Is the 1000 year kingdom literal?

2tim_215 · Aug 5, 2018

LittleLambofJesus said:
You said it better than I could.
from (a presumed derivative of) <G1085> (genos); a generation; by implication an age (the period or the persons) :- age, generation, nation, time.
Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary.refer to that speciic time, hence "this generationalso I just happened to notice the 2 different greek words in those 2 verses, #450 and 1453..............
Have you checked out my "generation" thread?

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/this-generation-in-bible.8075362/

Yeah, I just took a look at it. According to the strong's, generation means the following (more than one meaning0: genea G274
from (a presumed derivative of) <G1085> (genos); a generation; by implication an age (the period or the persons) :- age, generation, nation, time.
See it could mean an age (period or persons), nation, or even time. Thus I would interpret it here to mean the age of the Jew, or the period of time of the Old Testament Jew (keeping in mind when Jesus said this there were no "Christians"). It could also refer to the Jewish nation which would be judged for crucifying their savior. And it could also refer to that specific period in time. The Ninevites were an interesting group. They were so evil that Jonah didn't want to preach to them but eventually did (after he was swallowed by the big fish and almost died) and they were all saved as a result. It's another great example of God's grace and His desire to save everyone.

jgr · Aug 5, 2018

Copperhead said:
Hosea 5:14 - 6:2 (NKJV) For I will be like a lion to Ephraim,
And like a young lion to the house of Judah.
I, even I, will tear them and go away;
I will take them away, and no one shall rescue.
15 I will return again to My place
Till they acknowledge their offense.
Then they will seek My face;
In their affliction they will earnestly seek Me.”
1 Come, and let us return to the Lord; For He has torn, but He will heal us;
He has stricken, but He will bind us up.
2 After two days He will revive us;
On the third day He will raise us up,
That we may live in His sight.

If the Church is now Israel, and according to Hosea Israel must acknowledge their offense of rejecting Messiah at His first coming, and that they must acknowledge that offense and call out for His return before He will, then that would mean, based on the assumption that the Church has replaced Israel, that the Church must have rejected Messiah and now must acknowledge that offense before Yeshua can return.

So that would make the Church, if it is now Israel, guilty of rejecting Messiah. I notice how it is so convenient for folks to appropriate promises and blessing to Israel and make them the property of the Church, but they don't want to take the curses along with that. It is not a smorgasbord thing. Either the Church has replaced Israel and gets all the baggage with that, or Israel and the Church as still unique separate entities that are set apart for God's purpose. That is not a dual covenant theology nonsense that salvation is in either group. Salvation is only via the Messiah. And when one accepts Yeshua, Jew or Gentile, they become part of the Ekklesia (Church).

There have always been two Israels – unbelieving rebellious Israel, who have bowed to Baal; and believing obedient Israel, who have not. Dispensationalism refuses to recognize the distinction.

The NT Church has never replaced the former Israel, for it is the spawn of Satan upon which the curses fall. The Church has only replaced – more accurately, succeeded – the latter, for it marks the progression from the OT true chosen people to the NT true chosen people -- the Church. The Church is an exclusively spiritual community of which the Israel of God has always been a part.

Today, insofar as the Jewish religiocultural community itself acknowledges and applauds that it is genetically ubiquitous, it is meaningless to speak of Israel in ethnic terms. This is notwithstanding the dispensational insistence upon doing so, in denial of the Jewish community's own evidence.

This genetic ubiquity further confirms Scripture's declaration that the lens through which God views humanity is exclusively non-ethnic and spiritual (Galatians 3:28,29).

Dispensationalism's continued stubborn refusal to understand Scripture and science is the basis for its continued errant claims.

Copperhead · Aug 5, 2018

jgr said:
There have always been two Israels – unbelieving rebellious Israel, who have bowed to Baal; and believing obedient Israel, who have not. Dispensationalism refuses to recognize the distinction.

Well, not quite. Most dispensationalists view the distinction between Israel and the Church. Now one can argue that the Church is the true Israel from a faith / spiritual standpoint, but there is still a physical Israel and dispensationalists recognize that, corporately, they are in unbelief. And the scripture makes it very clear that they, as a corporate entity, will have to acknowledge their sin of rejecting the Messiah at His first coming and call for His return before He will return. Physical Israel is the key to Yeshua's return. But that doesn't have anything to do with saved or not saved. All who accept Yeshua are part of the Church. But Israel as an earthly entity, in unbelief, still has a role and calling for the Lord.

And one thing I am very confident in. Paul says there is a physical distinction and the prophecies say they have a destiny, so I am pretty sure God knows who is who and has things figured out. Irregardless of the arrogance of man.

jgr · Aug 5, 2018

Here's your physical Israel -- the entire human race -- whether or not you're willing to recognize it.

Abraham lineage
DNA Tests Could Fulfill God’s Promise to Abraham by Revealing Millions of Jews. But How Jewish is Jewish Enough?
Israel in all of Us? Research finds 'Jewish genes' in unusual places

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/132800
https://www.haaretz.com/jewish/tracing-lost-israelite-tribes-to-africa-1.5283901
https://www.cnn.com/2013/02/01/world/africa/nigeria-jews-igbo/index.html
http://www.worldjewishcongress.org/...-africa-has-jewish-roots-genetic-tests-reveal
https://www.jpost.com/Jewish-World/...her-claims-proof-of-tribe-of-Ephraim-in-India
https://www.jta.org/2013/05/23/life...bush-bani-israel-tribe-claims-jewish-heritage

Example of the mathematical confirmation of ancestral genetic ubiquity

Copperhead · Aug 5, 2018

jgr said:
Here's your physical Israel -- the entire human race -- whether or not you're willing to recognize it.

Abraham lineage
DNA Tests Could Fulfill God’s Promise to Abraham by Revealing Millions of Jews. But How Jewish is Jewish Enough?
Israel in all of Us? Research finds 'Jewish genes' in unusual places

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/132800
https://www.haaretz.com/jewish/tracing-lost-israelite-tribes-to-africa-1.5283901
https://www.cnn.com/2013/02/01/world/africa/nigeria-jews-igbo/index.html
http://www.worldjewishcongress.org/...-africa-has-jewish-roots-genetic-tests-reveal
https://www.jpost.com/Jewish-World/...her-claims-proof-of-tribe-of-Ephraim-in-India
https://www.jta.org/2013/05/23/life...bush-bani-israel-tribe-claims-jewish-heritage

Example of the mathematical confirmation of ancestral genetic ubiquity

I am not willing. Doesn't mean a thing to me. I rely on the Lord and His wisdom, not man's. I have nothing substantive to believe that any of those references are not biased in some way and the data is not skewed. But as for the Lord, I have every reason to trust that He has it worked out and knows who physical Israel is.

And the scripture is very clear in both OT and NT.... physical, corporate Israel has to acknowledge their offense of rejecting Yeshua at His first coming, and call for His return before He will. So how the Lord works that out is His business. And that means what CNN, the Jerusalem Post, or anyone else thinks about it really has about as much value as something I scraped off my boot today.

DavidPT · Aug 5, 2018

jgr said:
There have always been two Israels – unbelieving rebellious Israel, who have bowed to Baal; and believing obedient Israel, who have not. Dispensationalism refuses to recognize the distinction.

Hosea 5:14 - 6:2 (NKJV) For I will be like a lion to Ephraim,
And like a young lion to the house of Judah.
I, even I, will tear them and go away;
I will take them away, and no one shall rescue.
15 I will return again to My place
Till they acknowledge their offense.
Then they will seek My face;
In their affliction they will earnestly seek Me.”
1 Come, and let us return to the Lord; For He has torn, but He will heal us;
He has stricken, but He will bind us up.
2 After two days He will revive us;
On the third day He will raise us up,
That we may live in His sight.

So which Israel fulfills this then? The unbelieving rebellious Israel, who have bowed to Baal? Or the believing obedient Israel, who have not?

2tim_215 · Aug 5, 2018

Copperhead said:
Well, not quite. Most dispensationalists view the distinction between Israel and the Church. Now one can argue that the Church is the true Israel from a faith / spiritual standpoint, but there is still a physical Israel and dispensationalists recognize that, corporately, they are in unbelief. And the scripture makes it very clear that they, as a corporate entity, will have to acknowledge their sin of rejecting the Messiah at His first coming and call for His return before He will return. Physical Israel is the key to Yeshua's return. But that doesn't have anything to do with saved or not saved. All who accept Yeshua are part of the Church. But Israel as an earthly entity, in unbelief, still has a role and calling for the Lord.

And one thing I am very confident in. Paul says there is a physical distinction and the prophecies say they have a destiny, so I am pretty sure God knows who is who and has things figured out. Irregardless of the arrogance of man.

Today's Christians are "spiritual Israel". There are Jews who were saved before Jesus came to this earth and there were special promises (covenants) made to them that have yet to be fulfilled. The New Covenant (which we are told is a much better Covenant) were additional promises to those who followed Jesus and what we're living under today.

Copperhead · Aug 5, 2018

2tim_215 said:
Today's Christians are "spiritual Israel". There are Jews who were saved before Jesus came to this earth and there were special promises (covenants) made to them that have yet to be fulfilled. The New Covenant (which we are told is a much better Covenant) were additional promises to those who followed Jesus and what we're living under today.

But there were multiple covenants in the scripture.. at least 3 made that addressed physical Israel. And the New Covenant only replaced one of them.

Jeremiah 31:31-32 (NKJV) “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord

The New Covenant replaced the Mosaic / Sinai Covenant. It did not replace the Abrahamic Covenant or the Davidic Covenant. I would contend also that the New Covenant didn't replace the Adamic Covenant or the Noahic Covenant, but those didn't apply to Israel specifically. Both of those that did were reconfirmed by the Lord in many places, and the Davidic Covenant was reaffirmed by Gabriel during his visitation to Mary. Paul even recognizes that the Abrahamic Covenant and the Davidic Covenant are still in play.

BABerean2 · Aug 5, 2018

2tim_215 said:
One fold is the Jews and the other fold is the Christians and they wll all be one after that 1000 years when heaven and earth are joined.

When does the fire come?

2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

.

jgr · Aug 5, 2018

Copperhead said:
But there were multiple covenants in the scripture.. at least 3 made that addressed physical Israel. And the New Covenant only replaced one of them.

Jeremiah 31:31-32 (NKJV) “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord

The New Covenant replaced the Mosaic / Sinai Covenant. It did not replace the Abrahamic Covenant or the Davidic Covenant. I would contend also that the New Covenant didn't replace the Adamic Covenant or the Noahic Covenant, but those didn't apply to Israel specifically. Both of those that did were reconfirmed by the Lord in many places, and the Davidic Covenant was reaffirmed by Gabriel during his visitation to Mary. Paul even recognizes that the Abrahamic Covenant and the Davidic Covenant are still in play.

I invite you to cite any recognized scholar or theologian of the historical true Christian Church who did not believe that the New Will and Testament replaced the Old Will and Testament in its entirety. This is the essence of the meaning and effect of testamentary update.

The covenants of the Old Testament are testamentary clauses, which are part of the single Old Will and Testament. They are not separate wills and testaments, otherwise our Bibles would contain more than two wills and testaments.

This is a typical dispensational fallacy which "makes the Word of God of none effect".

The Old Will and Testament, and all of its contents in their entirety, are fulfilled and inherited by the Son of God. (2 Corinthians 1:20; Hebrews 1:1,2).

God has updated and improved His Old Will and Testament, whether or not you are willing to recognize it.

2tim_215 · Aug 5, 2018

Copperhead said:
But there were multiple covenants in the scripture.. at least 3 made that addressed physical Israel. And the New Covenant only replaced one of them.

Jeremiah 31:31-32 (NKJV) “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord

The New Covenant replaced the Mosaic / Sinai Covenant. It did not replace the Abrahamic Covenant or the Davidic Covenant. I would contend also that the New Covenant didn't replace the Adamic Covenant or the Noahic Covenant, but those didn't apply to Israel specifically. Both of those that did were reconfirmed by the Lord in many places, and the Davidic Covenant was reaffirmed by Gabriel during his visitation to Mary. Paul even recognizes that the Abrahamic Covenant and the Davidic Covenant are still in play.

I believe you're right.

jgr · Aug 5, 2018

Copperhead said:
I am not willing. Doesn't mean a thing to me. I rely on the Lord and His wisdom, not man's. I have nothing substantive to believe that any of those references are not biased in some way and the data is not skewed. But as for the Lord, I have every reason to trust that He has it worked out and knows who physical Israel is.

And the scripture is very clear in both OT and NT.... physical, corporate Israel has to acknowledge their offense of rejecting Yeshua at His first coming, and call for His return before He will. So how the Lord works that out is His business. And that means what CNN, the Jerusalem Post, or anyone else thinks about it really has about as much value as something I scraped off my boot today.

Of course it doesn't. That's a classic sign of cultism. When dogma conflicts with reality, discard reality.

From the very beginning of covenant history, genetics have had nothing to do with God's recognition and acceptance. (Genesis 17:12). His sole conditions have always been nothing more or less than faith and obedience. (Acts 10:34,35)

You need to scrape Darby, Scofield, and the proponents of dispensational modernism off your soles.

jgr · Aug 5, 2018

DavidPT said:
Hosea 5:14 - 6:2 (NKJV) For I will be like a lion to Ephraim,
And like a young lion to the house of Judah.
I, even I, will tear them and go away;
I will take them away, and no one shall rescue.
15 I will return again to My place
Till they acknowledge their offense.
Then they will seek My face;
In their affliction they will earnestly seek Me.”
1 Come, and let us return to the Lord; For He has torn, but He will heal us;
He has stricken, but He will bind us up.
2 After two days He will revive us;
On the third day He will raise us up,
That we may live in His sight.

So which Israel fulfills this then? The unbelieving rebellious Israel, who have bowed to Baal? Or the believing obedient Israel, who have not?

The same Israel as fulfills this:

Romans 9:27
Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

Romans 11
4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

The believing obedient remnant.

DavidPT · Aug 5, 2018

jgr said:
The same Israel as fulfills this:

Romans 9:27
Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

Romans 11
4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

The believing obedient remnant.

In another post you said the following----"There have always been two Israels – unbelieving rebellious Israel, who have bowed to Baal; and believing obedient Israel, who have not".

Now that we all know this, in the event some didn't initially know this, I take it you have read Ezekiel 39, correct? Which Israel fulfills that chapter then? Unbelieving rebellious Israel? Or believing obedient Israel?

I'm just trying to understand your thinking on these things, whether or not you're being logical. Are you thinking believing obedient Israel are the ones God will no longer hide His face from at some point, where He initially according to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have done unto them, and hid His face from them? Or does that sound like that might fit unbelieving rebellious Israel better instead?

You clearly said there is a believing obedient Israel. That should mean they remain obedient at all times, otherwise that makes them unbelieving rebellious Israel if they don't, keeping in mind what I have quoted you saying above, where you indicated there have always been two Israels, 'always have been' being keywords, where that obviously means there is not a time this wasn't true.

jgr · Aug 6, 2018

DavidPT said:
In another post you said the following----"There have always been two Israels – unbelieving rebellious Israel, who have bowed to Baal; and believing obedient Israel, who have not".

Now that we all know this, in the event some didn't initially know this, I take it you have read Ezekiel 39, correct? Which Israel fulfills that chapter then? Unbelieving rebellious Israel? Or believing obedient Israel?

I'm just trying to understand your thinking on these things, whether or not you're being logical. Are you thinking believing obedient Israel are the ones God will no longer hide His face from at some point, where He initially according to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have done unto them, and hid His face from them? Or does that sound like that might fit unbelieving rebellious Israel better instead?

You clearly said there is a believing obedient Israel. That should mean they remain obedient at all times, otherwise that makes them unbelieving rebellious Israel if they don't, keeping in mind what I have quoted you saying above, where you indicated there have always been two Israels, 'always have been' being keywords, where that obviously means there is not a time this wasn't true.

I don't mean to answer questions with questions. But I believe that the answers to these questions will also answer yours.

Are God's ageless criteria of faith and obedience discontinued in Ezekiel 39?

Is the faithful obedient remnant of whom Isaiah prophesied and Paul quoted, inapplicable in Ezekiel 39?

If the whole nation is to be saved, what was the reason for Paul's anguish at the beginning of Romans 9?

God no longer hides His face, and shows mercy to all, but do all respond to His mercy, and grace, and repent? Sadly no, neither within Israel, nor within humanity as a whole.

With ethnicity never a criterion from the beginning (Genesis 17:12), what makes God change His mind, making ethnicity His criterion, and discontinuing His justice which was based on faith and obedience?

With Israel today genetically ubiquitous in the entire human population, as the Jewish community itself tells us, and science confirms, how can ethnicity have any meaning as God's criterion?

Will the thousands of ancient ethnic Israelites that God slew because of unbelief and disobedience gain a future reprieve upon their resurrection because of their ethnicity?

Erik Nelson · Aug 6, 2018

keras said:
The curses are exclusively for those who disbelieve in God and reject Jesus.

The Church was mostly Jewish in its makeup for many years.
It was (and a denomination still is) the Nazarene sect of Judaism, the faithful remnant who followed Israel's Messiah. The "church" is not something separate from Israel, but rather is the remnant of the faithful within Israel and includes every faithful Christian individual alive.

Isaiah pointed out that in times of Israel's great apostasies, the faithful of the nation were reduced to a tiny remnant of elect ones. Isaiah 1:8-9

So it was in the first century, where Paul identifies himself as an example of the faithful remnant. Romans 11:1-5
The apostles continually say that Christians; born again believers, are the true elect ones: 2 Timothy 2:10; Col. 3:12; Galatians 6:15-16; 1 Peter 1:2; 1 Peter 2:9-10

However, some people have a bizarre idea of who is Israel: counting the disobedient sons of Abraham as Israel while discounting entirely the sons of Abraham by faith.
Paul said that when the Jewish nation rejected Christ, the true Israel was carried on not through the lineages of the wicked sons but rather through the obedient few (called the "remnant"), such as was true in Isaiah's day, Romans 9:27-29 and Elijah's day. Romans 11:3-5

Peter says the same thing at Acts 3:22-24, where it is clear that the wicked Jews who refuse Christ were to be "cut off from among the People of Israel" while the faithful Jews (John the Baptist, Joseph and Mary, the Twelve, the Seventy, the three thousand on Pentecost day, and many other Jews) were the True Faithful Israel.

The Israelite church was with Moses in the wilderness, Acts 7:37-38 And within a few years after Pentecost, the faithful Israelites learned how to start accepting both Jewish and also gentile followers from all over the empire to convert into their Nation. 1 Peter 2:9-10; Matthew 21:40-45 And so the remnant of true righteous Christian Israel have maintained the faith through this age, while a large portion of the established Church have lost the plot, to their eternal discredit.
And so it was also in Moses' day, when the many thousands of wicked sons of Abraham were slain in the wilderness while the tested and tried sons of Abraham survived and got to enter the Promised Land. We must NEVER count the continuation of Israel through the wicked sons but rather always through the faithful remnant!

The real Church is the faithful Christians from every tribe, race, nation and language, Revelation 5:9-10; they are the Israelites of God. Israelites = the Overcomers with God.

Agreed from a purely Christian perspective. No replacement per se as if something was swept aside and completely replaced with something entirely new But rather a continuation. With Gentile branches grafted in to the few natural branches of the original tree whose trunk was Moses and whose roots, Abraham and the patriarchs.

From Abraham to John the Baptist to Alfred Edersheim There have always been a few Abrahamic Jews, who have been faithful. To Jesus acknowledging him as the Messiah. They are in some sense the most natural direct continuation of Abrahamic tradition. Into, which Gentile believers have been graciously grafted in as a most fortunate Addition. Nothing's been replaced. It's all about the inside it's all about spiritual belief In fact, quite the contrary, and reverse some appear to me to be seeking to replace internal spiritual belief. With external physical fleshly. Criteria!

https://riversofjoybaptist.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/romans-11-two-olive-trees.gif

Erik Nelson · Aug 6, 2018

DavidPT said:
Hosea 5:14 - 6:2 (NKJV) For I will be like a lion to Ephraim,
And like a young lion to the house of Judah.
I, even I, will tear them and go away;
I will take them away, and no one shall rescue.
15 I will return again to My place
Till they acknowledge their offense.
Then they will seek My face;
In their affliction they will earnestly seek Me.”
1 Come, and let us return to the Lord; For He has torn, but He will heal us;
He has stricken, but He will bind us up.
2 After two days He will revive us;
On the third day He will raise us up,
That we may live in His sight.

So which Israel fulfills this then? The unbelieving rebellious Israel, who have bowed to Baal? Or the believing obedient Israel, who have not?

Hypothetically could it be. That just as Old Covenant is real. Apostatized. So perhaps New Covenant Spiritual Israel. Will apostatize? During Revelation 20 versus 7 through 9. With the actual second coming on the Great White throne occurring after Repentance?

Copperhead · Aug 6, 2018

jgr said:
I invite you to cite any recognized scholar or theologian of the historical true Christian Church who did not believe that the New Will and Testament replaced the Old Will and Testament in its entirety. This is the essence of the meaning and effect of testamentary update.

The covenants of the Old Testament are testamentary clauses, which are part of the single Old Will and Testament. They are not separate wills and testaments, otherwise our Bibles would contain more than two wills and testaments.

This is a typical dispensational fallacy which "makes the Word of God of none effect".

The Old Will and Testament, and all of its contents in their entirety, are fulfilled and inherited by the Son of God. (2 Corinthians 1:20; Hebrews 1:1,2).

God has updated and improved His Old Will and Testament, whether or not you are willing to recognize it.

I don't need to. But Dr. Thomas Ice is one. Dr. Andy Woods is another. C.H Spurgeon is another.

But even then, I trust what good 'ol Jere wrote in Jeremiah 31 more than any scholar. And it is quite clear there that what is in view is the Mosaic/Sinai Covenant.

Like I also stated, the Adamic covenant is not annulled or superseded by the New Covenant. Else no one would be having children today nor would mankind be in control of anything around him. Likewise, the Noahic Covenant is still in effect. Else, you had better start working on your swimming skills and get some really good flood insurance, even if you live at the summit of Mt. Everest. And the nullification of the Noahic Covenant would mean God is a liar and can't be trusted.

To blanket say that the entirety of Genesis to Malachi is annulled or superseded by the New Covenant is pure rubbish.

And Yeshua Himself affirmed this idea.

Luke 16:16 (NKJV) “The law and the prophets were until John. Since that time the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is pressing into it.

The Abrahamic Covenant and the Davidic Covenant is still in play. Only the Mosaic Covenant is superseded.

Copperhead · Aug 6, 2018

Erik Nelson said:
Hypothetically could it be. That just as Old Covenant is real. Apostatized. So perhaps New Covenant Spiritual Israel. Will apostatize? During Revelation 20 versus 7 through 9. With the actual second coming on the Great White throne occurring after Repentance?

Except the rejection mention by Hosea 5:15 (and affirmed by Yeshua in Matthew 23:39) was before Yeshua returned to His place. There is no other group that can be inferred than physical, literal Israel. The Church did not exist prior to Yeshua's ascension. So it is probably far beyond "hypothetical".

And the same corporate group that rejected Yeshua will have to acknowledge that offense and petition for His return.... before He will return. So that corporate group (physical, literal, earthly Israel) must be in play clear up till the time Yeshua returns. It was the leadership that rejected Yeshua (see Matthew 23), so it has to be the leadership of Israel that petitions His return.

More convincing evidence that the Israel sitting along the Jordan river today is in place to do just that in the future.

Erik Nelson · Aug 6, 2018

Copperhead said:
Except the rejection mention by Hosea 5:15 (and affirmed by Yeshua in Matthew 23:39) was before Yeshua returned to His place. There is no other group that can be inferred than physical, literal Israel. The Church did not exist prior to Yeshua's ascension. So it is probably far beyond "hypothetical".

So if and when physical national Israel acknowledges Jesus as the prophesied Messiah. Then. The Second Coming event will occur.?

Is the 1000 year kingdom literal?

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