What about the 2 witnesses Revelation 11

Who or what are the 2 witnesses symbolizing in Rev 11


  • Total voters
    36

LastSeven

Amil
Supporter
Sep 2, 2010
5,205
1,046
Edmonton, Alberta
✟154,576.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
My argument is that it perhaps appears no one goes to heaven upon death. But my argument isn't that no one goes nowhere then.

Luke 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

Notice what verse 22 says-----And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom. How does one explain that part since this obviously isn't meaning the body of the person being carried by the angels? The text indicates this happens upon death.
It's a parable, not a historical event.
 
Upvote 0

LastSeven

Amil
Supporter
Sep 2, 2010
5,205
1,046
Edmonton, Alberta
✟154,576.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
What does the Scripture say?
You know what the scripture says. When we are resurrected we are resurrected in immortal spiritual bodies, not physical. So what then would be the point, if we are already immortal spirits all along?
 
Upvote 0

seventysevens

Well-Known Member
Feb 27, 2017
3,207
844
USA
✟38,043.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
In Relationship
Luke 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

Notice what verse 22 says-----And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom. How does one explain that part since this obviously isn't meaning the body of the person being carried by the angels? The text indicates this happens upon death.
https://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/gills-exposition-of-the-bible/luke-16-22.html

Some people say it is a parable - some people say it is a historical account

If there is no scripture saying it is a parable then it would be a historical account
 
Upvote 0

LastSeven

Amil
Supporter
Sep 2, 2010
5,205
1,046
Edmonton, Alberta
✟154,576.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
By breathed life into us, we were given a soul.
You know that's not what Genesis 2:7 says.

It does not say that the beasts become a living soul.
King Solomon said that man has no advantage over beasts in death. All have the same breath. All go to the same place, for all are dust and to dust all return. How do you explain that?

The Bible doesn't say if animals are resurrected, so we just don't know, but we do know that they die the same way that we die and that they have the same breath of life that we have.
 
Upvote 0

LastSeven

Amil
Supporter
Sep 2, 2010
5,205
1,046
Edmonton, Alberta
✟154,576.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
https://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/gills-exposition-of-the-bible/luke-16-22.html

Some people say it is a parable - some people say it is a historical account

If there is no scripture saying it is a parable then it would be a historical account
That's your criteria? How about you look at the actual content of the story and ask yourself if any of it makes any sense at all as a historical account. Clearly it doesn't, unless you believe people in heaven can see and speak to people in hell.
 
Upvote 0

seventysevens

Well-Known Member
Feb 27, 2017
3,207
844
USA
✟38,043.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
In Relationship
That's your criteria? How about you look at the actual content of the story and ask yourself if any of it makes any sense at all as a historical account. Clearly it doesn't, unless you believe people in heaven can see and speak to people in hell.
I Have and I do - SHOW SCRIPTURE that says it is parable - you can believe whatever you want to - but it be real hard to accept what you say as fact when you refuse what scripture says about Elijah being taken to heaven
the term soul is used in two different ways in the bible depending on the context in which it is used ,. People have a soul and people are also called souls -depends on the context -
 
Upvote 0

seventysevens

Well-Known Member
Feb 27, 2017
3,207
844
USA
✟38,043.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
In Relationship
That's your criteria? How about you look at the actual content of the story and ask yourself if any of it makes any sense at all as a historical account. Clearly it doesn't, unless you believe people in heaven can see and speak to people in hell.
I gave the link so I don't have to type it out
 
Upvote 0

Dave Watchman

Well-Known Member
Jan 10, 2014
1,420
603
✟67,573.00
Faith
Christian
hmmmm i'm so interested and skeptical about these two...i wonder who they could be..

Do you mean the two witnesses?

It just looked so surprising, amoungst the cacophony of clanging gongs here, to see you ask the question.

i wonder who they could be too?

And i wonder where they are right now?

i think the guy who came the closest in this thread was EWG 1938 in post #8. The two witnesses are two of one kind of thing, and two of another kind. Two olive trees, and two lamp-stands. "Your Word is a Lamp for my feet, a Light on my Path.

But my story on it's too spooky to tell because i think that they ARE right here right now and the composite beast is watching them. They began prophesying on July 26, 2015 and are now just waiting for their other half, their two of another kind. That time signified a shift in the way that the dead are judged. The sanctuary has now been turned into it's rightful state, and the living are now judged in real time.

The two witnesses are the Holy Spirit and the Bible. And the soon to appear 72,000 pairs of the 144,000 sealed servants of God. Two of them for about every 50,000 of us. For it is better that two go than one. If one falls, the other will help him up.

"Two are better than one, because they have a good reward for their toil. For if they fall, one will lift up his fellow. But woe to him who is alone when he falls and has not another to lift him up! Again, if two lie together, they keep warm, but how can one keep warm alone? And though a man might prevail against one who is alone, two will withstand him—a threefold cord is not quickly broken."​

The Holy Spirit inspired Bible speaks of fire that will fill the Earth one day. Fire comes out of the Bible's mouth. If anyone tries to hurt these witnesses, this is how they are doomed to be killed. This is the fire that comes out of their mouth, like the sharp sword that comes out of the white horse Rider's mouth. Undiluted. Without mixture. Anybody who tries to hurt them,

"he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: and the smoke of their torment goeth up for ever and ever; and they have no rest day and night, they that worship the beast and his image, and whoso receiveth the mark of his name.​

Right from the Holy Spirit inspired Lamp to our feet.

"And they have power over the waters to turn them into blood,
and to smite the earth with every plague, as often as they shall desire.
The Bible Speaks, out from it's mouth comes tales of Blood and Fire and Columns of smoke.

"And the third poured out his bowl into the rivers and the fountains of the waters; and it became blood. And I heard the angel of the waters saying, Righteous art thou, which art and which wast, thou Holy One, because thou didst thus judge: or they poured out the blood of saints and prophets, and blood hast thou given them to drink: they are worthy​

Here is the patience of the saints,
they that keep the commandments of God,
and the faith of Jesus.
 
Upvote 0

Jenniferdiana

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jan 7, 2016
1,890
1,212
louisiana
✟174,739.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Do you mean the two witnesses?

It just looked so surprising, amoungst the cacophony of clanging gongs here, to see you ask the question.

i wonder who they could be too?

And i wonder where they are right now?

i think the guy who came the closest in this thread was EWG 1938 in post #8. The two witnesses are two of one kind of thing, and two of another kind. Two olive trees, and two lamp-stands. "Your Word is a Lamp for my feet, a Light on my Path.

But my story on it's too spooky to tell because i think that they ARE right here right now and the composite beast is watching them. They began prophesying on July 26, 2015 and are now just waiting for their other half, their two of another kind. That time signified a shift in the way that the dead are judged. The sanctuary has now been turned into it's rightful state, and the living are now judged in real time.

The two witnesses are the Holy Spirit and the Bible. And the soon to appear 72,000 pairs of the 144,000 sealed servants of God. Two of them for about every 50,000 of us. For it is better that two go than one. If one falls, the other will help him up.

"Two are better than one, because they have a good reward for their toil. For if they fall, one will lift up his fellow. But woe to him who is alone when he falls and has not another to lift him up! Again, if two lie together, they keep warm, but how can one keep warm alone? And though a man might prevail against one who is alone, two will withstand him—a threefold cord is not quickly broken."​

The Holy Spirit inspired Bible speaks of fire that will fill the Earth one day. Fire comes out of the Bible's mouth. If anyone tries to hurt these witnesses, this is how they are doomed to be killed. This is the fire that comes out of their mouth, like the sharp sword that comes out of the white horse Rider's mouth. Undiluted. Without mixture. Anybody who tries to hurt them,

"he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: and the smoke of their torment goeth up for ever and ever; and they have no rest day and night, they that worship the beast and his image, and whoso receiveth the mark of his name.​

Right from the Holy Spirit inspired Lamp to our feet.

"And they have power over the waters to turn them into blood,
and to smite the earth with every plague, as often as they shall desire.
The Bible Speaks, out from it's mouth comes tales of Blood and Fire and Columns of smoke.

"And the third poured out his bowl into the rivers and the fountains of the waters; and it became blood. And I heard the angel of the waters saying, Righteous art thou, which art and which wast, thou Holy One, because thou didst thus judge: or they poured out the blood of saints and prophets, and blood hast thou given them to drink: they are worthy​

Here is the patience of the saints,
they that keep the commandments of God,
and the faith of Jesus.
i c
 
Upvote 0

TribulationSigns

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Dec 19, 2017
3,485
1,045
Colorado
✟414,458.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
You know what the scripture says. When we are resurrected we are resurrected in immortal spiritual bodies, not physical. So what then would be the point, if we are already immortal spirits all along?

Do we have immortal spirits? Tell me, what spirit is this when we are born again?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

seventysevens

Well-Known Member
Feb 27, 2017
3,207
844
USA
✟38,043.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
In Relationship
You know what the scripture says. When we are resurrected we are resurrected in immortal spiritual bodies, not physical. So what then would be the point, if we are already immortal spirits all along?
Where does it say not physical ?

John20
25 So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord!”

But he said to them, “Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe.”

26 A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” 27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”

28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”

29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

Jesus PHYSICAL resurrected body - just as we will have
 
Upvote 0

Jenniferdiana

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jan 7, 2016
1,890
1,212
louisiana
✟174,739.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
'nuff said.

But having said that, i forgot to vote.

i'll pick: "I am not sure, but am willing to learn.

For now i c through the glass dimly.
i'm confused..lol but okay...

it doesnt matter anyway, ill probably be dead when they come unless they are here now...i mean i know for sure we are in the end times...i just find these two people interesting...i wanna know when they will come
 
Upvote 0

LastSeven

Amil
Supporter
Sep 2, 2010
5,205
1,046
Edmonton, Alberta
✟154,576.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Do we have immortal spirits? Tell me, what spirit is this when we are born again?
We do not have immortal spirits. We will become immortal spirits on the resurrection as Paul explains in 1 Corinthians 15.
 
Upvote 0

Dave Watchman

Well-Known Member
Jan 10, 2014
1,420
603
✟67,573.00
Faith
Christian
Do we have immortal spirits? Tell me, what spirit is this when we are born again?

"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.​

And man became a living nephesh.

Nephesh
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to navigation Jump to search
For other uses, see Nefesh (disambiguation).

Nephesh
(נֶ֫פֶשׁ‬ nép̄eš) is a Biblical Hebrew word which occurs in the Hebrew Bible. The word refers to the aspects of sentience, and human beings
and other animals are both described as having nephesh.

A word that is also used to describe the beasts of the field. A living creature. A living soul.

And you know what happens to the soul that sinneth?

"The soul that sinneth,
it shall die
.
Nephesh

The NAS Old Testament Hebrew Lexicon
Strong's Number:
5315 Browse Lexicon
Original Word
Word Origin
Xpn from (05314)
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Nephesh TWOT - 1395a
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
neh'-fesh Noun Feminine
Definition
  1. soul, self, life, creature, person, appetite, mind, living being, desire, emotion, passion
    1. that which breathes, the breathing substance or being, soul, the inner being of man
    2. living being
    3. living being (with life in the blood)
    4. the man himself, self, person or individual
    5. seat of the appetites
    6. seat of emotions and passions
    7. activity of mind
      1. dubious
    8. activity of the will
      1. dubious
    9. activity of the character
      1. dubious
 
  • Like
Reactions: LastSeven
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

TribulationSigns

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Dec 19, 2017
3,485
1,045
Colorado
✟414,458.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
King Solomon said that man has no advantage over beasts in death. All have the same breath. All go to the same place, for all are dust and to dust all return. How do you explain that?

My KJV reads:

Ecclesiastes 3:19 KJV
[19] For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.​

People like you contend that man does not possess an incorruptible spirit. Rather, it is alleged, humanity is wholly mortal. It is argued that in this respect man does not differ from an animal. It is based upon their misunderstanding of Ecclesiastes 3:19-21, that “there is nothing that humans have as a result of birth that gives them superiority over beasts when they die”.

This context, however, is not addressing the higher nature of man. It is simply calling attention to the fact that so far as earthly existence is concerned, men and animals have a common destiny — death! The man has no advantage over the beast in this regard.

The term “spirit,” as used in this context, has to do with the animating principle of biological life that is common to both humans and lower forms of life. There is no allusion here to the “soul” (cf. Matthew 10:28), or “spirit” (cf. Daniel 7:15; 1 Corinthians 2:11; James 2:26) of man, which is created in the image of God and which makes him unique from all animals.

Hence, by the side of Ecclesiastes 3:19-21, pointing to the Physical death in view — not the “soul” of man.
 
Upvote 0

TribulationSigns

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Dec 19, 2017
3,485
1,045
Colorado
✟414,458.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
I'm not sure what you're asking me here.

What will you get when you are born again? What spirit is it?

I will take a pause, as I have other errands to do. Take care.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

LastSeven

Amil
Supporter
Sep 2, 2010
5,205
1,046
Edmonton, Alberta
✟154,576.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
What will you get when you are born again? What spirit is it?

I will take a pause, as I have other errands to do. Take care.
Well obviously we're talking about receiving the Holy Spirit. When you are born again, you "receive" the Holy Spirit, though if anybody can accurately explain exactly how that works, I doubt very much.

I know where you're going with this, as I've heard it before. Somehow you must think that because the Holy Spirit can dwell in us that this proves we also have a spirit. I really don't see the logic in that.
 
Upvote 0