Eschatological and Millennial Theories and their problems.

BABerean2

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The 6Th Seal have obviously bot been opened yet

The 6th seal was opened by Christ about 2,000 years ago when John was shown what will occur in the future. The first part of verse 12 was written in the present tense during John's time. It is recorded below.
Your Bible says the same thing.



Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
Rev 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
Rev 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

.
 
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Douggg

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The 6th seal was opened by Christ about 2,000 years ago when John was shown what will occur in the future. It is recorded below.
Your Bible says the same thing.



Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
Rev 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
Rev 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

.
Opened, but not fulfilled.
 
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Riberra

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The 6th seal was opened by Christ about 2,000 years ago when John was shown what will occur in the future. The first part of verse 12 was written in the present tense during John's time. It is recorded below.
Your Bible says the same thing.



Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
Rev 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
Rev 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
John use the present tense because he describe everythng that he SAW IN THE VISION of the things to happen AS IF IT IS HAPPENING RIGHT NOW ...


John have seen the 6TH seal being opened IN A VISION as well that the 7 trumpets and the 7 Vials ....Can you show us from history that the 6Th Seal EVENT have occurred ?Of course not ...the 6Th Seal is still future to us...


I have already made the demomstration that SEAL 1...SEAL 2...SEAL 3 ..SEAL 4 and SEAL 5 correspond to EVENTS STILL RUNNING ON THE EARTH SINCE THAT JESUS HAVE ASCENDED TO HEAVEN.
 
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BABerean2

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John have seen the 6TH seal being opened IN A VISION ....Can you show us from history that the
6Th Seal EVENT have occured ?

I have already made the demomstration that SEAL 1...SEAL 2...SEAL 3 ..SEAL 4 and SEAL 5 correspond to EVENTS STILL RUNNING ON THE EARTH SINCE THAT JESUS HAVE ASCENDED TO HEAVEN.

Christ opened the 6th seal during the first century to show the future to John.

The events that John saw have not happened yet.


.
 
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Riberra

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Opened, but not fulfilled.
Revelation 6:12-17 through Revelation 19 about the Coming of Jesus on a white horse have not been fulfilled...and of course what follow after the coming of Jesus Revelation 20 Revelation 21 and Revelation 22 have not been fulfilled.

Seal 1 ,Seal 2,Seal 3, Seal 4, Seal 5 are still running on the Earth as we speak since Jesus have ascended to Heaven.

Seal 1 The Rider of the White Horse: Represent The Gospel of Jesus preached upon the Earth
Seal 2 The WARS ..
Seal 3 THE FAMINES
Seal 4 A War who have afflicted 1/4 of the surface of the Earth WW1 and WW2 ...
Seal 5 Christians Martyrs still occuring in Muslim countries as we speak .
 
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Riberra

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Christ opened the 6th seal during the first century to show the future to John.

The events that John saw have not happened yet.


.
Are you blind ?

Seal 1 ,Seal 2,Seal 3, Seal 4, Seal 5 are still running on the Earth as we speak since Jesus have ascended to Heaven.

Seal 1 The Rider of the White Horse: Represent The Gospel of Jesus preached upon the Earth
Seal 2 The WARS ..
Seal 3 THE FAMINES
Seal 4 A War who have afflicted 1/4 of the surface of the Earth WW1 and WW2 ...
Seal 5 Christians Martyrs still Stephen ..still occuring in Muslim countries as we speak .


Yet to come in a still unknown time in the Future.
Revelation 6:12-17 through Revelation 19 about the Coming of Jesus on a white horse have not been fulfilled...and of course what follow after the coming of Jesus Revelation 20 Revelation 21 and Revelation 22 have not been fulfilled.
 
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Douggg

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Revelation 6:12-17 through Revelation 19 about the Coming of Jesus on a white horse have not been fulfilled...and of course what follow after the coming of Jesus Revelation 20 Revelation 21 and Revelation 22 have not been fulfilled.
Riberra, the events in the seals - i.e messiah figure, then war, the starvation, then hunger, then martyrdom...

these are very specific events. They happen in an ordered.

While similar events have happen across different parts of the globe, at different times - it is not the seals in Revelation, because those events take place in that particular order.

There is bible prophecy that has been fulfilled exactly as you say...

Matthew 24:
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

But those are not the seal events. Those events in Matthew 24:7-8 are not the end.

The end begins when the Antichrist becomes King of Israel. That's when the 7 years start. Revelation is structured on the 7 years.
 
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Douggg

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Seal 1 The Rider of the White Horse: Represent The Gospel of Jesus preached upon the Earth
Seal 2 The WARS ..
Seal 3 THE FAMINES
Seal 4 A War who have afflicted 1/4 of the surface of the Earth WW1 and WW2 ...
Seal 5 Christians Martyrs still Stephen ..still occuring in Muslim countries as we speak .
But the events in the seals are not stop and start over events. Like WW1, then a time of prosperity, then WWII, some more prosperity...
 
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BABerean2

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Are you blind ?

Am I blind?

You should ask that question of someone who denies that we have the sun darkening, and the moon changing its brightness, and the stars falling from heaven in both Matthew chapter 24, and Revelation chapter 6 ???

Can you think of anyone ?


.
 
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Riberra

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Riberra, the events in the seals, messiah figure, then war, the starvation, then hunger, then martyrdom...

these are very specific events. They happen in an ordered.

While similar events have happen across different parts of the globe, at different times - it is not the seals in Revelation, because those events take place in that particular order.

There is bible prophecy that has been fulfilled exactly as you say...

Matthew 24:
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

But those are not the seal events. Those events in Matthew 24:7-8 are not the end.

The end begins when the Antichrist becomes King of Israel. That's when the 7 years start. Revelation is structured on the 7 years.
Riberra, the events in the seals, messiah figure, then war, the starvation, then hunger, then martyrdom...

these are very specific events. They happen in an ordered.

While similar events have happen across different parts of the globe, at different times - it is not the seals in Revelation, because those events take place in that particular order.

There is bible prophecy that has been fulfilled exactly as you say...

Matthew 24:
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

But those are not the seal events. Those events in Matthew 24:7-8 are not the end.

The end begins when the Antichrist becomes King of Israel. That's when the 7 years start. Revelation is structured on the 7 years.
Revelation 13 through Revelation 18 is about the Time When THE ANTICHRIST WILL TAKE POWER ....IT HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE SEALS

THE RIDER OF THE WHITE HORSE REPRESENT JESUS AND THE GOSPEL BEING PREACHED UPON THE WHOLE EARTH... THEN THE TIME OF THE END WILL COME.
Matthew 24:14
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world for a testimony unto all the nations; and then shall the end come.


THE 42 Months Reign of the Beast will precede the Coming of Jesus in Glory .. Jesus AT HIS COMING will put a END TO ALL OF THAT.
 
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Douggg

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Revelation 13 through Revelation 18 is about the Time When THE ANTICHRIST WILL TAKE POWER ....IT HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE SEALS

THE RIDER OF THE WHITE HORSE REPRESENT JESUS AND THE GOSPEL BEING PREACHED UPON THE WHOLE EARTH... THEN THE TIME OF THE END WILL COME.
Matthew 24:14
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world for a testimony unto all the nations; and then shall the end come.
Riberra, take any history book, starting with the first century, and you will find that there have been wars and famines all down through history following no particular order. Differently, the seals in Revelation 6 follow a very specific order. The seals in Revelation apply to the 7 years.
 
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Riberra

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Riberra, take any history book, starting with the first century, and you will find that there have been wars and famines all down through history following no particular order. Differently, the seals in Revelation 6 follow a very specific order. The seals in Revelation apply to the 7 years.
The point is exactly that Seal 1 ,Seal 2,Seal 3,Seal 4 and Seal 5 are the exact description of what Jesus said in Matthew 24:6-14 will happen ... and that they represent ONLY the beginning of sorrows
Matthew 24:6-14
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumors of wars; see that ye be not troubled: for [these things] must needs come to pass; but the end is not yet.

7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom; and there shall be famines and earthquakes in divers places.

8 But all these things are the beginning of travail.

9 Then shall they deliver you up unto tribulation, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all the nations for my name's sake.

10 And then shall many stumble, and shall deliver up one another, and shall hate one another.

11 And many false prophets shall arise, and shall lead many astray.[Pre-trib rapture preachers 1830 and other ''religious'' DOCTRINE.. MORMONS ...JEHOVAH WITNESSES who have arised around the same time .]

12 And because iniquity shall be multiplied, the love of the many shall wax cold.

13 But he that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved.

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world for a testimony unto all the nations; and then shall the end come.
 
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Douggg

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The point is exactly that Seal 1 ,Seal 2,Seal 3,Seal 4 and Seal 5 are the exact description of what Jesus
No, not exact, because historically the events described in Matthew 24:6-7 have not taken place in order like the events in the seals are. Which shows the seal events to pertain to a specific time period, the 7 years.
 
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Riberra

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No, not exact, because historically the events described in Matthew 24:6-7 have not taken place in order like the events in the seals are. Which shows the seal events to pertain to a specific time period, the 7 years.
Your own interpretation of the first Five Seals that you want to fit with your interpretation that the Rider of the white Horse is the Antichrist...
I have proved with Scripture in Post 1552 that the first 5 seal represent exactly what Jesus said will happen in Matthew 24:6-14 including the martyrs of the 5 Th Seal...whose numbers is cited to grown since Stephen to became a large crowd WEARING WHITE ROBES to large to number ...
 
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BABerean2

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Your own interpretation of the first Five Seals that you want to fit with your interpretation that the Rider of the white Horse is the Antichrist...
I have proved with Scripture in Post 1552 that the first 5 seal represent exactly what Jesus said will happen in Matthew 24:6-14 including the martyrs of the 5 Th Seal...whose numbers is cited to grown since Stephen to became a large crowd WEARING WHITE ROBES to large to number ...

Do you think the rider on the pale(green) (G1555) horse is Christ?

Rev 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.
Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

G5515
χλωρός
chlōros
khlo-ros'
From the same as G5514; greenish, that is, verdant, dun-colored: - green, pale.
Total KJV occurrences: 4

.
 
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keras

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The only reason I bother here, is because there are many who just read these posts and I don't like to see false theories unchallenged.
Dougggg, you insistence that the first Four Seals must be consecutive, is patently absurd. They have been opened 2000 years ago and simple research shows: wars, famines, plagues as continuous in at least some part of the world, since then.
BaB, if you want to say the Sixth Seal has already happened, then provide historical proof of the cosmic and earthly events, as described.
Do you think the rider on the pale(green) (G1555) horse is Christ?
No, that is a ridiculous idea.
 
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Riberra

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Do you think the rider on the pale(green) (G1555) horse is Christ?

Rev 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him.

G5515
χλωρός
chlōros
khlo-ros'
From the same as G5514; greenish, that is, verdant, dun-colored: - green, pale.
Total KJV occurrences: 4

.
The Four Riders on horses ARE DIFFERENT RIDERS ...EACH CARRYING THEIR SPECIFIC SET OF ACTIONS SINCE JESUS HAVE ASCENDED TO HEAVEN IN THE FIRST CENTURY.

-The Rider of the White Horse Represent Jesus and the Gospel being preached upon[Conquering] the whole Earth..[Matthew 24:14]

-The Rider of the Red Horse is carrying WARS .[Matthew 24:6]

-The Rider of the Black horse is carrying FAMINES. [Matthew 24:7]

_The RIDER OF THE PALE HORSE IS CARRYING SOMETHING AFFECTING 1/4 of the surface of the Earth by WAR ... FAMINES ....Look at a World Map and WW1 and WW2 have affected 1/4 of the surface of the Earth ..look at the superficy of the European Continent including Russia....that is roughtly 1/4 of the habitable Earth's surface.

The 5 TH seal is about the Christians MARTYRS Since Stephen and the apostles ...to whom it was said that their numbers will grown...to became a large group -wearing white robes- to large to number.
 
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Douggg

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Your own interpretation of the first Five Seals that you want to fit with your interpretation that the Rider of the white Horse is the Antichrist...
I have proved with Scripture in Post 1552 that the first 5 seal represent exactly what Jesus said will happen in Matthew 24:6-14 including the martyrs of the 5 Th Seal...whose numbers is cited to grown since Stephen to became a large crowd WEARING WHITE ROBES to large to number ...
The person is the Antichrist for the initial years of the 7 years. He eventually is no long the Antichrist, but will have become the beast.

You can't prove any of the seals fulfilled, it is impossible, because it is not factual that history has followed the specific order of the seals - but has bounced around.
 
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Douggg

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Dougggg, you insistence that the first Four Seals must be consecutive, is patently absurd. They have been opened 2000 years ago and simple research shows: wars, famines, plagues as continuous in at least some part of the world, since then.
The order of the seals is just as the riders appear. The order shows the deterioration of the world as it plunges deeper and deeper into the 7 years - and if not for Jesus returning to put a stop to it, no flesh would survive.
 
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BABerean2

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The Four Riders on horses ARE DIFFERENT RIDERS ...EACH CARRYING THEIR SPECIFIC SET OF ACTIONS SINCE JESUS HAVE ASCENDED TO HEAVEN IN THE FIRST CENTURY.

-The Rider of the White Horse Represent Jesus and the Gospel being preached upon[Conquering] the whole Earth..[Matthew 24:14]

-The Rider of the Red Horse is carrying WARS .[Matthew 24:6]

-The Rider of the Black horse is carrying FAMINES. [Matthew 24:7]

_The RIDER OF THE PALE HORSE IS CARRYING SOMETHING AFFECTING 1/4 of the surface of the Earth by WAR ... FAMINES ....Look at a World Map and WW1 and WW2 have affected 1/4 of the surface of the Earth ..look at the superficy of the European Continent including Russia....that is roughtly 1/4 of the habitable Earth's surface.

The 5 TH seal is about the Christians MARTYRS Since Stephen and the apostles ...to whom it was said that their numbers will grown...to became a large group -wearing white robes- to large to number.

Why did you skip the 6th seal?
Are you trying to ignore it?

.
 
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