Did Jesus Really Mean What He Said?

TogetherInHim said:

Christians don’t repent or grow because they believe there are no consequences for a life of no fruit-bearing and ongoing willful sin despite the fact that it is detailed and illustrated so vividly in the Word.

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TogetherInHim said:

Did Jesus Really Mean What He Said?​

I can’t help but think about the statements of Jesus in the Word and how we refuse to accept what he actually says. If he says it, he means it. If he chooses precise words, he means precise use of those words.

When Jesus refers to someone as a “master” or a “servant” while making an illustration for us to understand something, he is not talking about someone outside of his covenant. If you are not in covenant, he is not your master and you are not his servant. Of his “servants”, under his “lordship”, he expects obedience, fruit-bearing, and cooperation in the sanctification process all aided by the Holy Spirit. We absolutely refuse to believe, that if his reasonable expectations of Lordship are not met by believers, that there are consequences that can cost them their entrance to the kingdom inheritance.

“…like Esau, who sold his own birthright for a single meal. 17 For you know that even afterwards, when he desired to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no place for repentance, though he sought for it with tears.” Hebrews 12​

This is a warning in the New Covenant to believers. Our “birthright” from being “born again” is the “inheritance” of the kingdom of heaven. Over and over Jesus says, “The kingdom of heaven is like…” and gives examples of behaviors that either end up gaining entrance, or being denied entrance, to the kingdom of heaven.

These “behaviors” are works and fruit-bearing lifestyles that either have met the Lord’s expectations resulting in entrance, or have failed to meet his expectations resulting in being cast out. Since these are “behaviors” and “works” they cannot be about “salvation”. These behaviors and works are expected by a Holy God who has given everyone that has accepted salvation from death, everything they need to go all the way into the kingdom. These "works" do not "earn" the kingdom of heaven. They are the demonstration of who we actually are, as opposed to our covenant claim to be His, to whom he has given "salvation" and an "inheritance"...

26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knew that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:

27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.

28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.

29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.

30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Matthew 25:26​

If we say, “Well, he wasn’t really saved…” or, "He wasn't really a servant", we are contradicting that the Lord has defined this relationship as “Lord” and “Servant”. The Lord has no expectation of productivity from those who have not received him in covenant. Even if they “produced” something, that could not result in salvation or it would be a works-based salvation. No, it’s all about the entrance to the kingdom…

Christians don’t repent or grow because they believe there are no consequences for a life of no fruit-bearing and ongoing willful sin despite the fact that it is detailed and illustrated so vividly in the Word.

26 For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a terrifying expectation of judgment and the fury of a fire which will consume the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 31 It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

32 But remember the former days, when, after being enlightened, you endured a great conflict of sufferings, 33 partly by being made a public spectacle through reproaches and tribulations, and partly by becoming sharers with those who were so treated. 34 For you showed sympathy to the prisoners and accepted joyfully the seizure of your property, knowing that you have for yourselves a better possession and a lasting one. 35 Therefore, do not throw away your confidence, which has a great reward. 36 For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God, you may receive what was promised.

37 For yet in a very little while,
He who is coming will come, and will not delay.
38 But My righteous one shall live by faith;
And if he shrinks back, My soul has no pleasure in him.

39 But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul. (Hebrews 10)​

“Believers” understand what is being said and know that this warning, and many others spoken by their "Lord", are for them…

Watch a brief video summary of the study at: www.WhoGoesToHell.com​

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TogetherInHim said:

“Salvation” versus “Inheritance”

The church has merged two separate and distinctly different aspects of the covenant that Jesus accomplished for believers on the cross.

1. Salvation- Jesus has initiated a covenant that requires only belief and confession to receive. Once a believer enters this covenant, he has been given eternal life that will never be taken away. Believers will be resurrected from the “dead”.

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.​

2. Inheritance- Jesus has paid for, and reserved a promised place, the kingdom of heaven for those who have received his redemption from their death sentence and then “doeth” the things that are required that demonstrate his lordship of the professing believer.

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. (Matthew 7:21)​

To understand the question you have asked, and answer to it, watch a brief video summary of the study at: www.WhoGoesToHell.com

I'd love to discuss it.

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TogetherInHim said:

Well said!

One thing I would like to comment on is:


Once we have received Christ, and are given eternal life, we have been born again as an eternal spirit that cannot die. We are no longer "mortal" only. We have accepted "everlasting" life from Christ in covenant, which he will never taken away or given away. It is forever eternal.

Watch a brief video summary of the study at: www.WhoGoesToHell.com so you will get the full picture of this disciussion.

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TogetherInHim said:

Precisely! I hope you can bear a longer post so you can see the whole explanation...

Salvation-

The penalty for Adam’s sin as defined by God was “death”. There is no mention of “hell” in God’s warning or judgment.

The warning: “17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. (Genesis 2)

The judgement: “19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and to dust shalt thou return. (Genesis 3)​

How do we know that Adam, at this point, was not an “eternal” being and that he did not have “everlasting” life?

22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever:

23 Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.

24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life. (Genesis 3)​

The Lord clearly indicates that Adam does not have “everlasting” life even though he has been given “mortal” life. In fact, God prevents him from ever having that opportunity by blocking the way to the tree of life that he was once offered.

Adam was “mortal” only. Had he not eaten the forbidden fruit, he would have lived in the garden indefinitely. Had he eaten from the tree of life, he would have gained “eternal” life and “lived forever”. Now, Adam’s only hope was for a Savior from the death sentence God had leveled upon him (and us as a result).

This was always God’s intention. After Lucifer and his angels rebelled, God had to make a way to incarcerate “eternal” beings to whom he gave free will. “Eternal” beings cannot die. If they could, they would be “mortal” beings. At the same time, God wanted to make sure that those to whom he gives “eternal” life, will not rebel in the next millions of years. He need to “test” them to insure that a rebellion would never happen again. Whatever has not been tested cannot be trusted.

Here was God’s plan…

With complete foreknowledge of his creation from beginning to end, he made a place where he would give humans free will to choose between obeying God and living within his creation, or be seduced by Lucifer and dying. At the same time, God brought Satan and his angels under the same eternal judgment because they were a party to the breaking of God’s law. God saw in advance that Lucifer would implicate himself and that Adam would disobey and receive the promised death sentence.

God had always planned (“the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world”) to send a “Redeemer” who would take Adam’s death sentence and give him what he did not have, “everlasting” life.

God created man with free will in his own image (the ability to reason things out). Once Adam fell, his fallen nature (and ours) has a bent toward sin and self. We are hopelessly lost, destined to die, and cut off from God without the covenant that Jesus secured for those who accept it.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.



18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.



19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. (John 3)​

Condemned already? Before the final judgment? Yes, condemned to “death” under the curse that Adam brought into the world. If you don’t come to Jesus, you are condemned to death, being mortal.

Once someone hears the gospel, understands that they will one day die, recognize that they are innately fallen and are not acceptable to God in his holiness, and accepts the eternal covenant offer from Christ, they have received salvation from the curse of death. They will live again in the next realm of the “eternal”.

Once “saved” from death (given eternal life only given by Christ), you will never die. You will be raised as an “immortal” being in an eternal realm.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. (1 Corinthians 15)​

To whom does this “immortality” apply? Of course it is only for those who accept the covenant from Christ. Those who do not, reap “corruption” from their “mortality”. They “have been condemned already” by the curse of death that believers are redeemed from.

The test…

Whatever has not been tested cannot be trusted…

When a believer accepts the covenant offer from Christ, several tremendous things occur…

1. The believer’s sins are forgiven and his relationship to our Father God has been restored.

2. He has been given everlasting life in the eternal realm after the resurrection.

3. He will never, and can never, die.

4. Nothing and no one can ever take away the eternal life that Jesus has given and the believer
has accepted.

5. He has been given a promised place in the kingdom of heaven. Jesus paid for it and it is a

guaranteed reservation. No one can take it away.​

6. He has been given the Holy Spirit as a “Helper”. It is the Spirit of Truth that, if listened to

and obeyed, will lead you into the promised kingdom.​

7. The Holy Spirit will empower him to overcome all obstacles on the way to the kingdom of

heaven.​

8. He will still have free will along his way to the promised kingdom, to hear and walk

according to the leading and conviction of the Holy Spirit, or not listen or obey.​

9. Depending on the free will choices made by a believer, he will, find himself at the final

judgment where he will be commended and welcomed into the promised kingdom, or
having it “taken away”. Most of the parables illustrate this in great detail.​

Inheritance-

The “requirements” of obtaining a believer’s inheritance, as distinct from the “requirements” of “salvation” (hear, believe, receive) are illustrated (and hidden) in the parables as well as open and specific in the words of Jesus and the Apostles’ writings.

As with the free gift of salvation, the promised inheritance has been bought and reserved for every believer. However, this separate and distinctly different aspect of the covenant must be obtained by “striving to enter” and possess it.

Just as the Jews were saved from the curse of death while in Egypt, had to leave Egypt, go to the Holy Mountain to receive the Law (on Pentecost no less), cross over the wilderness where God said he wanted to “test” them, brought to the edge of their promised inheritance (the land promised to Abraham), were told that he had given them this land and required them to “fight” to possess it, Christians are told that we must believe God, come what may, and keep “fighting the good fight” until we overcome and find ourselves in his presence.

8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:

9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.

10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do always err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.

11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest. (Their/our promised inheritance)

12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called today; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast unto the end; (Hebrews 3)​

This indicates the requirement of “working out” our salvation. Salvation has been given and the empowerment and promise of the Lord’s faithfulness to complete his end of the covenant. Our requirement is to hold on, steadfast to the end and not shrink back.

26 For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a terrifying expectation of judgment and the fury of a fire which will consume the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 31 It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

32 But remember the former days, when, after being enlightened, you endured a great conflict of sufferings, 33 partly by being made a public spectacle through reproaches and tribulations, and partly by becoming sharers with those who were so treated. 34 For you showed sympathy to the prisoners and accepted joyfully the seizure of your property, knowing that you have for yourselves a better possession and a lasting one. 35 Therefore, do not throw away your confidence, which has a great reward. 36 For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God, you may receive what was promised.

37 For yet in a very little while,
He who is coming will come, and will not delay.
38 But My righteous one shall live by faith;
And if he shrinks back, My soul has no pleasure in him.

39 But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul. (Hebrews 10)​

This speaks of an enduring “process” that is required.


“When you have done the will of God, you may receive what was promised.”

This is a conditional statement requiring something in order to receive what God has promised. His promise is absolute. Our effort is the requirement to obtaining what he has promised.

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TogetherInHim said:

How do we know that Adam, at this point, was not an “eternal” being and that he did not have “everlasting” life?

Adam was “mortal” only. Had he not eaten the forbidden fruit, he would have lived in the garden indefinitely. Had he eaten from the tree of life, he would have gained “eternal” life and “lived forever”.

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TogetherInHim said:

Interesting that once you hear something that you "disagree with", that you stop listening to the scriptural support of the position rather than, like the Bereans, hear it all and go and search out the matter. This indicates that you can never listen to and investigate something you don't already believe is true, whether it is actually true or not. This is indoctrination. I left Catholicism because I was able listen to someone's position and scriptural argument despite my upbringing, indoctrination, and one billion Catholics who believe the same thing.

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TogetherInHim said:

How many bites did it take to bring forth death, a permanent state of being?

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It seems you have invented the idea that it takes more than one bite of the tree of life while in the Garden of Eden, to live forever...

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Regardless of how welcome we are to continually eat from the tree of life while in heaven, if Adam, while in the Garden of Eden, were to "put for his hand" once to eat (not "keeps eating"), then the Word says he would live forever. I accept what God says, not what one supposes it should say.

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TogetherInHim said:

Did Jesus Really Mean What He Said?​

I can’t help but think about the statements of Jesus in the Word and how we refuse to accept what he actually says. If he says it, he means it. If he chooses precise words, he means precise use of those words.

When Jesus refers to someone as a “master” or a “servant” while making an illustration for us to understand something, he is not talking about someone outside of his covenant. If you are not in covenant, he is not your master and you are not his servant. Of his “servants”, under his “lordship”, he expects obedience, fruit-bearing, and cooperation in the sanctification process all aided by the Holy Spirit. We absolutely refuse to believe, that if his reasonable expectations of Lordship are not met by believers, that there are consequences that can cost them their entrance to the kingdom inheritance.

“…like Esau, who sold his own birthright for a single meal. 17 For you know that even afterwards, when he desired to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no place for repentance, though he sought for it with tears.” Hebrews 12​

This is a warning in the New Covenant to believers. Our “birthright” from being “born again” is the “inheritance” of the kingdom of heaven. Over and over Jesus says, “The kingdom of heaven is like…” and gives examples of behaviors that either end up gaining entrance, or being denied entrance, to the kingdom of heaven.

These “behaviors” are works and fruit-bearing lifestyles that either have met the Lord’s expectations resulting in entrance, or have failed to meet his expectations resulting in being cast out. Since these are “behaviors” and “works” they cannot be about “salvation”. These behaviors and works are expected by a Holy God who has given everyone that has accepted salvation from death, everything they need to go all the way into the kingdom. These "works" do not "earn" the kingdom of heaven. They are the demonstration of who we actually are, as opposed to our covenant claim to be His, to whom he has given "salvation" and an "inheritance"...

26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knew that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:

27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.

28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.

29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.

30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Matthew 25:26​

If we say, “Well, he wasn’t really saved…” or, "He wasn't really a servant", we are contradicting that the Lord has defined this relationship as “Lord” and “Servant”. The Lord has no expectation of productivity from those who have not received him in covenant. Even if they “produced” something, that could not result in salvation or it would be a works-based salvation. No, it’s all about the entrance to the kingdom…

Christians don’t repent or grow because they believe there are no consequences for a life of no fruit-bearing and ongoing willful sin despite the fact that it is detailed and illustrated so vividly in the Word.

26 For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a terrifying expectation of judgment and the fury of a fire which will consume the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 31 It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

32 But remember the former days, when, after being enlightened, you endured a great conflict of sufferings, 33 partly by being made a public spectacle through reproaches and tribulations, and partly by becoming sharers with those who were so treated. 34 For you showed sympathy to the prisoners and accepted joyfully the seizure of your property, knowing that you have for yourselves a better possession and a lasting one. 35 Therefore, do not throw away your confidence, which has a great reward. 36 For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God, you may receive what was promised.

37 For yet in a very little while,
He who is coming will come, and will not delay.
38 But My righteous one shall live by faith;
And if he shrinks back, My soul has no pleasure in him.

39 But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul. (Hebrews 10)​

“Believers” understand what is being said and know that this warning, and many others spoken by their "Lord", are for them…

Watch a brief video summary of the study at: www.WhoGoesToHell.com​

Click to expand...

TogetherInHim said:

One sentence?

30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Matthew 25:30​

How about a one-word answer?

Hell.


Sorry if it takes more than a tweet to answer. I'll let Jesus tell you what happens to such a "servant"...

26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, you knew that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:

27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.

28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.

29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.

30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Matthew 25​

The other two "servants" were commended and welcomed into the kingdom... Read the parable in Matthew 25

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