Rapture Top Dogs Admit no Proof Exists

Seville90210 · Aug 6, 2018

Dave L said:
I provided direct quotes from both Walvoord and Lahay. Both remained pre-trib rapture advocates even though both admitted scripture does not directly support it.

No Dave, what you've provided are quotes you claimed are from Walvoord and LaHaye but failed to provide a link or any evidence of them having said that after having been asked to do so.

And the name is spelled LaHaye, not Lahay.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left_Behind

BABerean2 · Aug 6, 2018

Seville90210 said:
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

.

Seville90210 · Aug 6, 2018

Dave L said:
When Jesus returns the universe passes away with fire. This happens after the resurrection of the dead and the rapture.

Dave, can't you do anything right? If you're trying to discredit the Pre Trib rapture, you don't admit the tribulation and the second coming happens after the rapture.

BABerean2 · Aug 6, 2018

Seville90210 said:
No Dave, what you've provided are quotes you claimed are from Walvoord and LaHaye but failed to provide a link or any evidence of them having said that after having been asked to do so.

And the name is spelled LaHaye, not Lahay.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left_Behind

Author Tim LaHaye’s fictional books and movies known as the “Left Behind” series have convinced millions of modern Christians that the Pretrib doctrine is scriptural. Look at his quote below and consider carefully which viewpoint is the oldest.

"It may come as a surprise to most pre-Trib prophecy students that the

post-Trib position (in its primitive form) is the oldest point of view."

Tim LaHaye, "Rapture Under Attack", page 197,

Multnomath Publishers, Inc., 1998

.

Seville90210 · Aug 6, 2018

BABerean2 said:
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

.

I fail to see a post trib rapture in those verses you posted on the second coming also.

No post trib rapture here either.

Bible Highlighter · Aug 6, 2018

keras said:
Is that so? Wrath, testing, chastisement, discipline and correction, are all our lot as true children of God. Explain 1 Peter 4:12, Hebrews 12:5-13

You make no attempt to find our what God actually does want from His people. Why take them to heaven? He has angels to serve Him there.
No; our task is to do what Jesus has already asked of us, to spread the Gospel and live a good Christian life as His Light to the peoples.

The belief in a rapture will result in a terrible disappointment for those who expected it.
What is prophesied to happen soon, will be such a catastrophic disaster, that those surprised and unprepared for it, will make it that much more difficult for them.

1 Peter 4:12 is talking about general persecution of a believer. For all who live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution. Hebrews 12:4-13 is talking about the chastening of the Lord. Nowhere do these pieces of Scripture say that they are talking about how we must suffer through the Tribulation if we are alive in the proper time period to do so. Please show the specific words in these verses that say that this is talking about the Tribulation period.

Dave L · Aug 6, 2018

Seville90210 said:
Dave, can't you do anything right? If you're trying to discredit the Pre Trib rapture, you don't admit the tribulation and the second coming happens after the rapture.

The universe explodes after the rapture. It happens on the last day.

“For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.” (1 Thessalonians 4:16–17)

“And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.” (John 6:39)ESV

“Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?” (2 Peter 3:11–12)

Now that's tribulation...............

Dave L · Aug 6, 2018

Seville90210 said:
No Dave, what you've provided are quotes you claimed are from Walvoord and LaHaye but failed to provide a link or any evidence of them having said that after having been asked to do so.

And the name is spelled LaHaye, not Lahay.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left_Behind

The Walvoord book is in the DTS library if you want to check it out. The LaHaye quotes are in two of his books mentioned in my original post, still available.

BABerean2 · Aug 6, 2018

Seville90210 said:
I fail to see a post trib rapture in those verses you posted on the second coming also.

No post trib rapture here either.

It only takes one verse to kill your doctrine, but you have been trained not to see it...

Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

A person cannot be under the blood of the Lamb and not be a part of the New Covenant Church of Jesus Christ. (Hebrews 12:22-24)

.

Bible Highlighter · Aug 6, 2018

I never used to think that the Rapture was really that important of a topic before. But after this debate or discussion, I am now leaning towards the belief that a belief in a Pre-Trib Rapture is more than likely essential to having the right kind of faith in Jesus Christ. For if a believer is saved, would they not be Raptured? Can a believer deny the Rapture and yet still be Raptured in their unbelief of the Rapture? I also believe sin or a lack of holiness in one's life can also disqualify a believer from being taken up in the Pre-Trib Rapture, as well. When the Raptures happens (and it will), all believers here who have denied the Rapture are going to have a sick feeling of some kind within them. It will be like a punch to the gut. I mean, think about it. Knowing that you could have been with the Lord and escaped all these things (that Jesus talked about), but you simply did not believe Him. So now you have to face the Tribulation (When you really did not have to). That is what is on the line here. I think the Tribulation is going to be more horrible than you can possibly imagine. Why would you want to go through it, if there is a way of escape?

If the Rapture is not true, many of you think that folks like us are going to shrivel up in a corner and die and or lose our faith completely. But this is just silly. No true believer who is rooted in God's Word and who desires to follow Jesus for real will fall away from the faith just because they got a particular doctrine wrong. Maybe weak willed new believers might fall away. But a seasoned believer? Not a chance.

Douggg · Aug 6, 2018

Seville90210 said:
Hey Douggg, I got a question for you if you don't mind. How do you PM another person?

Go to the top of this page where your user name is on the turquoise line. Click on your use name.

In the list, on the left side, there is a category "conversations" in a turquoise box, click on the "start a new conversation" option.

Dave L · Aug 6, 2018

Jason0047 said:
I never used to think that the Rapture was really that important of a topic before. But after this debate or discussion, I am now leaning towards the belief that a belief in a Pre-Trib Rapture is more than likely essential to having the right kind of faith in Jesus Christ. For if a believer is saved, would they not be Raptured? Can a believer deny the Rapture and yet still be Raptured in their unbelief of the Rapture? I also believe sin or a lack of holiness in one's life can also disqualify a believer from being taken up in the Pre-Trib Rapture, as well. When the Raptures happens (and it will), all believers here who have denied the Rapture are going to have a sick feeling of some kind within them. It will be like a punch to the gut. I mean, think about it. Knowing that you could have been with the Lord and escaped all these things (that Jesus talked about), but you simply did not believe Him. So now you have to face the Tribulation (When you really did not have to). That is what is on the line here. I think the Tribulation is going to be more horrible than you can possibly imagine. Why would you want to go through it, if there is a way of escape?

If the Rapture is not true, many of you think that folks like us are going to shrivel up in a corner and die and or lose our faith completely. But this is just silly. No true believer who is rooted in God's Word and who desires to follow Jesus for real will fall away from the faith just because they got a particular doctrine wrong. Maybe weak willed new believers might fall away. But a seasoned believer? Not a chance.

You have a false hope that will undermine your faith when trouble comes and the rapture does not. Think of those whom Nero used as human torches to light his games at night. And the millions slaughtered throughout the middle ages, burnt at the stake for Christ. As well as the Christians slaughtered by ISIS today. Paul says the rapture happens on the last day after the resurrection.

Bible Highlighter · Aug 6, 2018

Dave L said:
You have a false hope that will undermine your faith when trouble comes and the rapture does not. Think of those whom Nero used as human torches to light his games at night. And the millions slaughtered throughout the middle ages, as well as the Christians slaughtered by ISIS today. Paul says the rapture happens on the last day after the resurrection.

Jesus is my hope and I believe in the blessed hope of His return at any moment. For he will come in an hour when you are not looking. So I disagree with you. Time will tell on who is right ultimately. But I trust in Jesus and I trust in His return for His church. I have that hope; And it is so beautiful. My God is good and He truly cares for me. What do you got?

Anyways, may the Lord open your eyes to see what I am talking about before the countdown on the Rapture clock concludes with our salvation.

Bible Highlighter · Aug 6, 2018

Dave L said:
You have a false hope that will undermine your faith when trouble comes and the rapture does not. Think of those whom Nero used as human torches to light his games at night. And the millions slaughtered throughout the middle ages, burnt at the stake for Christ. As well as the Christians slaughtered by ISIS today. Paul says the rapture happens on the last day after the resurrection.

I mean, what do you make of those verses that talk about how it says that our Master is going to come later and so we then start to beat our fellow servants? That is what I see take place within these kinds of threads over and over. I see the bashing of other believers by Anti-Pre-Trib Rapture folk. Not once did I see your side talk in love towards Pre-Trib Rapture believers. If hating on your fellow brethren is what the Kingdom is about, then I want no part of it. Granted, I understand that we as believers are allowed to tell the truth, but directly judging a person individually is not appropriate or nice in my opinion.

Dave L · Aug 6, 2018

Jason0047 said:
Jesus is my hope and I believe in the blessed hope of His return at any moment. For he will come in an hour when you are not looking. So I disagree with you. Time will tell on who is right ultimately. But I trust in Jesus and I trust in His return for His church. I have that hope; And it is so beautiful. My God is good and He truly cares for me. What do you got?

Anyways, may the Lord open your eyes to see what I am talking about before the countdown on the Rapture clock concludes with our salvation.

This happens on the last day, at the end of the world.

“For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.” (1 Thessalonians 4:16–17)

Not one scripture mentions a pre-trib rapture.

Dave L · Aug 6, 2018

Jason0047 said:
I mean, what do you make of those verses that talk about how it says that our Master is going to come later and so we then start to beat our fellow servants? That is what I see take place within these kinds of threads over and over. I see the bashing of other believers by Anti-Pre-Trib Rapture folk. Not once did I see your side talk in love. If that is what the Kingdom is about, then I want no part of it.

It all happens at the end of the world.

Bible Highlighter · Aug 6, 2018

Dave L said:
It all happens at the end of the world.

I am sorry. But the following passage simply does NOT work with your belief.

48 "But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of," (Matthew 24:48-50).

Basically you are saying verse 48 does not apply to us today. You want verse 48 to apply only to those believers during the Tribulation period.

You also are saying that the Lord will come in a specific time. However, verse 50 says that the Lord will come in a day when his servant is not looking for him and in an hour when he is not aware of it. This means you cannot know when the Lord will return.

Verse 49 is what many of you are doing to us Pre-Trib Rapture believers within this thread. You are smiting your fellow servants over thinking that the Lord delays His coming to a later time in what you think the Bible says.

Dave L · Aug 6, 2018

Jason0047 said:
I am sorry. But the following passage simply does NOT work with your belief.

48 "But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of," (Matthew 24:48-50).

Basically you are saying verse 48 does not apply to us today. You want verse 48 to apply only to those believers during the Tribulation period.

You also are saying that the Lord will come in a specific time. However, verse 50 says that the Lord will come in a day when his servant is not looking for him and in an hour when he is not aware of it. This means you cannot know when the Lord will return.

Verse 49 is what many of you are doing to us Pre-Trib Rapture believers within this thread. You are smiting your fellow servants over thinking that the Lord delays His coming to a time you think it says.

The end of the world can happen today...this hour. Nothing remains needing fulfillment.

BABerean2 · Aug 6, 2018

Jason0047 said:
I never used to think that the Rapture was really that important of a topic before. But after this debate or discussion, I am now leaning towards the belief that a belief in a Pre-Trib Rapture is more than likely essential to having the right kind of faith in Jesus Christ. For if a believer is saved, would they not be Raptured? Can a believer deny the Rapture and yet still be Raptured in their unbelief of the Rapture? I also believe sin or a lack of holiness in one's life can also disqualify a believer from being taken up in the Pre-Trib Rapture, as well. When the Raptures happens (and it will), all believers here who have denied the Rapture are going to have a sick feeling of some kind within them. It will be like a punch to the gut. I mean, think about it. Knowing that you could have been with the Lord and escaped all these things (that Jesus talked about), but you simply did not believe Him. So now you have to face the Tribulation (When you really did not have to). That is what is on the line here. I think the Tribulation is going to be more horrible than you can possibly imagine. Why would you want to go through it, if there is a way of escape?

If the Rapture is not true, many of you think that folks like us are going to shrivel up in a corner and die and or lose our faith completely. But this is just silly. No true believer who is rooted in God's Word and who desires to follow Jesus for real will fall away from the faith just because they got a particular doctrine wrong. Maybe weak willed new believers might fall away. But a seasoned believer? Not a chance.

You are turning the pretrib doctrine into a cult, by claiming that those Christians who do not agree with your version of Christ's Second Coming will be punished.

Why can you not see that the idea also works in reverse, if you are wrong?

.

.

Bible Highlighter · Aug 6, 2018

BABerean2 said:
You are turning the pretrib doctrine into a cult, by claiming that those Christians who do not agree with your version of Christ's Second Coming will be punished.

Why can you not see that the idea also works in reverse, if you are wrong?

.

.

No. It's what the Bible says. Again, how on Earth do you explain Matthew 24:48-50 that says that servant who says that the Lord delays His coming (kind of like what you are saying) and he begins to smite his fellow servants (kind of like what you are doing now)?

In any event, whether you agree with me or not, may God's love shine upon you today. I am wishing you nothing but good things to you in Christ Jesus.

Rapture Top Dogs Admit no Proof Exists

Psalm 118:26

Newbie

Psalm 118:26

Newbie

Psalm 118:26

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Newbie

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Well-Known Member

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Well-Known Member

Newbie

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Similar threads