When Do You Forgive?

S. Tellez

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The Lord tells us that we must forgive someone who has repented of their sin:

[3] Take heed to yourselves; if your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him;
[4] and if he sins against you seven times in the day, and turns to you seven times, and says, `I repent,' you must forgive him." Luke 17:3-4 RSV

However, there are those who think you should forgive before someone repents. What do you think?

We are suppose to forgive as God forgives, at repentance and not before.
 
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RaymondG

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Forgiveness releases the forgiver of the hurt and pain and emotional turmoil resulting from the incident. It has little to do with the person being forgiven. The one committing the crime, most likely, couldn't care less whether we forgive them, and they arent affected one way or another..... The forgiver, however, is affected greatly......Carrying the hurt and pain of an incident for a long time is detrimental to your physical and spiritual health. When you forgive, you are set free from this hurt and pain. Dont we want to be free?

Woe to them who let the criminal hold the keys to their physical and emotional health.....by requiring their repentance first, before releasing their hurt, anger and pain. Take the keys back, by forgiving without any prerequisites.....

RaymondG
No phD
 
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S. Tellez

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Christ dying for all does not mean God forgave elective crimes. He overlooked or passed over what they had done in ignorance. "Forgive them Father for they are ignorant". The word there translated as forgive is wrongly translated. That word means to overlook, to hold it not against them because they were not accountable. They put Christ to death in ignorance. Peter says so. So we are to forgive as God does. At repentance and not before. And we are to overlook and not be petty at things done in ignorance. God does not hold people accountable when they are not responsible. Neither should we be. They did not proclaim forgiveness to the captives. They proclaimed liberty to the captives.
 
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SpiritRehab

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[3] Take heed to yourselves; if your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him;
[4] and if he sins against you seven times in the day, and turns to you seven times, and says, `I repent,' you must forgive him." Luke 17:3-4 RSV

However, there are those who think you should forgive before someone repents. What do you think?

The Truth is with you.
We don't listen to people.
We listen to the Word of YHWH:
We forgive those who repent & ask forgiveness.
IF they are too rebellious to repent
OR too proud to ask forgiveness,
We cast them out of our fellowship
BUT still Love our enemy
by asking YHWH to grant them to repentance.
We do not allow unrepentant hypocrisy in the fellowship
We are a fellowship of repentant hypocrites,
actively trying to help each other overcome
through communal prayer & support;
similar to AA,
but with much more stringent requirements for fellowship:
Faith in at least the Elementary Principles of the Gospel and a genuine desire to overcome sin;
not for salvation,
which is only by Grace through Faith,
but for YHWH's glory
in the eyes of men & demons
who witness our transformation.
 
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RaymondG

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The Truth is with you.
We don't listen to people.
We listen to the Word of YHWH:
We forgive those who repent & ask forgiveness.
IF they are too rebellious to repent
OR too proud to ask forgiveness,
We cast them out of our fellowship
BUT still Love our enemy
by asking YHWH to grant them to repentance.
We do not allow unrepentant hypocrisy in the fellowship
We are a fellowship of repentant hypocrites,
actively trying to help each other overcome
through communal prayer & support;
similar to AA,
but with much more stringent requirements for fellowship:
Faith in at least the Elementary Principles of the Gospel and a genuine desire to overcome sin;
not for salvation,
which is only by Grace through Faith,
but for YHWH's glory
in the eyes of men & demons
who witness our transformation.
So your advice is, no matter what people say, dont forgive anyone who doesnt repent...because this is God's will?
 
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Justatruthseeker

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The Lord tells us that we must forgive someone who has repented of their sin:

[3] Take heed to yourselves; if your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him;
[4] and if he sins against you seven times in the day, and turns to you seven times, and says, `I repent,' you must forgive him." Luke 17:3-4 RSV

However, there are those who think you should forgive before someone repents. What do you think?
If he hasn’t repented yet, rebuke is the only option. But one must be careful and make sure the rebuke is not a judgemental rebuke, lest they be judged themselves.
 
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LisaMC-D

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On Forgiveness

At the heart of the Lord’s Prayer is this line: “Forgive us our sins as we forgive others.” It is a command with a terrible consequence if we do not forgive. So we had best learn how to be good forgivers.

In my work as a Christian therapist, I am constantly involved in a process of conflict resolution which seeks forgiveness. I must say that forgiveness is a much more complex matter than any brief comment can address. For example, here are five points that often are glossed over, leading to later problems.

First, forgiveness is not the same as tolerance. We can only forgive what people actually do wrong. Forgiveness is not giving someone a pass. Tolerance is saying that it was not really wrong what they did, which would not be forgiveness at all; in fact, it would be a lie if they really did do wrong. Giving someone a pass would then be enabling and even encouraging them to do it again.

Second, you and I only have responsibility (and even the power) to forgive what people do to hurt us. If they hurt other people who are strangers to us, then it is not our place to forgive, but neither can we hold a grudge against them; it is none of our business, it is between them and who they hurt, and God. On the other hand, we don’t have to be stupid and allow them to also hurt us; we may have to take measures to protect ourselves and our families (or our nation) from violent people who seek us harm.

Third, forgiving does not necessarily mean trusting. Once trust is broken, the offending party must earn the trust back by trustworthiness over time. Often we are to forgive but we must avoid the person so that they cannot continue to hurt us.

Fourth, forgiveness is an internal, one way gift we give ourselves so we can heal from the wound(s). The saying is so true: Holding a grudge is like eating poison and waiting for the other person to die. We must choose to not hold a grudge and we must make a deliberate decision to “let go and let God.” The offending party does not even need to know about our forgiveness.

Fifth, forgiveness does not always mean reconciliation. For there to be any kind of reconciliation, the offending party must admit to the wrong done, repent, and seek to make amends. Then reconciliation is possible with forgiveness. However, if the offending party doesn’t acknowledge the wrong done and the hurt inflicted, or does not promise to avoid repeating the offense, then the ‘victim’ must keep a distance and/or protect themselves.. Forgiveness does not mean rebuilding trust unless the perpetrator repents and changes.

Remember, Jesus told His disciples to “shake the dust of their sandals” and move on when they and the gospel message were rejected. And check out Jesus’ teaching in Matthew 18:15-17: “If your brother or sister sins against you, go to them privately and point it out, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses’ [as the Law requires]. If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church [authorities]; and if they refuse to listen even to them, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector [that is, avoid them].”

Sometimes avoidance is the best and most honest way to deal with people who keep hurting us by their behavior. We sure don't want to enable their behavior by pretending it is OK with us. But we must at first let them know clearly what they have done and give them a chance to apologize and amend their ways.

- Bruce Atkinson, PhD
Christian counselor and licensed psychologist
Thank you for sharing this.
 
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fat wee robin

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our child forgives when kids at school hurt her
past yr a boy was kicking her everyday and never told me

finally she told me and told her to tell him to stop
he would not so I said next time, kick him back
she did and he stopped, Finally

should she have just let it go on the whole yr and forgive him over and over and over?
No, she taught him a very important lesson .There are conséquences to actions either immediately or later .
 
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fat wee robin

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Where is the teach about learning anything, it says to forgive, it doesn't say anything about learning anything.
Well God gives us common sense too , and learning is a very important feature of God's word .

As for the burglar .If he were violent and had not been caught because you did not report the burglary ,and he damaged someone seriously ,would you not in part be responsible ?

Also is it not bit of hypocrisy, if you reported the burglary to the police . That is Action , that is revenge, is it not ? If, as you seem to be saying so adamantly, that we should forgive full stop ,without taking any redress at all, this does not add up .
 
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fat wee robin

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On Forgiveness

At the heart of the Lord’s Prayer is this line: “Forgive us our sins as we forgive others.” It is a command with a terrible consequence if we do not forgive. So we had best learn how to be good forgivers.

In my work as a Christian therapist, I am constantly involved in a process of conflict resolution which seeks forgiveness. I must say that forgiveness is a much more complex matter than any brief comment can address. For example, here are five points that often are glossed over, leading to later problems.

First, forgiveness is not the same as tolerance. We can only forgive what people actually do wrong. Forgiveness is not giving someone a pass. Tolerance is saying that it was not really wrong what they did, which would not be forgiveness at all; in fact, it would be a lie if they really did do wrong. Giving someone a pass would then be enabling and even encouraging them to do it again.

Second, you and I only have responsibility (and even the power) to forgive what people do to hurt us. If they hurt other people who are strangers to us, then it is not our place to forgive, but neither can we hold a grudge against them; it is none of our business, it is between them and who they hurt, and God. On the other hand, we don’t have to be stupid and allow them to also hurt us; we may have to take measures to protect ourselves and our families (or our nation) from violent people who seek us harm.

Third, forgiving does not necessarily mean trusting. Once trust is broken, the offending party must earn the trust back by trustworthiness over time. Often we are to forgive but we must avoid the person so that they cannot continue to hurt us.

Fourth, forgiveness is an internal, one way gift we give ourselves so we can heal from the wound(s). The saying is so true: Holding a grudge is like eating poison and waiting for the other person to die. We must choose to not hold a grudge and we must make a deliberate decision to “let go and let God.” The offending party does not even need to know about our forgiveness.

Fifth, forgiveness does not always mean reconciliation. For there to be any kind of reconciliation, the offending party must admit to the wrong done, repent, and seek to make amends. Then reconciliation is possible with forgiveness. However, if the offending party doesn’t acknowledge the wrong done and the hurt inflicted, or does not promise to avoid repeating the offense, then the ‘victim’ must keep a distance and/or protect themselves.. Forgiveness does not mean rebuilding trust unless the perpetrator repents and changes.

Remember, Jesus told His disciples to “shake the dust of their sandals” and move on when they and the gospel message were rejected. And check out Jesus’ teaching in Matthew 18:15-17: “If your brother or sister sins against you, go to them privately and point it out, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses’ [as the Law requires]. If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church [authorities]; and if they refuse to listen even to them, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector [that is, avoid them].”

Sometimes avoidance is the best and most honest way to deal with people who keep hurting us by their behavior. We sure don't want to enable their behavior by pretending it is OK with us. But we must at first let them know clearly what they have done and give them a chance to apologize and amend their ways.

- Bruce Atkinson, PhD
Christian counselor and licensed psychologist
Thankyou for this balanced and comprehensive post . It is needed .
 
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Dan the deacon

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So your advice is, no matter what people say, dont forgive anyone who doesnt repent...because this is God's will?
I can't speak for the one you posed this question too. But I will speak from simple wisdom given to me by our Lord.
You should never wait until the one who wronged you to repent. In truth he's not the main reason you forgive. You forgive for your own soul. Harboring hate does no one any good.
 
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fat wee robin

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Christ dying for all does not mean God forgave elective crimes. He overlooked or passed over what they had done in ignorance. "Forgive them Father for they are ignorant". The word there translated as forgive is wrongly translated. That word means to overlook, to hold it not against them because they were not accountable. They put Christ to death in ignorance. Peter says so. So we are to forgive as God does. At repentance and not before. And we are to overlook and not be petty at things done in ignorance. God does not hold people accountable when they are not responsible. Neither should we be. They did not proclaim forgiveness to the captives. They proclaimed liberty to the captives.
Thankyou for shedding light here .Yes overlook is much better ,as forgiveness gives
the impression of just that ,that there are no more conséquences .
 
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Persis

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About 2003, I was walking to a grocery store to buy a Sunday paper. I looked back and saw a group of three teenagers rapidly walking towards me. They appeared capable of doing violence. I asked, "What do you want?." One of them said, "Money." I surrendered the cash from my wallet. I knew I had to give them all my money. They let me keep my wallet and ran away. A retired bricklayer in that neighborhood was confronted by robbers. He put up his fists and tried to fight. They kicked him until he was unconscious. He died in the hospital a couple of days later.

If I would have hit back, the robbers may have tried to kill me. I forgave the loss of the money. I did not know who they were and did not consider pressing charges. A few more bad incidents and I moved to a safer community.

Gandhi said, "If it is an eye for an eye, the whole world will become blind."

dqhall, I think that in this specific situation what you did was the wisest thing to do. You were also outnumbered !

I remember I used to work by a park where where we were warned not to go there by yourself. It was such a beautiful park and it was a wonderful way to get exercise and fresh air during work breaks, but it was deeply forested and invited crime.. So we were instructed that if someone does what was done to you, that we should just give them all of our money, because it is not worth it. Not worth the risk.

I do not think what the other man who decided to fight, did was wrong, speaking of sin. I don't believe this was a case of an eye for an eye. He tried to protect himself. I think he just made a wrong choice in the moment considering he was outnumbered, and also that it just was not worth keeping the money.

This happened to my former boss in that park. He gave all his money, whatever they wanted, but the one thug demonstrated he had a gun underneath his shirt, and he was clearly pointing it at my boss. It could have been fake, he never found out, but in this case, my boss for sure, would not want to mess with the thug(s).

p.s . why are you quoting Ghandi ?
 
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stealthsaint

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The Lord tells us that we must forgive someone who has repented of their sin:

[3] Take heed to yourselves; if your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him;
[4] and if he sins against you seven times in the day, and turns to you seven times, and says, `I repent,' you must forgive him." Luke 17:3-4 RSV

However, there are those who think you should forgive before someone repents. What do you think
Forgiveness is very related to setting US free from the captivity of un-forgiveness that harbors resentments, possibly anger, in reality a form of pride. To forgive is the most important surrender to gain the peace Lord gave, left with US. "Forgive them for they know not what they do" is related to a declaration we need to make modeling JesUS on His /OUR cross. OUR cry is ALSO forgive them/US, to include our self as long as "old man" maintains expression. To forgive is the first step, in moving "upward". I see the whole truth in forgiveness as mostly forgetting the injustice and the pain involved: "the reason we do not forgive". It still hurts! the key component as Paul stated relates to OUR inheritance in Christ, It is our identity in Christ we need to "lay hold of":Identifying with OUR position of having been forgiven and reciprocating.

Pp 3:12 Not that I have already obtained or am already perfected, but I pursue, if even I may lay hold of that for which I also have been laid hold of by Christ Jesus.
Pp 3:13 Brothers, I do not account of myself to have laid hold; but one thing I do: Forgetting the things which are behind and stretching forward to the things which are before,
Pp 3:14 I pursue toward the goal for the prize to which God in Christ Jesus has called me upward.
 
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If you do not forgive an unrepentant sinner, what do you then do, hold a grudge, keep your anger, never forget the wrong done?

Well, where was your eternal destination going to be before you repented and asked God's forgiveness through Christ?
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Ghandhi recognized (as is the case, as many others also notice) that most Christians he saw refused to repent of their lives (thus did not live like Christ),
but Ghandhi still, as far as known, never repented of his own life apart from and opposed to Christ,
so he is not as far as known ever saved and definitely not a trustworthy nor competent nor reliable source for anything.
 
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However, there are those who think you should forgive before someone repents. What do you think?

We have Christ set before us as our Example, that we might follow in His steps (1 Peter 2:21), how does our Lord show us the way? He forgives preemptively, this He does time and again. Indeed, He has shown us in His own Prayer, "forgive us our trespasses even as we forgive those who have trespassed against us."

In light of the forgiveness we have received, unconditionally in Christ and from Him, let us therefore set our gaze upon Him, walking forward in forgiveness.

None came before Him as He bore Himself naked on the cross in suffering to seek His forgiveness, but what does He say? "Father, forgive them!"

Go and do likewise.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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