me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
[18], I am he that lives, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for ever more, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
[19], Write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;
[20], The mystery of the seven stars which you saw in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which you saw are the seven churches.

Now I could have posted the whole chapter. I wanted to highlight the CONTEXT of v10 which is what? John is taken in VISION to Jesus as our great high priest in the Heavenly Sanctuary. It is NOT the DAY OF THE LORD'S VENGENCE or second coming. Jesus is talking to John in the midst of the seven golden candle sticks in the Heavenly Sanctuary.

Now let's look at the scripture again in v10. John says in v10

"I was in the Spirit on the "Lord's day" the meaning and scripture CONTEXT is different here to what you have provided in the OLD TESTAMENT HEBREW. The OLD TESTAMENT HEBREW was "day of the Lord" wrath, vengence, to punish, destroy sinners. It is a terrible day where all will tremble.

The GREEK use of the word "Lord's Day" is " κυριακή ημέρα; day belonging to the Lord. John says he was in the Spirit on the day belonging to the Lord. Where was John in Vision?

[12], And I turned to see the voice that spoke with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;
[13], And in the middle of the seven candlesticks one like to the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the breasts with a golden girdle.
[14], His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;

..............

CONCLUSION: John was in the Spirit on the Lord's day in the Heavenly Sancuary not the day of the Lord's wrath.

..............

Finally, let's look at the three GREEK NEW TESTAMENT scriptures used which where Acts 2:20; 1 Thessalonians 5:22 and 2 Peter 3:10. All three scriptures use ημέρα κυρίου "day of the Lord" this is the same in meaning as GREEK "DAY OF THE GOD". The CONTEXT once again in all three scriptures is similar to the OLD TESTAMENT scriptures you quoted. That is it is the day of anger, wrath, vengence, to punish, destroy sinners. It is a terrible day where all will tremble. 2nd Coming.

Now notice the the GREEK word used in Revelation 1:10 is different to ημέρα κυρίου "day of the Lord". In Revelation 1:10 the GREEK words κυριακή ημέρα; which mean "day belonging to the Lord". Within scripture CONTEXT means John was "in the Spirit on the day belonging to the Lord". John was taken in the Spirit on the Lord's day to the Heavenly Sanctuary and spoke with Jesus.

Hope this helps.

I am enjoying this exchange but I do not agree with your assessment of what I am trying to do and not doing; I am not as sophisticated as you imply while you are sounding like a dispensationalist and not an SDA.

I believe you are mistaken about the meaning of "in the spirit". While it is difficult to determine what I means, it is easy to determine that it does not mean "in vision"; it appears mean being translated into a spiritual entity, momentarily.

Ezekiel 37:1 (NKJV)
1 The hand of the LORD came upon me and brought me out in the Spirit of the LORD, and set me down in the midst of the valley; and it was full of bones.

Luke 2:25-26 (ASV)
25 And behold, there was a man in Jerusalem whose name was Simeon; and this man was righteous and devout, looking for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Spirit was upon him.
26 And it had been revealed unto him by the Holy Spirit, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ.
27 And he came in the Spirit into the temple: and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, that they might do concerning him after the custom of the law,

There are many verses referring to "in the spirit" none imply in vision. I believe john was actually there but his tour of the day of the lord doesn't begin until the opening of the seals in chapter 5.

yeshuaslavejeff · Aug 7, 2018

No.
A simple yes or no is not enough.

Whatever is not of faith is sin - so anything could be sin practically.

IF Jesus is MASTER , "(those who have accepted Jesus as Lord ) " will follow Jesus wherever He Goes, and DO whatever HE says to DO.

It may take decades

for some true disciples/ believers/ Ekklesia born again/
to learn to DO what Jesus says
because
it
often takes DECADES to UNlearn the false things they first learned growing up
because the false gospel fills the earth, and false teachers and false prophets far outnumber the truth.

bekkilyn said:
Then answer with "yes" or "no" to the following: Are Christians (those who have accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior) saved if they do not observe a seventh day sabbath?

A simple "yes" or "no" will do in order not to obscure the answer.

sparow · Aug 7, 2018

bekkilyn said:
You *say* that no one is saved by works and that all are saved by grace through faith (which is true) and *then* you go on to state that Jesus' free gift of grace is conditional to earning salvation through works of law (which is not true and conflicts with the entire concept of grace through faith).

If we could earn salvation through obeying the sabbath or any other law, there would be NO NEED for Jesus' death on the cross. Earning salvation through ritual observation of sabbath makes his sacrifice pointless because we could then already earn salvation without him by simply literally following the Mosaic law (which includes the 10 commandments).

There would be NO NEED for a new covenant because the old covenant worked just fine.

If you believe that grace has anything to do with observing a seventh day sabbath in order to be saved, then you need to keep reading scripture with the help of the Holy Spirit.

We cannot make an idol of a day of the week. Jesus must be first and central.

I'll see if I can help. Communication is difficult.

In the beginning the price of salvation is so great no one could pay the price; no works could earn salvation; I do not know why this is so but I expect it has to do with war in heaven and war crimes.

We are all born condemned to death, but God in his mercy offers us a WAY; remember John and Jesus said make the Way straight. The way God has provided is a contract or covenant; God will do such and such if the person does such and such; God askes that the commandments be kept as a function of being in covenant; in return God provides eternal life, a kingdom, a king.

Hypothetically, suppose you decided to earn your salvation by keeping the Law, what exactly would you do? You might start by not doing ten things; but seriously can one earn anything by doing nothing; does the Law require one does anything; honour your mother and father and remember the seventh day and keep it Holy, Now what is all the fuss about?

bekkilyn · Aug 7, 2018

yeshuaslavejeff said:
No.
A simple yes or no is not enough.

Whatever is not of faith is sin - so anything could be sin practically.

IF Jesus is MASTER , "(those who have accepted Jesus as Lord ) " will follow Jesus wherever He Goes, and DO whatever HE says to DO.

It may take decades

for some true disciples/ believers/ Ekklesia born again/
to learn to DO what Jesus says
because
it
often takes DECADES to UNlearn the false things they first learned growing up
because the false gospel fills the earth, and false teachers and false prophets far outnumber the truth.

If one is going to claim "salvation by grace through faith alone", then a simple yes or no is enough. Otherwise, it's a different argument and not one I'm making at the moment.

If one cannot answer "yes" to my question, then please drop the claim of "salvation by grace through faith alone" because salvation by works/law and salvation by grace are mutually exclusive. And if one is going to attempt salvation by works of law, it needs to be through the *whole* law of the Torah, and not by picking and choosing which laws are to be followed.

sparow said:
I'll see if I can help. Communication is difficult.

In the beginning the price of salvation is so great no one could pay the price; no works could earn salvation; I do not know why this is so but I expect it has to do with war in heaven and war crimes.

We are all born condemned to death, but God in his mercy offers us a WAY; remember John and Jesus said make the Way straight. The way God has provided is a contract or covenant; God will do such and such if the person does such and such; God askes that the commandments be kept as a function of being in covenant; in return God provides eternal life, a kingdom, a king.

Hypothetically, suppose you decided to earn your salvation by keeping the Law, what exactly would you do? You might start by not doing ten things; but seriously can one earn anything by doing nothing; does the Law require one does anything; honour your mother and father and remember the seventh day and keep it Holy, Now what is all the fuss about?

That's not how it works. God is not a vending machine in which we will put in our works of obeying laws and then eternal life will pop out as a reward. We can do *nothing* to earn it...*ever*. Not when we first accept Jesus as Lord and Savior, and not any time afterwards. It is grace and grace alone that saves us.

Now when we turn our lives over to Jesus and are filled with the Holy Spirit, it is through *his* transforming power that we become righteous. When we do things like prayer and studying scripture and yes, even observing a time of sabbath (regardless of time or day), they are a means of grace that help keep ourselves open for Christ to do *his* work in us, to help us grow more mature in our faith.

yeshuaslavejeff · Aug 7, 2018

No.
Especially in English, "NO".

Because, in English, in the western world/ society/ usa/
not
love, and not faith, and not other things are understood as in the Bible are.

Your possibly vain attempt to get just a yes or a no is , quite likely, maybe not on purpose, I think, but due to not understanding what is at stake, or even why, or what the difference is (between what is wrongly understood in the west/ in "English" and what is in line with the Bible ) .

bekkilyn said:
If one is going to claim "salvation by grace through faith alone", then a simple yes or no is enough. Otherwise, it's a different argument and not one I'm making at the moment.

bekkilyn · Aug 7, 2018

yeshuaslavejeff said:
No.
Especially in English, "NO".

Because, in English, in the western world/ society/ usa/
not
love, and not faith, and not other things are understood as in the Bible are.

Your possibly vain attempt to get just a yes or a no is , quite likely, maybe not on purpose, I think, but due to not understanding what is at stake, or even why, or what the difference is (between what is wrongly understood in the west/ in "English" and what is in line with the Bible ) .

But I *am* understanding what "salvation by grace through faith alone" means as defined by most Protestant organizations, and when SDA claim to believe in that statement (which they didn't used to claim in their doctrine until relatively recently), and yet also claim that not observing a seventh day sabbath is the mark of the beast meaning that one *must* follow a law or commandment in order to be saved, it's a huge contradiction to what is understood as "salvation by grace through faith alone".

I don't know whether or not I'm arguing this same point with you since I don't know if Anabaptists make the same claim as SDA.

LoveGodsWord · Aug 7, 2018

bekkilyn said:
Then answer with "yes" or "no" to the following: Are Christians (those who have accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior) saved if they do not observe a seventh day sabbath?

A simple "yes" or "no" will do in order not to obscure the answer.

Here you go I will anwer your question with a question and also help you answer it with God's WORD.

Is someone who is professing to be a Christian but living a life on KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN in a SAVED STATE BEFORE GOD or an UNSAVED STATE BEFORE God? (Hebrews 10:26-27; Act 17:30-31; 1 John 2:3-4; 1 John 3:3-10)

May God help you as you seek him through his Word.

LoveGodsWord · Aug 7, 2018

Hi sparow, nice to see you again. Some comments for your consideration below.

sparow said:
I am enjoying this exchange but I do not agree with your assessment of what I am trying to do and not doing; I am not as sophisticated as you imply while you are sounding like a dispensationalist and not an SDA.

Thanks sparow, I am enjoying our exchanges as well. It is nice to be able to share God's Word and not have someone get upset because it may not agree with something they have been taught somewhere. For me I believe the NEW COVENANT promise includes God as our teacher (Hebrews 8:11; John 14:26; 16:13; 7:17: 8:31-36). For me I prayerfully study God's Word for myself asking Jesus to be my teacher. I must admit I do no know anything about dispensationalist's and had to look up it's meaning. I think if we trust God's WORD that Jesus will guide us into all truth as we seek him through his WORD we will be safe. We should be as the faithful Bareans and check the scriptures daily to see if these things be so (Acts 17:9-10).

sparow said:
I believe you are mistaken about the meaning of "in the spirit". While it is difficult to determine what I means, it is easy to determine that it does not mean "in vision"; it appears mean being translated into a spiritual entity, momentarily.

Maybe you misunderstand what I was sharing when I was talking about John "Vision". I did not put a meaning on what it means to be "in the Spirit". When I was talking about "Vision" this was only in reference to the scripture and chapter CONTEXT in relation to Revelation 1:10 that John saw Jesus in the Heavenly Sanctuary not the 2nd coming or the day of the Lord's wrath.

Thanks for sharing brother sparow,

May God bless you as you seek him through his Word.

LoveGodsWord · Aug 7, 2018

bekkilyn said:
But I *am* understanding what "salvation by grace through faith alone"

Do you really? Then why ignore the scriptures in post #544 linked click me and pretend they mean something else they are not saying when you could not respond to the scriptures presented in this post?

yeshuaslavejeff · Aug 7, 2018

bekkilyn said:
But I *am* understanding what "salvation by grace through faith alone" means as defined by most Protestant organizations, and when SDA claim to believe in that statement (which they didn't used to claim in their doctrine until relatively recently), and yet also claim that not observing a seventh day sabbath is the mark of the beast meaning that one *must* follow a law or commandment in order to be saved, it's a huge contradiction to what is understood as "salvation by grace through faith alone".

I don't know whether or not I'm arguing this same point with you since I don't know if Anabaptists make the same claim as SDA.

Well, is there any reason we know why someone who disagrees with SDA could not be on the same side without knowing it as someone who agrees with SDA - both of these either completely independently not knowing each other, or in some way knowing each other, couldn't both (in spite of various opposing and/or similar beliefs) be willing and might even already today have previously decided by an act of their own choice to accept the mark , regardless of when it is or what it is ? (i.e. irregardless (or regardless?) of what they believe about Yahweh's Seventh Day Sabbath or "The Lord's Day" ) .....

bekkilyn · Aug 7, 2018

yeshuaslavejeff said:
Well, is there any reason we know why someone who disagrees with SDA could not be on the same side without knowing it as someone who agrees with SDA - both of these either completely independently not knowing each other, or in some way knowing each other, couldn't both (in spite of various opposing and/or similar beliefs) be willing and might even already today have previously decided by an act of their own choice to accept the mark , regardless of when it is or what it is ? (i.e. irregardless (or regardless?) of what they believe about Yahweh's Seventh Day Sabbath or "The Lord's Day" ) .....

It's "regardless"...but yes, we really are all on the same side. Even though I believe some SDA beliefs are misplaced and have some serious disagreement with some of their doctrine, I do not question their salvation provided they have accepted Christ, even if they feel they need to do extra to earn it.

One body, many members.

bekkilyn · Aug 7, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
Here you go I will anwer your question with a question and also help you answer it with God's WORD.

Is someone who is professing to be a Christian but living a life on KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN in a SAVED STATE BEFORE GOD or an UNSAVED STATE BEFORE God? (Hebrews 10:26-27; Act 17:30-31; 1 John 2:3-4; 1 John 3:3-10)

May God help you as you seek him through his Word.

As I suspected, it seems you can't answer the question. I already know what my answer is so I do not need help in answering the question for myself. I wanted to know *your* answer because you are claiming two mutually exclusive concepts.

LoveGodsWord said:
Do you really? Then why ignore the scriptures in post #544 linked click me and pretend they mean something else they are not saying when you could not respond to the scriptures presented in this post?

"Salvation by grace through faith alone" doctrine was already defined by Protestant denominations before SDA decided to jump on board and claim it too, even though they also kept all the previous doctrine that conflicted with it. Now you're trying to change the definition.

Dan the deacon · Aug 7, 2018

Lost4words said:
Jesus resurrection was on a Sunday. This is all we need to know that the Lords day, is indeed on a Sunday.

Sounds good to me but I would say that every day belongs to the Lord. The Sabbath is Saturday the word Sabbath mean Saturday. The 7th day folk do not understand why we celebrate Sunday. You told them but they refuse to hear.
Those ten commandments they cannot keep were a schoolmaster designed to.show us how we cannot keep them. And yet they continue trying....And failing.
I trust in Christ. He came because we could not keep God's law. Jesus condensed the 600+ laws to two. We can't even keep the two. That is why we need Him.

THE LORD'S DAY IS THE SABBATH DAY NOT SUNDAY!

Matthew 16:17

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