Two Witnesses now preaching in Jerusalem

DamianWarS · Aug 7, 2018

BABerean2 said:
There are now two witnesses proclaiming the Gospel in the modern city of Jerusalem.

hmm... I always visioned them with bigger beards

Bible Highlighter · Aug 7, 2018

TribulationSigns said:
How do you know it is still future if you claim that we do not know until it happens. That is absurd. That means you will not accept anything that the Scripture says that may be taken place that Jesus warned, "if you receive it." Not everyone will accept the truth because many people are in denial that John the Baptist was Elijah that was prophesied to come while insisting that we do not know that until the coming of Prophet Elijah actually happens in the future!

Are you trying to play a card of martyr complex here or something?

Only from the Spirit of God as He wills.

Tell me, why should we study to show ourselves approved unto God? Is it not to search out for truth and yes, Truth hurts. It is supposed to offend people. But you are all about "love" thinking that to avoid hurting their feeling is more important than apage love by telling them the Truth.

So you view as My testimony with Scripture concerning John the Baptist with spirit and power of Elijah considered as "bite and attack?" No, it means that you are offended by the truth. Should I be careful not to offend your feeling with my knowledge? No. I am only a witness and testify to God's Word. It is God who you need to deal with. If you want to refute my testimony, show us the Scripture. Not your sensibilities.

No, we deal with the truth on all subjects. By the way, do you realize that we are not discussing salvation here?

Seriously?! Whatever God says in the Bible is not important? To know whether John the Baptist is prophet Elijah was to come is not important? It "IS" important because to deny this is why people came up with the false doctrine of Dispentastiontism.

LOL! No, to walk with the Lord is to testify what Scripture says is true, whether its about Salvation, baptism, marriage, and divorce, abortion, homosexualities, or speaking in tongues, etc. Not about being careful not to offend someone's feeling with Truth. You must testify to what the Word of God says and allow the Spirit of God (Holy Spirit) decide how it affects the hearers.

Do you really understand what the verse is saying?

1st Corinthians 13:8

"Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away."

1. Prophecies shall [katargeo] fail, or be rendered voided.
2. Tongues shall [pauo] cease.
3. Knowledge shall [katargeo] vanish away, or be rendered voided.

Why? Because (as is written), God says partial knowledge and partial prophecy. That's what shall vanish away [katargeo], or be made idle. "By implication," this is what we won't have anymore. Partial knowledge and partial prophecy. We will have full knowledge and full ability to declare God's Word. The partial will be voided when that which is perfect has come (We'll know even as we are known), but languages shall cease all together.

Note that for tongues (diverse languages) God use a different word [pauo] to separate it from the partial (knowledge and prophecy), and to signify it will cease/stop all together. It is not something we have in part (as knowledge and prophecy). Those Christians who have the gift of different languages can both speak, and often interpret languages perfectly and fully now. It didn't stop when the Bible was completed. This gift is necessary to evangelize the world. But when Christ comes, different languages are no longer necessary because we will be caught up to be with Christ. it will cease. But agape love never fails [ekpipto] or "becomes ineffective" because it is the work of Christ in us.

1st John 4:19

"We love him, because he first loved us."

That's the only reason that it will never fail. The Charity, the work of God's 'agapao' love, the generosity of God in us, is why it never fails. While languages, cease and "partial" knowledge and "partial" prophecy disappears. Selah!

What do you think? What does God want you to do to find out the Truth? Have you already forgotten already that you need to go to Scripture and "study to show ourselves approved unto God" and find out?

Here is an example of how I find out. You asked if Two Witnesses will breath literal fire? I go to Scripture:

Jeremiah 5:14 KJV
[14] Wherefore thus saith the LORD God of hosts, Because ye speak this word, behold, I will make my words in thy mouth fire, and this people wood, and it shall devour them.

Compare Scripture with Scripture, God is saying that Two Witnesses will come with power (Holy Spirit) to testify God's Word as fire upon those who do not want to hear the Truth. This is how the word of God judges them as fire. Symbolically! It is OUR TESTIMONY, as two edged sword that brings salvation and judgment. Selah!

Don't tell me that you also believe some individuals will spew frogs literally out of their mouths in Revelation 16:13, as well?!

Point being, I have a Scripture as a proof of how the fire proceedeth out of Two Witnesses' mouth. But your problem is that you do not have one but instead going after speculations or man's vain imaginations because it sounds more exciting that should belong to Hollywood.

Offended much?

You appear to have all the answers but you are not talking to me in a loving and respectful way. Good day to you, sir.

May God bless you.
I am moving on from talking to you.
I do wish you all the best in Christ Jesus.

TribulationSigns · Aug 7, 2018

Jason0047 said:
You appear to have all the answers.
I am moving on from talking to you.
I do wish you all the best in Christ Jesus.

Okay!

Luk 21:15
For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.

You did not offer any biblical refute to the discussion because you could not gainsay or resist. You are more concerned about sensibilities.

You have a good day!

BABerean2 · Aug 7, 2018

Brian Mcnamee said:
Hi it is a bit funny that you rest your case that the abomination of desolation is past tense because the Jews understood it to be.

John 10:22

(CJB) Then came Hanukkah in Yerushalayim. It was winter,

(ESV) At that time the Feast of Dedication took place at Jerusalem. It was winter,

(Geneva) And it was at Hierusalem the feast of the Dedication, and it was winter.

(Greek NT TR) εγενετο δε τα εγκαινια εν τοις ιεροσολυμοις και χειμων ην

(GW) The Festival of the Dedication of the Temple took place in Jerusalem during the winter.

(LITV-TSP) And the Feast of Dedication took place in Jerusalem, and it was winter.

(KJV) And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter.

(KJV+) AndG1161 it wasG1096 atG1722 JerusalemG2414 theG3588 feast of the dedication,G1456 andG2532 it wasG2258 winter.G5494

(NKJV) Now it was the Feast of Dedication in Jerusalem, and it was winter.

..........................................................................

The area now known as "The Temple Mount" is the remains of Roman Fort Antonia. See the link below.

http://askelm.com/temple/t980504.htm

What did Jesus say about not one temple stone being left stacked upon another in Matthew 24:1-3, and Luke 19:41-44?

..........................................................................

.

shilohsfoal · Aug 7, 2018

Is it raining?
https://www.breakingisraelnews.com/109330/unusual-summer-rain-is-god-crying-on-jerusalem/

Alistair_Wonderland · Aug 7, 2018

Handmaid for Jesus said:
Yes, these two. What would do it for me is fire coming out of their mouths destroying their enemies.

Yeah. Call me Thomas, but I've seen too many fakers to believe something without a little proof. The Bible says to 'test the spirits' after all. And it would be pretty hard for a faker to shoot enough fire out of his mouth to consume anybody who attacked him. (And in this modern age, that probably means duds with machine guns.)

That said, when the real dudes show up, I wanna see the fireworks. :blink:

BABerean2 · Aug 7, 2018

Alistair_Wonderland said:
That said, when the real dudes show up, I wanna see the fireworks.

Some of us are expecting what was portrayed in the Left Behind movies, which are a work of fiction.

Here it is for your consumption.

However, notice that what the witnesses in the movie say about Jesus Christ is the same thing being said today by the witnesses, in the first post of this thread.

It is the same Gospel, no matter who the witness would be.
(Galatians 1:6-9)

Can we tell the difference between a work of fiction and the real thing?

Rev 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

Rev 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

Rom 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

Mat_18:16 But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that 'BY THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY WORD MAY BE ESTABLISHED.'

ct_1:8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth."

If you have placed your faith in the shed blood of Jesus Christ, and have been "born again" of the Spirit of God (John 3:1-8), and you want to see one of the witnesses, go look in the mirror.

When was the last time you shared the Gospel with someone who is not a believer?

.

Bible Highlighter · Aug 7, 2018

TribulationSigns said:
Okay!

Luk 21:15
For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.

You did not offer any biblical refute to the discussion because you could not gainsay or resist. You are more concerned about sensibilities.

You have a good day!

You haven’t proved that the two witnesses are just the spirit of Elijah and not literally Elijah and Moses in regards to Revelation. You need to actually find a verse or two that proves what you say. Give me just one or two verses that says that the spirit of Elijah is going to be the witness during the End Times.

As for sensibilities:

What are the fruits of the Spirit and can you describe each of them for me in how that relates to treating others?

Do you believe it is possible to hate your brother with words?

Ever read 1 John 3 lately?

Eloy Craft · Aug 7, 2018

chevyontheriver said:
Enoch and Elijah were apparently assumed into heaven and they may just come back. I will wait and see.

I don't think they entered the heaven behind the veil and I think they wait still to fulfill their purpose at the final persecution. They are immortal body and soul but not eternal. They receive that after they are martyrd when God says "Come up here".IMO

Myychael · Aug 7, 2018

usexpat97 said:
If these two witnesses shut the skies up and keep it from raining all over earth, then I will listen.

That would put me in a Happy Dance

Douggg · Aug 7, 2018

Jason0047 said:
You haven’t proved that the two witnesses are just the spirit of Elijah and not literally Elijah and Moses in regards to Revelation. You need to actually find a verse (or two verses together) that proves what you say. Give me just one (or two) verse(s) that says that the spirit of Elijah is going to be the witness during the End Times.

As for sensibilities:

What are the fruits of the Spirit and can you describe each of them for me in light of how you would treat others?

Do you believe it is possible to hate your brother with words?

Ever read 1 John 3 lately?

Did not Paul say we are to speak full of grace seasoned with salt?

Since Moses and Elijah appeared to some of the disciples on the Mt. of Transfiguration - then it has already been shown that they can appear to humans.

And what would have been the purpose of Moses and Elijah appearing there with Jesus - except as two witnesses to the disciples - Jews - that Jesus was the messiah.

The two witnesses's testimony time to prophesy is 1260 days - which we are not in that time yet.

Revelation 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

Bible Highlighter · Aug 7, 2018

Douggg said:
Since Moses and Elijah appeared to some of the disciples on the Mt. of Transfiguration - then it has already been shown that they can appear to humans.

And what would have been the purpose of Moses and Elijah appearing there with Jesus - except as two witnesses to the disciples - Jews - that Jesus was the messiah.

The two witnesses's testimony time to prophesy is 1260 days - which we are not in that time yet.

Revelation 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

Yes, that sounds logical to me. I agree.

shilohsfoal · Aug 7, 2018

According to other scripture,who is in control of Jerusalem while the two witnesses occupy Jerusalem?

Douggg · Aug 7, 2018

shilohsfoal said:
According to other scripture,who is in control of Jerusalem while the two witnesses occupy Jerusalem?

The Antichrist, perceived messiah to the Jews at that time. His EU military will be occupying the middle east and controlling the oil, under the justification of peace and stability in the region.

shilohsfoal · Aug 7, 2018

Douggg said:
The Antichrist, perceived messiah to the Jews at that time. His EU military will be occupying the middle east and controlling the oil, under the justification of peace and stability in the region.

So you believe the EU will take place of the united states in Israel?Do you believe theEU will do this by force or do you believe Israel and the united states will ask the EU to step in a take control of Jerusalem?

BABerean2 · Aug 7, 2018

Jason0047 said:
You haven’t proved that the two witnesses are just the spirit of Elijah and not literally Elijah and Moses in regards to Revelation. You need to actually find a verse or two that proves what you say.

Deu 34:5 So Moses the servant of the LORD died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the LORD.

Deu 34:6 And he buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, over against Bethpeor: but no man knoweth of his sepulchre unto this day.

What part of "died" and "buried" do you not understand?

.

usexpat97 · Aug 7, 2018

Aren't the two witnesses NOT buried?

TribulationSigns · Aug 7, 2018

Oh, you are back to talk to me again? You must have missed me already!

Jason0047 said:
You haven’t proved that the two witnesses are just the spirit of Elijah and not literally Elijah and Moses in regards to Revelation.

Obviously, you did not research by comparing Scripture with Scripture on who God sees as Two Witnesses of Revelation 11. They are not two literal men with supernatural powers or anything like that. I am going to save my time here by linking to much misunderstood Two Witnesses, their work, power, prophesy, and their killing at the hands of the Beast from the bottomless pit for you to read.

You need to actually find a verse or two that proves what you say. Give me just one or two verses that says that the spirit of Elijah is going to be the witness during the End Times.

I have provides some Scripture in my previous posts. Not satisfied yet? Do yourself a favor and read the study provided above.

As for sensibilities:

Do you believe it is possible to hate your brother with words?

Ever read 1 John 3 lately?

There are lots of definitions of love floating around in the Christian community, but not all of them are love "as God defines it." Some are nothing but caring for someone, some are but emotions, some are mere infatuations, and some are about respect others if their doctrine is wrong and say nothing about it. Every religion in the world has people in it who dearly love their family members, their neighbors, and their countrymen. But that's not the love of the Bible that illustrates you love God. It may be simple familiarity, friendship, sentiment, passion or experiential love. True love (as defined by God) is that we desire for others the very same mercy and salvation that we ourselves have received of God. Freely we have received, we want others to receive just as freely. We desire they "KEEP" the commandments of God, and be true Christians who are faithful to God's word where they do not succumb to the flesh, which constantly wars against this. We desire they recieve the knowledge by testify with TRUTH according to Scripture despite their claim that they are offended or hated. We know that in mankind keeping God's commandments, thereby is the love Of God Perfected.

In fact, true love is telling you the truth. It's not either/or, I can tell you the truth and be nice to you also. Of course, you may not take hearing the truth very well, but that has nothing to do with "me" not loving you or not being nice to you. These are two different matters. If you are truly unsaved, you will be at enmity with the truth, that is a given. Becuase Paul wrote:

Galatian 4:16

"Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?"

The Lord judges. Selah!

Bible Highlighter · Aug 7, 2018

TribulationSigns said:
No, Moses and Elijah as an individual are NOT Two Witnesses of Revelation 11.

Of course... so much for the fact that there are many misguided souls today who still believe Elijah must physically come again before Christ returns to fulfill that prophecy. Why? Because they simply refuse to RECEIVE the truth that Christ spiritualized, what to them, is "so obviously literal."

Jesus refutes you... on TWO counts:

First:

Luke 1:13-17 KJV
[13] But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John.
[14] And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth.
[15] For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.
[16] And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God.
[17] And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

John the Baptist DID have the spirit and power of Elijah.

Second:

Matthew 11:12-15 KJV
[12] And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.
[13] For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.
[14] And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.
[15] He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Elijah had already come first fulfilling the prophesy, but they didn't know him and thus did to him whatever they listed (chose). It wasn't that Elijah didn't already come exactly as Malachi prophesied, it was that they simply didn't know it because they were looking for all to be fulfilled physically and it spoke in Spirit and truth. Just as they missed the Messiah Jesus Christ for the same reason, they were busy looking or demand an Earthly or physical kingdom, reign, rule, freedom from the Romans, restoration of the nation of Israel physically, etc., etc. Just like the Dispentastiontists today! But God never intended it to be literally or physically Elijah. Using Scripture to interpret Scripture, we "know" that John the Baptist was the fulfillment. I did not say that, but God:

Luke 1:17

"And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord."

John came as a metonymy in the same Spirit and Power of Elijah, not physically as Elijah, but after the model. And that is what the Malachi prophesy always meant no matter what Israel's Old Testament congregation leaders or Dispentastiontists supposed. It doesn't matter that some people don't get it, that's what the prophesy always looked forward to. Christ interpreted the meaning of this to His disciples (Look for yourself in Matthew 17:10-13; Luke 1:17) explaining it as referring to John the Baptist who came in the same "Spirit and Power" that characterized the prophet Elijah. As long as we interpret Scripture by Scripture and not by what "seems" right in our own eyes, or by book-sellers, church traditions or by mimicking ideas of famous theologians, we can not go wrong. Indeed, following your logic, Christ spiritualizes what is so obviously literal. But it's not so, Christ spiritualized what God always intended to be spiritual and not physical/literal, and it is He that sent the Spirit of truth that these things might be made known or revealed to us.

John 14:17

"Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you."

Whether one sees these things or not is not in my hands, but in the power of the Spirit of truth that reveals its validity. As it did with the more noble (honest) Bereans, who searched the scriptures daily to see if these things were true or not. As Jews, they didn't simply follow the teachings of the religious leaders of Israel, they followed the Word. Thus the believed Christ was indeed the Messiah prophesied in Scripture, and John the Baptist indeed came before Him in the Spirit and power of Elijah. What I can say is the carnal mind that looks at things in worldly, carnal or physical terms of swords, script and purse does not see these things as truth.

So the real question is, do you have ears to hear to receive that Elijah has ALREADY come through John to prepare people for Lord Jesus Christ? Or are you as blind as the Scribes and Pharisees who were looking for the same physical fulfillments?

These pieces of Scripture are talking about the spirit of Elijah being upon John the Baptist. However, that truth does not eliminate the truth of when we read about how Elijah and Moses are with Jesus and they are talking. So they are the two witnesses of Christ's 1st coming. It is logical to conclude that this event will repeat in some way (Seeing there are two witnesses at Christ's 2nd coming).

Also, Malachi 4:5 is actually in reference to the 2nd coming and not the 1st coming of Christ. So the Pharisees were confused on the timing of the "Day of the Lord." In other words, Malachi 4:5 still needs to be fulfilled. Also, the Messianic prophecies are literal prophecies and they are not talking always in solely spiritual terms only. So I am not sure why you are so dead set on this spiritual angle with the spirit of Elijah being upon John the Baptist having to be repeated with the two witnesses in Revelation (When no Scripture actually says that).

I am also fully aware that we have to look at things within God's Word as talking spiritually many times. We must be born again spiritually (i.e. We must repent and turn to Jesus Christ as our Savior whereby we can have a new heart with new desires). We must eat of Christ's flesh and blood spiritually (i.e. We must do the will of the Father - See John 4:34 and have faith that Christ's blood is our atoning sacrifice on our behalf - See Romans 3:25). The sword Jesus told His disciples to buy was not a physical sword but a spiritual one. For Jesus rebukes Peter for taking up his physical sword. The water being turned into wine is a picture of the Old Testament method of washing with water is now made possible through Christ's blood washing us instead. I could keep going on, but I am sure you get the idea that I am fully aware that the Bible does relate things that are physical with that which is spiritual many times. So please do not assume I am not aware of the spiritual things that God's Word teaches. I know for a fact there are things that God revealed to me in His Word that you have no clue about.

Douggg · Aug 7, 2018

shilohsfoal said:
So you believe the EU will take place of the united states in Israel?Do you believe theEU will do this by force or do you believe Israel and the united states will ask the EU to step in a take control of Jerusalem?

There is no way of knowing the United States' role at that time.

The time of the two witnesses will be following Gog/Magog.

Ezekiel 39 is the post Gog/Magog event. And that chapter is divded into two parts.

Ezekiel 39:1-16 That is all about the destruction of Gog's army and the clean up of the land.

Ezekiel 39:17-29 That is about when Jesus returns to this earth 7 years later, which in Ezekiel 39:17-20 is the Armageddon aftermath, which Jesus destroys those armies gathered to make war on him and his army. His army includes the raptured saints returning with him. Which the scoffers here say is not going to happen.

_________________________________________________________________________________

That's the framework for when the two witnesses begin their prophesying against the person who the Jews will embrace, thinking he is the messiah. Their 1260 days follow Gog/Magog.

The person is the "prince who shall come" of Daniel 9:26, who will be the little horn person of Daniel 7 and 8, king of the fourth empire (in the text), also in Revelation 17:10 as the 7th king coming, who will subsequently become the 8th king after his 3 years 3 months (thereabouts) stint as the Antichrist - illegitimate King of Israel, anointed so by the false prophet.

The fourth empire in the end times is the EU in its final form. They will be calling the shots.

The little horn person will be the prince who shall come - into the middle east following Gog/Magog with a strong army - Daniel 8:9, which he "stands up" in Daniel 8:25, an idiom for prepares to go to war - to defend Israel. Which his posturing in one of the former four Alexander break up terrorities, Greece, aforehand, is one reason, the Jews in the aftermath of Gog/Magog will think they are on the threshold of the messianic age, their enemies destroyed, and the little horn person the messiah.

If you go to Judaism 101.org, and read what the Jews are looking for in the messiah, you will find first of all that he will be king of Israel in the latter days, and that he will fight the battles of God in defending Israel, and that he will be a great politician. The little horn person will fit their expectations.

And the false prophet, their expectations of Elijah coming in preparation for the messianic age, which by tradition, Jews set a place for Elijah in their Passover meal every year.

King of the Roman Empire - little horn 7th king, leader of EU prior to Gog/Magog.
Short stint as the King of Israel, the Antichrist. Ends with 2Thessalonians2:4 act.
King of the Roman Empire - the beast 8th king.

Two Witnesses now preaching in Jerusalem

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