Anti-War? more like pro-communist.

panterapat

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"Sales taxes are massively regressive"

You are right. Any excess tax is regressive. I'd like to cut the fat from the gov't also. Better watch out. You're starting to sound a little like a Democrat turned Republican(like me).

If only Saddam would follow "The Golden Rule" there would be no need for our presence over there.
 
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crazyfingers

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Today at 09:54 AM panterapat said this in Post #21

"Sales taxes are massively regressive"

You are right. Any excess tax is regressive. I'd like to cut the fat from the gov't also. Better watch out. You're starting to sound a little like a Democrat turned Republican(like me).

If only Saddam would follow "The Golden Rule" there would be no need for our presence over there.

Actually I'm a former libertarian turned turned a civil libertarian and economic moderate.  I have only once voted for a republican.

It would be difficult for me to ever vote for a republican until the republican party is no longer under the control of the extreme religious right wing.
 
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caley

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Actually, a lot of the stuff in the OP is quite true, which is unfortunate. I get e-mail from MoveOn.org (although I don't read it anymore, because it's gotten too commie for my taste). The conspiracy theorist in me wants to believe that the communist leanings of most anti-war groups happens deliberately in an attempt to discredit the anti-war movement, although I'm not convinced of this, so don't quote me on that.

There are, however, many non-communist anti-war activists/organizations. Here are some links to a few.

Justin Raimondo and the Antiwar.com team (a Libertarian antiwar site):
www.antiwar.com
(disclaimer: do not judge this site based on the biweekly column of Justin Raimondo. I can't stand that whiny little baby, but there are good columnists on the site. Be sure to read Eye on the Empire by Alan Bock [my personal favorite column there], and The Old Cause by Joseph Stromberg. Also good is Letter to Israel by Ran HaCohen)

Ron Paul (Libertarian posing as Republican; Congressman, R-TX)
www.house.gov/paul

Harry Browne (Libertarian presidential candidate in 2000)
www.harrybrowne.com
 
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sklippstein

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Yesterday at 10:01 AM crazyfingers said this in Post #22



Actually I'm a former libertarian turned turned a civil libertarian and economic moderate.  I have only once voted for a republican.

It would be difficult for me to ever vote for a republican until the republican party is no longer under the control of the extreme religious right wing.


WHY???? Because the extreme religious right wing wants to bring this country back to Christianity..........Christianity that our original founding fathers had implanted?
 
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SavedByGrace3

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20th March 2003 at 05:12 PM panterapat said this in Post #5

Good post Brother Max! Like I have said elsewhere. IMO 70% of the anti-war group are actually anti-Bush. Socialists, anarchists, radicals without a cause(or rather, any cause), clueless college students spoon fed Marxism by their professors, etc.

Agreed pitterpat..
Mal-contents in search of a cause.

Let's spread the rumor that Bush is a great lover of Baskin Robbins and Ben&Jerry's .... and then watch these grand dopes protest ice cream. See where they take that.
 
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SavedByGrace3

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20th March 2003 at 06:01 PM juiblex said this in Post #8

oh for crying out loud, this is simple war-time propaganda used to stir up nationalistic feelings in Americans. Very simple, very transparent disgusting message...




Right....
and all of us right wing, religious fundie, zionist supporting, war mongering facists are controlling the government and the press and are driving history toward armegeddon in a subconscious desire to see prophecy fulfilled...

he he he he

Come back when you graduate high school...
(and for God's sake find some better reading material!)

do your parent know where you are???
 
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Rae

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Hm...so the Pope being anti-war is because he's being funded by organizations you think are Communist, and anyone who agrees with him must be a Communist? Interesting. I'm not sure the Catholics here would agree with you.

Even if the groups you mention are themselves communist, that no more makes people who agree with their position on the war communist than people who agree with the Pope. People of all ideological viewpoints are opposed to this war, conservative, moderate, and all sorts of liberal, including liberal non-communists. I could just as easily say that anyone who supports this war is pro-corporate greed, given that large oil corporations and corp.s like Halliburton are getting massive contracts out of this war. But I know better. You should, too.
 
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crazyfingers

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Today at 09:03 AM sklippstein said this in Post #25




WHY???? Because the extreme religious right wing wants to bring this country back to Christianity..........Christianity that our original founding fathers had implanted?

I reject christianity and I have no intention of allowing anyone to force it onto me.

How did the founding fathers implant christianity?  Please demonstrate that.
 
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ACougar

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20th March 2003 at 05:01 PM juiblex said this in Post #8

oh for crying out loud, this is simple war-time propaganda used to stir up nationalistic feelings in Americans. Very simple, very transparent disgusting message.

communism = anti-war
communism = anti-american, non-patriotic
therefore anti-war = anti-american

what a load of tripe. Its no different to these:
pacific_prop04_vzoom.jpg


jbull.gif


http://www.geocities.com/gothicmonarch/photo2.html

*kicks geocities for not cooperating*

Look at them all, now, these are taught in public schools as part of propaganda in war, all show the same message as the article, it is unpatriotic not to go to war.

And really, its simple ad hominem when you come down to it, and flimsy in its obvious attempts to alienate those who dont conform with governmental opinion.



The Anti-War movement has a very broad base, attacking it becuse it happens to include some questionable organizations is simple slander.
 
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Today at 12:27 AM hobart schmedly said this in Post #27

Right....
and all of us right wing, religious fundie, zionist supporting, war mongering facists are controlling the government and the press and are driving history toward armegeddon in a subconscious desire to see prophecy fulfilled...

where on earth did i mention the words armageddon, prophecy, fundie, religious, zionist, war-mongering, fascists? Please, i would just love for you to inform me how on earth any of the sarcastic irrelevant straw-man ranting of yours has either anything to do with the OP or with my post, and please, outline it in easy to understand steps, because thats a bugger of a jump in reasoning.

Unless of course it was nothing more than you trying to discredit my position through placing words that i have never uttered in my mouth, which would be both completely dishonest and un-Christian of you to do so.




Come back when you graduate high school...
(and for God's sake find some better reading material!)

do your parent know where you are???

Wow, major ad hominem number 2, youre on a roll arent you. Now you attack my age rather than any points i have made, you arent by any standards making your position any more credible by doing so. Rather pathetic really. Come back when you realise old age isn't indicative of knowledge and reasoning skills ;) I think youve provided a top notch example of that myself.

Absolutely pathetic.
 
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sklippstein

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Today at 10:47 AM crazyfingers said this in Post #29



I reject christianity and I have no intention of allowing anyone to force it onto me.

How did the founding fathers implant christianity?  Please demonstrate that.


Crazyfinger the thread "Founding Fathers" in the IDD forum pretty well details this:

http://www.christianforums.com/threads/35890.html
 
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panterapat

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"the Pope being anti-war "

I am Catholic and felt uneasy being in disagreement with the pope. But actually, the only part ot the "Just War Theory" that this war did not meet is the "every other option has been exhausted" part.

Ther pope must preach peace. He really has no choice in this matter. And yes, it most likely would be closer to God's Will for there to not be a war, but God can bring good out of this war also. Had Saddam's heart changed, htere would not have been a war. Now finally, the Iraqi people will be free of torture and fear.
 
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crazyfingers

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Ryder

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20th March 2003 at 06:01 PM juiblex said this in Post #8

oh for crying out loud, this is simple war-time propaganda used to stir up nationalistic feelings in Americans. Very simple, very transparent disgusting message.

communism = anti-war
communism = anti-american, non-patriotic
therefore anti-war = anti-american

what a load of tripe. Its no different to these:
pacific_prop04_vzoom.jpg


jbull.gif


http://www.geocities.com/gothicmonarch/photo2.html

*kicks geocities for not cooperating*

Look at them all, now, these are taught in public schools as part of propaganda in war, all show the same message as the article, it is unpatriotic not to go to war.

And really, its simple ad hominem when you come down to it, and flimsy in its obvious attempts to alienate those who dont conform with governmental opinion.


What's wrong with these posters? Really? You know, it's ironic, but the pictures you're using to make some point about propaganda and whatnot aren't actually very repleat with flaws. In fact they're all relatively accurate messages.

The Japanese in WW2 were aggressive and conducted their war with savagery (ask some real POWS, see what they say).

If you could fight to stop the axis, you should. If you didn't, then how is it that you deserve to live in the liberated world?

And what you probably thought was your best picture for your case, the one where a german stabs a baby with a bayonette. Really think about that one. The Nazi's slaughtered six million jews (men women and children), and you're saying that a poster portraying them as baby killers is bad propaganda?! It's really just amazingly prophetic, ironically accurate. You're darn right you'd be unpatriotic not to go to war in those cases, please find some better examples next time.

EDIT - I think I fixed it, the computer I'm using is really glitchy.
 
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i think you've missed my point entirely, i'm well aware of the history here. My point was, they we're emotive images playing on the fears, values and prejudices of the times in order to stimulate patriotism. I can find you pictures from WW2 germany that do exactly the same, i have a book of them. The reason i didnt choose to include those was because the text is a large part of the propaganda, and im not sure terribly many people here speak Serbian. The fact is, the truth isnt the issue at hand, its what will stir up the populace the most and rile them up. Truth is always the first casualty of war, right? And that is what both these posters and the article have in common.
 
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sklippstein

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Yesterday at 10:16 PM crazyfingers said this in Post #34




That topic is 11 pages long.  Care to quote what you think demonstrates your point?


Crazyfingers, the first 2 pages are excellent points demonstrating my POV. IF u wish to continue this discussion, I think the recourse would be to use that thread to continue this.
 
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Brimshack

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The anti-Jap poster does not merely single out the actions of Japanese soldiers committing attrocities. Rather, it effectively promotes an image of all Japanese as inherently cruel. I have seen others, such as a comparison between Japanese and Chinese from the times, describing the Japanese as always forwning, etc. the problem with such posters is that they foster a cruelty which is itself unrelated to any constructive effort to oppose the Japanese militarily or to counteract their attrocities. Such wreckless propoganda was itself responsible for many human rights violations against the Japanese, everything from torture and murder of Japanese POWs by in some cases to the mass internment of otherwise loyal Americans, who happened to be of Japanese descent.

Ju'iblex has a very good point?

As to the second poster, note that it goes beyone saying that going to war is a good idea, it makes not going to war a shameful act. When people turn from arguing the merits of an idea to social blackmail, the goal is to subvert reasoning capacities, not to advance reasonable causes. Again wreckless blackmail.

…and I find the unwarranted personal attack on Ju'iblex is indeed pathetic. With or withouit a diploma, her grasp of world events far surpasses many of the rest of us on this board.

As to the OP, pleqase note it's relation to the thread title. If the article is really about the funding sources and control of anti-war protests, the thread title itself goes beyond that to suggest quite literally that anyone who is against the war really is pro-communist. Thus, the thread itself was given a simple commie-bashing spin over and beyond the already biased source from which it draws inspiration. There is every reason to treat the OP as a simple case of slander against any and all who do not back the war.
 
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