WHY GOD CREATED EVIL !!!

Adversity is probably the best translation for Isaiah 45:7.

God tests us, and corrects us.

Deuteronomy 13:3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.

Too much prosperity is the reason for Sodom's sin, Ezekiel 16:49.

Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. 35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. 36 And a man's foes [shall be] they of his own household. 37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of Me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of Me.

Those who are given adverse conditions, learn to correct their path. Testing strengthens our faith in God.

Adversity is probably the best translation for Isaiah 45:7.

Not in context! CALAMITY!

Isa 45:7 (NASB)
The One forming light and creating darkness, (opposites)
Causing well-being and creating calamity;(opposites)
I am the LORD who does all these.

Isaiah 45 (NASB)
“I am the Lord, and there is no other;
Besides Me there is no God.
I will gird you, though you have not known Me;
6
That men may know from the rising to the setting of the sun
That there is no one besides Me.
I am the Lord, and there is no other,
7
The One forming light and creating darkness,
Causing well-being and creating calamity;
I am the Lord who does all these.

God’s Supreme Power

8
“Drip down, O heavens, from above,
And let the clouds pour down righteousness;
Let the earth open up and salvation bear fruit,
And righteousness spring up with it.
I, the Lord, have created it.

God has two wills: one is determinate (meaning that there are things that He's already decided and we cannot breach) and the other His permissive will (in which we are allowed to exercise our free will).

Now what does that mean to us? It means that within certain bounds, He allows us to exercise our free will and make decisions, one way or the other even though our choice might not be pleasing to Him.

Example: As many terrible things which happen on this earth (not speaking of natural disasters) that men are capable of performing, God limits the amount of damage. For example, there are people who have access to the nuclear button, but He does not allow them to push it, as of yet. So even though we have free will, there are in fact limits on it.
What's really important, is whether we choose to serve God or not to serve Him and I believe that is what the Bible is referring to when it describes the free will of man.

Blessings.

God has ONE will! He is unified SPIRIT!

Revelation 4:11
“Worthy are You, our Lord and our God, to receive glory and honor and power; for You created all things, and because of Your will they existed, and were created.”

His will is supreme, and He graciously allows our "free will" to operate within His.

Ron Gurley said:

God has ONE will! He is unified SPIRIT!

Revelation 4:11
“Worthy are You, our Lord and our God, to receive glory and honor and power; for You created all things, and because of Your will they existed, and were created.”

His will is supreme, and He graciously allows our "free will" to operate within His.

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True. So you don't believe that God has certain things that He allows us to do (permissive) verses certain things He does not allow us to do (determinate)?

God allows ALL of spiritual "free will" to operate.

WICKED: unbelievers
SAVED: believers

John tower said:

The most blasphemous false doctrine of men is the teaching that God did not create all things, and that God is not even in control of his own creation !

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In everything, then, do to others as you would have them do to you.
For this is the essence of the Law and the prophets.
Enter through the narrow gate.

this, is the essence of the Law and the prophets
this is, the essence of the Law and the prophets
this is the essence of, the Law and the prophets

John tower said:

deliberate training

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"every one who is believing"

"and other sheep I have that are not of this fold, these also it behoveth Me to bring, and My voice they will hear, and there shall become one flock -- one shepherd."--John 10:16

"He who is rejecting Me, and not receiving My sayings, hath one who is judging him, the word that I spake, that will judge him in the last day, because I spake not from Myself, but the Father who sent Me, He did give Me a command, what I may say, and what I may speak, and I have known that His command is life age-during; what, therefore, I speak, according as the Father hath said to Me, so I speak."--John 12:48-50

"already ye are clean, because of the word that I have spoken to you;"--John 15:3

"for God did so love the world, that His Son -- the only begotten -- He gave, that every one who is believing in Him may not perish, but may have life age-during."--John 3:16
_____________________
Young's Literal Translation

Interesting subject. And confusing to lots of people.

If I have a 'child', ultimately, it is because of my mate and I that it exists. It is 'our' responsibility.

But that 'child' has a 'will' of it's own. No matter what we, as parents, DO, the child will either follow our instructions and advice, or not. But 'regardless', it will ALWAYS be a 'reflection' of US.

If that child ends up being a 'serial murderer', it is still 'our child'.

In essence, if you break it down, the reflection would indicate that through bringing that child into this world, it was through that 'act' that it's behavior became possible.

Is it any different with God?

So when the Bible says that God created 'all things', is it possible that even ideas, behavior, and other aspects of the human condition weren't DIRECTLY 'created by God', but through the creation of US those things became possible?

Like Satan. If God created Satan, and then at some point Satan rebelled and became EVIL. Isn't it possible that God didn't directly create 'evil' but by creating Satan it could be SAID that it was created by God through the creation of Satan?

If there was 'darkness' before God created ANYTHING. But upon the creation of 'light' the darkness then had significance in comparison to the 'light', in essence, couldn't it be said that without the 'light' darkness wouldn't have really existed? So by creating light, the concept of darkness THEN came into existence?

If God IS love, then He could ONLY actually 'create' that which is 'of love'. But by creating that which was created 'of love', that which was created has the capacity to exercise 'free will'. Therefore, even though God didn't create 'evil', by it coming into existence BY His 'creation' it could be 'said' that He created it, being responsible for the 'creation' that introduced it.

I know what the Bible says. But we are told that to understand it we must compare each line to ALL others to find the 'truth' coupled with guidance of the Holy Spirit.

God cannot LIE. Yet lying exists. If He cannot LIE, did He create LYING. No different than asking did God create that which is NOT 'the truth'? Could He? Ultimate He could be responsible for ALL things that exist, but does that mean HE, Himself, created those things that are contrary to what and who He truly IS?

I think people often take words from the Bible as literal when they aren't really offered that way nor meant to be interpreted that way. And that includes those that created 'churches'. Things are not ALWAYS 'black or white'. There are often 'exceptions' or 'deeper truths' that are hidden to most.

We see 'men' creating NEW things every day. Things that God is NOT 'creating'. But if we consider that WE were created by God, ultimately we COULD attribute the 'things' created by men as ultimately being created by God through His creating US.

So is the Bible being LITERAL when it states that God 'created ALL things'? It's certainly debatable from many different angles. If you insist on taking the Bible in an absolute literal translation, you could certainly BELIEVE that God created ALL things. But if you break it down you could also be able to see that through creation itself ALL things EXIST and therefore were made POSSIBLE by God. And in that context He DID create 'all things' by making ALL things that have been created possible.

Blessings,

MEC

I would say that Yahweh created us with free will to choose between things, with responsibility in that, and it was right for God to do this, there are real evil things, which come from us, and we who are involved are responsible for it. God created great things in the natural world which include what we generally call disasters, but they are evil to us who are living apart from God's will for us. Everything Yahweh has made is good. If we lived thoroughly conforming to God's will for us, we would not be in such occurances that we understand to be merely disasters. For example, earthquakes are good, with causing some good in the natural world though we wouldn't see that. But with living thoroughly according to God's will for us, we would observe God's direction for us not to live where there will be damage coming from such earthquake. But we, generally, are not so good at observing God's direction to us for where to live, most of us very willfully choose for ourselves where to live.

Compassion should still be shown to those who suffer in such occurances, God will show compassion to those who suffer, as Jesus showed, lives are changed through that, in which there is less willfulness apart from the will of Yahweh.

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light , and create darkness : I make peace, and create evil : I the LORD do all these [things].


I have not read though the whole thread but it seems to me that everyone is focused on the wrong word. Instead of focusing on evil we should be looking at the word create which in the Hebrew is bara.

Bara\create at its heart is a word of separation or division; it is used in the fashion of shaping things by cutting. We read how God created the heavens and the earth and if you look at the creation process it is shaped via separation/division.

God separates the day from the night, the waters from the waters, etc even with the creation of humankind we see God separated the woman out of the man.

King David said bara/create in me a clean heart.

Now we know that this is in relation to circumcision, the separation or cutting out of the foreskin.

So then that scripture should actually read like this.

I form the light, and cut down darkness: I make peace, and cut down evil: I the LORD do all these [things].

Light does indeed cut down darkness and peace does indeed cut down evil, for blessed are the peacemakers....

God is NOT the author of evil as the OP suggests for God is love and love thinketh no evil and love worketh no evil.

So if God does not work or even think evil how is it God created evil?

Anyway that is my two cents.

Micah888 said:

So then the question remains: Why is one Christian (at least here) so keen to attribute the creation of evil to God?

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I don't think that is the case; I think the OP is touching on a paradox.

On one hand, if we believe everything about the Most High God, He is in control of everything, knows everything and so on. That would make Him somehow involved with the conception of evil (i.e. knowledge.)

On the other hand, there is no evil found in the Most High God, and He doesn't directly use evil to tempt or break men.


It mostly becomes a linguistic and etymological issue, then, about whether the Most High God can be all of His attributes with respect to the alleged origins of evil.

(blind)

John tower said:

The most blasphemous false doctrine of men is the teaching that God did not create all things, and that God is not even in control of his own creation ! How do they arrive at this blasphemous false doctrine ? The bible says to trust in God, and not lean unto our own understanding : PROVERBS 3(5) : ” Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and lean not unto your own understanding , ” Why does the bible tell us not to lean unto our own understanding ? : 1 CORINTHIANS 13(12) : ” For now we see through a glass darkly , for NOW WE KNOW IN PART . ” This is why the bible tells us not to lean unto our own understanding : Because we presently have very limited understanding, and we will think that we see something wrong, WHEN THERE IS IN FACT NOTHING WRONG, WE JUST THINK THAT WE SEE SOMETHING WRONG , BECAUSE OF OUR LIMITED UNDERSTANDING . A perfect example of this is the teaching that evil could not possibly have a good purpose in God’s creation : So we say that God has nothing to do with it . Well for starters the Bible clearly states that GOD CREATED EVIL : ISAIAH 45(7) : ” I make peace AND CREATE EVIL , I THE LORD DO ALL THESE THINGS. ” Well the question of course arises : Why did God create evil ? If we read GENESIS 3(22) : We see that GOD HIMSELF SAYS : ” The man is become as one of us , to know good AND EVIL ! ” So ACCORDING TO GOD HIMSELF , EVIL DOES INDEED HAVE A GOOD PURPOSE : IT IS PART OF BECOMING AS A GOD ! But if we lean unto our own understanding , we don’t understand this, and we think that evil is only bad : So we then say that God did not create it , thus now SAYING THAT GOD DID NOT CREATE ALL THINGS : ” A SUPER SERIOUS BLASPHEMY .” We say that God does not want evil in his creation : Yet evil is still there : THUS IMPLYING THAT GOD IS NOT EVEN IN CONTROL OF HIS OWN CREATION : Because according to them all these things are there that God supposedly does not want : YET ANOTHER SUPER SERIOUS BLASPHEMY AGAINST GOD ! The truth of course is that GOD CREATED ALL THINGS , INCLUDING EVIL : AND THEY ALL WORK TOGETHER FOR GOOD in his great plan , and God is in absolute control, even if we don’t understand it yet ! Listen to what God says to us in ISAIAH 55(8&9) : ” 8 : ” For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways , ” 9 : ” For as the heavens are higher then the Earth , so are my ways higher then your ways , and my thoughts then your thoughts . ” Following are a few more examples of things that God uses to fulfill his purposes that if we lean unto our own limited understanding, we might think are bad , thus saying that what God does is bad ; 1 SAMUEL 16(14) : ” But the spirit of the Lord departed from Saul, and AN EVIL SPIRIT FROM THE LORD troubled him .” and 1 KINGS 22(23) : ” Now therefore behold : THE LORD HATH PUT A LYING SPIRIT in the mouth of all these thy prophets .” So remember PROVERBS 3(5) : ” Trust in the Lord with all thine heart , and lean not unto thine own understanding .” STOP BLASPHEMING EVERY TIME YOU SEE SOMETHING YOU DONT UNDERSTAND , AND SAYING THAT GOD DID NOT DO IT OR CREATE IT : YOU ARE ON VERY DANGEROUS GROUND ! PROVERBS 3(7) : ” BE NOT WISE IN THINE OWN EYES , FEAR THE LORD, DEPART FROM EVIL . ” : IT IS A GREAT EVIL TO BE WISE IN THINE OWN EYES AND JUDGE GOD !

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God did not create sinners in the beginning and then called his own creation "very good", but rather, through the knowledge of evil God brought into existence, he appointed certain angels to eventually choose to do evil, through which man then also became evil, to server a greater purpose unto man, that by the transgression and sin that lead man to become worthy of death, God may then demonstrate mercy and forgiveness and grant life unto those he chose to love, while rendering death with wrath and great power unto those he chose not to love.

John tower said:

He does not just allow things but he does all things : he most certainly does not need the help of others : Col 1 (17): He us before ALL THINGS and by him all things consist : Prov 16(4) : again he does not allow : implying he is not in total control : he does ALL : This is a subtle attack on the sovereignity of God : be careful : Prov 3(5-7)

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Why is it a subtle attack on God sovereignty?

God in His sovereignty created man and gave man dominion of this earth.
Jesus taught us to pray thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven.

So if Gods will is already being done on this earth that prayer is redundant and has no meaning.

God is sovereign and in that sovereignty he gave man the free will to make a choice.

As for God creating all things, people seem to miss that that phrase comes with the qualifier GOOD.

And God saw everything that He had made and it was GOOD.

Pneuma3 said:

Why is it a subtle attack on God sovereignty?

God in His sovereignty created man and gave man dominion of this earth.
Jesus taught us to pray thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven.

So if Gods will is already being done on this earth that prayer is redundant and has no meaning.

God is sovereign and in that sovereignty he gave man the free will to make a choice.

As for God creating all things, people seem to miss that that phrase comes with the qualifier GOOD.

And God saw everything that He had made and it was GOOD.

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To say "may your will be done", "may your kingdom come", and "may your name be set apart" are all ways to bless God, not be "redundant", no different than saying, "may you succeed in your endeavors", "I hope your plans succeed".

cwo said:

To say "may your will be done", "may your kingdom come", and "may your name be set apart" are all ways to bless God, not be "redundant", no different than saying, "may you succeed in your endeavors", "I hope your plans succeed".

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it still sets a contrast between Gods will in Heaven and Gods will in earth, which tells me Gods will is not yet being done in the earth and God will will not be done on earth until all the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of Christ.

John tower said:

He does not just allow things but he does all things : he most certainly does not need the help of others : Col 1 (17): He us before ALL THINGS and by him all things consist : Prov 16(4) : again he does not allow : implying he is not in total control : he does ALL : This is a subtle attack on the sovereignity of God : be careful : Prov 3(5-7)

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Couldn't disagree more.

God does not 'do all things' as you imply. And it takes nothing away from God to state that God CANNOT do that which would interfere with Him 'being' God.

He cannot lie. So he does not lie. Doesn't 'do' it. He cannot tempt someone to DO evil. He does not 'do' this. He abhors 'evil' so that means he doesn't 'do' or influence us to 'do' evil.

Some people seem to be confused when they read scripture. Scripture was not written TO darkness or for darkness to understand. When reading scripture it is important not to forget WHO it was written FOR.

God did indeed 'create ALL things' in one way or another. If you chose to look at it in a particular way, He IS ultimately responsible for 'all things'. But that doesn't mean that it is HIS desire that we do most of the things 'we do'. In fact, the Bible tells us that most of what we do does NOT please God.

And there is a huge difference between will and desire. I desire many things that I do not possess the will to accomplish. And many other things I have the will to alter or effect but do not possess the desire to do so.

When i see children doing things that I know aren't good for them, my desire would be to STOP them. But recognizing that they must learn many things themselves, I do not exercise my will in such a manner.

Is it really any different than God? His desire is that we all share our love with Him. But He does use His WILL to enforce any such thing. He lets us choose our own paths.

I do not believe that God physically created darkness. I believe that without something being created, darkness is the natural state of existence. In other words, without creation, existence is void and without form: darkness.

But from the standpoint of our existence, the creation of light brought into existence the KNOWLEDGE of darkness. Without light, how could darkness be recognized? So 'to us', God did indeed create darkness as well as light. For by the creation of light, darkness was then REVEALED to us.

Little different than stating that a combination of weather conditions 'create' the perfect storm. You know as well as I do that the conditions didn't literally 'create' anything. That's merely a means of describing something that was more or less 'made possible' rather than 'created'.

So when we are instructed that God is 'all powerful', that doesn't mean LITERALLY able to DO anything imaginable. For God cannot DO something that would cause Him to cease to BE God. And I think that rather than condemnation, pointing this out would bring a pat on the back instead. God enjoys us understanding things. That's why He made it possible for us to 'do' so.


Blessings,

MEC