What is the purpose of endlessly singing the same lyric or phrase?

Karin12414 · Jul 26, 2018

Dorothy Mae said:
Didn’t say that as I don’t know them all. But if a person doesn’t see how narcissistic a song is, they won’t know the difference. Sometimes parts of a song are good and parts aweful.
How we feel is not the goal in worship of God. Oh and Hindus have the concept of “one with God.” They feel love and peace and etc when they’re chanting. Christians are never one with God. We are too unalike.

If your mind and heart are full of singing about you and your feelings and what you got out of God, it’s not worship of God. It’s worship of feelings and the self.
If God doesn’t think so, it’s not. Some songs Christians sing are deeply insulting to the character of God.

If a woman made her family a dinner of old dry bread and brackish water, they won’t agree that if she thought she was making something nice for them then it is nice for them.

If offspring stood up at an event to praise their retiring father and talked solely about all the things he bought them and how they felt being with him and how he thought only of them all the time, I doubt he would leave feeling loved or honored. The audience would see them as very selfish and narcissistic offspring, rightly so. That’s often modern “worship” today.

I admit that not ALL songs are great, but the topic is talking about songs that repeat lyrics, I can think of one example where the song repeats the words but is still beautiful.

faroukfarouk · Jul 26, 2018

Karin12414 said:
I admit that not ALL songs are great, but the topic is talking about songs that repeat lyrics, I can think of one example where the song repeats the words but is still beautiful.

By Darlene Z... something, maybe?

Karin12414 · Jul 26, 2018

faroukfarouk said:
By Darlene Z... something, maybe?

I'm not sure what you mean lol

faroukfarouk · Jul 26, 2018

Karin12414 said:
I'm not sure what you mean lol

Sorry I thought that was the name of one of the main Hillsong singers, that's all. (Name spelt in a funny way with a Z......)

Karin12414 · Jul 26, 2018

Oh lol I'm not familiar with their individual names, sorry

faroukfarouk · Jul 26, 2018

Karin12414 said:
Oh lol I'm not familiar with their individual names, sorry

This is who I was thinking of: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darlene_Zschech

drjean · Jul 26, 2018

"If you want to strengthen an idea or a belief, repeat it more and more; talk about it to everybody, the more you talk about it, the stronger you will believe in it."

"Definition of mesmerism
1 : hypnotic induction held to involve animal magnetism; broadly : hypnotism"

Praise and worship choruses (choruses not hymns)... might have their place if the wording is proper.... but we need sacred songs, not ditties.

Something that repeats as per your example... we're on our knees... does not worship God, nor add to the religious mind-set experience...it's just repetition to mesmerize the mind and otherwise wash it from all other thoughts... choruses are generally just "feel good" ditties that make ONE person, individually, feel good while with others also feeling good about themselves in a collective experience.

If a group sings over and over again about how 'we're on their knees' then eventually they will believe that that is what they are physically doing before God while singing their chorus!

"
Sacred song is one of the most social aspects of religious practice. But it is also an intimate embodied experience. The singer draws meaning from her or his core being: She feels the sound being produced as she hears it.

Creating musical tone in one’s chest and throat provides sensuous pleasure, amplified by what sociologist Emile Durkheim referred to as “collective effervescence” – the collective energy generated when groups come together in a shared purpose. This concept has been explored extensively by sociologist Randall Collins in his work on interaction ritual chains.
"

Songs of praise and worship are called hymns (or used to be, but what contemporary outside of music study would know this? I mean, the ones I've met didn't even know the word "sanctuary" for the worship "auditorium". )

Hymns are generally songs sung TO God for HIS glory and to worship HIM.... they often include good doctrinal passages and phrases, right out of God's Word. And in the drawing from God's Word, they soothe the soul or light it on fire, according to the Holy Spirit's response within us. Just as the spoken Hebrew language has a melodic tone and appeases God, hymns of true praise to glorify God and not the singer, pleases God.

Those who truly wish to worship God and sing praises to Him need to be mindful of the words they are putting into their brain over and over and over. Just whom is it edifying???

IMO today's contemporary choruses must sound as ridiculous to God (if He determines things that way) as saying in a prayer, "WE PRAY..." Praying is what you are doing... get on with the praise, and petition when speaking to God HE knows you are praying! Singing the same jargon over and over again such as (again) We're on our knees, has no benefit imo... just fall on your knees and get about truly worshipping GOD! Lesson over. :preach:

Dorothy Mae · Jul 26, 2018

Karin12414 said:
I admit that not ALL songs are great, but the topic is talking about songs that repeat lyrics, I can think of one example where the song repeats the words but is still beautiful.

We sing that at church too. And you are right, the thread is about repetition, not narcissistic songs.

Since you mention it, I think I wouldn’t mind Hallelujah being repeated as much as songs that are addressing us. This song requires the congregation to sing they are on their knees while standing or sitting. There are songs that require them to sing they surrender (again) which they obviously don’t having surrendered last week and the week before. Songs that actually praise God are quite rare.

Dorothy Mae · Jul 27, 2018

I would challenge those who want to worship God and not merely have an experience to notice all the times the words “I, me, and my” appear in songs and how seldom “you and your” appear. It’s supposed to be directed towards someone else but focuses primarily on the singer as evidenced by the singing of the self so much. Back to topic.

“Paisios” · Jul 27, 2018

Dorothy Mae said:
I would challenge those who want to worship God and not merely have an experience to notice all the times the words “I, me, and my appear in songs” and how seldom “you and your” appear. It’s supposed to be directed towards someone else but focuses primarily on the singer as evidenced by the singing of the self so much. Back to topic.

I actually had a discussion with my youth group on this very topic about a year ago. It was interesting to see how many of my youth had never considered this.

Karin12414 · Jul 27, 2018

Shoetoyou said:
I actually had a discussion with my youth group on this very topic about a year ago. It was interesting to see how many of my youth had never considered this.

Were they able to come up with anything?

“Paisios” · Jul 27, 2018

Karin12414 said:
Were they able to come up with anything?

We went through a lot of Christian songs and their lyrics, and came to the conclusion that many were indeed not worship songs, though they could still be Christian and have value. They felt (and I agreed) that the focus of a worship song had to be the Lord God, not ourselves or our relationship (at least directly) with Him.

Karin12414 · Jul 27, 2018

Shoetoyou said:
We went through a lot of Christian songs and their lyrics, and came to the conclusion that many were indeed not worship songs, though they could still be Christian and have value. They felt (and I agreed) that the focus of a worship song had to be the Lord God, not ourselves or our relationship (at least directly) with Him.

Hmm. So a song that doesn't say anything about anyone but God, Jesus and/or the Spirit is the goal? Can't even be a "testimonial" type song?

Loren T. · Jul 27, 2018

Quite a few of the old hymns repeat the same chorus multiple times. I understand the concern about songs that only make much of God in relation to us. After all, God does not need us, he lives in perfect unity within the trinity. But, then I wonder how we can not praise God for what he has done for us, specifically. At the end of the day, what matters is the attitude of your heart and what you mean when you sing to God, not how many times you repeat a phrase.

“Paisios” · Jul 27, 2018

Karin12414 said:
Hmm. So a song that doesn't say anything about anyone but God, Jesus and/or the Spirit is the goal? Can't even be a "testimonial" type song?

No, that is not what I said nor meant. I would say it is not worship, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t have value or shouldn’t be sung. There can be more than one goal, all with the overreaching goal of giving glory to God, and songs of testimony are certainly appropriate for that purpose.

But it seems to me that we should try to deny ourselves, and focus more on God.

(But what do I know? I’m an uneducated lay youth group leader, not far advanced in my walk with Christ. Take my opinions for what they’re worth - not much - and look to Scripture and wiser minds than mine).

Karin12414 · Jul 27, 2018

Shoetoyou said:
No, that is not what I said nor meant. I would say it is not worship, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t have value or shouldn’t be sung. There can be more than one goal, all with the overreaching goal of giving glory to God, and songs of testimony are certainly appropriate for that purpose.

But it seems to me that we should try to deny ourselves, and focus more on God.

(But what do I know? I’m an uneducated lay youth group leader, not far advanced in my walk with Christ. Take my opinions for what they’re worth - not much - and look to Scripture and wiser minds than mine).

I apologize, I didn't mean my post to sound confrontational or conradicting, I was genuinely just trying to think about a song that fell under that and wanted to ask what the "rules" had to be lol

“Paisios” · Jul 27, 2018

Karin12414 said:
I apologize, I didn't mean my post to sound confrontational or conradicting, I was genuinely just trying to think about a song that fell under that and wanted to ask what the "rules" had to be lol

No apology necessary. I took no offense, and apologize in return for leading you to believe that I did (and when I am wrong, I am pleased for those wiser than myself to contradict and correct me). I don’t pretend to know the “rules” (except to love the Lord our God and love our neighbors, and I don’t follow those very well), so am working through things myself. I’m exploring things as are you.

Karin12414 · Jul 27, 2018

Shoetoyou said:
No apology necessary. I took no offense, and apologize in return for leading you to believe that I did (and when I am wrong, I am pleased for those wiser than myself to contradict and correct me). I don’t pretend to know the “rules” (except to love the Lord our God and love our neighbors, and I don’t follow those very well), so am working through things myself. I’m exploring things as are you.

Yeah, it is a constant journey for sure

But I have always considered the worship songs we sing to be sort of like a "testimonial/praise report" type thing to glorify His works, if that makes sense.

The best example I can think of is Mandisa and her song "Unfinished". She wrote her song "Over comer" to a friend of hers hat was battling cancer and having doubts in the Lord. She wanted to encourage her that God was giving her the strength to fight. Her friend was making good progress and staying strong, but she eventually went home to be with the Lord. It pushed Mandisa into a deep depression and she stopped doing music for a while.

She finally reached a point of moving on and was compelled to write "Unfinished". It really changes the tone of the song when you know the story behind it.

While she is singing about herself, she is singing about what God is doing in her and encouraging others to believe that He is working in them as well. When we write music, we are writing about our experiences with the topic of the song. It just makes it more personal and allows people to relate and connect.

At least that is my current thinking on the matter.

Dorothy Mae · Jul 27, 2018

Karin12414 said:
Hmm. So a song that doesn't say anything about anyone but God, Jesus and/or the Spirit is the goal? Can't even be a "testimonial" type song?

Then it’s not a worship song.

To find worship songs, one needs to probably go back a few decades. They exist. We sang them. Many were scripture put to music.

Dorothy Mae · Jul 27, 2018

Loren T. said:
Quite a few of the old hymns repeat the same chorus multiple times. I understand the concern about songs that only make much of God in relation to us. After all, God does not need us, he lives in perfect unity within the trinity. But, then I wonder how we can not praise God for what he has done for us, specifically. At the end of the day, what matters is the attitude of your heart and what you mean when you sing to God, not how many times you repeat a phrase.

It must matter to God cause Jesus said that some think they will be heard for their repetition of words although, come to think of it, these are probably a notch above those who don’t even care if they’re heard, assume every word they sing is heard or it doesn’t matter what they say. At least they want God to hear.

The problem with assuming the attitude of heart is all that matters has two hitches. One, attitude of heart was still not ok to God for those who thought they were doing God a service they thought acceptable and two, the heart is deceitful. Very many people fool themselves as to their attitude of heart. They, for example, say they love worship but really love singing about themselves and how they feel or what they got. This is worship of singing about the self for the self. It can be delightful and lifts the spirits but God is not pleased and is not worshipped.

Our true worship will never rise higher than our words. Never.

What is the purpose of endlessly singing the same lyric or phrase?

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