Breath of Life=Holy Spirit?

joshua 1 9 · Jul 25, 2018

Serving Zion said:
St Peter wrote of his understanding of the flood in a time that was (presumably) before science had established that the flood was localised - so I have asked you whether you think that St Peter's understanding of the scripture was that the flood was localised or global. This is of high importance in the matter, because at the core of our issue is a pursuit to gain the knowledge of the scriptures, and that means to understand what the writer understood and meant to convey.

The word that Peter used was Kosmos. What Peter is referring to is civilization, the civilized world. Science has put a lot of research and study into HOW farming & civilization spread from the Middle East to Europe and the rest of the world.

Cosmos is originally a Greek word, meaning both "order" and "world," because the ancient Greeks thought that the world was perfectly harmonious and impeccably put in order. We now use cosmos without the idea of perfect order.

ewq1938 · Jul 25, 2018

Serving Zion said:
Could you expand on that for us? A most common traditional understanding is that the expression is synonymous - hence the topic of this thread. Thank you.

I posted this once but I can again:

Both man and animals have a living soul and the breath of life and a spirit.

Genesis 1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature [soul] that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

living= 02416 chay
creature = 05315 nephesh

Genesis 1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature [soul] after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

living= 02416 chay
creature = 05315 nephesh

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

living= 02416 chay
soul= 05315 nephesh

Both man and animals are a "living soul" according to God.

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Man has the "breath of life".

Genesis 7:14 They, and every beast after his kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind, and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort.
Genesis 7:15 And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.

Animals also have the breath of life.

1 Corinthians 15:39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.

Man and animals have different flesh, but both are a living soul and the breath of life.

Ecclesiastes 3:18 I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.
Ecclesiastes 3:19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath [ru^ach]; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.
Ecc 3:20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.

What befalls the flesh of animals will also befall the flesh of man. Animals and man have the same breath! Breath here is ru^ach meaning spirit!

(YLT) For an event is to the sons of man, and an event is to the beasts, even one event is to them; as the death of this, so is the death of that; and one spirit is to all, and the advantage of man above the beast is nothing, for the whole is vanity.

Animals and man have one spirit (one spirit to all) meaning the same spirit!

07307 ruwach {roo'-akh}
from 07306; TWOT - 2131a; n f

AV - Spirit or spirit 232, wind 92, breath 27, side 6, mind 5, blast 4,
vain 2, air 1, anger 1, cool 1, courage 1, misc 6; 378

1) wind, breath, mind, spirit

Ecclesiastes 3:20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.

The flesh of animals and man both go to the same place!

Ecclesiastes 3:21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?

The only difference is the spirit of man will go up to God while the spirit of an animal will go down. No resurrection for animals, no afterlife.

So, according to God both man and animals are a living soul and have the the breath of life and have a spirit.

Serving Zion · Jul 26, 2018

joshua 1 9 said:
This is clearly a referance to Noah's sons and daughters in law. They were the only people that survived the flood that had the ruach -- breath of God. Even at the time of Jesus He refereed to the non Hebrew people as dogs. NOTHING had prepared the disciples for the Gentiles receiving the HOLY Spirit and being saved. They simply could not ignore the fact that the gentiles were receiving the Holy Spirit of God. The church age is the time of the gentiles. When the gentiles are able to receive the breath of God.

Soon the church age or the Holy Spirit dispensation, or the age of Grace is going to come to an end. Then we will begin the Kingdom Age when we will rule and reign with Christ here on the Earth. Already their are countries where the average age is 90. We are told that will increase to 100 during the 1,000 year reign of Christ. Isaiah 65:22 talks about the Kingdom age: "Never again will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not live out his years; the one who dies at a hundred will be thought a mere child; the one who fails to reach a hundred will be considered accursed."

Isaiah 6: 6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given, and the government will be upon His shoulders. And He will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. 7Of the increase of His government and peace there will be no end. He will reign on the throne of David and over his kingdom, to establish and sustain it with justice and righteousness from that time and forevermore. The zeal of the LORD of Hosts will accomplish this.

We have been putting these verses in Christmas Cards for years. The point of all of this is that as it was in the Days of Noah, so it will be here - now at the end of this age, the time of he gentiles. ONLY those who have the Ruach (breath) of God will be saved and spared. Those who do not have this, like in the days of Noah the will be destroyed.

I think that our pets will be in Heaven but they will be there because we have the resurrection power of God at work in us and in our lives. It will be nice when we arrive at out mansion and see so many of our beloved pets there at our mansion. I am sure this will be a wonderful reunion and they will be so glad to see us on that day when we arrive.

I don't agree with your reading of the scripture in Genesis 7:15. I am sorry that we cannot be united over this matter.

Serving Zion · Jul 26, 2018

ewq1938 said:
I posted this once but I can again:

Both man and animals have a living soul and the breath of life and a spirit.

Genesis 1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature [soul] that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

living= 02416 chay
creature = 05315 nephesh

Genesis 1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature [soul] after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

living= 02416 chay
creature = 05315 nephesh

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

living= 02416 chay
soul= 05315 nephesh

Both man and animals are a "living soul" according to God.

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Man has the "breath of life".

Genesis 7:14 They, and every beast after his kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind, and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort.
Genesis 7:15 And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.

Animals also have the breath of life.

1 Corinthians 15:39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.

Man and animals have different flesh, but both are a living soul and the breath of life.

Ecclesiastes 3:18 I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.
Ecclesiastes 3:19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath [ru^ach]; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.
Ecc 3:20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.

What befalls the flesh of animals will also befall the flesh of man. Animals and man have the same breath! Breath here is ru^ach meaning spirit!

(YLT) For an event is to the sons of man, and an event is to the beasts, even one event is to them; as the death of this, so is the death of that; and one spirit is to all, and the advantage of man above the beast is nothing, for the whole is vanity.

Animals and man have one spirit (one spirit to all) meaning the same spirit!

07307 ruwach {roo'-akh}
from 07306; TWOT - 2131a; n f

AV - Spirit or spirit 232, wind 92, breath 27, side 6, mind 5, blast 4,
vain 2, air 1, anger 1, cool 1, courage 1, misc 6; 378

1) wind, breath, mind, spirit

Ecclesiastes 3:20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.

The flesh of animals and man both go to the same place!

Ecclesiastes 3:21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?

The only difference is the spirit of man will go up to God while the spirit of an animal will go down. No resurrection for animals, no afterlife.

So, according to God both man and animals are a living soul and have the the breath of life and have a spirit.

Thank you, yes I did see this earlier. One thing I didn't ask, is how did you arrive to decide that you should place the word "soul" in Genesis 1:21,24?

Also, you seem to say that animals have ruach, but there is something unique about Ruach HaKadosh (A holy spirit). I would like to hear you explain that difference, if you will.

I have noticed before that others have read Ecclesaistes 3:21 to think it says the spirit of the animal goes down while the man's spirit goes upward - and I have corrected the readers to show them that the proper reading doesn't say that. It is in fact asking a question, which is saying that even the writer doesn't make a certain statement of it. The other thing is that I read it to describe the human who is dead in spirit, who is described (somewhat generously) as a beast in various scriptures (2 Peter 2:10-12).

ewq1938 · Jul 26, 2018

Serving Zion said:
Thank you, yes I did see this earlier. One thing I didn't ask, is how did you arrive to decide that you should place the word "soul" in Genesis 1:21,24?

same Hebrew words are used. livingH2416 creatureH5315 Verses gen 2:7 a livingH2416 soul.H531see the Hebrew words are the same. Living creature=living soul.

Also, you seem to say that animals have ruach, but there is something unique about Ruach HaKadosh (A holy spirit). I would like to hear you explain that difference, if you will.

Can you supply a verse?

I have noticed before that others have read Ecclesaistes 3:21 to think it says the spirit of the animal goes down while the man's spirit goes upward - and I have corrected the readers to show them that the proper reading doesn't say that. It is in fact asking a question, which is saying that even the writer doesn't make a certain statement of it.

The other thing is that I read it to describe the human who is dead in spirit, who is described (somewhat generously) as a beast in various scriptures (2 Peter 2:10-12).

One can ask a question of fact. Do you know that the spirit of an animal goes down while the spirit of a man goes up? It doesn't mean the asker has doubts...only questioning you if you know it or not.

joshua 1 9 · Jul 26, 2018

Serving Zion said:
I don't agree with your reading of the scripture in Genesis 7:15. I am sorry that we cannot be united over this matter.

I did a google search and I do not see much support for your contention that the Holy Spirit of God: "7307. ruach" is given to animals.

Genesis 6:3 "Then the LORD said, "My Spirit (7307. ruach) will not contend with humans forever, for they are mortal; their days will be a hundred and twenty years."

Genesis1:2 "Now the earth was formless and void,and darkness was over the surface of the deep. And the Spirit (7307. ruach) of God was hovering over the surface of the waters. "

In Genesis 6:7 when we are told God will destroy all flesh with the breath of life the reference is clearly toward man.

Chinchilla · Jul 26, 2018

Cement said:
I suggest you read post #57. Adam originally had the Holy Spirit but had lost it and thus his whole progeny were born without the Spirit. Thats why Jesus tells those let the dead bury their dead. He is speaking in a spiritual matters and not making some unmannerly quip.

Yes , that's why I argued that children were born in image of Adam from now on meaning spiritually dead ( without HS) , while somebody else claimed that they were born of God .

Serving Zion · Jul 26, 2018

joshua 1 9 said:
I did a google search and I do not see much support for your contention that the Holy Spirit of God: "7307. ruach" is given to animals.

Genesis 6:3 "Then the LORD said, "My Spirit (7307. ruach) will not contend with humans forever, for they are mortal; their days will be a hundred and twenty years."

Genesis1:2 "Now the earth was formless and void,and darkness was over the surface of the deep. And the Spirit (7307. ruach) of God was hovering over the surface of the waters. "

In Genesis 6:7 when we are told God will destroy all flesh with the breath of life the reference is clearly toward man.

Well I've done enough work on this with you.

Serving Zion · Jul 26, 2018

ewq1938 said:
same Hebrew words are used. livingH2416 creatureH5315 Verses gen 2:7 a livingH2416 soul.H531see the Hebrew words are the same. Living creature=living soul.

The soul is the creature then, the one whom we perceive and know? This is to say the soul is the body and person that we know?

ewq1938 said:
Can you supply a verse?

Not exactly! .. there is Ruach HaKodesh, that is to name the very spirit of God, The Spirit that is Holy, but nothing in a search brings out the expression Ruach HaKadosh - that is to say that a person's spirit is holy but not to name their spirit as being The Holy Spirit of God.

I did find one in the Greek of the New Testament though, of 1 Corinthians 7:34: "The woman who is unmarried and the virgin cares for the things of The Lord, that she should be holy both in body and in spirit" - the words holy, body and spirit being hagios, sóma and pneuma - the Hebrew equivalents being kadosh, basar and ruach.

ewq1938 said:
One can ask a question of fact. Do you know that the spirit of an animal goes down while the spirit of a man goes up? It doesn't mean the asker has doubts...only questioning you if you know it or not.

In context of this passage, it shows that Kohelet (teacher) is saying "all is meaningless! - what does life profit a man? for he only returns to the dust again .. and, who knows whether the spirit of a man goes up while the spirit of the beast goes down? .. there is nothing better than for a man to enjoy the fruits of his labour, for that is his reward" .. showing that the point is to express the attitude of Titus 3:9, that there is too much unfruitful argument over such speculations - not to make a statement for the purpose of doctrine.

yeshuaslavejeff · Jul 28, 2018

We Ekklesia are still in the world, but not of the world.
As written of the very first congregations, there are many anti-christs among us,
thus the constant need to be on guard for one another,
and to be aware of the enemies all around and
the constant intent of the world to being everyone down.....
thus the need to remain abiding in God's Word, in union with Jesus,
and to lean on His Understanding....

Serving Zion said:
I just hate all this arguing - it shouldn't be that way.

joshua 1 9 · Aug 4, 2018

Serving Zion said:
Well I've done enough work on this with you.

Everyone seems to think that our pets are going to be in Heaven. So do you think that only the animals that were on the ARK will be in Heaven? Will there be dinosaurs in Heaven or Kangaroos, even though they were not on Noah's ARK?

joshua 1 9 · Aug 4, 2018

Serving Zion said:
In context of this passage, it shows that Kohelet (teacher) is saying "all is meaningless!

Solomon did not have the Mind of Christ. That is why those who are the least in the Kingdom of God are greater then the greatest under the Old Covenant. Heb8:6b "He is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises."

Serving Zion · Aug 4, 2018

joshua 1 9 said:
Everyone seems to think that our pets are going to be in Heaven.

I avoid speculation, it is too difficult to support and ultimately therefore does more harm than good. Spirit, ruach, is well known as visible in the present reality, as such I only speak of it that way.

joshua 1 9 said:
Solomon did not have the Mind of Christ.

I haven't yet seen scriptural support for this, could you show me why you have believed so?

joshua 1 9 · Aug 4, 2018

Serving Zion said:
I haven't yet seen scriptural support for this, could you show me why you have believed so?

Why I believe that Jesus was greater than Solomon? Your question does not make any sense. But ok, I will give you the scriptures.

Matthew 12:43 "The Queen of the South will rise at the judgment with this generation and condemn it; for she came from the ends of the earth to listen to Solomon's wisdom, and now something greater than Solomon is here."

Jesus does not even say that Solomon was the greatest, he gives that honor to his cousin John the Baptist. Matthew 11:11 "Truly I tell you, among those born of women there has risen no one greater than John the Baptist. Yet even the least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he."

Whoever is least under the new covenant is greater than whoever was the greatest under the old. Heb 8:6 "But in fact the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, since the new covenant is established on better promises."

1Kings 4 "And God gave Solomon wisdom, exceedingly deep insight, and understanding beyond measure, like the sand on the seashore. 30 Solomon’s wisdom was greater than that of all the men of the East, greater than all the wisdom of Egypt. 31 He was wiser than all men..."

As far as teaching on the Mind of Christ, there really is no end to that. A church I attended did a teaching on the Love Mind of Christ. There were hundreds of sermons based on scriptures that talk about different aspects of the Mind of Christ.

1cor2:16b "we have the mind of Christ."

Philip2:5 "Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:"

We can then start to look at scriptures where Jesus talks about the qualities that He has. For example Mat11 "learn from Me; for I am gentle and humble in heart," There are many many passages like this that tells us about Jesus and the qualities we have when we have the mind of Christ.

1cor2 "But God has revealed it to us by the Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. 11 For who among men knows the thoughts of man except his own spirit within him? So too, no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 12 We have not received the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us"

People write whole books about the mind of Christ so this subject can go on and on. AS well as the Divine Thoughts of God. I try to keep these posts as sort and concise as I can. John 21:25 "Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written."

When you consider that Jesus is the WORD of God and everything that is was created in and through Jesus. Then we can see that every book in the world would not be enough to tell us about Jesus and what He has done. Just like one post is not enough to talk about the Mind of Christ & the Divine thoughts of God.

Serving Zion · Aug 4, 2018

joshua 1 9 said:
Why I believe that Jesus was greater than Solomon? Your question does not make any sense.

That's the best place to stop and ask for clarification. King Solomon knew that too BTW (Proverbs 18:13).

I don't want a long conversation as you have proposed. If you have no better argument then I will be content to know that you have been satisfactorily taught to believe so, while I have not.

joshua 1 9 · Aug 4, 2018

Serving Zion said:
I avoid speculation

"Speculation" about Heaven? In main line denominations we pray the Lords Prayer EVERY Sunday. We pray: "Thy Kingdom Come, Thy Will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven." If we are to live our life here on Earth as they live in Heaven then we need to make an attempt to understand a little bit about Heaven so we can know what it means to be a part of the Kingdom of God.

Serving Zion · Aug 4, 2018

joshua 1 9 said:
"Speculation" about Heaven? In main line denominations we pray the Lords Prayer EVERY Sunday. We pray: "Thy Kingdom Come, Thy Will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven." If we are to live our life here on Earth as they live in Heaven then we need to make an attempt to understand a little bit about Heaven so we can know what it means to be a part of the Kingdom of God.

That is fair enough, as long as we avoid speculations :oldthumbsup:

joshua 1 9 · Aug 4, 2018

Serving Zion said:
That's the best place to stop and ask for clarification. King Solomon knew that too BTW (Proverbs 18:13).

I don't want a long conversation as you have proposed. If you have no better argument then I will be content to know that you have been satisfactorily taught to believe so, while I have not.

Solomon wrote 1,000 books. Only three of them were approved for the Bible. He use to like to have dinner parties and he would invite the wisest people he could find and they would sit around and talk after eating their meal. Then people would rate how much wisdom people had in what they were saying.

One famous passage in the Bible talks about a virtuous women. Pro31:1 "The words of King Lemuel, the oracle which his mother taught him:" We see that this teaching comes from King Lemuel and he learned this from his mother. So even today women follow the teachings of King Lemuel's mother that we read about in our Bible in the books attributed to Solomon.

In Bible college we are taught that people have to discover truth for themselves. WE can only help them along the way. The HOLY Spirit is to be out teacher and our guide. So we do not need man to teach us.

Gottservant · Aug 10, 2018

I think the thing here is "you were with Me in the beginning" (John).

If we were with Christ in the beginning, it was by the Holy Spirit's power.

So the sin, is basically taking what was in the beginning and making it into something that is for a private end - which is not how it was in the beginning.

Brotherly Spirit · Aug 18, 2018

I've thought the same that the breath of life is the Holy Spirit. My thinking is the dust of the earth is barren and the breath of life is the essence of God. We're dead without him being of the earth, but being of him we're given life. Seems prophetic or metaphorical to baptism when man before was created being born a certain way, then after was changed being born again.

When Jesus was baptized he was submerged in the water as if he was in the womb again, and he reemerged out of the water with a deep breath signifying he's alive, this is when the Holy Spirit of God comes from above and enters him. (Also wasn't Jesus giving to Mary in the spirit, the Holy Spirit? So the life God gives is his Spirit?)

Considering the strong similarities between creation of man and baptism, I can't dismiss the idea that the breath of life is the spirit of God (the Holy Spirit). Not read the whole thread, but few posts on the first page; I don't understand with ease how people know certainly it's not. Why isn't the barren creation of man life before God and fullness of man life after? Isn't this God creating something from nothing, a lifeless man who was dust?

Breath of Life=Holy Spirit?

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