Should I tell my kids that Jesus is God?

Lonnie Owens said:

Teaching the trinity is as easy as anything else as long as you and God are on the same page... it’s right there in the Bible and in the scrolls.. and if the churches would actually teach the Message then there would be no need to have discussions like this...

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If it were easy we wouldn't have Arianism in the 21st century Church. But it is a Mystery, not in the Bible, but derived from the way Christ spoke of himself and his relationship within the Godhead. But like all spiritual verities, it does not lend itself to our mundane language. The result of which is to walk a knife edge with polytheism on one side and the abandonment of the doctrine on the other.

Lonnie Owens said:

No the Foundation of Christianity is the Belief in God (to be Christ like) hence Jesus was sent to teach us how we are to worship God and over and over again he has stated that there is none greater than God The Father...

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Belief in God is foundational to a basic monotheistic framework--Jews, Muslims, Bahais, and many others believe in God. St. James says even the devils believe in God, and they tremble.

Belief in God is not the foundation of Christianity. The foundation of Christianity is Jesus Christ.

You can have belief in God with many different religions out there, and you can look to any number of sacred texts of different religions which talk about how to live a God-fearing way of life--on how to act virtuous and to avoid doing wrong.

Christianity isn't unique in that. Christianity isn't Christianity because we say people should believe in God, or because we have a set of sacred texts that tell us how to behave like somewhat decent human beings. Christianity isn't unique because we have a highly unique moral code, the Great Commandment comes from the Torah, and even the Lord's teaching "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" is nearly identical to the saying of the Jewish Sage Hillel the Elder who said, "What is hateful to you, do not do to others. This is the whole of the Torah, the rest is commentary."

No, what is unique about Christianity is our confession that Jesus is the Christ and the Son of God; He is the very Word of God made flesh, He is the One by whom we can know God, behold God. For the Son is the very image of the Father's Hypostasis, He is the image of the invisible God. He is the Son who can show us the Father.

We don't have a new Moses or a new Elijah. We do not have another prophet, sage, guru, or seer. We have Jesus Christ, the Son of God.

The Bible isn't God's Revelation. Jesus Christ is God's Revelation. The whole point of the Bible is Jesus.

-CryptoLutheran

Lonnie Owens said:

no one can follow them perfectly and I never said I did so please don’t assume anything... God has my Six!

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You're right, no one can follow them perfectly and *that* is exactly the reason why God came to earth in the flesh so that *he* could pay the penalty for our sin *because* we cannot be perfect on our own. Jesus wasn't here just to give us a bunch of teachings for us to follow. He came for our atonement.

If he were only human and not God, he couldn't accomplish it because he would be in the same sinful state as the rest of us and therefore not worthy as a sacrifice. If he were only God and not human, he couldn't accomplish it because it is humanity that must pay the price for sin. Therefore, the only worthy sacrifice is someone who is *both* fully God *and* fully human.

Otherwise, we are all lost because the penalty of sin is death and no one would have been worthy of paying it.

But *worthy* is the Lamb who was slain and that's something to rejoice in!

But the Enemy wants nothing more but to deceive us into thinking we can be saved through our own works, that we can just believe that Jesus was just some good guy who did a lot of good things and taught a lot of good stuff and if we just imitate that the best we can, then we are fine.

That is NOT the truth and if you have pastors or disembodied voices in the night or whatever telling you anything besides the gospel of Jesus the Christ, the Messiah, the Annointed One, then you are being deceived and they are lying to you, and I don't want to sugarcoat it (calling it "Arian Christianity" or whatever) just to be "nice" because understanding who Jesus is and why he died on the cross and his resurrection and accepting him as both Lord and Savior is eternally important.

ooops...... Jesus said it is required.....

SUCCESS ! (perfect means as good as can be - not spotlessly ---- like being a "perfect football team player - doing all the plays right --- a lot of football players are 'perfect' football players , at least some days! .....
so also, if someone does what Jesus says, trusting the Father , they are 'perfect', as jesus means in Scripture -
don't get dismayed thinking the false idea that perfect means without making a mistake or without any sin ever )

Again, Jesus said "WHO is my family?" WHOEVER hears the word of God and does it, they are MY family. That includes all Ekklesia in the NT who did what He said,
and ever since then - PERFECT !

bekkilyn said:

You're right, no one can follow them perfectly

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eucatastrophe said:

No, of course not. That ignores the unbridgeable gap in teachings between Islam and even heretical Christianity. And I said more tactful, not more honest.

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But calling it "Arian Christianity" would be an outright lie, tactful or otherwise, because "Christianity" has to include Jesus the Christ, not just Jesus the teacher.

Sadly, you will find many, if not most church goers are Arian without even knowing what it means or what difference it makes.

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Which would mean it is all the more important to proclaim the real gospel a thousand by ten thousand times if necessary.

yeshuaslavejeff said:

ooops...... Jesus said it is required.....

SUCCESS ! (perfect means as good as can be - not spotlessly ---- like being a "perfect football team player - doing all the plays right --- a lot of football players are 'perfect' football players , at least some days! .....
so also, if someone does what Jesus says, trusting the Father , they are 'perfect', as jesus means in Scripture -
don't get dismayed thinking the false idea that perfect means without making a mistake or without any sin ever )

Again, Jesus said "WHO is my family?" WHOEVER hears the word of God and does it, they are MY family. That includes all Ekklesia in the NT who did what He said,
and ever since then - PERFECT !

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This is only true if Jesus is God and you have accepted him as Lord and Savior and then you are made perfect through him and his blood. If all you are doing is following the law through your own efforts, then it can never be perfect enough since there is no atonement and you cannot forgive yourself of your transgressions of the law.

.

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DamianWarS said:

I appreciate your honesty and sincere reading of the biblical text that do not call Jesus God in such plain language as years of refined doctrines would have us believe. It is true that we lean on the doctrines of the church and tend to value them more than we do the language of the bible. I believe in the Trinity and believe the Word of John 1:1 is Jesus and believe Jesus is God. I am not trying to discourage your "thinking out loud" but I'm afraid this is not the right place in the form to go down those paths.'

However you do bring up good points which I think grasps the spirit of the OP which is since the language of the bible, specifically that of Jesus, does not use words like "God the Son" should we be teaching our children this extra-biblical language of a doctrinal perspective of God? If my son, who is 3, asks me who Jesus is, is my responsibly to tell him Jesus is God or should I instead tell him who Jesus is using the language of Jesus and let the Holy Spirit guide is understanding of who Jesus is as he matures in Christ?

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Good Morning.... if you tell him Jesus is God then you would be giving him the same traditions that we were taught. Jesus was a good man and a devoted Son of God and and our teacher because even he has said he was not sent here to condem the world but that through him might be saved.

bekkilyn said:

But calling it "Arian Christianity" would be an outright lie, tactful or otherwise, because "Christianity" has to include Jesus the Christ, not just Jesus the teacher.



Which would mean it is all the more important to proclaim the real gospel a thousand by ten thousand times if necessary.

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It is that thing to do with honey and vinegar...and flies. Is your goal to be "right" on theology or is it to help others to come to the truth? If you confront someone with "you are not a Christian" after years of considering themselves as such, you will get, understandably, a defensive reaction. They will double down in their errors and pull out Scripture to "prove" it! It is better to examine how they came to their beliefs and build on that to show where error crept in. And face it, the churches are at fault here, because if they had proclaimed the Divinity of Christ properly we wouldn't have error of this kind to deal with.

eucatastrophe said:

It is that thing to do with honey and vinegar...and flies. Is your goal to be "right" on theology or is it to help others to come to the truth? If you confront someone with "you are not a Christian" after years of considering themselves as such, you will get, understandably, a defensive reaction. They will double down in their errors and pull out Scripture to "prove" it! It is better to examine how they came to their beliefs and build on that to show where error crept in. And face it, the churches are at fault here, because if they had proclaimed the Divinity of Christ properly we wouldn't have error of this kind to deal with.

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Ur I am not getting defensive at all... lol I’m sorry if that was the way it was perceived.. for many years I believed the exact same thing as all other Christians... So after everything that happens yest, for which I apologize, when I got home I pulled out the Bible and started rereading it and can see where everyone,including my past self, would believe that Jesus was God but when I was reading the Bible I felt great comfort in what was shown to me..
Also to be a Christian is to be Christ like and this comes from going to serval different churches and denominations who all had the exact same beliefs that Jesus was God and as a youth I had asked my preachers/ministers what it meant to be a Christian and everyone of them said “to be Christ like, follow his teachings to get closer to God.” So when God shows me the errors of my ways I am being told I am not a Christian for doing exactly what I was taught.
Here is another verse for everyone who wants to call me not a Christian.
Matthew 7:22,23 “ 22 Many will say to me in that day,Lord,Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? And in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then I will profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that do iniquity.”

.

eucatastrophe said:

It is that thing to do with honey and vinegar...and flies. Is your goal to be "right" on theology or is it to help others to come to the truth? If you confront someone with "you are not a Christian" after years of considering themselves as such, you will get, understandably, a defensive reaction. They will double down in their errors and pull out Scripture to "prove" it! It is better to examine how they came to their beliefs and build on that to show where error crept in. And face it, the churches are at fault here, because if they had proclaimed the Divinity of Christ properly we wouldn't have error of this kind to deal with.

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How do you help others come to the truth if you lie about it for the sake of being diplomatic? We're commissioned to proclaim the gospel of Jesus the *Christ*, not Jesus the teacher, or Jesus the good guy who said a lot of good things on a mountain somewhere. If you've taken the "Christ" out of Christian, then what is left? It's not Christianity. There are only so many "nice" ways of putting it without serious compromise of essential Christian doctrine.

Arianism isn't considered to be Christianity by the standards of this forum if you take a look at the forum statement of faith in how Christianity is defined on CF, so I'm not really stating anything new here.

Excerpt from Christian Forum statement of faith:
Faith groups and individuals that deny the full, eternal deity of Jesus Christ or His incarnation whereby He, as God, took on human flesh (becoming fully God and fully man in one person), are considered non-Christians at CF. Posts that deny the full, eternal deity of Jesus Christ or His incarnation are considered non-Christian theology and are not allowed in "Christians Only" forums. Discussions in all "Christians Only" forums must be in alignment with Trinitarian beliefs.

bekkilyn said:

How do you help others come to the truth if you lie about it for the sake of being diplomatic? We're commissioned to proclaim the gospel of Jesus the *Christ*, not Jesus the teacher, or Jesus the good guy who said a lot of good things on a mountain somewhere. If you've taken the "Christ" out of Christian, then what is left? It's not Christianity. There are only so many "nice" ways of putting it without serious compromise of essential Christian doctrine.

Arianism isn't considered to be Christianity by the standards of this forum if you take a look at the forum statement of faith in how Christianity is defined on CF, so I'm not really stating anything new here.

Excerpt from Christian Forum statement of faith:
Faith groups and individuals that deny the full, eternal deity of Jesus Christ or His incarnation whereby He, as God, took on human flesh (becoming fully God and fully man in one person), are considered non-Christians at CF. Posts that deny the full, eternal deity of Jesus Christ or His incarnation are considered non-Christian theology and are not allowed in "Christians Only" forums. Discussions in all "Christians Only" forums must be in alignment with Trinitarian beliefs.

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I see the problem. Sometimes it is better to explain than to proclaim. Don't throw Church doctrine at someone and say "Out, thou heathen"! LOL! Instead talk to them and explain how the doctrine came to be and why it matters. I am not talking about people who have made Jesus after their own image...a leftist revolutionary or a peacenik who got beat up and killed for telling people to be kind to each other. I am talking about a sizable portion of church goers who don't understand the nature of Christ's Divinity. So many hang on the formula "Son of God" and don't know that Jesus is the Son of the Trinity, coequal and co-eternal with the Father. But what does Son of God mean in a real context? We are past the fantasy of Zeus and Hercules, or Odin and Thor. That is a good place to begin explaining the Mystery of the Trinity. Just remember the faith that saves is not in understanding the cosmic nature of Christ, but in believing what he has done for you on the Cross. We know intellectually that only God has the power to forgive sin and to speak with authority, as Jesus did. That is another good place to start in revealing Christs Divinity.

eucatastrophe said:

I see the problem. Sometimes it is better to explain than to proclaim. Don't throw Church doctrine at someone and say "Out, thou heathen"! LOL! Instead talk to them and explain how the doctrine came to be and why it matters. I am not talking about people who have made Jesus after their own image...a leftist revolutionary or a peacenik who got beat up and killed for telling people to be kind to each other. I am talking about a sizable portion of church goers who don't understand the nature of Christ's Divinity. So many hang on the formula "Son of God" and don't know that Jesus is the Son of the Trinity, coequal and co-eternal with the Father. But what does Son of God mean in a real context? We are past the fantasy of Zeus and Hercules, or Odin and Thor. That is a good place to begin explaining the Mystery of the Trinity. Just remember the faith that saves is not in understanding the cosmic nature of Christ, but in believing what he has done for you on the Cross. We know intellectually that only God has the power to forgive sin and to speak with authority, as Jesus did. That is another good place to start in revealing Christs Divinity.

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And sometimes we just have to try different things as we are led and see what sticks. We can do our parts in either proclaiming or explaining or both, but it's really the work of the Holy Spirit that convicts someone of the truth of the gospel.