Does God forget people who end up in Hell?

ChristaLife said:

Hi Bro I think you are talking about Christians. They are the ones that will put on incorruptible bodies because corruptible bodies (Flesh and Blood ) can not inherit incorruption.

The passage also say not all will be dead at the time so of all the humans that will be alive the saints among them will be changed.

The beginning says BRETHREN THEN HE SAID WE SHALL ALL BE CHANGED: NOT EVERY ONE AS IN ALL HUMANS BUT ONLY THE SAINTS.

1 Corinthians 15:50-53 King James Version (KJV)
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.


It then concluded with an encouragement for the saints. CHRIST CALLED US MY BELOVED.

1 Corinthians 15:58 King James Version (KJV)
58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

HELL IS CORRUPTION SO THOSE GOING TO HELL WILL NOT BE CHANGED . There is no inheritance in HELL but punishment.
1 Corinthians 15:50-53 King James Version (KJV)
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

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It says we shall all be changed not just the saints. It makes no exception in this statement. Corruptible flesh is destroyed by fire at Christ's coming. The first death is physical and the second death is spiritual.

2. Hell is where everyone sleeps.

StephenDiscipleofYHWH said:

1. It says he has the ability to destroy both body and soul in hell, it doesn't say that he will. I have the ability to jump off a 30 story building it doesn't mean I will, only that I can.

2. The dead sleep in Hell(the grave) not in heaven. I don't know where you got that idea. No man is raised until either the first or the second resurrection. Other than that all the dead since the time of the beginning still sleep.

The next point I would like to address is when the wicked will arise all the wicked that were already dead are resurrected AFTER the heavens and earth are destroyed by fire. This is the second resurrection for everyone who was alive at the time of the Lord's coming, and for the dead that had no part in the first resurrection.


The soul(of the people that have died) must instead rest in the grave(Hell-Sheol) until either the first or the second resurrection. The righteous becoming part of the New heaven and New earth that is created.(Revelation 21:1-3)

There are two resurrections, the first for those who were killed for Christ.

Revelation 20:4-6

And the second for the rest of the dead and those that were alive at the destruction of the heavens and the earth by fire at Christ's coming.

1 Thess 4:13-17
Acts 7:59-60
1 Corinthians 15:6
1 Corinthians 15:18-23
Revelation 20:11-15



3. 1 Peter 3:18-19 is speaking of when Christ died on the cross and was dead those 39 hours. It was not heaven that he went to first but Hell as a quickening spirit, to minister to those spirits who were in prison and give them a chance to accept or deny him(since they did not have that chance in life).
1 Peter 3:18-19
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
Christ was not put to death on the cross before the flood, I honestly cannot say where you got that from.
Ephesians 4:9-10
9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

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Well it certainly doesn't say He isn't going to!!

I already gave the verses for what happens at His return in post #135.
New International Version
to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,

New Living Translation
those who disobeyed God long ago when God waited patiently while Noah was building his boat. Only eight people were saved from drowning in that terrible flood.

English Standard Version
because they formerly did not obey, when God’s patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water.

Berean Study Bible
who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah, while the ark was being built. In the ark a few people, only eight souls, were saved through water.

Berean Literal Bible
at one time having disobeyed, when the longsuffering of God was waiting in the days of Noah, of the ark being prepared, in which a few--that is, eight souls--were saved through water,

New American Standard Bible
who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water.

King James Bible
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

Christian Standard Bible
who in the past were disobedient, when God patiently waited in the days of Noah while the ark was being prepared. In it a few--that is, eight people--were saved through water.

mmksparbud said:

Well it certainly doesn't say He isn't going to!!

I already gave the verses for what happens at His return in post #135.
New International Version
to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,

New Living Translation
those who disobeyed God long ago when God waited patiently while Noah was building his boat. Only eight people were saved from drowning in that terrible flood.

English Standard Version
because they formerly did not obey, when God’s patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water.

Berean Study Bible
who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah, while the ark was being built. In the ark a few people, only eight souls, were saved through water.

Berean Literal Bible
at one time having disobeyed, when the longsuffering of God was waiting in the days of Noah, of the ark being prepared, in which a few--that is, eight souls--were saved through water,

New American Standard Bible
who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water.

King James Bible
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

Christian Standard Bible
who in the past were disobedient, when God patiently waited in the days of Noah while the ark was being prepared. In it a few--that is, eight people--were saved through water.

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1. That's right Matt 10:28 does not mention what will happen either way. It is a figurative example of an act that the Lord almighty is capable of that man is not.

2. And I gave the verses of what will happen at his return in my last posts to you.(concerning the resurrection and destruction of this world).

3. Nothing in the verses you give says that Christ did not go down to the spirits in prison at the time of his death. Since that is what the bible says he did.

StephenDiscipleofYHWH said:

It says we shall all be changed not just the saints. It makes no exception in this statement. Corruptible flesh is destroyed by fire at Christ's coming. The first death is physical and the second death is spiritual.

2. Hell is where everyone sleeps.

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1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
1Co 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
1Co 15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
1Co 15:57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
1Co 15:58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

This whole passage is about the saved.
The wicked are not given incorruptible bodies. The saved get them so they can enter heaven. The wicked are dead and stay that way until after the 1000 years, just like it says.

Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.


Nobody sleeps in hell!!!

StephenDiscipleofYHWH said:

1. That's right Matt 10:28 does not mention what will happen either way. It is a figurative example of an act that the Lord almighty is capable of that man is not.

2. And I gave the verses of what will happen at his return in my last posts to you.(concerning the resurrection and destruction of this world).

3. Nothing in the verses you give says that Christ did not go down to the spirits in prison at the time of his death. Since that is what the bible says he did.

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Jesus is not in any way speaking figuratively--but if you want it so---then that is what you will believe.
The passage is about the time of Noah---
we'll all find out soon enough!

mmksparbud said:

1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
1Co 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
1Co 15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
1Co 15:57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
1Co 15:58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

This whole passage is about the saved.
The wicked are not given incorruptible bodies. The saved get them so they can enter heaven. The wicked are dead and stay that way until after the 1000 years, just like it says.

Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.


Nobody sleeps in hell!!!

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1. He is speaking of the saved right up until verse 51 then he is speaking a mystery unto them that they would not hardly be able to understand. This is not part of the former conversation of verse 50 that only included the righteous.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

It gives no exception only that the dead and the living alike will be raised incorruptible(in the spirit) not in corruption(the flesh).


2. The first Resurrection is only for the righteous dead that died for Christ's name up until that point(not the righteous living).

There are two resurrections, the first for those who were killed for Christ. Those wicked dead remain sleeping for the thousand years(years are as days), seven years(round about).
Revelation 20:4-6

And the second for the rest of the dead and those that were alive(righteous and wicked alike) at the destruction of the heavens and the earth by fire at Christ's coming.

1 Thess 4:13-17

Acts 7:59-60

1 Corinthians 15:6
1 Corinthians 15:18-23
Revelation 20:11-15


3.
Daniel 12:2-4
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.
4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

Acts 2:26-29
26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:
27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.
29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
(1 Cor 15:20; 1 Thess 4:13-18; 1 kings 2:10; 1 kings 11:43; 1 Kings 14:20; 2 Kings 14:16; Acts 7:60) there are about a dozen more verses that say we sleep in the grave/hell.

Emli said:

46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

Matthew 25:41-46

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Youngs Literal Translation of the Holy Bible, 1898:
"And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during."
Concordant Literal New Testament, 1983
And these shall be coming away into chastening eonian, yet the just into life eonian."
Rotherham Emphasized Bible, 1959
"And these shall go away into age-abiding correction, But the righteous into age-abiding life."


For some other parallels in Scripture consider:

Rom 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for ALL MANKIND for condemnation, thus also it is through one just act for ALL MANKIND for life's justifying."

Rom 5:19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, THE MANY were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, THE MANY shall be constituted just."

1 Cor.15:22 AS in Adam ALL die SO ALSO in Christ shall ALL be made alive.

1 Cor.15:28 And when ALL shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put ALL under him, that God may be all IN ALL.

Lamentations 3:22 and 3:31-33, The steadfast love of the Lord NEVER ceases, his mercies NEVER come to an end. . . .Lam.3:31 For the Lord will NOT cast off FOR EVER: 32 For if He causes grief, Then He will have compassion According to His abundant lovingkindness. 33 For He does not afflict willingly Or grieve the SONS OF MEN.…

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/augustines-ignorance-error-re-matthew-25-46.8041938/

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/have-you-been-decieved-by-your-bible-translation.8039822/

https://www.christianforums.com/thr...in-duration-with-aionion-in-mt-25-46.8069208/

mmksparbud said:

Jesus is not in any way speaking figuratively--but if you want it so---then that is what you will believe.
The passage is about the time of Noah---
we'll all find out soon enough!

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1. He is using hell(Geenna) which is only a figurative use if it is speaking of the lake of fire(as you believe) otherwise it is speaking of the grave(as I believe). In either case it is not giving an indication that the Lord will destroy only that he can.

2. Yes the passage you quoted was. The passage from Peter that I posted was speaking of Christ's descent into the grave/hell at his death on the cross.

3. Yes we will sister. May the Lord God guide you to the truth and light of his word.

ClementofA said:

Young's Literal Translation
and the smoke of their torment doth go up to ages of ages; and they have no rest day and night, who are bowing before the beast and his image, also if any doth receive the mark of his name.

Scripture also speaks of night being "no more". So can "day and night" be forever?

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Thank you for the other translation.

Here though we are talking about Hell. It is in heaven that there will be no more night because they will be in the presence of the the Lord for ever and ever and his glory will give permanent light.
It is not the same in hell. in fact they will be in fire and permanent darkness. If i can remember the bible says REAL DARKNESS There will be no perception of who is next to you.

Jude 13 King James Version (KJV)
13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

I prayerfully reflected on the issue of day and night as mentioned in the passage. What came to my mind was the SENSE OF TIME IN HELL. People in hell will not lose their sense of time as they have now. and that will really make the pain unbearable imagine counting 1000 years ans 1000 of 1000 years and still no end in sight. THIS IS THE WHOLE ESSENCE OF THE BIBLE WARNING US TO SEEK FIRST THE KINGDOM OF GOD.

Day and night probably refers to the sense of work and rest. As we have it today there are places here on earth that have continuous darkness or continuous light for months yet they still have the sense of work and rest. They work and rest as in 24 hour circle.

In hell they will have the perception but they cannot rest.
HELL IS INDEED A VERY TERRIBLE PLACE WE SHOULD NOT EVEN WISH IT ON OUR WORST ENEMY. WE SHOULD PRAY ALWAYS THAT GOD SHOULD DELIVER US FROM HELL.

StephenDiscipleofYHWH said:

It gives no exception only that the dead and the living alike will be raised incorruptible(in the spirit) not in corruption(the flesh).

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1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

The dead and the living will be changed immediately--in the twinkling of an eye---the dead and the living saved!! The dead and living wicked are all dead with His coming. And remain so.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Those are not resurrected until after the 1000 years and their sentences are pronounced and they are thrown in hell.

Original Happy Camper said:

It is through the details that we learn GODS chartacter

Detail:
John 14:15 [Full Chapter]
If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Do you love GOD?

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The Lord's commandments are about what we should get up every morning and be found doing whenever He returns.

Sparring over details about hell is not by His command.

ChristaLife said:

Thank you for the other translation.

Here though we are talking about Hell. It is in heaven that there will be no more night because they will be in the presence of the the Lord for ever and ever and his glory will give permanent light.
It is not the same in hell. in fact they will be in fire and permanent darkness. If i can remember the bible says REAL DARKNESS There will be no perception of who is next to you.

Jude 13 King James Version (KJV)
13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

I prayerfully reflected on the issue of day and night as mentioned in the passage. What came to my mind was the SENSE OF TIME IN HELL. People in hell will not lose their sense of time as they have now. and that will really make the pain unbearable imagine counting 1000 years ans 1000 of 1000 years and still no end in sight. THIS IS THE WHOLE ESSENCE OF THE BIBLE WARNING US TO SEEK FIRST THE KINGDOM OF GOD.

Day and night probably refers to the sense of work and rest. As we have it today there are places here on earth that have continuous darkness or continuous light for months yet they still have the sense of work and rest. They work and rest as in 24 hour circle.

In hell they will have the perception but they cannot rest.
HELL IS INDEED A VERY TERRIBLE PLACE WE SHOULD NOT EVEN WISH IT ON OUR WORST ENEMY. WE SHOULD PRAY ALWAYS THAT GOD SHOULD DELIVER US FROM HELL.

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Some more literal versions of Jude 1:13 say:

Young's Literal Translation
wild waves of a sea, foaming out their own shames; stars going astray, to whom the gloom of the darkness to the age hath been kept.

Weymouth New Testament
wild waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, for whom is reserved dense darkness of age-long duration.

Berean Literal Bible
wild waves of the sea, foaming out of their own shame; wandering stars, to whom the gloom of darkness has been reserved to the age.

Rom 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for ALL MANKIND for condemnation, thus also it is through one just act for ALL MANKIND for life's justifying."

Rom 5:19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, THE MANY were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, THE MANY shall be constituted just."

Paul makes a parallel between "the many" who were condemned & sinners and those who will be justified & constituted just.

“In Romans 5, the justification is co-extensive with the condemnation. Since all share in one, all share in the other. If only a certain portion of the human race had partaken of the sin of Adam, only a certain portion would partake of the justification of Christ. But St. Paul affirms all to have been involved in one, and all to be included in the other.”

Therefore there is salvation after death. And corrective punishment.

https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf

Jesus shall see of the travail of His soul & be satisfied. Not satisfied a little bit, but the vast majority fried alive forever.

"He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities." (Isa.53:11).

For how "many" (not few) did He "bear their iniquities"? All.

http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/unique_proof_for_universalism.html

https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf

mmksparbud said:

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

The dead and the living will be changed immediately--in the twinkling of an eye---the dead and the living saved!! The dead and living wicked are all dead with His coming. And remain so.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Those are not resurrected until after the 1000 years and their sentences are pronounced and they are thrown in hell.

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4:16 is the first Resurrection of the righteous dead.
4:17 is the second Resurrection that takes place about 3 years later where all the ungodly(dead and alive) and all the righteous will be called on the day of judgment. The righteous will be forever with the Lord after judgment and the unrighteous will not.

2. This is the timeline. Satan is cast into the bottomless pit for about 3 years.
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Those who died for Christ are raised in the first Resurrection. They reign with Christ for about 3 years.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

The Dead wicked(and those righteous that die after the first Resurrection) will not be raised until the second Resurrection at the Lord's coming.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Those of the First Resurrection reign for about 3 Years.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The Seven years are up Satan is loosed.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

He collects the nations against the camp of the saints(Valley of the Mountain that cleft in the midst) on earth.
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

Once they have encompassed the Valley of the Mountain, Christ returns and destroys all flesh and the earth with fire.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

The devil and the False prophet are cast into the lake of Fire.
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

The first and second part of heaven are destroyed, this is at the same time as the two previous passages.
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

The righteous dead(that died or were not part of the first resurrection) and the wicked dead stand before YHWH and are judged and sentenced for their deeds.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

This is how it all happens sister.

mmksparbud said:

This whole passage is about the saved.
The wicked are not given incorruptible bodies. The saved get them so they can enter heaven. The wicked are dead and stay that way until after the 1000 years, just like it says.

Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

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Amen and Amen

StephenDiscipleofYHWH said:

4:16 is the first Resurrection of the righteous dead.
4:17 is the second Resurrection that takes place 7 years later where all the ungodly(dead and alive) and all the righteous will be called on the day of judgment. The righteous will be forever with the Lord after judgment and the unrighteous will not.

2. This is the timeline. Satan is cast into the bottomless pit for 7 years.
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Those who died for Christ are raised in the first Resurrection. They reign with Christ for 7 Years.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

The Dead wicked(and those righteous that die after the first Resurrection) will not be raised until the second Resurrection at the Lord's coming.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Those of the First Resurrection reign for 7 Years.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The Seven years are up Satan is loosed.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

He collects the nations against the camp of the saints(Valley of the Mountain that cleft in the midst) on earth.
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

Once they have encompassed the Valley of the Mountain, Christ returns and destroys all flesh and the earth with fire.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

The devil and the False prophet are cast into the lake of Fire.
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

The first and second part of heaven are destroyed, this is at the same time as the two previous passages.
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

The righteous dead(that died or were not part of the first resurrection) and the wicked dead stand before YHWH and are judged and sentenced for their deeds.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

This is how it all happens sister.

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Nope--but you are certainly entitled to your version. There is nothing about 7 years---it is plainly stated 1000 years though. And that is how long Satan will be in the pit, contemplating his navel.

ev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

ChristaLife said:

The bodies are not destroyed permanently. All souls or all human will resurrect in this physical bodies for judgement.
Eternal death or second death,only means eternal SEPARATION FROM GOD. NO MORE MERCY NO MORE FORGIVENESS JUST ETERNAL PUNISHMENT.

John 5:28-29 King James Version (KJV)
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.


Revelation 20:11-14 King James Version (KJV)
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. THIS IS THE SECOND DEATH.

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Yes I’m know. I was disagreeing with a poster who insists “hell” just means the grave. I was trying to point out that Jesus’ statements make no sense if hell=grave.

StephenDiscipleofYHWH said:

1. No, it was just an example that the Lord has power to destroy body and soul anywhere, where humans only have power to destroy the body. In the grave while we live in heaven anywhere.

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Then it makes no sense to add "throw in the grave" and what is more, who in the Bible, including Jesus, talked about God able to destroy you at any time? Might have been but who. This is not the picture of God that Jesus or the prophets presented.

2. Yes Luke does say that. I did not know we were speaking of Luke 12:5. Since this is a different story here is my answer for this verse.
4 And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.
5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

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It Luke makes no difference as it the same teaching being described. That you think it is a different story because one used "destroy" tells me that your theory will remain in tact despite what the scriptures say.

This is the most common Christian I meet. "Don't confuse me with the scriptures, I have already made up my mind." But I see in the teaching of Jesus that Hell is not merely the grave. Jesus was not teaching us to be deathly afraid of God who can destroy us at any moment for no given reason. The interpretation you paint on the verses describe that kind of being.

We are not to fear the man who can destroy the body and has no more power. But we are to fear him who after killing you has power to cast you into Hell(The figurative place for the dead after the resurrection/judgment)

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Hell is a real place not a figurative place since the "fear" needs to be real and nnot figurative. Otherwise it is like saying to be afraid of Captain Hook. Hell is not the grave since no one is afraid of the grave, not before he taught and not afterwards.

1067. geenna(used (figuratively) as a name for the place (or state) of everlasting punishment) this is the third meaning of the word Geenna. Geenna is a figurative place of punishment(in one of it's meanings)(whenever the word is used in this sense it is not to be taken as a literal representation of what happens after death/at the time of death) and since we know that hell(the grave) is cast into the lake of fire(Revelation 20:14). Then there are only two options
A. The Lord casts you into the grave(Hell) and the then casts the grave(hell) into the lake of fire. (Accurate representation)
B. Hell is the lake of Fire and he casts the lake of fire into itself.( Which makes no sense at all)

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I think you are submitting the scriptures to your own limited information or understanding. You have to figure it all out and therefore negate the warning that Jesus gave making Hell merely the grave. Reduces the fear to nothing at all since no one is afraid of the grave and you do not even see mature believers running around afraid that God can destroy body and soul tomorrow. So I reject your theory on the matter.

My own position is that the grave is where men bury their dead so that disease and stick do not ruin the lives of the living. Not scary at all and nothing to fear. People come to graves all the time and no one is afraid of them. Those whose lives and choices make them creatures fit for hell go there. I am not sure of how this will play out in the great judgement but I do not presume to make up something. Jesus said to take care you do not go there and I am not going there if all proceeds as it has been these last 40 years.

So we see from this verse that what they are being cast into after death is the Lake of fire. But this is only being used in a figurative not a literal sense. To show we are not immediately sent to be tormented after death in the grave(Hell:Sheol).

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Again, you presume to know that which you cannot possibly know. The scriptures are made subordinant to your understanding. If they do not fit, you decided they are only figurative and not describing something real without realizing that the fear is only figurative then. It all makes no sense and does not fit how real people think.

Why it is important to you that there is no hell and when Jesus talked of hell he really only meant the grave, something no one is afraid of?

mmksparbud said:

Nope--but you are certainly entitled to your version. There is nothing about 7 years---it is plainly stated 1000 years though. And that is how long Satan will be in the pit, contemplating his navel.

ev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

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Years are as days in prophecy(Ez 4:6, Num 14:34) but your right that is my bad it was only about three years not seven(I was thinking of another prophecy).

Dorothy Mae said:

Yes I’m know. I was disagreeing with a poster who insists “hell” just means the grave. I was trying to point out that Jesus’ statements make no sense if hell=grave.

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Glory to God I understand now. praise God.

Dorothy Mae said:

Then it makes no sense to add "throw in the grave" and what is more, who in the Bible, including Jesus, talked about God able to destroy you at any time? Might have been but who. This is not the picture of God that Jesus or the prophets presented.
It Luke makes no difference as it the same teaching being described. That you think it is a different story because one used "destroy" tells me that your theory will remain in tact despite what the scriptures say.

This is the most common Christian I meet. "Don't confuse me with the scriptures, I have already made up my mind." But I see in the teaching of Jesus that Hell is not merely the grave. Jesus was not teaching us to be deathly afraid of God who can destroy us at any moment for no given reason. The interpretation you paint on the verses describe that kind of being.
Hell is a real place not a figurative place since the "fear" needs to be real and nnot figurative. Otherwise it is like saying to be afraid of Captain Hook. Hell is not the grave since no one is afraid of the grave, not before he taught and not afterwards.
I think you are submitting the scriptures to your own limited information or understanding. You have to figure it all out and therefore negate the warning that Jesus gave making Hell merely the grave. Reduces the fear to nothing at all since no one is afraid of the grave and you do not even see mature believers running around afraid that God can destroy body and soul tomorrow. So I reject your theory on the matter.

My own position is that the grave is where men bury their dead so that disease and stick do not ruin the lives of the living. Not scary at all and nothing to fear. People come to graves all the time and no one is afraid of them. Those whose lives and choices make them creatures fit for hell go there. I am not sure of how this will play out in the great judgement but I do not presume to make up something. Jesus said to take care you do not go there and I am not going there if all proceeds as it has been these last 40 years.
Again, you presume to know that which you cannot possibly know. The scriptures are made subordinant to your understanding. If they do not fit, you decided they are only figurative and not describing something real without realizing that the fear is only figurative then. It all makes no sense and does not fit how real people think.

Why it is important to you that there is no hell and when Jesus talked of hell he really only meant the grave, something no one is afraid of?

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1. He has the ability to destroy and create at will. That is shown throughout the bible and reiterated again in Matt 10:28.

2. It's different because one the person is being cast into hell, yes it could still be the grave being spoken of in luke but I lean more towards it referring to the figurative place of punishment meaning of(Geenna). Like I said, it could definitely still be referring to the grave in Luke I have to do a bit more study on the Greek for this one. Again though if it is the figurative version then it is just a figurative not a literal representation of what will happen.

3. You may believe what you wish about me, but I base what I say solely on scripture and nothing else.

4. We should not fear man at all who can only the destroy the body, but we should fear the Lord who can destroy the body and soul that is the clear meaning of it. Again it does not say he will but he has the ability to, scripture says that he will reserve punishment until the Day of Judgment so that is what it will be.

5. You misunderstand, it is only these two verses that are speaking figuratively, the lake of fire is real as can be I have said as much multiple times. And hell exists just as much as you and I do. You can't get past these to verses that is why your not understanding what I tell you.

6. We have no reason to fear the death or the grave/hell if we follow Christ as we will be raised up at the Resurrection to live eternally with him. What we SHOULD fear the Lake of Fire that awaits all those who break the Law of Christ.

7. Again sister you seem to be unable to get past these two verses and misunderstand all that I am saying to you.
A. Hell is the grave sheol, Hades the place the all the dead go when they die. They sleep in the grave/hell.
B. The lake of fire is the place of eternal torment that all those who break the Law of Christ and cast into on the day of Judgment.
C. These two verse are only a figurative warning to show us what the Lord is capable of that man is not, that is all and nothing more. There are dozens of verses throughout the bible that show what will happen if we break the law in a literal sense these two are not them.