Why do People Fight so hard for Their Own Free Will ?

yeshuaslavejeff said:

When did Yahweh or Jesus EVER say such a thing ?
It seems to go entirely opposed to His Word.

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Such a thing as he wants us to find good cheer, he wants us to Delight in the Gospel, To me the ultimate happiness would come from KNOWING that Christ over came the world.

Matthew 22:29 - King James Bible
Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

Try nearly all of the bible, try all of psalms 37 .

John 16:33 King James Version (KJV)

33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

He NEVER says He wants us to find happiness on our own, ever, no, never.

That was what you posted, and I asked about:

cfyahoo08 said:

Our choices matter to God also, he wants us to find happiness on our own.

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yeshuaslavejeff said:

When did Yahweh or Jesus EVER say such a thing ?
It seems to go entirely opposed to His Word.

Click to expand...

cfyahoo08 said:

Such a thing as he wants us to find good cheer, he wants us to Delight in the Gospel, To me the ultimate happiness would come from KNOWING that Christ over came the world.

Click to expand...

yeshuaslavejeff said:

He NEVER says He wants us to find happiness on our own, ever, no, never.

That was what you posted, and I asked about:

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Philippians 2:12 - King James Bible
Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling

cfyahoo08 said:

Philippians 2:12 - King James Bible
Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling

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Why do you keep posting Scripture that does not help you and does not answer the question you were asked, repeatedly ?

yeshuaslavejeff said:

Why do you keep posting Scripture that does not help you and does not answer the question you were asked, repeatedly ?

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Its better to post the word of God than 1/2 truths. I am sharing what the Bible itself says. I am sorry if you disagree with it.

I agree 100% with God's Word.

Your posts keep indicating you don't. And your answers even using God's Word (in vain? HOPE NOT) do not answer the questions I asked you.

Be sorry, be terrified, lest anyone should ......
Hebrews 4 CJB;NIV - Therefore, let us be terrified of the - Bible Gateway
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews+4&version...
Therefore, let us be terrified of the possibility that, even though the promise of entering his rest remains, any one of you might be judged to have FALLEN SHORT OF IT .....

cfyahoo08 said:

Its better to post the word of God than 1/2 truths. I am sharing what the Bible itself says. I am sorry if you disagree with it.

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yeshuaslavejeff said:

I agree 100% with God's Word.

Your posts keep indicating you don't. And your answers even using God's Word (in vain? HOPE NOT) do not answer the questions I asked you.

Be sorry, be terrified, lest anyone should ......
Hebrews 4 CJB;NIV - Therefore, let us be terrified of the - Bible Gateway
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews+4&version...
Therefore, let us be terrified of the possibility that, even though the promise of entering his rest remains, any one of you might be judged to have FALLEN SHORT OF IT .....

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So when YOU use the bible YOU use it the right way, but when I use it, I use it the WRONG way ? Is that what your trying to say ?

Look at your answer (in any language, in any translation) :

cfyahoo08 said:

Philippians 2:12 - King James Bible
Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling

Click to expand...

As if defending your post:

cfyahoo08 said:

Our choices matter to God also, he wants us to find happiness on our own.

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(1) No one can save themselves. (or do you think you can?)
(2) "Happiness" is not "fear and trembling" (or do you think it is?)
(3) Do you know the difference
between joy, blessing, righteousness and salvation(all true spiritually for those in Christ Jesus)
vs happiness (carnal, fleshly, temporal, "human" emotion )
(no, not 'semantically', but as Yahweh Says in His Word) -- i.e. there's no similarity between human happiness (shallow, temporary, worldly/ carnal) AND the joy of salvation in Christ Jesus (deep, abiding , permanent, spiritual)

And likewise your other faulty answers using Scripture quotes of good, spiritual truth that does not at all correctly fit nor answer the preceding post or question asked ,
neither according to standard english usage, nor according to Biblical usage.
i.e. non-sequitur, one after another..... (we can go thru any or all of them this way if you are willing, to show clearly for you and everyone) ....

cfyahoo08 said:

So when YOU use the bible YOU use it the right way, but when I use it, I use it the WRONG way ? Is that what your trying to say ?

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You choose. You can bring all things under subjection to Jesus as He says,
or you can refuse to, as He will not force you.
Your will ? Your desires ? Your wants ? Your goals ? Your hopes ? Your knowledge ? Your methods ? Your dreams ?
You choose whether to be a living sacrifice useful to Jesus, or not to be by rebelling against God and His Word . (if you are willing, and trust the Father to accomplish this, then it is already done - accomplished by the Father as His Word Says, and with your willingness, freely choosing to obey Him in all things)

John tower said:

Ephesians 1(11): ALL THINGS after " HIS " will means it is impossible for our own will because all things are already after his will ; so clear !! What part of ALL THINGS AFTER HIS WILL do you not understand ? Please tell me .

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yeshuaslavejeff said:

Look at your answer (in any language, in any translation) :

As if defending your post:

(1) No one can save themselves. (or do you think you can?)
(2) "Happiness" is not "fear and trembling" (or do you think it is?)
(3) Do you know the difference
between joy, blessing, righteousness and salvation(all true spiritually for those in Christ Jesus)
vs happiness (carnal, fleshly, temporal, "human" emotion )
(no, not 'semantically', but as Yahweh Says in His Word) -- i.e. there's no similarity between human happiness (shallow, temporary, worldly/ carnal) AND the joy of salvation in Christ Jesus (deep, abiding , permanent, spiritual)

And likewise your other faulty answers using Scripture quotes of good, spiritual truth that does not at all correctly fit nor answer the preceding post or question asked ,
neither according to standard english usage, nor according to Biblical usage.
i.e. non-sequitur, one after another..... (we can go thru any or all of them this way if you are willing, to show clearly for you and everyone) ....

Click to expand...

2 Timothy 3:5- King James Bible
Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

Agape love ? is that what your trying to say ? If you LOVE someone you show that love and it is reciprocated .

Some see God as someone that is oppressive and controlling our every move and someone to be scared of (Feared) . If someone wants to live there life like that, they are welcome to, its not something I would like to do. I choose to know that God Loves us, he knows us and wants us to find happiness, he wants us to learn to love him NOT because he forced it or because he demands it but because we CHOOSE him over evil. I choose to be a spiritual optimist

King James Bible - 1 John 4:19
We love him, because he first loved us.

John tower said:

Ephesians 1(11): ALL THINGS after " HIS " will means it is impossible for our own will because all things are already after his will

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What do you mean by "impossible for our own will"?

You mean that we can't choose?
So why, in Scripture, did Joshua say to the Israelites, "Choose this day who you will serve", Joshua 24:15, 22? Why did Elijah tell the Israelites to choose between God and Baal, 1 Kings 18:21?
How was Adam able to choose to disobey God?
Why did Cain choose to murder Abel?
Why did Abraham tell Lot to choose which way to go when they separated - "if you choose the left, I'll take the right", Genesis 13:8-11?

God chooses, and as we are made in his image, we too have the ability to choose.
You've chosen to post on this forum. I, sometimes, choose to answer your posts. You chose where to live, what church to go to, what job to have etc. Yes, I'm sure you prayed and asked for guidance, but nobody forced, or forces, you to do do any of the things that you do.
I will get dressed in a few minutes. No outfit is going to fly out of my wardrobe and hit me in the face; I will decide what I am going to wear. Apart from a commitment this evening, there is nothing I need to do today. If I lay on my bed and did nothing until someone forced me to move, I'd spend all day lying on my bed.

God gave us a will. If he hadn't, Jesus wouldn't have told us to love him with our will.
Jesus never forced anyone to do anything.

Strong in Him said:

Not at all.
God is God. He knows all our choices, he knows the consequences of those choices, he knows what we will do and how we will live our lives.
He knew that I would sit at my laptop this morning and answer this post. I didn't; I didn't know you'd written it, and I might have read it, thought, "I can't be bothered" and done something else. I could have done - and if I had, the Lord would have known that too.

Don't ask me how - he is God. He is infinite, I have a finite mind; He is eternal, I am not; He knows all things, I have limited knowledge. If this were not so, if I knew something and God didn't; he wouldn't be God.
But just because I don't understand it, doesn't mean that it isn't so.

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@MoneyGuy Please ignore this reply. I misread your post and thought you were saying that God does not give us free will.

John tower said:

I really don't understand the mindset of those who continually fight for their own Free Will ! Is there something wrong with God being in absolute control of all things , including ourselves ? Is there something wrong with being just clay in God's hands ? Do we think we could do a better job then God ? Are we afraid that God is going to make a bunch of mistakes if he is in total control and so we want our own free will to correct these mistakes , and you know , help God out a little bit ? Is this why we fight so hard for our own free will ? Well obviously we know that we could not do a better job then God ! So is it just a pride thing : We don't want to be just clay : We want to do it ourselves ! Given the fact that nobody can do a better job then God : Why do people continue to fight so hard for their own free will ? Makes absolutely no sense ! I am so happy just being clay in the great master potters hands : I have no desire at all presently for my own free will because I know that I could never do a better job then God !!! C O M M E N T S !

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I'm curious about examples you could give on this. Personally I don't have an issue with it and would love for God to clearly show me right choices in some areas of my life that I struggle in - I've asked but He keeps leaving a lot of it up to me! On the other hand we are rebellious by nature. God is the only one who I don't have an issue with when it comes to 'authority', but I seem to struggle when it comes to human authority a bit.

He doesn't really leave it up to "me"/ "you", except to be willing to follow Jesus, as Jesus lamented over Jerusalem "I would have gathered your children under by tzitzits and protected and nurtured them, but you would not" (were not willing), so they were lost, having left Jesus (or not been willing to believe Him and to do as He Wants) .....

It is 'easy' as Jesus says "My commands are NOT burdensome",
but we were all raised with (as you noted) rebelliousness against God, instead of trusting and relying on Him.

God is the Only One "not to have and issue with" as "all men are liars" ! and God and Jesus are 100% faithful and true forever, always.

Note that the one you replied to may have many 'examples' and such, just like other religions do also, and various factions of Christianity too,
but those will not guide you in truth or faith or obedience in union with Jesus.

JCFantasy23 said:

I'm curious about examples you could give on this. Personally I don't have an issue with it and would love for God to clearly show me right choices in some areas of my life that I struggle in - I've asked but He keeps leaving a lot of it up to me! On the other hand we are rebellious by nature. God is the only one who I don't have an issue with when it comes to 'authority', but I seem to struggle when it comes to human authority a bit.

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John tower said:

Read the next verse Phil 2(13), Jer 10(23)

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Why ? I don't usually try to untangle the awkward posting cut / paste/ numbers or long unformatted paragraphs that don't render well, and that to me don't make sense.
I am curious if this is like some cultural thing , just a different way of 'writing' that is normal there, but doesn't seem very useful here ?