When does the end times begin?

The Times said:

With reference to my reply to you below.....

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/when-does-the-end-times-begin.8075144/page-2#post-73002910

In Semitic language when last days is referred to, it means the days last, leading up to the last day in the singular. Peter seeing those miracles performed by them 35 years earlier, thought their days in the plural, were leading them to the last day in the singular.

Peter would correct himself and to revise his position, some 35 years later, as people were getting antsy and saying when are the last days?, with this brought into question the last day in the singular and was an open invitation for scoffers. That is why Peter had to write 2 Peter 3 in particular, so to silence the scofers and to re-affirm that though he had originally believed that the last days plural leading up to the last day in the singular, was 35 years ago. Peter tries to defend his original position, by saying to God 1000 years is like a day, so this line of reasoning is his revised position.

Read my post link above and discern that Peter revised his position. You have to use exegesis methods to decipher Peter's position, not so much what he was preaching concerning the last day in the singular.

I believe I have provided you a compelling argument, that Peter did in fact revise his position.

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Peter speaking under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit on the Day of Pentecost cannot contradict what He said many years later under the inspiration of the same Holy Spirit.
Why? Because the Holy Spirit stands outside of time and space.

The pouring out of the Spirit prophesied by Joel did not wait until Christ's Second Coming. It happened on the Day of Pentecost.
Therefore, at least part of Joel's prophecy began on that day.

We also find the partial fulfillment of an old testament verse below.

Joh 19:34 But one of the soldiers pierced His side with a spear, and immediately blood and water came out.
Joh 19:35 And he who has seen has testified, and his testimony is true; and he knows that he is telling the truth, so that you may believe.
Joh 19:36 For these things were done that the Scripture should be fulfilled, "NOT ONE OF HIS BONES SHALL BE BROKEN."
Joh 19:37 And again another Scripture says, "THEY SHALL LOOK ON HIM WHOM THEY PIERCED."

The rest of Zechariah 12:10 was fulfilled on the Day of Pentecost, with the pouring out of the Spirit and those mourning for the one they had seen pierced. (See Acts of the Apostles 2:36-37)

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BABerean2 said:

Peter speaking under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit on the Day of Pentecost cannot contradict what He said many years later under the inspiration of the same Holy Spirit.
Why? Because the Holy Spirit stands outside of time and space.

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When you preach days last, you.will get scoffers if nothing happens. Peter who did not know the day or the hour hinted at the days last leading up to the last day. John in his epistles dated 90AD, two decades after 70AD context fell in the same trap by declaring the hour last of the last day.

The fact remains Peter nor John knew the days last or the hour last leading up to the last day of the Lord's return. The Holy Spirit said no one knows the hour or the day.

There was an end of days Christian movement in the 80s and the scoffers emerged 30 years later. So Peter and John thought it to be days last or hour last, but as to the Holy Spirit inspiration, I leave it to Jesus when he said no-one knows the day or the hour, not even the Angels in Heaven, except the Father. Jesus said it will be like the days of Noah.

BABerean2 said:

The pouring out of the Spirit prophesied by Joel did not wait until Christ's Second Coming. It happened on the Day of Pentecost.
Therefore, at least part

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I agree in part, but not to the days or hour leading to the last day at Christ's return. Joel 2 is a future post-trib, pre and post-wrath Extinction Level Event, that is termed the Fire of God's Jealousy that Peter revised 35 years later in 2 Peter 3.

Chinchilla said:

Do you assume that This Palestinian / Iran conflict against Israel will cause the punishment of nations for attacking Israel ?

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Yes, I do.
When the Islamic confederation as described in Psalms 83, commence their attack onto Israel, the Lord will destroy them all with His terrible Day of wrath by fire, earthquakes, storms and tsunamis.
Iran will attempt to fire nuke missiles, but the Lord will make them explode on the launch pad. Psalms 7:12-15, Habakkuk 3:14, Joel 3:4, +

The Times said:

When you preach days last, you.will get scoffers if nothing happens.

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You will be scoffed at if you propound nonsense, as well you should be. Don't be silly enough to confuse scoffing at nonsensical doctrines, which is entirely appropriate, with scoffing at "the promise of His coming" of which Scripture speaks. All Christians who confess the ancient creeds of the Church confess that our Lord "will come again to judge the quick and the dead." That doesn't mean they have to accept any "End Times" balderdash that anyone thinks up as though it was equivalent to the promises of God. How ridiculous would that be?

keras said:

Yes, I do.
When the Islamic confederation as described in Psalms 83, commence their attack onto Israel, the Lord will destroy them all with His terrible Day of wrath by fire, earthquakes, storms and tsunamis.
Iran will attempt to fire nuke missiles, but the Lord will make them explode on the launch pad. Psalms 7:12-15, Habakkuk 3:14, Joel 3:4, +

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So you think that we are near the end ?

keras said:

Iran will attempt to fire nuke missiles, but the Lord will make them explode on the launch pad. Psalms 7:12-15, Habakkuk 3:14, Joel 3:4, +

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Is this part of the CME event?

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Jipsah said:

That doesn't mean they have to accept any "End Times" balderdash that anyone thinks up as though it was equivalent to the promises of God. How ridiculous would that be?

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He did say that there would be 1290 days from the talking away of the "daily" and the abomination being set up as an additional answer to the question that was asked: "how long shall it be until the end of these wonders. (Notice He didn't say: "No man can know the day.)

And in 1492 Columbus sailed the ocean blue, there were four blood moons and God was opening up a new continent. A place prepared by God became the "earth" who helped the woman after the Foxe Book days came to an end after 1260 years of Pay Pal Persecution.

I know it sounds insane y'all. But so does the greatest nation on the planet having a Bible Belt. And i like it that way because it can make the empirical at least palatable, if you want to laugh it off. It's a tough thing to understand.

And the dragon spewed a river from his mouth like a flood during the dark ages to overtake the woman, but the USA was right here ready to open it's mouth to swallow it up after 1798 came to an end when pope Pius died in a French jail cell and they closed up the Vatican.

1) The Netherlands (2000)
2) Belgium (2003)
3) canada (2005)
4) Spain (2005)
5) South Africa (2006)
6) Norway (2009)
7) Sweden (2009)
8) Argentina (2010)
9) Iceland (2010)
10) Portugal (2010)
11) Denmark (2012)
12) Brazil (2013)
13) England and Wales (2013)
14) France (2013)
15) New Zealand (2013)
16) Uruguay (2013)
17) Luxembourg (2014)
18) Scotland (2014)
19) Finland: (signed 2015, effective 2017)
20) Ireland: (2015)
21) United States: (2015)<-------1290Days------->Sun/Moon.


I know it sounds elaborate, but the question was asked. What should we do? Sit on our hands? Give him a Peruvian Guinea pig instead?

But we don't have too much longer to wait to find out.

The Times said:

With reference to my reply to you below.....

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/when-does-the-end-times-begin.8075144/page-2#post-73002910

In Semitic language when last days is referred to, it means the days last, leading up to the last day in the singular. Peter seeing those miracles performed by them 35 years earlier, thought their days in the plural, were leading them to the last day in the singular.

Peter would correct himself and to revise his position, some 35 years later, as people were getting antsy and saying when are the last days?, with this brought into question the last day in the singular and was an open invitation for scoffers. That is why Peter had to write 2 Peter 3 in particular, so to silence the scofers and to re-affirm that though he had originally believed that the last days plural leading up to the last day in the singular, was 35 years ago. Peter tries to defend his original position, by saying to God 1000 years is like a day, so this line of reasoning is his revised position.

Read my post link above and discern that Peter revised his position. You have to use exegesis methods to decipher Peter's position, not so much what he was preaching concerning the last day in the singular.

I believe I have provided you a compelling argument, that Peter did in fact revise his position.

Click to expand...

This is an interpretation of what Peter said and not what Peter said.

back to
matthew 24
what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”

they asked Jesus 2 specific questions.....
1. what is the sign of your coming????
2. what is the end of the AGE????

I BELIEVE the answer to #1.... is in matthew 24:14
this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

the answer to #2 is a little more complicated....
as no one knows the day or hour but only the season or time...
verse 10 ....At that time
verse 23 .....At that time
36 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father

so what is the end of the AGE.....
JESUS is probably talking about the time of His 1st coming to his 2nd coming.....
what some call the CHURCH AGE before the 1000 years reign....
new covenant from 30 ad...Christ death..resurection....until today!!!!

As other ages have been Pre FLOOD AGE 4000-2500BC
POST FLOOD AGE TO coming of Messiah...2500-bc - 0 ad

So we have been in the Church age or Christian age for
about 2000 years
at the end of this age....
all these events will happen...world wars.....
wickedness of Noah...days of Sodom(homosexuality)....

then the gospel will go out in power as it did in the 1st century to all nations then Jesus will return.....

when the gospel goes into all nations is the real question?????

When does the end times begin?

When you hear of wars and rumors of wars.......
This was spoken by Jesus in about 33 ad, before the Jewish wars during 65-70ad....

Matthew 24:6
“And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled;
for all[fn] these things to be becoming/genesqai<1096>, but the end is not yet.
'For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and tumults, in divers place

http://www.bible.ca/pre-destruction70AD-george-holford-1805AD.htm.

From the conquest of their country by Pompey, about sixty years B. C. the Jews had, on several occasions, manifested a refractory spirit ; but after Judas the Gaulonite and Sadduc the Pharisee had taught them, that submission to the Roman assessments would pave the way to a state of abject slavery, this temper displayed itself with increasing malignity and violence. Rebellious tumults and insurrections became fame and more frequent and alarming ; and to these the mercenary exactions of Florus, the Roman governor, not a little contributed. At length Eleazer, son of the High Priest, persuaded those who officiated in the temple to reject the sacrifices of foreigners, and no longer to offer up prayers for them.Thus an insult was thrown upon Caesar, his sacrifice rejected, and the foundation of the Roman war laid. The disturbances among the Jews still continuing, Cestius Gallus, president of Syria, marched an army into Judea, in order to quell them, and his career was every where marked with blood and desolation. As he proceeded, he plundered and burnt the beautiful city of Zabulon, Joppa, and all the villages which lay in his way. At Joppa he slew of the inhabitants eight thousand four hundred. He laid waste the district of Narbatene, and, sending an army into Galilee, slew there two thousand of the seditious Jews................

While Jerusalem was a prey to these ferocious and devouring factions, every part of Judea was scourged and laid waste by bands of robbers and murderers, who plundered the towns; and, in case of resistance, slew the inhabitants, not sparing either women or children. Simon, son of Gioras, the commander of one of these bands, at the head of forty thousand banditti, having with some difficulty entered Jerusalem, gave birth to a third faction, and the flame of civil discord blazed out again, with still more destructive fury.

The three factions, rendered frantic by drunkenness, rage, and desperation, trampling on heaps of slain, fought against each other with brutal savageness and madness. Even such as brou't sacrifices to the temple were murdered. The dead bodies of priests and worshippers, both natives and foreigners were heaped together, and a lake of blood stagnated in the sacred courts. John of Gischala, who headed one of the factions, burnt storehouses full of provisions ; and Simon, his great antagonist, who headed another of them, soon afterwards followed his example. Thus they cut the very sinews of their own strength

Dave L said:

This is an interpretation of what Peter said and not what Peter said.

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True!
What Peter said cannot be taken on words alone, without a deep exegesis study on why he said what he said, given the context of situation.

Context of Situation
Look at Acts 2 written 35 years earlier than Peter's epistles.

Statement of Contentions, Issues and Facts
Peter was writing 2 Peter 3 to contend with the scoffers within the Church.
Peter presents issues justifying why the last days have not happened.
Peter provides facts that what happened in Noah's Days will happen in the last days.

A little side note: Noah's Days was an Extinction Level Event. 70AD or any other time in history has not been like Noah's Days, so think about it for a moment and reflect on it.

The question is not about what Peter said, rather why he said what he said, given the context of situation some 35 years later.

The evidence stands that there was no Extinction Level Event, even during the turbulent ties of rumours of wars leading up to the wars of 68AD and the final destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem in 70AD.

Considering all these possibilities as to why he said what he said, concerning Noah's Days and that a 1000 days is a day to the Lord, even during 65AD, where rumours of wars were a daily occurrence, then it is exegetically permissible to interpret Peter's change of mind, as a revision to what he said in Acts 2, some 35 years earlier.

So, you are write, we are not overwhelming concerned about what Peter said, but by doing a deep comparative of what he said, we are concerned as to why he said what he said, that is why he changed his mind and why he revised his position on the issue of the Days Last.

Protestantismvsthebible said:

End times? Bible only please

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I do not believe there will be any

Chinchilla said:

So you think that we are near the end ?

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Yes, there is now a convergence of signs for that.
What will happen at the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster, as the Lord destroys His enemies, is not the end, but a new beginning!

BABerean2 said:

Is this part of the CME event? .

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Yes.
The initial flash from an explosion of the suns surface, Isaiah 30:26a, consists of the full range of wave emissions; from light waves to microwaves. It will be, in fact be a massive Electro-Magnetic Pulse that will strike all the side of the earth facing the sun, without any warning; 8 minutes after the explosion, travelling at the speed of light.
The effects of an EMP are well known, we can replicate then in a small way with ground or satellite based generators, but also by a nuke EMP, that our enemies have and threaten to use to basically destroy our civilization.

So, the end times will begin with the Islamic peoples commencing their attack upon Israel. Psalms 83 They are well prepared with 1000's of rockets and Iran will prepare to fire a salvo of nuke missiles.
This EMP strike, accurately instigated by the Lord, onto armed nukes, will cause them to explode on the launch pad; destroying them and all the surrounding areas: Exactly as Psalms 7:10 says. Jeremiah 49:35-37 confirms it....I shall bring disaster upon Elam, [Iran] in My fierce anger....
And Zephaniah 2:4 gives us the information this will happen at mid-day Middle Eastern time.
Therefore; by looking at a globe map of the world, it can be seen that all of Europe, Africa, India, Western Russia and Eastern America, will be affected. They will all lose electric supply and communications.

But the main mass of ejected superheated hydrogen plasma will take 24 hours to arrive, travelling at 3.5 million mph. That will again strike the Middle East, wiping out all life, Zechariah 1:14-18, except a small number of Christian Jews, who will hide underground. Isaiah 29:4, Romans 9:27
This strike will kill millions, but as the earth rotates and moves along its orbital track and we will see it coming, most will survive by diving for cover, just as Isaiah 2:21 and Revelation 6:15-16, +, says.

Tutorman said:

I do not believe there will be any

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Jesus said just like Noah's Days. Is he right? What do you say?

The Times said:

Jesus said just like Noah's Days. Is he right? What do you say?

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It was and no I do not believe in the future nonsense.

keras said:

The initial flash from an explosion of the suns surface, Isaiah 30:26a,

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Extinction Level Event just like Noah's Days.
2 Peter 3 said what Jesus said.

Tutorman said:

It was and no I do not believe in the future nonsense.

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It was what?

The Reset of our Civilization:
The Word of God [the Bible] tells us that He is the Creator of all things. He has the ability to do anything that he chooses. He made the earth and set humans upon it.
It’s been nearly 2000 years since the last time we were given Divine instructions, that is: as written in the Bible. Since then, people have mostly pursued their own interests, worshipping false gods, promoting evolution and denying the existence of their Creator.

We are told that thousands of years ago people were in a similar situation, having degenerated into apostasy and sin. Only one righteous man and his family were kept alive as God destroyed all the rest by a worldwide flood. Jesus predicted that ‘once again it will be as in the days of Noah’ and when He comes again, we should be prepared. Matthew 24:37-44
The Creator God ‘reset civilization’ in Noah’s day and now we are facing the same judgement. God promised after the Flood, to never again use water or wipe out life so completely. Genesis 9:11

But in Deuteronomy 32:22 & 34-35, He tells us of a terrible fire punishment stored up for His enemies, on their Day of Doom. Isaiah 54:9-10
There are many descriptions in the prophesies of this sudden and devastating worldwide Day of fire and earthquakes, most are either ignored or allegorized because people cannot see any literal fulfilment. The biggest difficulty that most have, is realizing the difference between the Lord’s Day of vengeance and wrath and the Return of Jesus in His glory.

Isaiah 13:9-13 The Day of the Lord is coming, that cruel Day of wrath and fierce anger, to reduce the earth to desolation and to destroy the wicked there. The sun, moon and stars will give no light. Humans will become scarce, as rare as fine gold and the earth will quake at the wrath of God on the Day of His blazing anger.

This and many other prophesies cannot be reconciled with the glorious Return of Jesus, when ‘every eye will see Him’. It is clearly stated that on the Day of wrath, He will not be seen. Psalms 18:11, Habakkuk 3:4, Psalms 11:4-6

Noah's Days is an Extinction Level Event.
70AD is not an Extinction Level Event. 2 Peter 3 is not 70AD.

Simple mathematics

Noah's Days = 2 Peter 3 = Extinction Level Event