Who Are The Daniel 7 "Beasts"?

DaDad · Jul 13, 2018

To All,

As proposed in the Topic "Does Daniel 2 Depict A Revived Roman Empire (~EU~)?", Verse 45 suggests that there are FIVE World Empires, i.e, Iron, Bronze, Clay, Silver, Gold = 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE.

Unfortunately the commentators propose that the Daniel Chapter 7 Four Beasts parallel the Daniel 2 Empires. Now my second grade teacher insisted that FIVE ≠ FOUR, so Scripture apparently disagrees with the commentators. Furthermore, the commentators can't even align their supposed "four" empire histories with the FOUR Beast depictions.

To add to the evidence from Chapter 2, the Clay is called the "divided kingdom". but we're not given the number of "divisions" or any hints as to the nations, except in Chapter 7. And so where modern history accounts for an era in which we have THREE Superpowers and a United Nations (a ~divided empire~), -- the depictions of the Daniel 7 "Beasts" surprisingly coincide with our THREE concurrent empire nations and the United Nations.

So who do these "Beasts" represent, and how do their depictions precisely match our modern end time THREE Superpowers and United Nations?

Thanks,
DaDad

DaDad · Jul 13, 2018

To All,

When we stop and think, there are 33 nations which have a "lion" in their Coats Of Arms. But more importantly, since the mid-1800's for such a small country England has been a dominate nation due to it's maritime infrastructure, both commercial and military. And in this powerful presence, England had established a significant number of colonies including: the regions of North America (Dominion of Canada, the seven island areas in the Caribbean regions); South America, (British Guiana, Falkland Islands, British Antarctic Territory); Africa,(Gambia, Sierra Leone, Gold Coast, Nigeria, Ascension Island, St. Helen Island, Union of South Africa, Basutoland, Swaziland, Bechuanaland, Rhodesia, Nyasaland, British East Africa, British Somaliland, Egypt, Anglo Egyptian Sudan, Uganda); Asia Minor, (Arden, Kuwait, India, Burma); the Indian Ocean Islands, (Andaman Islands, British Indian Ocean Territory, Mauritius, Maldives, Nicobar Islands, Cocos Islands); Asia, (Malaya, Sarawak, Hong Kong); South Pacific, (Commonwealth of Australia, Tasmania, New Zealand, New Hebrides, Solomon Islands, Fiji, Samoa, Tonga, Pitcairn Islands); and Gibraltar, at the mouth of the Mediterranean.

But Daniel 7 describes this ~god among nations~ as being “lifted up from the ground and made to stand upon two feet like a man”, for which one can only presume a diminished presence such that she would be reduced to to less than a dozen nearly insignificant island groups, including the relatively obscure Falkland Islands for which she went to war with Argentina in 1982.

Could this now ~mere mortal~ nation England be the "LION" in Daniel Chapter 7?

Thanks,
DaDad

Kevin Snow · Jul 13, 2018

The four beasts are latter day kingdoms. Each comes in succession of the other. The lion with eagle's wings is the United States of America. After it's wings are plucked up, it is sobered. There are 2 other kingdoms that rise to power before the rising of the North country, the beast, the last kingdom of the earth.

The bear would seem to be obviously Russia. Russia must come to power after the United States is plucked up. The leopard I can't say yet which nation it is but it will rise up. The fact that it has 4 wings of a bird and four heads means that it is represented through 4 powers. My beginning guess is that it is an eastern alliance. But after these 3 kingdoms, then the North country, the beast will arise by an alliance of 10 kingdoms. It may very well include previous kingdoms but specifically 10 will comprise it.

They are latter day kingdoms and are soon to materialize. I haven't yet done research into the symbols corresponding to the nations so I cannot declare all of this with certainty. But it would seem to be as I'm pointing out. I can declare with certainty they are latter day kingdoms and come to power in succession of each other before the beast rises to power. It is so that we can be ready and understand the times we live in.

DaDad · Jul 13, 2018

Kevin Snow said:
The four beasts are latter day kingdoms.

Very Good!

Kevin Snow said:
Each comes in succession of the other.

Better said, all four are CONCURRENT.

Kevin Snow said:
The lion with eagle's wings is the United States of America.

NO! The the Lion IS the U.K. and was the origination of the Eagle, which is the U.S.

Kevin Snow said:
After it's wings are plucked up, it is sobered.

4 The first was like a lion and had eagles’ wings. Then as I looked its wings were plucked off, and it was lifted up from the ground and made to stand upon two feet like a man; and the mind of a man was given to it.

The wings were "plucked off" from the U.K. by the Declaration of Independence of the U.S. Between the years 1850 to mid-1940's the U.K. had been a virtual ~god nation~ by virtue of: The Sun Never Sets On The British Empire. It lost virtually all of it's colonies and became a mere ~mortal nation~, and the U.S. succeeded the the U.K. preeminence.

Kevin Snow said:
...
The bear would seem to be obviously Russia.

If what you say is TRUE, then: Who/What Are The Three Ribs?

Don't you love it when Scripture is FULFILLED by History?
Thanks,
DaDad

Kevin Snow · Jul 13, 2018

DaDad said:
Very Good!

Better said, all four are CONCURRENT.

NO! The the Lion IS the U.K. and was the origination of the Eagle, of which is the U.S.

4 The first was like a lion and had eagles’ wings. Then as I looked its wings were plucked off, and it was lifted up from the ground and made to stand upon two feet like a man; and the mind of a man was given to it.
The wings were "plucked off" from the U.K. by the Declaration of Independence of the U.S. Between the years 1850 to mid-1940's the U.K. had been a virtual ~god nation~ by virtue of: The Sun Never Sets On The British Empire. It lost virtually all of it's colonies and became a mere ~mortal nation~, and the U.S. succeeded the the U.K. preeminence.

If what you say is TRUE, then: Who/What Are The Three Ribs?

Thanks,
DaDad

I know that many people believe what you say about the UK being the lion but the wings being plucked off must be the United States in this case. The United States of America IS going to be destroyed. So those wings being plucked off IS the United States itself.

The 3 ribs in it's mouth must be 3 occupations of people that are under its control. It devours much flesh to gain its control over those 3 regions of land.

DaDad · Jul 13, 2018

Kevin Snow said:
I know that many people believe what you say about the UK being the lion but the wings being plucked off must be the United States in this case.

... which happened in 1776.

Kevin Snow said:
The United States of America IS going to be destroyed. So those wings being plucked off IS the United States itself.

Whoa tiger. Your assertion is neither Scriptural nor historical.
Please see above ...

Kevin Snow said:
The 3 ribs in it's mouth must be 3 occupations of people that are under its control. It devours much flesh to gain its control over those 3 regions of land.

Yeah, I got that! So once again, and let me be more concise: WHO Are The Three Ribs????

Thanks,
DaDad

DaDad · Jul 14, 2018

... well, it appears that the person posting his views regarding the Daniel 7 Bear With Three Ribs, has no opinion as to the identity of those three Ribs.

So toward the greater Forum audience, I provide the following premise:

The Bear, Russia (former Soviet Union), has been engaged in multiple international incidents since WWII, including, but not limited to:

The 1950 Military Participation in the Korean War
The 1953 Military Insertion into East Germany
The 1956 Military Insertion into Poland
The 1956 Military Invasion of Hungary
The 1958 Closure of the Helmstedt-Berlin access road
The 1961 Construction of the Berlin Wall
The 1968 Military Invasion of Czechoslovakia
The 1976 Military Insertion into Africa
The 1979 Military Insertion into Afghanistan

Of these, Russia was invited to assist the respective governments with the exception of 1956 Hungary, and 1968 Czechoslovakia; and of course the 1961 Construction of the Berlin Wall was a violation of the Yalta Accord.

Thus I would propose that Russia had committed THREE Internationally Recognized Illegal Acts, which Daniel recognized as the "three ribs" which the Bear gnawed on.

If one reads the text, one should expect that after the Bear dropped the "three ribs", with his mouth now cleared, he will be all set to "arise and devour much flesh":

Daniel 7:5 “And behold, another beast, a second one, like a bear. It was raised up on one side; it had three ribs in its mouth between its teeth; and it was told, ‘Arise, devour much flesh.’

And where the Soviet Union dismantled the Iron Curtain in 1989, we are now poised to witness the attack on Israel in the Valley of Megiddo in coordination with Iran; and with Libya and Somalia in coordination from the south (through Egypt).

With Best Regards,
DaDad

Mark51 · Jul 16, 2018

The images that Nebuchadnezzar dreamt (Daniel 2:29-43) and later explained by Daniel-through divine interpretations-and the beast in John’s vision at Revelation 13:1, 2 are referring to the same thing: kingdoms (Revelation 17:15) that each ruled or would rule their perspective worlds. This same image and its interpretation was partially made known to Daniel-in a vision.-Daniel 8.

The only differences between them is that the image did not reflect two prior world power/kingdoms before Nebuchadnezzar’s reign: Egypt and Assyria. The “dreams” were reflective of the current kingdom and future ones. In other words, in the accounts in Daniel, Nebuchadnezzar is discussed first-although, in actuality, he was the 3rd world empire.

The forth kingdom referred to as part of Nebuchadnezzar’s image if the Roman Empire.-Daniel 2:40. Rome is identified as (“one is” at Revelation 17:10) the 6th head of the “seven-headed beast” in Revelation 17:9-11. “...the other that has not yet arrived...,” or last kingdom, is the Anglo-American power.-Revelation 17:10.

DaDad · Jul 17, 2018

Mark51 said:
The images that Nebuchadnezzar dreamt (Daniel 2:29-43) and later explained by Daniel-through divine interpretations-and the beast in John’s vision at Revelation 13:1, 2 are referring to the same thing ...

Hi Mark51,
I am well familiar with the "commentator" view(s) -- of which there are considerable difficulties.

However, if you simply start at Daniel Chapter 2, with the Image of Metals you should find that the commentators present a 1,2,3,4a,4b sequence. However Verse 45 provides a 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE sequence. And where my second grade teacher insisted that FIVE ≠ FOUR, the "Beasts" MUST represent of "divided kingdom" of Clay, -- which should include the THREE Superpowers and the United Nations.

Thanks,
DaDad

Mark51 · Jul 21, 2018

DaDad said:
Hi Mark51,
I am well familiar with the "commentator" view(s) -- of which there are considerable difficulties.

However, if you simply start at Daniel Chapter 2, with the Image of Metals you should find that the commentators present a 1,2,3,4a,4b sequence. However Verse 45 provides a 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE sequence. And where my second grade teacher insisted that FIVE ≠ FOUR, the "Beasts" MUST represent of "divided kingdom" of Clay, -- which should include the THREE Superpowers and the United Nations.

Thanks,
DaDad

Considering this is a complicated topic and requires the referencing of other scriptures to get the sense of it, my comments are in a shortened version and in limited detail.

The beast accounts in Daniel (manlike statue and animal beasts) and one account in Revelation (7-headed beast) all refer to the same subject: world powers. However, the accounts do not necessarily discuss these world powers at the same beginning/reference, point. This may be a point of confusion. It was for me.

At the writing of Revelation, the world/dominate power was Rome; and, as the account says one other “has not yet arrived.” This “other” is not three (3) separate future powers. The League of Nations and the United Nations are symbolically represented as a “two horned beast” that came “out of the earth” (Revelation 13:11); whereas, the seven-headed beast came “out of the sea.” (Revelation 13:1). Compare Isaiah 17:12, 13; Psalms 96:1

“Sea,” in the instance, represents governments that forms from masses of people; whereas, “earth,” in this instance, represents political systems that come out of already established political systems.

DaDad · Jul 22, 2018

Mark51 said:
The images that Nebuchadnezzar dreamt (Daniel 2:29-43) and... John’s vision at Revelation 13:1, 2 are referring to the same thing: kingdoms ...

Ummmmmm, -- no.
If what you say is true, then please either conform to the verse 45: Iron, Bronze, Clay, Silver, Gold = 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE world empires, or provide an alternate explanation for that FIVE ENTITY Intelligent Design.

Thanks,
DaDad

DaDad · Jul 23, 2018

To All,

Daniel 7:6 After this I looked, and lo, another, like a leopard, with four wings of a bird on its back; and the beast had four heads; and dominion was given to it.

So if the Lion/Eagle and Bear are obvious, we need to understand Daniel's perspective to glean the WHAT and WHY of the "leopard". Now many have postulated that the most obvious candidate for a "leopard" is Germany. But that is incorrect, because in Daniel's day African traders would bring along their exotic animals including the circularly marked Leopards. But having no trade route to the East, in his vision Daniel saw an unknown vertically marked cat (tiger). And not having any name for this vertically marked cat, the nearest depiction was the circularly marked Leopard.

And to clarify this discrepancy, Daniel described it as having "four heads" for which China has FOUR Branches of government, versus the United States which has THREE. And Daniel also described "four wings", for which in 1975, after Mao's failed "Great Cultural Revolution", the new Premier Chou En Lai (who was with Mao in 1949) declared the "Four Modernizations", (Agriculture, Manufacturing, Science & Technology, and Military) which would propel China from a backwards country to a premier Superpower.

And here China is with a 6% increasing GDP (versus the U.S. 4%), and a military creating artificial island military outposts.

Hmmmm, maybe Bible Prophecy is TRUE!

Thanks,
DaDad

Mark51 · Jul 24, 2018

DaDad said:
Ummmmmm, -- no.
If what you say is true, then please either conform to the verse 45: Iron, Bronze, Clay, Silver, Gold = 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE world empires, or provide an alternate explanation for that FIVE ENTITY Intelligent Design.

Thanks,
DaDad

If you are referring to Daniel 2:45, it is not a human world power. It is referring to God.s Kingdom with Jesus as its head.

Mark51 · Jul 24, 2018

DaDad said:
To All,

Daniel 7:6 After this I looked, and lo, another, like a leopard, with four wings of a bird on its back; and the beast had four heads; and dominion was given to it.

So if the Lion/Eagle and Bear are obvious, we need to understand Daniel's perspective to glean the WHAT and WHY of the "leopard". Now many have postulated that the most obvious candidate for a "leopard" is Germany. But that is incorrect, because in Daniel's day African traders would bring along their exotic animals including the circularly marked Leopards. But having no trade route to the East, in his vision Daniel saw an unknown vertically marked cat (tiger). And not having any name for this vertically marked cat, the nearest depiction was the circularly marked Leopard.

And to clarify this discrepancy, Daniel described it as having "four heads" for which China has FOUR Branches of government, versus the United States which has THREE. And Daniel also described "four wings", for which in 1975, after Mao's failed "Great Cultural Revolution", the new Premier Chou En Lai (who was with Mao in 1949) declared the "Four Modernizations", (Agriculture, Manufacturing, Science & Technology, and Military) which would propel China from a backwards country to a premier Superpower.

And here China is with a 6% increasing GDP (versus the U.S. 4%), and a military creating artificial island military outposts.

Hmmmm, maybe Bible Prophecy is TRUE!

Thanks,
DaDad

The Leopard at Daniel 7:6 is the same image described at Daniel 8:5-8. The leopard had four heads/wings whereas the he-goat suffered a broken horn (Alexander the Great's death), where of which, were replaced by four other horns (Greek empire divided).

DaDad · Jul 24, 2018

Mark51 said:
The Leopard at Daniel 7:6 is the same image described at Daniel 8:5-8. The leopard had four heads/wings whereas the he-goat suffered a broken horn (Alexander the Great's death), where of which, were replaced by four other horns (Greek empire divided).

To paraphrase a saying: Friends don't let friends "guess" at Bible Prophecy.

Thanks,
DaDad

DaDad · Jul 24, 2018

Mark51 said:
If you are referring to Daniel 2:45, it is not a human world power. It is referring to God.s Kingdom with Jesus as its head.

Please see Post #15.

Thanks,
DaDad

DaDad · Jul 28, 2018

DaDad said:
...
Better said, all four are CONCURRENT.
...

Daniel 7:11 I looked then because of the sound of the great words which the horn was speaking. And as I looked, the beast was slain, and its body destroyed and given over to be burned with fire. 12 As for the rest of the beasts, their dominion was taken away, but their lives were prolonged for a season and a time.

So when the U.N. and False Prophet are destroyed, the THREE Superpowers will continue under Jesus' Millennial Reign for some ~16 months, until they are converted from the Metropolis Model to a NEW form of government under Jesus.

Thanks,
DaDad

fromtheearth · Aug 3, 2018

I read it as:

Daniel 2
Head of Gold - Babylon
Chest and arms of Silver - Media-Persia (2 parts to empire)
Belly and thigh of Bronze - Greece
Legs of Iron - Rome
Feet of Iron and Clay - Divided Rome

4 were successive, iron/clay indicates divided Rome as it is the same material as Rome.
Rome was divided east/west by Constantine
West remains in the divided form of European countries, east was conquered by Muslims in 1400s

There is only 4 empires who are characterised by 5 materials.

In Dan 7

Lion/eagle is Babylon
Bear is Media/Persia (3 ribs indicates 2 parts were lopsided/uneven in strength within the alliance)
Leopard is Greece
Unidentified beast is Rome

Dan 8

At this point Babylon was all bit destroyed, so vision begins with Medo-Persian empire.

Ram with 2 horns - Media-Persia (uneven horns same symbolism as lopsided ribs)
Male goat - Greece (Large horn broken (Alexander) replaced with 4 (Greece was divided into Macedonia, Pergamum, Egypt and Syria)
Little horn - Rome

It is also referenced in Revelation as a previous poster said.

I certainly can't see any of the other suggested explanations being more accurate than this one.

DaDad · Aug 3, 2018

fromtheearth said:
I read it as:
Daniel 2
1. Head of Gold - Babylon
2. Chest and arms of Silver - Media-Persia (2 parts to empire)
3. Belly and thigh of Bronze - Greece
4.a. Legs of Iron - Rome
4.b. Feet of Iron and Clay - Divided Rome

Hi "From"
I hope you don't mind me adding the numbering sequence, because what you depict disagrees with the Intelligent Design of verse 45, which specifies: Iron, Bronze, Clay, Silver, Gold, -- 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE world empires. But if you have an alternate explanation for the 4,3,5,2,1 Intelligent Design sequence, then please share it with us.

As it presently stands, it seems that history has fulfilled a FIFTH "Divided Kingdom" as evidence by the THREE Superpowers and United Nations.

... and if you get Chapter 2 wrong, then neither the Chapter 7 "beasts" nor the Chapter 7 Ram/Goat histories you present will match the prophecies, -- which they don't.

Thanks,
DaDad

fromtheearth · Aug 3, 2018

DaDad said:
Hi "From"
I hope you don't mind me adding the numbering sequence, because what you depict disagrees with the Intelligent Design of verse 45, which specifies: Iron, Bronze, Clay, Silver, Gold, -- 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE world empires. But if you have an alternate explanation for the 4,3,5,2,1 Intelligent Design sequence, then please share it with us.

As it presently stands, it seems that history has fulfilled a FIFTH "Divided Kingdom" as evidence by the THREE Superpowers and United Nations.

... and if you get Chapter 2 wrong, then neither the Chapter 7 "beasts" nor the Chapter 7 Ram/Goat histories you present will match the prophecies, -- which they don't.

Thanks,
DaDad

Hi DaDad

I don't mind at all.

Perhaps I should have explain it like this.

4a is Empire 4 on its own
4b is Empire 4 trying to function alongside 5 unsuccessfully.

It clearly mentioned 5 "materials" in both references, I don't understand why you are saying they are clashing?

Who Are The Daniel 7 "Beasts"?

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