Is the 1000 year kingdom literal?

Erik Nelson said:

So you're saying that the nations of Revelation 11:18 are The nations deceived in revelation 20:7-9?

After which final judgment comes?

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Yes.

In the verse below we find the living "nations", and "wath", and "the time of the judgment of the dead", with "reward" for some, and "destruction" for others, all in the same verse.

Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

The verse comes right after the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible.
It is the same event found at the end of Revelation chapter 20.

The link below does a good job overall of describing this, although I may not agree with everything in the article.

http://www.herealittletherealittle.net/index.cfm?page_name=Gog

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BABerean2 said:

Yes.

In the verse below we find the living "nations", and "wath", and "the time of the judgment of the dead", with "reward" for some, and "destruction" for others, all in the same verse.

Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

The verse comes right after the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible.
It is the same event found at the end of Revelation chapter 20.

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Have you read the whole passage concerning the Great White Throne Judgment of Revelation 20 ...

It is said that it will happen 1,000 years AFTER the RESURRECTION of THE SAINTS MARTYRS of Revelation 20:4-6 .... Which is cited in Revelation 11:18 THE REWARD FOR THE DEAD PROPHETS AND DEAD SAINTS WHO WERE SLAIN FOR THE WORD OF GOD AND THEIR TESTIMONY OF JESUS.That is the Judgment of the Dead and The Reward mentioned in Revelation 11:18.
ALL THE OTHER DEAD [GOOD OR BAD] WHO ARE NOT PART OF THE FIRST RESURRECTION [Revelation 20:4-6]WILL BE JUDGED AT THE GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGMENT 1,000 years later [Revelation 20:7-15.]

Revelation 20:7-15
7 And when the thousand years are finished, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8 and shall come forth to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to the war: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up over the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down out of heaven, and devoured them.

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are also the beast and the false prophet; and they shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat upon it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne; and books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of the things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead that were in it; and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death, [even] the lake of fire.

15 And if any was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.

Riberra said:

It is said that it will happen 1,000 years AFTER the RESURRECTION of THE SAINTS MARTYRS of Revelation 20:4-6 .... Revelation 11:18 THE REWARD FOR THE DEAD PROPHET AND SAINTS WHO WERE SLAIN FOR THE WORD OF GOD AND THEIR TESTIMONY OF JESUS.That is the Judgment of the Dead mentioned in Revelation 11:18 ALL THE OTHER DEAD [GOOD OR BAD] WHO ARE NOT PART OF THE FIRST RESURRECTION [revelation 20:4-6]WILL BE JUDGED AT THE GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGMENT 1,000 years later [Revelation 20:7-15.]

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No. That is not what the text of Revelation 11:18 says.
You are attempting to ignore the part that does not agree with your doctrine.

Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

What you are saying also does not agree with the words of Christ in the passage below.

In John 5:27-30 Christ said that "all" the dead will be resurrected in the same "hour".
Based on the passage below, both the righteous and the wicked are judged at the same time.


Joh 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Joh 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

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BABerean2 said:

No. That is not what the text of Revelation 11:18 says.
You are attempting to ignore the part that does not agree with your doctrine.

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That is John who have written Revelation 20 not me.

BABerean2 said:

In John 5:27-30 Christ said that "all" the dead will be resurrected in the same "hour".
Based on the passage below, both the righteous and the wicked are judged at the same time.

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That HOUR when ALL THE PEOPLE ON THE EARTH WILL BE DEAD AND WILL BE JUDGED is what will happen AT THE GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGMENT Revelation 20:7-15

While that in Revelation 11:18 there are obviously people that will be ALIVE at that Moment.

Riberra said:

That is John who have written Revelation 20 not me.


That HOUR when ALL THE PEOPLE ON THE EARTH WILL BE DEAD AND WILL BE JUDGED is what will happen AT THE GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGMENT Revelation 20:7-15

While that in Revelation 11:18 there are obviously people that will be ALIVE at that Moment.

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2 Timothy 4:1

(CJB) I solemnly charge you before God and the Messiah Yeshua, who will judge the living and the dead when he appears and establishes his Kingdom:

(ESV) I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom:

(Geneva) I charge thee therefore before God, and before the Lorde Iesus Christ, which shall iudge the quicke and dead at that his appearing, and in his kingdome,

(Greek NT TR) διαμαρτυρομαι ουν εγω ενωπιον του θεου και του κυριου ιησου χριστου του μελλοντος κρινειν ζωντας και νεκρους κατα την επιφανειαν αυτου και την βασιλειαν αυτου

(GW) I solemnly call on you in the presence of God and Christ Jesus, who is going to judge those who are living and those who are dead. I do this because Christ Jesus will come to rule the world.

(LITV-TSP) Then I solemnly witness before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, He being about to judge living and dead at His appearance and His kingdom:

(KJV) I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

(KJV+) IG1473 chargeG1263 thee thereforeG3767 beforeG1799 God,G2316 andG2532 theG3588 LordG2962 JesusG2424 Christ,G5547 who shallG3195 judgeG2919 the quickG2198 andG2532 the deadG3498 atG2596 hisG848 appearingG2015 andG2532 hisG848 kingdom;G932

(NKJV) I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom:

(YLT) I do fully testify, then, before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who is about to judge living and dead at his manifestation and his reign—

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BABerean2 said:

2 Timothy 4:1

(CJB) I solemnly charge you before God and the Messiah Yeshua, who will judge the living and the dead when he appears and establishes his Kingdom:

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Yes, there will be people alive on the Earth when Jesus will Come in Judgment at His Second Coming To Establish His Kingdom ON THE EARTH [Revelation 20:4-6]

That is not the Great White Throne Judgment because at the GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGMENT ONLY THE DEAD WILL BE JUDGED ...

Read Revelation 20:11-15
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat upon it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw The DEAD, the great and the small, standing before the throne; and books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and The DEAD were judged out of the things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up The DEAD that were in it; and death and Hades gave up The DEAD that were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works

14 And death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death, [even] the lake of fire.

15 And if any was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.

BABerean2 said:

No. That is not what the text of Revelation 11:18 says.
You are attempting to ignore the part that does not agree with your doctrine.

Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
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The way it looks, it will be the 12 Apostles sitting on thrones judging the 12 tribes of Israel during the 1000yrs ?

Daniel 7:9
“I watched till thrones were put in place,
And the Ancient of Days was seated;

Matthew 19:
28 And Jesus said to them, ‘Verily I say to ye, that ye who did follow Me, in the regeneration<3824>, when the Son of Man may sit upon a throne of His glory,
shall sit ye also — upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel;
[Titus3:5 (not by works that [are] in righteousness that we did, but according to His kindness,) He did save us, through a bathing of regeneration<3824>, and a renewing of the Holy Spirit,]
3824. paliggenesia pal-ing-ghen-es-ee'-ah from 3825 and 1078; (spiritual) rebirth (the state or the act), i.e. (figuratively) spiritual renovation; specially, Messianic restoration:--regeneration.

Luke 22:
28 ‘And ye — ye are those who have remained with Me in My trials,
29 and I appoint to ye, as My Father did appoint to Me, a kingdom,
30 that ye may eat and may drink at My table, in My Kingdom,
and may sit on Thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.’

Revelation 20:4
And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them.
Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands.
And they lived and reigned with Christ for a[fn] thousand years.

Thinking that there will be a general Judgement of peoples when Jesus Returns, is contrary to the plain statement of Revelation 20:11-15.
Your scriptures, BaB2 in #305, all say that Jesus WILL judge and even if the translators have made it seem like that may happen at the Return: that idea contradicts other scriptures.
When Jesus Returns, He will destroy the attacking army of the Anti-Christ and chain up Satan. This does constitute a judgement, but certainly not the final one, to happen 1000 years later.

I trust that you, BaBerean2, will have the moral fortitude to admit your error in this matter.

keras said:

Thinking that there will be a general Judgement of peoples when Jesus Returns, is contrary to the plain statement of Revelation 20:11-15.
Your scriptures, BaB2 in #305, all say the Jesus WILL judge and even if the translators have made it seem like that may happen at the Return, that idea contradicts other scripture.
When Jesus Returns, He will destroy the attacking army of the Anti-Christ and chain up Satan. This does constitute a judgement, but certainly not the final one, to happen 1000 years later.
I trust that you, BaBerean2, will have the moral fortitude to admit your error in this matter.

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Don't forget about the Judgement of the great harlot/Prostitute in Reve 18 and 19.
That also has to happen before the 1000yr period upon His parousia/2nd coming.......

Matthew 23:30
“and say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets
Luke 11:50
“that the blood of all the prophets which was shed from the foundation of the world may be required of this generation,

Revelation 6:
9 And when he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those slain because of the word of God, and because of the testimony that they held,
10 and they were crying with a great voice, saying, ‘Till when, O Master, the Holy and the True
not Thou are judging and avenging the blood of us out those dwelling upon the land?’

Revelation 18:
8 because of this, in one day, shall come her plagues, death, and sorrow, and famine;
and in fire she shall be utterly burned,
because strong [is] the Lord God who is judging Her;

20 ‘Be glad over Her, O heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets,
because God judges the judgment ye out of Her!’

Revelation 19:
1 And after these things I heard a great voice of a great multitude in the heaven, saying, ‘Alleluia! the salvation and the glory and the honour and the power, [is] to the Lord our God;
2 because true and righteous [are] His judging, because He judges the great harlot who did corrupt the earth in Her whoredom,
and He did avenge the blood of His servants at Her hand;’
3 and a second time they said, ‘Alleluia!
and Her smoke is ascending — to the ages of the ages

11 And I saw the heaven having been opened and behold! a white horse,
and He who is sitting upon it is called Faithful and True,
and in righteousness He is judging and battling,

keras said:

I trust that you, BaBerean2, will have the moral fortitude to admit your error in this matter.

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The chance of that happening in this particular case is about as much of a chance as me winning the lottery---zero chance. One thing I have learned about Amils in general, they never admit that they are wrong about anything when it comes to Amil doctrine vs Premil doctrine. No way in a million years are any hardcore Amils ever going to admit that they are in error about some things where Premils are correct about instead.

LittleLambofJesus said:

The way it looks, it will be the 12 Apostles sitting on thrones judging the 12 tribes of Israel during the 1000yrs ?

Daniel 7:9
“I watched till thrones were put in place,
And the Ancient of Days was seated;

Matthew 19:
28 And Jesus said to them, ‘Verily I say to ye, that ye who did follow Me, in the regeneration<3824>, when the Son of Man may sit upon a throne of His glory,
shall sit ye also — upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel;
[Titus3:5 (not by works that [are] in righteousness that we did, but according to His kindness,) He did save us, through a bathing of regeneration<3824>, and a renewing of the Holy Spirit,]
3824. paliggenesia pal-ing-ghen-es-ee'-ah from 3825 and 1078; (spiritual) rebirth (the state or the act), i.e. (figuratively) spiritual renovation; specially, Messianic restoration:--regeneration.

Luke 22:
28 ‘And ye — ye are those who have remained with Me in My trials,
29 and I appoint to ye, as My Father did appoint to Me, a kingdom,
30 that ye may eat and may drink at My table, in My Kingdom,
and may sit on Thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.’

Revelation 20:4
And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them.
Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands.
And they lived and reigned with Christ for a[fn] thousand years.

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If I'm not mistaken, it seems you are Amil. Yet all of the above tends to prove Premil instead.

DavidPT said:

If I'm not mistaken, it seems you are Amil. Yet all of the above tends to prove Premil instead.

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I went from being pre-mill to amill because I thought they were of the view they are now in that 1000yr period.
But when I found out their view is one of a "spiritual" 1000 yr period, I changed to Pre-mill ................hard to explain.........

LittleLambofJesus said:

I went from being pre-mill to amill because I thought they were of the view they are now in that 1000yr period.
But when I found out their view is one of a "spiritual" 1000 yr period, I changed to Pre-mill ................hard to explain.........

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Another example of the general confusion that surrounds the whole unbiblical 'rapture to heaven' theory.
The fact that this issue has been discussed by all the so called experts, for 100 + years now, without any consensus, let alone any Biblical proof, shows they are doctrines from hell.
All those positions of belief vary between individuals and while some have a bit of truth, none have the whole story of God's plans for the world and for His people.

keras said:

Your scriptures, BaB2 in #305, all say that Jesus WILL judge and even if the translators have made it seem like that may happen at the Return: that idea contradicts other scriptures.

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No.

Some interpretations of Revelation chapter 20 contradict multiple other passages.

Like...
John 5:27-30
Matthew 25:31-46
2 Thessalonians 1:7-10
2 Timothy 4:1
2 Peter 3:10-13

Either that particular interpretation of Revelation chapter 20 is wrong, or all of those other passages are wrong.

Revelation 11:15-18 shows in plain language that "the time of the judgment of the dead" occurs right after the 7th trumpet.

Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Any unbiased witness would admit that "the time of the judgment of the dead" occurs right after the 7th trumpet.
Why?
Because that is what the text says.

Do you think the Book of Revelation is in chronological order?

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Riberra said:

Yes, there will be people alive on the Earth when Jesus will Come in Judgment at His Second Coming To Establish His Kingdom ON THE EARTH [Revelation 20:4-6]

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The word "earth" is not found until the end of the chapter.

Rev_20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Rev_20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
(See 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, and 2 Peter 3:10)

Rev_20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

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BABerean2 said:

The word "earth" is not found until the end of the chapter.

Rev_20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Rev_20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
(See 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, and 2 Peter 3:10)

Rev_20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

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Knowing that Revelation 20:7 tell us that Revelation 20:7-15 will happen 1,000 years AFTER the First Resurrection mentioned in Revelation 20:4-6 thus logically that is the same Earth...

BABerean2 said:

The word "earth" is not found until the end of the chapter.

Rev_20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Rev_20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
(See 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, and 2 Peter 3:10)

Rev_20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

.

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Let's think about this for a moment then, assuming you are the type that likes to think things through.

Revelation 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.


Look what the text indicates---And I saw an angel come down from heaven. Obviously then, when this angel comes down from heaven he is no longer in heaven but is headed somewhere else instead. Where would he be headed? Would it not be the earth? Would that not be where satan is, meaning after the following events are fulfilled first?


Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Revelation 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.


Obviously the chronology is as follows.

Revelation 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Revelation 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.


Followed by at some point in the future, the fulfillment of the following.

Revelation 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

You have been doing interpreting of Scriptures long enough by now to know, that just because something isn't mentioned in a context, such as the earth and context involving the thousand years, that that doesn't always indicate the context does not involve anything not mentioned in the context, in this case the earth. There is such a thing as logically deducing something based on other related Scriptures. I think it tends to fall under interpreting Scripture with Scripture.

It seems to me then, when satan is cast to the earth, he is not then bound at that time if Revelation 12 depicts him waging war instead. When he is bound then, it has to be after he is no longer waging war against the saints in this age. That can't happen until Christ returns in order to put a stop to it at the time. Yet we also see satan must be loosed for a little season.

DavidPT said:

Obviously the chronology is as follows.

Revelation 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

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Do you think Satan is still in heaven with the wicked angels that followed him, and they are in the presence of God, and Christ, and the souls of our dead Brothers and Sisters?

2Pe_2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;


Mar 5:9 And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many.
Mar 5:10 And he besought him much that he would not send them away out of the country.
Mar 5:11 Now there was there nigh unto the mountains a great herd of swine feeding.
Mar 5:12 And all the devils besought him, saying, Send us into the swine, that we may enter into them.
Mar 5:13 And forthwith Jesus gave them leave. And the unclean spirits went out, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the sea, (they were about two thousand and were choked in the sea.

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BABerean2 said:

Do you think Satan is still in heaven with the wicked angels that followed him, and they are in the presence of God, and Christ, and the souls of our dead Brothers and Sisters?

2Pe_2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;


Mar 5:9 And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many.
Mar 5:10 And he besought him much that he would not send them away out of the country.
Mar 5:11 Now there was there nigh unto the mountains a great herd of swine feeding.
Mar 5:12 And all the devils besought him, saying, Send us into the swine, that we may enter into them.
Mar 5:13 And forthwith Jesus gave them leave. And the unclean spirits went out, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the sea, (they were about two thousand and were choked in the sea.

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I don't see how any of that is relevant? There is obviously chronology involved per Revelation 12. Until there is war in heaven, satan isn't cast out into the earth until the war takes place first. When he is cast to the earth that logically explains why an angel is seen coming down from heaven in order to bind satan. Because that is where satan would be currently operating, on the earth.

On a different note, yet still related to these things-----

Isaiah 24:21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.
22 And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.
23 Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously.


Revelation 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.


Do you agree or disagree that Revelation 19:19-21 is the fulfilling of Isaiah 24:21? In the event you agree, wherever you place Revelation 19:19-21 in time, you must do the same with Isaiah 24:21. And if Isaiah 24:21 involves events connected with the 2nd coming according to Revelation 19:19-21, what about Isaiah 24:22 then? Wouldn't that logically indicate Isaiah 24:22 is meaning as of the 2nd coming? Does not the text say this?----And they shall be gathered together---and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.


Per Amil though, these all go straight to the LOF upon the return of Christ. Why is the text instead indicating they are shut up in the prison, then after many days shall they shall be visited? Explain that per Amil. But if you can't, or at least unwilling to, why should any Premil take your Amil interpretations seriously in the meantime if you're unable to satisfactorily demonstrate how Amil doctrine fits like a glove with that of a passage such as Isaiah 24:22?

BABerean2 said:

No.

Some interpretations of Revelation chapter 20 contradict multiple other passages.

Like...
John 5:27-30
Matthew 25:31-46
2 Thessalonians 1:7-10
2 Timothy 4:1
2 Peter 3:10-13

Either that particular interpretation of Revelation chapter 20 is wrong, or all of those other passages are wrong.

Revelation 11:15-18 shows in plain language that "the time of the judgment of the dead" occurs right after the 7th trumpet.

Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Any unbiased witness would admit that "the time of the judgment of the dead" occurs right after the 7th trumpet.
Why?
Because that is what the text says.

Do you think the Book of Revelation is in chronological order?

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So you're saying that the judgment of the "dead" in revelation 11:18 is the same judgment of the "dead" as in revelation 20:12?