Seemingly Anti-OSAS Scriptures

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OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved) or Eternal Security or the Free Will Baptist Belief (i.e. A Non-OSAS sin and still be saved type gospel) is not even remotely supported in Scripture.

There are just too many different kinds of lists of Scripture that refute it big time. A person has to ignore the plain straight forward meaning of Scripture in order to make the above unbiblical beliefs work. For...

After we are saved by God's grace,
God’s works (done through us) are also required as a part of the Salvation Process:


“Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." (James 2:24).

"Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.” (James 2:17-18).

"They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." (Titus 1:16).

"If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, "(1 Timothy 6:3-4).

"...God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble." (James 4:6).

"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? (Romans 6:1-2).

"And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him." (Hebrews 5:9).

"Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord" (Hebrews 12:14).

“...God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth” (2 Thessalonians 2:13).

“For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.” (Romans 8:13).

"If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha." (1 Corinthians 16:22).

"If ye love me, keep my commandments." (John 14:15).

“If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.” (John 15:10).

"And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me." (Matthew 10:38).

”If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? (Matthew 16:24-26).

"...No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God." (Luke 9:62).

“Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.” (Matthew 5:8).

"Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls." (James 1:21).

"But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God." (Romans 2:8-11).

”And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.” (Revelation 22:12-15).

"For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved." (John 3:20).

“For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.” (Romans 11:21-22).

"...but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." (Matthew 19:17).

“Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.” (Philippians 2:12).

“...And having become servants of God, ye have your fruit unto holiness and the end, everlasting life.” (Romans 6:22).

”Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.” (Matthew 25:34-40).

“Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.” (Matthew 25:41-46).

”His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.” (Matthew 25:21).

”And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” (Matthew 25:30).

”Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation [i.e. as the people of Israel did when they rebelled against him in the desert.”] (Hebrews 3:12-15) (Note: The explanation on verse 15 in brackets is taken from the Living Bible Translation (TLB)).

”Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways. So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)” (Hebrews 3:10-11).

”Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. (Hebrews 4:11).

“In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:10).

“He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God” (John 8:47).

Also, here are several lists of verses that makes it absolutely clear that believers can fall away from the faith:

Here is a General List of Verses on How Believers Can Fall Away:

1 Samuel 16:14
1 Samuel 31:4
Ezekiel 18:24
Hebrews 3:12-14
Hebrews 4:11
Hebrews 6:4-9
Hebrews 10:26-30
Hebrews 12:15
1 Timothy 1:18-20
1 Timothy 4:1-7
Galatians 3:1-5
2 Peter 2:20-22
2 Peter 3:17
Matthew 13:18-23
1 Corinthians 10:12
2 Thessalonians 2:3

Now, do not misunderstand me, believers cannot lose their salvation, but they can forfeit their salvation (i.e. they can willingly throw it away by rebelling against God). In fact,

Here is a list of believers who have forfeited their salvation:

Saul (1 Samuel 16:14) (1 Samuel 31:4)
Demas (2 Timothy 4:10)
The Prodigal Son (Luke 15:11-32)
Judas Iscariot (Psalm 41:9) (Luke 6:16) (Acts 1:25)
Hymenaeus and Philetus (2 Timothy 2:17-18)
Unnamed Christians destroyed by false teaching (2 Timothy 2:17-18)
Many Unnamed Disciples (John 6:66)
Some Younger Christian Widows (1 Timothy 5:14-15)
Some Christians Eager For Money (1 Timothy 6:8-10)
Ananias and Sapphira (Acts of the Apostles 5:1-11)

And here is a list of potential fallen believers:
The Servant Who is Not Looking For Him (Luke 12:45-46)
Recent Convert Who is a Potential Spiritual Leader (1 Timothy 3:6)
The Unforgiving in Heart (Matthew 6:14-15)
Luke Warm Unrepentant Believer (Revelation 3:14-22)
Fruitless Christians (John 15:1-10) (Matthew 25:14-30)
Widows That Live in Pleasure (1 Timothy 5:5-6)
Believers Whose Seed Fell Upon the Rocks (Luke 8:13)
Believers Whose Seed Was Choked by Thorns (Matthew 13:22)
Gentile Believer Who Did Not Have on a Wedding Garment (Matthew 22:1-14) (Revelation 19:7-8)
The Potential Fellow Believer Who Erred From the Truth & Was Converted Back
(James 5:19-20)​


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In addition, here is a list of "If Statements" that refute a "Grievous Sin and Still Be Saved Belief," as well:

  1. Matthew 5:30 - “And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.”

  2. Matthew 6:15 - “But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.”

  3. Mark 8:36 - ”For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?”

  4. Matthew 19:17 - “...but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.”

  5. Matthew 24:48-51 - “But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken; The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

  6. John 8:42 - “Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.”

  7. John 8:51 - “Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.”

  8. John 14:23 - “Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.”

  9. John 15:6 - “If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.”

  10. John 15:14 - “Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.”

  11. Acts of the Apostles 8:22 - “Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.”

  12. Romans 8:13 - “For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.”

  13. Romans 10:9 - “That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.”

  14. Romans 11:21 - “For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.”

  15. Romans 11:22 - “Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.”

  16. 1 Corinthians 3:17 - “If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.”

  17. 1 Corinthians 5:11 - “But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.”

  18. 1 Corinthians 7:9 - “But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.”

  19. 1 Corinthians 16:22 - “If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha.”

  20. 2 Corinthians 11:15 - “Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.”

  21. Galatians 5:2 - “Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.”

  22. Colossians 1:21-23 - “And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;”

  23. 1 Timothy 5:8 - “But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.”

  24. 1 Timothy 6:3-4 - “If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,”

  25. 2 Timothy 2:12 - “... if we deny him, he also will deny us:”

  26. Hebrews 10:26 - “For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,”

  27. Hebrews 10:38 - “Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.”

  28. James 1:26 - “If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.”

  29. James 2:17 - “Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.”

  30. James 5:19-20 - “Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.”

  31. 1 Peter 4:18 - “And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?”

  32. 2 Peter 2:4-6 - “For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;”

  33. 1 John 1:7 - “But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.”

  34. 1 John 1:9 - “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”

  35. 1 John 2:3 - “And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.”

  36. 1 John 4:20 - “If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?”

  37. Revelation 14:9-10 - “And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:”

  38. Revelation 22:19 - “And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.”
Some in the OSAS camp say that a believer only uses fellowship when they sin, and they do not lose salvation. However, this is not what Scripture teaches.

Here is a list of verses showing that believers cannot be out of fellowship with the Lord and still be saved:


#1. 1 John 5:12 says He that has the Son has life and He that does not have the Son does not have life. Life is associated with eternal life or salvation.

#2. John 17:3 says eternal life is in knowing the one true God, Jesus Christ. Knowing implies a fellowship. So if you don't know Jesus, then you don't have life (Salvation).

#3. Romans 8:9 says if he a man does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to him.

#4. Psalms 73:27 says God will destroy all those who abandon Him (or go a whoring from Him).

#5. John 15:6 says if a man does not abide in Him, he is cast forth and burned.

#6. 1 John 1:7 says if we walk in the Light as He is in the Light, the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin.

#7. Romans 11:21-22 says if you do not continue in his goodness you will be cut off. For if God spared not the natural branches (i.e. the Jews), take heed that he can do the same to you (i.e. Gentile believers). The analogy here is that you are branch and Christ is the tree. We need to continue in Christ's righteousness or goodness, not our own righteousness or goodness, or we will be cut off because of unbelief.​

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Furthermore, the Bible teaches that grievous sin is separation from GOD:

[God said to Adam,]
"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." (Genesis 2:17).

[Eve said to the serpent,]
"But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. (Genesis 3:3).

And the serpent said unto the woman,
"Ye shall not surely die." (Genesis 3:4).

"...she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked..." (Genesis 3:6-7).

"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned." (Romans 5:12).

"For the wages of sin is death..." (Romans 6:23).

"But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear." (Isaiah 59:2).

“...whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.”
(Matthew 5:22).

28 “But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.” (Matthew 5:28-30).

“But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.” (Matthew 6:15).

“Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.” (Matthew 7:21)

Important Note: If you were to look at 1 Thessalonians 4:3 you would learn that the will of God (i.e. the Father) is to be holy or it is our sanctification; And Hebrews 12:14 says, without holiness no man shall see the Lord.

“22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’
23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’” (Matthew 7:22-23 ESV).

“26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.”
(Matthew 7:26-27).

“15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.” (Matthew 7:15-20).

"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins." (Hebrews 10:26).

"he that commits sin is of the devil." (1 John 3:8).

"everyone who does evil hates the light." (John 3:20).

"Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee." (Acts of the Apostles 8:22).

6 "If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth.
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." (1 John 1:6-7).

"He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." (1 John 2:4).

"Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him." (1 John 3:15).

"He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now." (1 John 2:9).

"In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother." (1 John 3:10).

41 "The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers,
42 and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear." (Matthew 13:41-43 ESV).

“For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.” (Matthew 12:37).

"They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." (Titus 1:16).

3 "If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
4 He is proud, knowing nothing,..." (1 Timothy 6:3-4).

"...God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble."
(James 4:6).

21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off." (Romans 11:21-22).

16 "There is a sin unto death..."
17 "...and there is a sin not unto death." (1 John 5:16-17).

"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." (Revelation 21:8).

19 "Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God." (Galatians 5:19-21).

5 "Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affe
ction, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
7 In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them." (Colossians 3:5-7).

5 “...God;
6 ...will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law” (Romans 2:5-12).

“But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.” (Ezekiel 18:24).

9 “Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. “ (1 Corinthians 6:9-10).

“Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.” (James 2:17).

"And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." (Matthew 25:30).

“For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.” (Romans 8:13).​
 
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In Eternal Security or OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved), the talk of holiness and conforming to Christ is an illusion because they also say you can sin on occasion and yet you are still saved. This is what the two fold message of Eternal Security is all about.

However, we know that the general message of OSAS in many cases tends to lead people into being enslaved to their sin and not being set free from it. How so? Just check out these testimonies below.

Ex OSAS Audio Testimonies:
Testimonies of former eternal security believers
http://www.noeternalsecurity.com/testimonies.htm

Suicide & OSAS:
A tragic story of an OSAS believer.
http://www.behindthebadge.net/osas/osas33.html

A Pastor's Testimony on OSAS:
A testimony about OSAS by a Pastor's wife.
http://www.behindthebadge.net/osas/osas59.html

Hooked on Sin & OSAS:
Out Of Darkness | NO Eternal Security | Christian Testimony
https://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/joetestimony.htm

Suicide, Mass Murder, and OSAS:
George Sodini
http://eternalsecurity.us/george_sodini.htm
 
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On top of that, Eternal Security cannot be made into a real life example (or parable). Jesus and even the Canaanite woman were able to make parables (or real world examples) to express spiritual truth. But this cannot be done with Eternal Security (For it has to ignore morality or God's goodness in order to make it work). For when you tell people that they are saved by a belief alone and not of works, and you say nothing more, this can potentially lead a person to think that you are saying that you can sin and still be saved (Unless you clarify that point every time you preach the gospel).
 
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There are only two possibilities for believers.

They either believe they are saved by:

#1. God's grace + good works.
#2. God's grace + sinful deeds.

There is no in-between option.

It is either one or the other.

So which option do you believe in?

Option 1 or Option 2?

For a believer is going to bring forth fruit.
Jesus says we will know a good tree by the fact that it brings forth good fruit (See Matthew 7).
 
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FreeGrace2

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No scriptures here, just you typical opinion, "tagged" with a scripture reference.
Just more lame claims.

This is not what John 10:28 says. Why do you do this?
OK, please address the color coded words in v.28 and explain that Jesus was not teaching about the CAUSE and EFFECT of having eternal life and prove that He was not teaching eternal security.

"And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand."

The red words state the CAUSE of having eternal life, which is Jesus Christ Himself.

The blue words state the EFFECT of having eternal life, which is to never perish.

Prove otherwise. Which cannot be done.

Because you are wanting to hide the truth the scriptures teach.
So go ahead and prove that Jesus wasn't teaching about the CAUSE and EFFECT of having eternal life.

So, like a coloring book, I made it easy to follow my points.

John 15:6 ends your bogus man made doctrine of fallacy and deceit.
Well, I sure wouldn't claim that Jesus was a bogus man. That's pretty far out. Heresy, even.

6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.
John 15:6
I see you like colors too. So addressing my color coded points should be easy then.

Jesus is referring to literal people by His use of pronouns, referring to people.
Never argued otherwise.

Your attempt to discredit and explain way the simple and plain teaching of Jesus Christ, so as to exalt your man made doctrine over the truth of God's word is crystal clear to all who read this thread.
If that's the truth, then it should be real easy to prove my color coded claims wrong.

Why haven't you yet? This isn't the first time I've given you my points all color coded, for ease of understanding.
 
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FreeGrace2

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On top of that, Eternal Security cannot be made into a real life example (or parable).
So what? Not every fact can be. Means nothing.

What Jesus said means everything.

OK, please address the color coded words in v.28 and explain that Jesus was not teaching about the CAUSE and EFFECT of having eternal life and prove that He was not teaching eternal security.

"And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand."

The red words state the CAUSE of having eternal life, which is Jesus Christ Himself.

The blue words state the EFFECT of having eternal life, which is to never perish.

Prove otherwise. Which cannot be done.
 
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FreeGrace2

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There are only two possibilities for believers.

They either believe they are saved by:

#1. God's grace + good works.
#2. God's grace + sinful deeds.

There is no in-between option.
The Bible teaches no "options", but the truth.

People are saved by grace THROUGH FAITH in Jesus Christ, and not of works.

This is exactly what Eph 2:8,9 says.

If you don't like it, then please take it up with God. It's His plan totally.
 
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Gr8Grace

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There are only two possibilities for believers.

They either believe they are saved by:

#1. God's grace + good works.
#2. God's grace + sinful deeds.

There is no in-between option.

It is either one or the other.

So which option do you believe in?

Option 1 or Option 2?

For a believer is going to bring forth fruit.
Jesus says we will know a good tree by the fact that it brings forth good fruit (See Matthew 7).
This is why a couple years ago, I stopped responding to your sinless perfection stuff and just responded with:

John 3:16

Acts 16:31 for you. Hear it and believe it. I hope you did at some time.

The biblical option, and ONLY option is Grace through faith.

Every person participating on this forum are showing us their fruits through their doctrines. And we know a good tree by their doctrines. And your doctrines have not shown good fruit.
 
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So what? Not every fact can be. Means nothing.

What Jesus said means everything.

OK, please address the color coded words in v.28 and explain that Jesus was not teaching about the CAUSE and EFFECT of having eternal life and prove that He was not teaching eternal security.

"And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand."

The red words state the CAUSE of having eternal life, which is Jesus Christ Himself.

The blue words state the EFFECT of having eternal life, which is to never perish.

Prove otherwise. Which cannot be done.

I already proved otherwise. Just look at the list of verses I provided above. The Bible has to be read as a whole. You cannot focus a laser beam on those passages or verses you prefer to see from your slanted point of view (that is simply not true).
 
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The Bible teaches no "options", but the truth.

People are saved by grace THROUGH FAITH in Jesus Christ, and not of works.

This is exactly what Eph 2:8,9 says.

If you don't like it, then please take it up with God. It's His plan totally.

You may believe that you are right, but you really are not. You know better deep down. God is good and He cannot condone His people in doing any kind of sin or evil as a part of His plan of salvation for man. OSAS or the Free Will Baptist belief turns God's grace into a license for immorality (Whether you want that to happen or not). For when you preach such a message that we are not saved by works, it can lead folks to think they can sin and still be saved.

Chastisement doesn't even make sense with your kind of belief. Chastisement is to correct our bad behavior. Yet, you believe 1 John 1:8 is a declaration that we will always have bad behavior.

For example: If a master lightly smacked his dog and yelled at him every time he pooped on the carpet (knowing the poor animal has an uncontrollable pooping problem because it is sick), it would be cruel of the master to do that. The dog cannot help but to poop. It has no choice. You say we have no choice in regards to "not sinning in this life" and yet God chastises us? For what purpose or end goal? It makes no sense with your belief.
 
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This is why a couple years ago, I stopped responding to your sinless perfection stuff and just responded with:

While denying a teaching like "Sinless Perfection" in the Bible is a problem, it is not a salvation issue in most cases. Loving God and loving your neighbor or Keeping the Moral Law (like: "Do not murder," "Do not covet," "Do not commit adultery," etc.) are the basics of the faith (and or the minimum requirement in being holy as a part of the faith in our Lord Jesus Christ).

Not sure how you can read portions of Scripture like Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, Matthew 25:31-46, 1 John 3:15, and say.... "Oh yeah. That doesn't apply to me." or "That verse or passage doesn't really mean to say that."

I just read the Bible plainly and believe it. The Eternal Security belief seeks to change what God's Word says plainly.

You said:
John 3:16

And when you read John 3:16, you also have to read John 3:20 that says all who do evil hate the light.

You said:
Acts 16:31 for you. Hear it and believe it. I hope you did at some time.

The biblical option, and ONLY option is Grace through faith.

Every person participating on this forum are showing us their fruits through their doctrines. And we know a good tree by their doctrines. And your doctrines have not shown good fruit.

You have to understand that Acts of the Apostles 16:31 was said after the Jerusalem counsel on their trying to refute "Circumcision Salvationism" or in trying to be justified by the Old Testament Law of Moses as a whole or package deal (When it does not apply anymore).

"And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved." (Acts of the Apostles 15:1).

"But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses." (Acts of the Apostles 15:5).

"Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:" (Acts of the Apostles 15:24).

Romans 7:6 says we are to SERVE in newness of spirit and not in the OLDNESS of the LETTER. In fact, in Romans 8:3-4, Paul says we are to fulfill the righteousness of the Law by walking after the Spirit. The righteous aspect or part of the Old Law is loving your neighbor (or the keeping of the Moral Law - See Romans 13:8-10). But this keeping of God's Moral Law under the New Covenant is only possible by putting on Christ (See Romans 13:14).

Paul was not against obedience to the Moral Law as a part of salvation.

"For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live." (Romans 8:13).

Acts of the Apostles 16:31 is talking about "Initial Salvation" and not "Continued Salvation." For a person cannot put the cart (works) before the horse (belief in Jesus as their savior). Also, we are not saved by Faith Alone (James 2:24) anymore than we are saved by Works Alone (Ephesians 2:8-9). We are saved by the Lord both in Justification and in Sanctification. Man cannot boast in his own salvation. He can only boast in the Lord for his salvation.
 
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FreeGrace2

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I already proved otherwise.
No, how you "prove otherwise" is the prove that my color coded points do not show what I say they show.

That, specifically,
The CAUSE of having eternal life is Jesus Christ, who gives it according to John 10:28a
The EFFECT of having eternal life is never perishing, according to John 10:28b

So you have not shown otherwise.

In fact, none of the verses you provided say anything about losing salvation.

So, why did you provide them?

Just look at the list of verses I provided above.
I sure did. And I noticed that none of them mentioned losing salvation, so I wonder why they were quoted.

The Bible has to be read as a whole.
True, and facts aren't changed by any other verse.

The FACT is: recipients of eternal life shall never perish. Directly from our Lord's mouth.

You cannot focus a laser beam on those passages or verses you prefer to see from your slanted point of view (that is simply not true).
I cordially invite you to prove that I have approached John 10:28 with a "slanted view".

I have simply noted exactly the words of Jesus.

1. Jesus is the CAUSE of having eternal life. He gives it.
2. Never perishing is the EFFECT of having eternal life because He said so.

There are no verses that change these 2 basic FACTS.
 
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FreeGrace2

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I said this:
"People are saved by grace THROUGH FAITH in Jesus Christ, and not of works.

This is exactly what Eph 2:8,9 says.

If you don't like it, then please take it up with God. It's His plan totally."
You may believe that you are right, but you really are not.
So it appears you think Eph 2:8,9 says something other than the clear words in those verses. So, what do those 2 verses really mean then?

You know better deep down.
This is a joke. I absolutely know deep down that those Jesus gives eternal life will never perish. What you SHOULD KNOW DEEP DOWN is that Jesus actually said those words and SHOULD believe what He says.

God is good and He cannot condone His people in doing any kind of sin or evil as a part of His plan of salvation for man.
Do you not understand that is exactly WHY Jesus came to earth; to die for the sins of mankind in order to break down the barrier between God and mankind because of sin.

Having done that, God is free to give eternal life to anyone who believes in His Son.

OSAS or the Free Will Baptist belief turns God's grace into a license for immorality (Whether you want that to happen or not).
So you're just afraid of how "others" might take it, huh. Why should that bother you?

Why can't you just believe exactly what Jesus said in John 10:28.

That 1 verse is FAR MORE CLEAR than ALL the verses Arminians bring up in an attempt to defend their view that salvation can be lost.

According to Jesus, that is IMPOSSIBLE.

For when you preach such a message that we are not saved by works, it can lead folks to think they can sin and still be saved.
Again, you're going to have to take that up with God. It's His plan.

Why do you reject Scripture? Eph 2:8,9 are as clear as John 10:28. And you reject both of them.

Chastisement doesn't even make sense with your kind of belief.
It probably doesn't make sense because of your skewed and deluded viewpoint.

Chastisement is to correct our bad behavior.
True.

Yet, you believe 1 John 1:8 is a declaration that we will always have bad behavior.
What do you mean by "always"? Do you mean "constantly"? What do you think 1 Jn 1:8 means?

For example: If a master lightly smacked his dog and yelled at him every time he pooped on the carpet (knowing the poor animal has an uncontrollable pooping problem because it is sick), it would be cruel of the master to do that. The dog cannot help but to poop. It has no choice. You say we have no choice in regards to "not sinning in this life" and yet God chastises us? For what purpose or end goal? It makes no sense with your belief.
I've NEVER said man doesn't have a choice. Good grief, man! Don't you bother to read my posts?

Man ALWAYS has a choice. Romans 6 addresses that choice directly.

The problem is WHEN we sin. Some sin more than others.

I've been clear about the ONLY WAY a believer cannot sin; when they are in fellowship with the Lord (a concept you have demonstrated ZERO understanding of) and filled with the Spirit (another concept you have demonstrated ZERO understanding of).

You have a very long way to go in order to grow up in your salvation. Much of what you believe is actually false doctrine.

It's been difficult to even have a discussion with you, because of your unbiblical biases.
 
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I just read the Bible plainly and believe it.
No you don't. You've demonstrated that over and over by denying eternal security and claiming that one is saved by faith plus works.

I and others have given you very clearly stated verses on both issues.

Like Pharaoh, the more you reject Scripture, the harder you heart will become.

The Eternal Security belief seeks to change what God's Word says plainly.
The plain words are found in John 10:28. It's unmistakable.

And when you read John 3:16, you also have to read John 3:20 that says all who do evil hate the light.
John was describing unbelievers.

What you continue to avoid or reject is that ONCE a person HAS placed their faith in Christ, everything changes. They ARE a new creation (2 Cor 5:17). They HAVE BEEN born again spiritually (1 Pet 1:23 - another eternal security verse). They HAVE BEEN sealed with the Spirit as a guarantee of their inheritance as God's possession (Eph 1:13,14), and that once given eternal life, the recipient shall never perish (John 10:28).

All of these 5 verses totally crush your unbiblical claims.
 
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tdidymas

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There are only two possibilities for believers.

They either believe they are saved by:

#1. God's grace + good works.
#2. God's grace + sinful deeds.

There is no in-between option.

It is either one or the other.

So which option do you believe in?

Option 1 or Option 2?

For a believer is going to bring forth fruit.
Jesus says we will know a good tree by the fact that it brings forth good fruit (See Matthew 7).
Neither 1 nor 2 is the gospel of the NT, so your proposition is a straw man.

I do good works because I am saved, not in order to be saved. I am saved by God's grace only. Because I believe this, I believe that God's love for me is unconditional, and that is my motivation for doing good works. I have no fear of losing my salvation. Rather, I am grateful to God for the awesome thing He did for me, and peace with Him is so precious to me that the thought of committing sin against Him is utterly disgusting. In this way God has changed the disposition of my heart. He turned me from a hater of God to a lover of God.

My point is that good works is not a part of being saved. If it is, then "grace is no longer grace."

"The one born of God does not continue sinning, because God's seed is in him. He cannot continue sinning because he is born of God." (1 Jn. 3:9)
TD:)
 
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Dear Free Grace:

You are repeating yourself. I am not going to argue with you and rehash the same points I already made. If you cannot see the points I made, that is because you do not want to see them (no offense).

Anyways, may God's love shine upon you
(even if we disagree strongly in regards to the faith in the Lord Jesus Christ).
 
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Neither 1 nor 2 is the gospel of the NT, so your proposition is a straw man.

I do good works because I am saved, not in order to be saved. I am saved by God's grace only. Because I believe this, I believe that God's love for me is unconditional, and that is my motivation for doing good works. I have no fear of losing my salvation. Rather, I am grateful to God for the awesome thing He did for me, and peace with Him is so precious to me that the thought of committing sin against Him is utterly disgusting. In this way God has changed the disposition of my heart. He turned me from a hater of God to a lover of God.

My point is that good works is not a part of being saved. If it is, then "grace is no longer grace."

"The one born of God does not continue sinning, because God's seed is in him. He cannot continue sinning because he is born of God." (1 Jn. 3:9)
TD:)

Well, I understand what you believe, but it is not biblical.
If you do not do good works to be saved (After being saved by God's grace), then you either ignore or twist the plain meaning of the warnings in Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, Matthew 12:37, Matthew 25:31-46, 1 John 3:15 (Among many others) and as a result, you end up turning God's grace into a license for immorality (Whether you want that to happen or not) (See Jude 1:4). For to say that we are not saved by good works is to imply that we are saved even if we sin and or if we do evil works. There is no other alternative. Faith is not something that is inactive (See Hebrews 11, and James 2).

As for 1 John 3:9:

You are quoting a Modern Translation corruption. It is talking about a singular act. For the KJV says, "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." (1 John 3:9) (KJV).

Remember, this is in context to Cain, who slew his brother. God was pleading with Cain to do what was good and right (See Genesis 4:7).

1 John 3:15 says that if we hate our brother, we are like a murderer, and no eternal life abides in us. How many acts of hatred does it take to hate your brother? Just one act of hatred is all it takes. So yes. Good work is required, unless of course you deny what 1 John 3:15 says. John says no murderer has eternal life abiding in them. How many times do you have to murder in order to be a murderer? It only takes on act of murder to be a murderer.

Also, when Paul says, "And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work." in Romans 11:6, he is referring to "Works Alone Salvationism" because he is talking to the Israelite without Christ (See Romans 11:1). For Paul was speaking against the false Pharisee religion that attempted to attack salvation in God's grace through Jesus Christ. For Romans 3:1 says, "What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?"

3 "But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised:
4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:" (Galatians 2:3-4).

"Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace." (Galatians 5:4).

At the Jerusalem counsel in the book of Acts we read:

"And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved. " (Acts of the Apostles 15:1).

"But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses." (Acts of the Apostles 15:5).

"Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:" (Acts of the Apostles 15:24).

This is all letting us know that Paul was attacking "Circumcision Salvationism" and or going back to obeying all 613 commands from the Law of Moses (as a whole or package deal). However, Hebrews 7:12 says the Law has changed. This means we are under a New Covenant with new commands. For we are to serve in newness of spirit and not in the OLDNESS of the LETTER (See Romans 7:6). In Romans 8:3-4, we learn that the purpose Christ died on the cross for us was so as to help us to walk in the Spirit so that we can fulfill the "righteousness of the law" (Meaning: The righteous aspect or part of the Old Law - "To Love your neighbor," or "to keep the Moral Law" which is an important part of the New Covenant - See Romans 13:8-10). Also, see Ephesians 5:25-27 and Titus 2:14.
 
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Gr8Grace

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While denying a teaching like "Sinless Perfection" in the Bible is a problem, it is not a salvation issue in most cases. Loving God and loving your neighbor or Keeping the Moral Law (like: "Do not murder," "Do not covet," "Do not commit adultery," etc.) are the basics of the faith (and or the minimum requirement in being holy as a part of the faith in our Lord Jesus Christ).

I do not deny sinless perfection in the bible. The Lord Jesus Christ did it perfectly. In His life, deeds and In His death.

It should be GLARINGLY obvious to you, that your faith has NOTHING to do with His life and what HE has done for you.

Being saved by His grace is through faith in what HE HAS DONE FOR US.

Your faith is all about you.

For crying out loud, GOD became a man. He was attacked day in and day out through His life. Was falsely accused everyday. Was chased by murders everyday. When he finally let them do the Fathers will. They falsely charged Him. Whipped Him to the point of death, ripping his skin and flesh to the bones. Spat on Him. Plucked His beard out. Forced a crown of thorns on His head. Drove spikes through His hands and feet and hung Him on A tree to slowly suffocate and die. And WORST of all He was forsaken by the Father......... ALL for us.

You believe in that AND you will be saved.

You believe in your little pat on the back on how good you are...........you will be judged.
 
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